Trinity RPG

[Moderator]

12:43, 30th Mar 2014
Orcnet: map is in Beta stage, please vm/pm me once its completely done.

 

[DestinyEX]

Was really looking forward to this...

But for player 1 {Red} from the start you have ownership of 1 of the Rangers who is permanent invulnerable and well ruins the entire game. Since it's possible to just solo it with her alone.

Only played for like 10 minutes or so and gave up because that ruined the map for me.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

Hello, I've tested your map

• Use "Fixed player settings" to prevent players from choosing "forces of darkness" force
• Your terrain is very sparse. At least cover map edges with boundary or trees
• Many tooltips don't have hotkeys, and some that do have hotkeys don't work. Make tooltips a big priority as they're often one of the first things your players will look at
• Use breath of Fire instead of Shockwave as your base abilities for line damage. They don't cause terrain deformation and hence produce significantly less lag.
• Don't use 'active' icons for passive abilities
• Environmental props which are not meant to be destroyed should be doodads, not destructables
• In the home base camp there was no indiciation that camp fires heal you passively. You should somehow inform players of this.
• Monsters very close to home base are quite tough. I don't know if this was intended but I died at level 1.
• Everything feels very unimmersive. After playing for 10 minutes I haven't discovered any quests or interacted with anything. All I've done is wander and kill things.
• As far as I can tell, creeps don't have a way of respawning. I think that will be a problem.
• Your map is perfectly playable for 1 player. You should list the players as "1-3" instead of "3"

Overall I think your map has potential, but it's going to take a lot of work. I think you should focus on improving gameplay and attention to detail rather than just adding as many heroes as possible.

If you improve all of the things I noted, I'll take another look.

 

[Constantine]

Fixed version uploaded.

 

[DemonFace]

Pretty good map! But the problem is that in some places there are too many monsters and leveling up is pretty slow too.

 

[Constantine]

As the name suggests, its really meant to be a three player game! while it can be done with one, it's a challenge.

 

[Constantine]

Everything is pretty much fixed, minus the icons part, but that's a design choice. Could someone please take a look at this and see if its good to go?

 

[Cokemonkey11]

Hi, I've tested your map again. To be quite frank, you've improved very little and it remains largely the same. Many of your previous issues are largely unresolved and I often wondered while testing the map if you've tested it yourself, because most of the issues are pretty obvious.

• your map is called trio RPG and has the recommended players as 1-3. but in the game lobby there are four slots.
• your creeps have very poorly chosen experience and gold bounties. satyr trickster and zombies give the same amount of gold and experience...
• you still have bare edges at the edge of your map
• you still have not improved your ability tooltips. Huge number of misspelled words, poor grammar, missing hotkeys, abilities with hotkeys that don't match the "global" QWER system
• your respawned creeps don't drop items
• in your quests menu you say that "if player one is playing alone, they receive the bravery buff (+33% armor)" - but I played in slot 4, so didn't receive the bonus. Maybe make this work for any solo player, or better yet - make it an option when someone is playing solo.
• my hero (mountain king) had a very boring level 6 ability - basically just avatar from wc3. Maybe make a custom ultimate ability - I think a "leap" like ability would be fun with him. Maybe something like:
  • Ferocious Leap (R): Leaps up to 400 units in the target direction, fearing enemy units near his landing position. If the hero kills a unit under the affects of fear, the cooldown on ferocious leap resets. Fear duration improves with ability level.
• when i died, a timer dialog popped up but failed to display a number for my respawn.
• after about an hour of game time my FPS dropped from 60 to a number that oscillated between 51 and 57, leading me to believe you have some kind of leak. I suspect that after about 3 hours of game time it would start to properly lag.
• your hero selection area could look better. The units aren't lined up or facing the same direction. You also spawn a shade for yellow player (why?)
• I literally played for a whole hour without any dialog or story

Improving all of these things is essentially the bare minimum. You need to spend a huge amount (months) of work on this before it will be exciting and worth-while to play.

I'm sorry if this review is harsh - you do have the start to a fun game. But that's all you have - a start.

Good luck.

 

[Constantine]

Its not too harsh at all! Thanks for the advice. I've never made a map before so I'm just not used to striving for such a complete level of polish. I want to make this map the best I possibly can, even if it takes a lot of time.

 

[Xonok]

I tried the map alone as mountain king. It was surprisingly fun, even though you used usual (although enhanced) abilities.

Some things I can bring out:
1. This hero's abilities are completely based on strength. It makes the gameplay a bit one-sided, because there really are no choices about stats. Just max str and your abilities are godly.
I recommend making the damage effects based on agility instead.
2. Abilities are much more powerful than attack damage. This effectively turns the hero into a melee mage, meaning that the second stat for this hero is mana.
3. Health and armor matter very little, because you can choose to have str * 100 healing from storm bolt. This is just so high and spammable that once again, mana is much more powerful than anything that could be had in it's stead. Also, due to the high healing rate, it makes the other variation of storm bolt fairly pointless unless you already have far too much healing(which would be a problem anyway).
4. Changing between stances has no cooldown, which means that people can just use the strongest side of both stances at all times. There is no choice to be made, because both sides are given for granted.

Overall, the abilities are incredibly powerful, but it seems that even too much. This is a melee mage, not a fighter (in its current form).

I recommend reducing the mana cost on abilities to reduce the dependance on mana. If you do this, then also tone down their power. That way the abilities are not too powerful and it also gives other options than to focus on insane amounts of mana.

 

[Constantine]

Thanks for the tips!
1. What if I make them scale off intellect so you can either build him as a tanky melee or a combat mage?
2. I've nerfed the mana costs and scaled things back accordingly
3. Woop! it was meant to be a 10x Strength (50str -> 500 heal). That was a bug!
4. Stance's not having cooldowns I thought would encourage more fast paced play, i.e. if youre low and need a heal, you should be rewarded for swapping weapons before bolting, then swapping back to maximize dps... You think I should switch it?

Thank you so much for the testing! I'd love any feedback on the other heroes if you're so inclined. Though bear in mind when doing so, its supposed to be a team game, so some heroes are less equipped to fly solo.

 

[Xonok]

Thanks for the tips!
1. What if I make them scale off intellect so you can either build him as a tanky melee or a combat mage?
2. I've nerfed the mana costs and scaled things back accordingly
3. Woop! it was meant to be a 10x Strength (50str -> 500 heal). That was a bug!
4. Stance's not having cooldowns I thought would encourage more fast paced play, i.e. if youre low and need a heal, you should be rewarded for swapping weapons before bolting, then swapping back to maximize dps... You think I should switch it?

Thank you so much for the testing! I'd love any feedback on the other heroes if you're so inclined. Though bear in mind when doing so, its supposed to be a team game, so some heroes are less equipped to fly solo.

1. Perhaps the best choice would be having uses for all stats. Example: Str for tanking, agility for damage, int for healing.
4. Well, it does encourage swapping between them, but at the moment it does so too much. What the abilities do is drastically different depending on stance and thus, making them so easy to change also makes it too easy to drastically change the hero.
A small cooldown would probably do. Something around the time that it takes for thunder clap to be back up. This way the player can quickly swap between stances, but not too quickly.

 

[IamFootman061]

Gonna give a review after testing it But then, it looks good.

 

[IamFootman061]

This is my review.

Trio RPG Review
Review by IamFootman061

Good Things:

Hotkeys. They are arrange perfectly for me.
Tips. I think the tips is good. It makes the game easier

Fair Things:

Abilities. The abilities I think is fair enough. Some of them just need some fix like the poison arrow, when I use to to my enemy, It has some frost effect on it's body.
Gameplay. The gameplay is fair too. But sometimes, I don't know what my quest is all about.

Bad Things:

Terrain. The terrain was too bad for me. It's whole flat. It doesn't look good actually.
Introduction. I don't like it's introduction. Maybe you can put a cinematic in the first scene before or after picking the player. And if you don't like cinematics, maybe put a game text after picking player to make them know what they will do.
Design. I think the preview and the Loading screen doesn't look good. Maybe put a Preview and a Custom Loading screen.

Suggestions:

Put an introduction to make the players know what will they do.
Put a preview and custom loading screen to attract the players to play your game.
Make some efforts and import some models to improve your terrain. Also make the terrain have some height.

 

[Constantine]

@ Xonok, You're absolutely right! Thank you so much for the insight. If you wanted to look at other heroes I'd be very grateful.

@IamFootman I'm glad you like the hotkey style, it just makes sense. I'll beef up the terrain and work on a custom loading screen.

I completely agree with the intro. I think I'll make a cinematic. It should help give the player's some story and direction.

Thanks a bunch for all the advice, keep it coming

 

[Xonok]

This time I supposedly tested a tank character.

My notes:

"Xonokhad died" - This death message and some others are missing a space between name and the rest of the text.

Ward of evenglade - Most abilities are ranged and W takes lots of mana. Sounds like another str mage.
Also, tanking wasn't actually viable. Only 1 ability of those that I tried actually requires being close and taking hits. The others were all ranged and thus, it was better to stay far.
Furthermore, this hero also has the same thing that abilities are far more effective than normal attacks, making it a good idea to avoid playing the tank.

 

[Constantine]

Thanks for the heads up about the text. I know there are a lot of typos -- they will be fixed but are a low priority.

Tanking is viable. This game is meant to be played with more than one player.
A Tank's job is to reduce the damage being dealt to the rest of the part, often by soaking it up themselves with greater efficiency. The Ward does this.
- Wrath (the core ability of the character) is one of the shortest "ranged" abilities in the game and serves to grab stray agro.
- Warcry did have a slightly too high mana cost, but its small range and % damage reduction is the essence of tanking.
- Shield wall is a passive chance to block.
- Stormfront, most efficiently cast on the self also requires close range 'tank' play.

From your review it sounds as if the only skills you tried were glaive + wrath.
Naturally the abilities are more powerful than auto attacks, otherwise why have them.
The tank isn't about damaging abilities. Or damaging attacks. The tank is about effectively and efficiently protecting the party and taking the hits. I believe the Ward's skill set does this. If you feel it does not, I'm open to suggestions.

I'm sorry If my reply is harsh, but I take a certain pride in my hero design and I believe your assessment to err. Again if, given my analysis you still disagree and would like to help, I'm always open to suggestions and would very much appreciate future testing. (Be sure to use the most current version of the map as I am constantly fixings and balancing things)

 

[Xonok]

Thanks for the heads up about the text. I know there are a lot of typos -- they will be fixed but are a low priority.

Tanking is viable. This game is meant to be played with more than one player.
A Tank's job is to reduce the damage being dealt to the rest of the part, often by soaking it up themselves with greater efficiency. The Ward does this.
- Wrath (the core ability of the character) is one of the shortest "ranged" abilities in the game and serves to grab stray agro.
- Warcry did have a slightly too high mana cost, but its small range and % damage reduction is the essence of tanking.
- Shield wall is a passive chance to block.
- Stormfront, most efficiently cast on the self also requires close range 'tank' play.

From your review it sounds as if the only skills you tried were glaive + wrath.
Naturally the abilities are more powerful than auto attacks, otherwise why have them.
The tank isn't about damaging abilities. Or damaging attacks. The tank is about effectively and efficiently protecting the party and taking the hits. I believe the Ward's skill set does this. If you feel it does not, I'm open to suggestions.

I'm sorry If my reply is harsh, but I take a certain pride in my hero design and I believe your assessment to err. Again if, given my analysis you still disagree and would like to help, I'm always open to suggestions and would very much appreciate future testing. (Be sure to use the most current version of the map as I am constantly fixings and balancing things)

Well, I just don't see much of a point in tanking if you can stay afar. With groups it might even work. In this regard, the mountain king hero was very good, because he can somewhat sustain himself (although last time he relied too much on mana, but I guess you've fixed it)

Perhaps it can be considered a feature - Different playstyles when playing solo or in groups.

EDIT(next notes):
"-brave" is reusable. Probably not intended to be.

Spirit of air is an excellent damager. Although his Q would do well if it didn't have to be spammed (gets a bit tedious).

Portals work less each time you use them, meaning that on the first portals it was easy to go through, but eventually I had to walk back and forth for quite a lot of times.

 

[Constantine]

Definitely not intended! I'll fix that asap.
I noticed much the same while testing him. I'll double the scaling and give it a small cd.
I'll have a look at the portals and see whats going on.

I can't thank you enough for all the testing, hope you're having fun

 

[IamFootman061]

You updated your map and you should put now the changelog
Anyways, (+rep)

 

[Constantine]

Thanks for the rep! I just did a bunch of major updates, including patching up a lot of the leaks. Change-log in the works

 

[Deleted member 219079]

My map is shit. Please take it down.

Dat description! :O Best I've seen yet! +rep

 

[Xonok]

Dat description! :O Best I've seen yet! +rep

Just needs a bit more work. The idea is good.

 

[Constantine]

Extensive updates have been undertaken. Have a look if you'd like. I've just begun to add quests to the first zone.

Complete UI overhaul.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

Hi,

I've tested the latest version of your map. You have some improvements, but as usual I have some comments:

• You've fixed the bare edges on your map, but I noticed at least one example of a GATE (destructable) being used to block these edges. Use a gate doodad (untargetable) if you want to keep this visual effect - right now I can destroy the gate and see the void again.
• You need to go through ability tooltips and improve imperfections. You're missing linebreaks, using over-saturated colors, failing to include hotkeys (and in those cases, "global" hotkeys don't work; I tested with battle master)
• Your creeps seem to have stopped respawning
• You added a cinematic but there is still no NPC interaction.
• Suggestion: Add an effect around units who I can interact with (shops?) and give the locust ability to units I cannot interact with (Why is there a "Medivh" standing by the campfire. He doesn't talk, clicking him is useless, he doesn't move, etc)
• Suggestion: Use map naming scheme which includes both the player number and the version number like: (3)TrinityRPG052.w3x - maps are ordered in the map list by player number so the (3) prefix will order your maps folder as well; the version number will prevent battle.net from butchering your filename while overwriting maps.
• Suggestion: Make scroll of town portals purchasable items, and give them some recommendation as a starting item
• Suggestion: Add some intermediate level items, and balance the basic ones. Since I can't kill (or even find) the first boss in an hour, the most efficient items for me to buy were 4 Kite Shields
• I found an item called corrupted heart which doesn't seem to do anything.

Overall good progress but still far from good. Also I really hate the UI you imported.

 

[Constantine]

Thanks again!
That one gate is the only example, making it a doodad.
Yeah I just learned about line breaks. My mind was blown. What are over saturated colors and why are they a problem? That was an error with the battlemaster, his "w" was also an "e" I know there are bugs with the hotkeys, but as I've said previously, its a lower priority than say the quest system.
The NPC interaction is through the quest system (which as I've stated) has just been started, all the same, there should be three or so quests in the first zone with interaction.
Scrolls of town portal are purchasable! But I suppose you missed the shop because of lack of indicators. "medivh" and other clickable townsfolk are part of the quests that have yet to be implemented. Hes a place holder at the moment.
Again, its a party based game, so item efficiency really changes if some one is designate to take the hits and takes them well.
Hearts part of a quest; ill make em only drop after quest is started.

Sorry you hate the UI. I liked it.

 

[Radicool]

• 
  This is a biggie. Some heroes are just boring, particularly the some supports. Some abilities are uninteresting and close to default Warcraft 3 abilities. The descriptions are dull looking and don't describe the abilities well enough.
  
  I recommend cutting out nearly ALL heroes. Make the same heroes off Diablo 2 with similar skills. If you had 6-8 really good heroes with so much work put into them, people would have so much more fun playing a 4 hour game with them, than some boring hero. Think about it. Diablo 2 only had 5 heroes. 7 in the expansion. Why do you need 40? It's just too hard to make 40 heroes. Blizzard knew it. You need characters which are very different from one another and all strong in their own way.
  
  Imagine shooting molten boulders with a druid? Having bears and wolves following you. Skeletons protecting the necromancer and shooting teeth and amplify damage? These custom skills would be so much fun to use, but difficult to make and time consuming. That's why you should just make 6 or so heroes. Probably difficult making all the skills in Diablo 2, so just include 6-10 of the best and popular ones.
  
  Think about it. You've probably spent lots of time into you 40 or so heroes so you maybe reluctant to remove them, but I think 6 really well developed heroes would be more interesting. Btw I didn't play all your heroes, so maybe some of them are really cool. If so, keep them, but I'd still remove lots of your heroes and work on making less but better heroes.

• 
  Compress the files in your map. All files but models can be compressed. Also, see if you can delete some of those nasty 400-500 KB models and replace them with other ones. All your skins and interface can be compressed. I think you can save 3-4 MB in your map. Imagine what else you could do with 3-4 MB?

• 
  Add some Diablo 2 music. The nostalgia would be awesome! If I heard this, I'd melt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTjVqEnCvYo
  
  TBH I'm sick of hearing Warcraft 3 music in games. It doesn't suit so many maps and I've heard it way too many times. Music is such a powerful way to make atmosphere. If you added some of Diablo 2 music, your map would feel a little scarier and darker. If you didn't want that, you could only pick the ones that arn't as dark like the one I linked. And this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2evIg-aYw8
  
  But stay away from Warcraft 3 music. Its just frustrating to hear now. Diablo music would be SO much more fitting for this game.

• 
  You should add some sound effects. Maybe when you enter a bosses room, have them say something intimidating. Kind of like How Diablo says "Not Even Death can Save you from Me!" Don't go overboard with quotes otherwise it'll sound lame.

• 
  You could also cut out some boss fights. You have lots of bosses but some of the are very uninteresting. This is because the more you have, the repetitive it becomes. And like heroes, making so many good boss fights is time consuming and you'll run out of ideas. Most of the bosses just run at you and auto attack with maybe a splash attack. Throw in a carrior swarm here and there. Boring? Its difficult to setup 20 awesome boss fights. So just scrap the idea of having so many, and only make a few. Minibosses shouldn't be so tough as to be confused with a big boss either.
  
  Please read this tutorial: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/general-mapping-tutorials-278/creating-bossfight-94684/
  
  To give you an idea forget the text and just watch the videos on the tutorial. Level 1 Boss Fight, Level 2 Boss Fight and Level 3 Boss Fight. They will show you what you are doing, and what you can do to make it interesting.

• 
  I doubt you want to lock the camera to your hero, but its something you could consider if you really want a Diablo 2 feel. If your thinking about it, ask others. Some people find locked cameras annoying. I'm a little undecided myself for which I'd prefer.

• 
  You could add some vision at camps to make it feel a little more warming, less lonely and easier to locate shops. Giving vision of a square region may look strange (it may look strange. you can experiment), so maybe you could give players shared vision of the campfire, important buildings, the guards and the villagers who are selling items. Just a thought.

I've just mentioned a few points which theoretically could take you so many hours of work. You can ask people to help you with models, hero ideas, triggering, etc. Make requests to take some workload off yourself if you have people willing to help.

And sorry if you don't want to make your map too focused on Diablo 2, I just assumed so with your D2 map picture, D2 loading screen and the terrain showing many similarities. I'll let you decide if it's a diablo 2 map or not. Good luck with it.

 

[Constantine]

Much thanks for such detailed advice! It is all very helpful and I like just about everything you said. I've tabled this map for a while, but when I get back to it, I'll surely implement these suggestions!

 

[muzzel]

You should add some screenshots to this presentation. I personally only try out maps with promising looking screenshots and gameplay descriptions.

 

[Orcnet]

Hello there, if you read the map submission rules. I'd say uploading a beta is not allowed. Should be atleast on its complete stage of upload.

I'd hid this first somewhere and if you could finish the map please vm/pm me so I can start the moderation myself.