Undead 07 Insane too hard?

[Psycho14]

i just played 07b with my friend
i want to tell you, out of all the maps so far (which we played almost all on insane) this is BY FAAAAR the hardest... It's not even fun on insane...
Enemies attack way too often... the damned footmen are nearly invulnerable to any range attack and they soak up even melee very nicely because of the armour.
Riflemen kill wyrms very fast, and can also soak up dmg because of armour
Between sorc slow and priest heal, i can barely kill anything (ofc those 2 are easy to kill)
Enemy attackers come way too often... We barely killed a wave and after like 1 min MAX another wave comes (after we killed a wave once, kelthuzad was reviving and halfway in rez next wave came).
First attack on the archmage was a complete failure... we killed i think a sorc only but not sure
The entrance in the castle is awfully small... all my abos were blocked but lol that's part of map so i guess it's ok...
My towers were useless...ranged units are too far to reach and footmen receive i think 7 dmg per tower hit... >.>
Also when we killed the first archmage a new player (blue) started attacking us? srsly? i mean that's kinda ilogical you just own one of their commanders and MORE UNITS COME/IT BECOMES HARDER? lol...
imo insane diff is way too hard

well the problem right now is that i'm very frustrated... the map was very annoying to play... me and my friend quit and decided to try the normal (hard) mode some other time >.>

 

[TheSpoon]

I'll split post this to a new thread, titled.
"Undead 07 Insane too hard?"

Just wondering if you played the last level on insane, because that was hard if not harder.
When I tried this one on insane, we beat the first archmage, and then got our asses cained by 2 waves attacking.
If I was to retry it, with better planning, we would've done better.
Using Frost Wyrms to take out a few towers on the walls, and then rushing their base with 3-4 frost wyrmns once the aura was down would've been a good idea.
The insane difficulty is meant to be "Insane" as in, very very hard, might need possible attempts, pros only.
Although true that it NEEDS to be possible.
If you tried using just aboms, well, theres no suprise you didn't get very far.

McQvaBlood did you complete the level on insane?

 

[tulee]

I'll split post this to a new thread, titled.
"Undead 07 Insane too hard?"

Just wondering if you played the last level on insane, because that was hard if not harder.
When I tried this one on insane, we beat the first archmage, and then got our asses cained by 2 waves attacking.
If I was to retry it, with better planning, we would've done better.
Using Frost Wyrms to take out a few towers on the walls, and then rushing their base with 3-4 frost wyrmns once the aura was down would've been a good idea.
The insane difficulty is meant to be "Insane" as in, very very hard, might need possible attempts, pros only.
Although true that it NEEDS to be possible.
If you tried using just aboms, well, theres no suprise you didn't get very far.

McQvaBlood did you complete the level on insane?

My friend and I beat it.

Priests must be targeted and frost worms must be frenzied.
Lich MUST be built as the tank and arthas must have all intel items. Must get the pipe of insight which is a free brilliance aura. Meat wagons must be made so you can pick up specific corpses ( knights / mortar ) if you want to attack / siege a base.
Lich MUST tank all the damage and frost shield MUST be lvl 6. ( arthas can be alternate tank )
Necros MUST be upgrades asap for the frenzy as mentioned and for best mana to raise undead, which gives a free sacrifice for lich mana and free hp for arthas's self heal.
Do NOT let the rock golems die; you can kill the second arch mage by spamming the stun spell and if you move them near the mana fountain the incoming army won't attack them, and with natural spell immune the aura won't damage them.
Lich must NOT use his ult on front line enemy units because it deals damage to your own units and allies
Learn to MICRO

 

[McQvaBlood]

Yep, I did.
I have to say, this was not even as hard as Blackrock & Roll.
Though we had to retry once, because of... certain failures at micromanagement.

Here are a few tips:
- Items: Any mana regeneration should be given to Arthas, as he is your only heal. Kel'thuzad should have some Rings of Protection and a Periapt of Health. (When we played this, he had more EHP than Arthas.)
- Abilities: A level 3 Death Coil is advised, along with a level 2 or level 3 Death Pact. When sorrunded, use your ultimate to keep yourself alive. (By sacrificing the summons.)
- Do not attempt to kill the Archmage right away. You do not have the necessary troops and will likely fail. Rushing in with Arthas and Kel'thuzad (This was a viable strategy in the original campaign.) is an absolutely horrible idea.
- Once you start the map, use your two Meat Wagons to destroy the towers and then pull them back. You will need them later, but otherwise the AI will likely target them and destroy them.
- After training your first two Acolytes, (You have three-three in both your mines.) simply unsummon either player's Halls of the Dead. Other than training Acolytes, you do not need the Halls of the Dead. (If they pushed into your base so deep that you need the Halls of the Dead to defend, you have likely lost anyways.) There are also a few more structures to unsummon, such as a Spirit Tower near Arthas' Gold Mine. (Beats me to it why they'd build it there.) As well as the Sacrifical Pit once you've built the Boneyard. (As Shades cannot be used to scout the shielded areas.)
- After teching to Black Citadel, do not rush to Frost Wyrms, but rather, keep both players training a few Abominations. Once you feel that the attacks are now not that hard to beat, you can begin to spare resources for a later transition to Frost Wyrms.
- Build a Temple of the Damned and tech to Banshee Masters and capture Priests. Two 400 mana priests will take some pressure off Arthas' mana pool and let you cast Death Coil more freely. Also, Priests have Dispel Magic, which can be useful against Polymorph. Inner Fire gives your Frost Wyrms 5 extra armor. Along with Frost Shield, you can give them a huge damage block.
- Do not let the shield scare you, it does not kill you that fast. You could always stop and kill anyone attempting to block your way. For the second and third Archmagi, you even have a Fountain of Health. (Which heals more quickly than how the shield degenerates.)
- There is an Archmage to the left of your base. If you're not both Level 8, simply overpower that lonely Archmage with all your troops. A level 10 Archmage grants you a nice amount of experience.

EDIT:
Wow, reading tulee's post, (I replied to TheSpoon without reading yours first.) we've done the map so differently.

 

[tulee]

Yea, pretty differently. It is always nice though to see someone else's perspective on how to solve a problem =p.

I don't know why bother with banshees though =p, my friend and I rank it 2nd worst undead unit, only slightly above acolyte ( yes ghoul is ranked above for us haha )

I can't wait to see your strategy for the next mission lol.
Also blood did you find the archmage directly west of your starting base, on the outskirts of dalaran? My friend and I so nearly finished the mission without killing him, just wondered if you found it too =p

 

[McQvaBlood]

- There is an Archmage to the left of your base. If you're not both Level 8, simply overpower that lonely Archmage with all your troops. A level 10 Archmage grants you a nice amount of experience.

Yes, we did.

Underestimating Banshees can be a big mistake. Taking control over some powerful troops can be useful. For example this map it was very important to have Dispel Magic because otherwise you'd just get your ass kicked by Polymorph. (To our dismay, Anti-magic Shell did nothing against an already Polymorphed unit. That's why we got Banshees first, because we though it'd work, but then we figured we can still take control of Priests.)
The other two spells were also very useful, Inner Fire adds 10% damage and 5 armor and Heal is ... well, Heal.

 

[TheSpoon]

Just wondering, did any of the Archmages use any new spells? : o

 

[McQvaBlood]

Well, ehm, yes, though they were not really that powerful.
I noticed a Polymorph being cast by them and also a strange ability that rained sheeps on some of our units, but that wasn't very damaging either.
Oh, also that Mana Burn only burnt 100 mana. That's not very damaging.

 

[TheSpoon]

I may improve that then!

Closing this thread now.
The chapter has been deemed possible, despite being very hard. (Like its meant to be!)