Third Person Shooter - TEST(Map)

Level 8
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Third Person Shooter - TEST(Map Inside)

Hey, I basically created a prototype of a third person shooting system idea I have had recently and I am in need of some input from testing it. The map itself is very basic and feel free to look at the code if interested but since its a prototype concept, its pretty sloppy.

For the most part, I am looking for some input in regard to how easy or difficult it is to use the auto aim feature and how smooth or jagged the camera feels to you. I realize the hot keys are pretty much all over the place temporarily, so my apologies if it confuses any of you. Just run around the map and shoot at the green guys with and without the auto target ability, that is about all there is to do for this test.


Click Here to download, or check the attachment below.

attachment.php


-Need To Knows-
-----------------
-Use arrow keys to move forward, backward, and strafe left and right.

-Tap any of the WASD keys to rotate your camera in that direction. Multiple keys may be pressed. You will be frequently tapping these keys to look around. The faster you tap the keys the more you will rotate so if you want to turn around, tap the keys faster as it will build up momentum.

-Press F to fire weapon, R to reload(unlimited ammo in prototype), Q to auto target, and C to zoom in and out with a scope.

-To use the auto target correctly, simply press Q when your facing the general direction of the enemy target. Once targeted, your camera will follow the target and you may move around with arrow keys while targeting, as well as use your WASD keys to aim to the left, right, up, and down of the target being locked on to. Simply press Q again to unlock from the target.

-If you have low framerate, go to gameplay settings and uncheck Always show health bars, as for this game they are not used and will improve your framerate a bit.

-Things I Already Know-
-----------------------
-I realize using WASD to rotate, and arrow keys to move is confusing at first, but there is no alternative. However, any suggestions in regard to improving the friendliness of tapping the WASD keys is welcome.

-Using the mouse instead of WASD keys is not possible at this time. I will be using no third party programs. Nor is making the camera rotate while holding down any of the WASD keys as the arrow keys would, <acronym title="Warcraft 3"><acronym title="Warcraft 3"><acronym title="Warcraft 3"><acronym title="Warcraft 3">Wc3</acronym></acronym></acronym></acronym> does not support it at this time.


If you have any questions, feel free to ask them.

Thanks
 

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Level 3
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Oct 14, 2007
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66
this is the best shooting map in wc3
actually I hate shooting map in wc3 but this map is different.
the control and camera really smooth and nice, not like any other 'keyboard control' map
the auto target is really good.
nice terrain and cool item description
there is a minor typo error (reload) and auto target sometimes doesn't work
the hotkey is fine

I give 4/5 rating.
 
Level 8
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Nov 29, 2008
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462
looks cool :D wanna test it instantly
Edit: I tested it and it was fun the only bad thing was there were no real enemys ;-)
The other thing is there were some thing i didn´t understand but hey its great fun (hope will come for mulitplayer)
5/5!
 
Level 8
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thanks for the feedback both of you, much appreciated. i am happy to hear the camera control is easier to use, although i will still attempt to improve it further. i hope eventually it will be playable online without lag or atleast each player will be able to kill other players even if there is some delay since i have now introduced an auto target feature. thats not to say however, a player would have to use the auto target always, there will surely be advantages and disadvantages of using the auto target and aiming yourself completely.

the auto targeting is not quite finished yet so it still needs alot of tweaking. max_dan, you commented that it didnt work sometimes. this might be because i currently have a smaller detection for who to auto lock so you wont accidently lock on to someone on the other side of you and target the wrong person so i will look into increasing that.

nurga, what exactly didnt you understand while testing the map, i can clarify them for you, as it might be confusing to other people too so it might be good to know.

still always looking for more feedback from all users

thanks
 
Level 8
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in the inventory of the player where weapons and ammo, whats about that? you´ve got very much ammo(food) to shoot away but i want to know whats planned with this weapons :) what i like too, is that you can shot fast. not as slow as in the sharpshooter online fps game
 
Level 8
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ah right, those are just test items from another map i started making this in and i just forgot to remove them from the inventory. eventually, ill add in more guns though for this map and they will use the ammo item like in my other map. it will be simple though. you have the weapon on slot 1, the ammo remaining in slot 2, and when you reload some of the ammo goes into the gun and ur ammo stack gets a bit smaller. it wont really be something you would have to really look at other than to see if you have no ammo left. the lumber, gold, and food will probably be health, armor, and ammo once i finish the prototype for the auto targeting and camera system.

i will probably have a few different guns like a single shot rifle, a gnomish semi auto rifle, a sniper rifle, and a shotgun. its all about what kind of guns would fit the <acronym title="Warcraft 3">wc3</acronym> theme so its pretty small amount.

To airandius: It is 3d gameplay, it is simply a third person view. the picture on the OP is how it looks in game.
 
Level 8
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Ok.
I know this system from the Sharpshooter Online Wc3 Mod, in this, health is gold, greanades are wood and food...yeah its ammo
 
Level 8
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:) it will probably change once the main mechanics of this prototype map are finished. i do NOT plan to follow the same way sharpshooter online went. i plan to give players a different kind of experience when playing that wasnt in my other map. assuming i design a well enough level layout, it will be more action oriented and faster paced with actual objectives and such rather than just a deathmatch. the more feedback i get for this prototype map in thread, the faster i can finish the core of this and work on the actual map and get it out and running soon.
 
Level 8
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May 7, 2007
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For the proto-type version, I give this a 5/5. When/if this is multiplayer, this will be one of the BIGGEST hits (in my opinion) in warcraft 3, I could even see this being as big of a hit as the Diablo 3 <acronym title="Warcraft 3">Wc3</acronym> mod. (Yes, I know, this map and diablo3 are way different.)

Once you're done with this, make a modded version with Counter-Strike-like stuff, that'd be awesome :D
 
Level 3
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you should make some game modes to make the game more interesting, not standard game mode like FFA or CTF.
maybe you can make sniping mode, where player compete with others ti kill as many monsters with scope ability or grenade mode, where two teams in two bases kill each other with grenades without leaving their bases
 
Level 15
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Dec 12, 2006
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Tricky, you are THE master of all Warcraft III shooters. You have brought amazingly fluid 3rd person action gameplay to an RTS game. That's incredible. I mean seriously... it just works SO well! All it takes is a little getting used to, then BAM! If you don't have any shooters, then this will make a pretty damn good replacement. Well done, Tricky! Well done.

My one and only suggestion is this: perhaps a "walking" sound? You know, like whenever you walk, the game plays a sound of someone walking in your immediate area?

Edit: Oh, and one more suggestion: is there a possibility of there being fully-automatic weapons as well?
 
Level 5
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May 27, 2007
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Playability:
The game uses a somewhat difficult way to aim cause it both focusses on the arrows as WASD-buttons. It feels very unnatural and it seems in the start like it is almost impossible to make kills cause most of the time you're just strumbling around trying to not end up at the end of a cliff. However, it seems that after some time the combination of these 2 different controll systems start to get more fluent and it is more easy to get kills. It reminded me slightly of the difference between pc gaming with a keyboard to video gaming with a controller. Therefore I see, unthough the toughness level is remarkable, great potential in this way of shooting in warcraft 3 shooters.

Environment:
The environment is very nicely done and though you use little detail in your terrain, it feels natural and finally I get the feeling I'm actually in a forest. However you should seriously do something about those cliffs, cause the last thing you want is to focus on them when you are totally focussed on the controll system and actually aiming right.

Bonusses:
I like it that you added the classic "headshot" and I've got no idea what other bonusses you added in the kill bonus section, but I like it :) it has a potential! Apart from that you gotta love the classic description of all the weapons :p

Overal I give you a 4/5. The game is unique, it will take people hours, if not days to finally get used to the controlls and play natural with it, and thus you did a great job making the game have a good replay and gameplay! However, I'm not entirely sure if people will take days or hours to learn this game (on Bnet?! multiplayer possibility?) so maybe the difficulty of the system will be it's undoing.

The game will florish the best on Bnet, since killing NPC's is not the most satisfying, so I'm not sure in how far a multiplayer version will be made or that this already has the possibility to be, but I like it ;-) Good luck, 4/5 and + rep

Just a small tip, remember to not give this game too many options yet, since it will make the game chaotic and even harder to learn, scaring most people off. I'd say the best guideline for multiplayer map making to get a big public is to make things easy to learn but hard to master. That mostly will lure alot of people and give them a reason to get better while they dont struggle on the basics too much.
 
Level 8
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Thank you all who have given feedback, especially Syntic for his very informative post. They have been very helpful thus far with further working on the map. I hope to have a second version out within the next few days that will be intended for online capabilities. I have no doubt it will work, but the playability will be what is what will be observed.

I have improved quite a few things over the first prototype. For starters, the camera sensitivity has been appropriately increased to accommodate the slowness previously mentioned. The motion sensitivity has been amplified slightly as well, meaning you wont have to spam a directional WASD key as fast to turn around faster and etc. As personal preference, I can say I am comfortable with the camera for the most part.

Another more notable change is the movement has been enhanced. What this means is less sliding and more actual walking. Your character will now walk accordingly to the direction they are moving be that strafing to the left or right, or walking forward while also moving left. Even moving backward now looks correct. However, sliding still occurs when shooting due to a lack of shoot while walking animation that can only be fixed with an experienced modeler capable of making the animation. That will have to wait though as isnt really that big of a deal at the moment.

Also, the auto lock has been changed around quite a bit. It still retains its main mechanics meaning you still press a button to target, and again to stop as well as if your too far away or too close it will turn off automatically. Because this feature is intended to help improve playability for anyone who may have bad delay online, I have kept the auto lock fairly simple as it is in the current prototype. You still simply have to press a WASD key or a combination of WASD keys to aim for a specific part of the locked target as well as to the left and right of the target if they were walking. The graphics of the auto lock as been completely changed as well and locks on to a specific section of the target rather than a large circle target around the whole player.

A playable test version of this will be ready as soon as I have finished the remaining gameplay elements required to be playable online such as respawning, choosing classes, and a more simplified terrain rather than mass trees. If all goes well, you should expect a testable version in the next few days.

Thanks
 
Level 8
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lol, thanks... i had pretty much all week to work on the map most of the day so im gonna atleast get a playable test map out before monday i hope since i wont have as much time after this week to work on it.

again, it wont be the COMPLETE map, just the basic elements of it. it would be impossible for me to design the terrain i want, the class abilities each player would have, and the all-in-one game mode im doing, and all the fancy stuff like choosing classes from a menu instead of the normal tavern like way. mainly just gotta make sure this is gonna even be playable online before continuing to the stuff i just mentioned. ^_^
 
Level 15
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Hey Tricky, I know this is a bold question, but how would you think this would work? A cover system, similar to Gears of War that is context-sensitive. Since even though this IS a TPS (and mildly fast-paced), it would help for those players that get lag... I think. Regardless, it would be a unique thing to try after completing the rest of the map's basic functions.
 
Level 2
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I noticed i could move forward and rotate Left but not right, then i had to stand still

but otherwise its awesome :D the headshot sound made me laugh
 
Level 8
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IMPRESSIVE TECH DEMO! Unbelievable! However, you need to make stuff such as an auto jump when someone gets to a cliff or something. Excellent!

lol thanks. i could consider having an auto jump that happens if you run off a cliff as it could create some malarious effects in some situations like suiciding to a long fall but for the most part i have considered a jumping mechanism to not be needed for now since there really isnt going to be stuff to climb or jump over and also because i want to keep the amount of stuff on your interface as limited and uncomplicated as possible.

Hey Tricky, I know this is a bold question, but how would you think this would work? A cover system, similar to Gears of War that is context-sensitive. Since even though this IS a TPS (and mildly fast-paced), it would help for those players that get lag... I think. Regardless, it would be a unique thing to try after completing the rest of the map's basic functions.
haha, i have thought about making a cover system of some sort before but since I have never played GoW really, I am not sure how I would make it work. I tried making dynamic cover before using the current projectile system in a previous map but found it way too tedious since there are so many "what if" complications that can arise.

What I can tell you is, there will be somewhat of a cover system in that while not in the next release candidate, there will be collision checks with some of the environment such as large buildings so you cant shoot through them and kill players like you can currently, so I may add other detections such as barrels and crates for example. the main problem is making sure it is not too cpu extensive since checking over 500 different objects instantly can be a bit much.

I noticed i could move forward and rotate Left but not right, then i had to stand still

but otherwise its awesome :D the headshot sound made me laugh
hm, that is an interesting find I guess I just never caught that bug when testing, so it has now been fixed. I like the headshot sound so I figured I would keep it in for good. I am going to avoid any kill spree sounds however, as it has mixed preference and is best to just leave it out for now.

I am getting closer to an online testable version soon, right now I am working on how I am going to go about the ammunition and reloading. I dont know if I want to have a specific amount of ammunition held in each weapon with reloading, or if I want no reload and a round is loaded in between each shot. Ill figure something out. ^_^ Just remember, this wont be the complete map, just a test playable. I am leaving out class abilities and game modes and creating only a test environment not the actual map layout it will have.

Opinions are welcome to how you think the level design should be. As in environment and such like a wilderness, or a town, or a mix of both etc. For the most part it will have to be a mix between a small town and some wilderness as there needs to be both longer range and close range combat as well as capture points and etc. I dont know when I will be able to add the actual game mode, but basically it will be a compilation of game modes all mixed into one that cycle. Like one mode may be to kill as many enemy players for your team in 5 minutes and the team with the most kills gets one team point, another may be something like killing a specific player on the other team in 3 minutes or something. Then probably capturing or defending a random capture point from the other team. Basically, I am going to focusing on team play, but all these game modes wont be added for a while unfortunately.
 
Level 8
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hm, you make a good point... however when playing online manually shooting with no assistance can be very difficult and cause about 90% of any potential players to instantly leave. i am hoping this will somewhat alleviate that. this map wont be centered off sniping, while it has sniping in it, its more focused on fast pace shooting with team work and if you happen to be good with manual aiming, then you will be noticeably better than people who cant since auto locking can only go so far. For the people who do not want to use an auto lock, they will probably like the sniper class the most since there is no auto lock available and it is mostly intended for long range sniping with 1 shot kills to chest and head for the most part depending on the armor of say a rifleman class they may or may not survive one chest shot due to their remaining armor.

auto locking also has an accuracy penalty, but only time and tweaking can balance the auto lock system. at close range, the auto lock is going to be pretty accurate, at mid to long range your not going to hit a damn thing unless your standing still aiming in while auto locking and a bit of luck. most of the guns are probably going to be pretty imbalanced since its hard to really tell what is going to be good, bad, too powerful, and too useless shooting non interactive targets but they will perform somewhat how I intend them to. although, the actual projectile animations are pissing me off since they just simply look like crap for a few of the guns due to special effects gone awry. gonna need a modeler eventually to fix that. ^_^
 
Level 14
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Well, Tricky.
For online, you are right there. Aiming can be a hell. Well, to make non-lock better, and not sucky due all other using lock, make it be a little auto!

So, right now, when you press WAS or D, it travels a little to the given direction.

What if it traveled a lower direction, if it cross over a player?
You wont get that damn aim thingyu, where you keep pressing A and D, because your enemy is just between the two points he aim. Instead, it will travel a little shorter, because its aim points at a player.

So, all in all. If the non-lock aim points at a player, it will stop moving.
 
Level 8
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I meant keep having the ability mashing, but instead of using that to aim, use it to move. I found it troublesome trying to aim with the ability's, but moving isn't as crucial it seems.

I would imagine reversing it would make it a lot worse since you will be moving around a lot. It is unforunate it has to be this way, but I make due with what I can.

Well, Tricky.
For online, you are right there. Aiming can be a hell. Well, to make non-lock better, and not sucky due all other using lock, make it be a little auto!

So, right now, when you press WAS or D, it travels a little to the given direction.

What if it traveled a lower direction, if it cross over a player?
You wont get that damn aim thingyu, where you keep pressing A and D, because your enemy is just between the two points he aim. Instead, it will travel a little shorter, because its aim points at a player.

So, all in all. If the non-lock aim points at a player, it will stop moving.

This is actually a good idea, I have tried something similar to this already but it quickly evolved into an actual auto lock. I may actually do something similar to this again since it is essentionally a simplified version of the auto lock already implemented. The only issue for the time being with adding it, is that a lot of the features thus far require a massive amount of calculations and I dont want to temporarily freeze computers as an incredibily high loop would do for example. Most likely I will do this though, or something similar. Basically, from a technical standpoint it would work something like comparing the angle before you press a WASD key and the angle it would be after pressing the key. If a player resides in between those two angles, then it would do something like center in between both. However, it could have potential problems like chasing faster moving targets and the auto centering may turn bad. I suppose people can try seeing how well sniping will be if I ever finish this next test version before I add any kind of assist.

Maybe you can make the auto-target effect (the locked-on crosshair thing) change color to help the player determine how much health that target has.

Hm, an interesting suggestion. I suppose I could possibly do this but I would need to come up with some kind of RGB formula, but for now I will leave it as a static color for now (Yellow). ^_^

Wouldn't that make it too powerful against non-locking players?

Else, they would need a way to see hp too :)

(Yes, i support non-lock, as im defintly going hardcore :D)

Lol, I can tell you don't like my auto lock concept, which is completely fine lol. I didn't expect it to turn out to work as well as it did when I made it. Like I mentioned before, it will most definitely have its balance tweaks but for the most part the auto locking is not really useful past say 15 to 20 yards (72 distance per yard) so approximiately 1500 range. There is no long range auto lock, most of the targeting will be close quarter gun battles so anyone who say may want to be a sniper would not ever have to worry about being auto locked from 30+ yards away, it just will not happen. I believe anyone who does not want to use auto lock would be great at the Sharpshooter class since there is absoultely no auto lock but long range and pretty high damage or even the Tactician which has auto lock but also a scope with about half the distance and damage of the Sharpshooter for anyone who may want to do a bit of both but excels at neither.

I would also like to state that using auto lock also has penalties. Auto lock or not, moving while shooting alone will decrease your accuracy by about half meritting standing while shooting but not necissarily butchering accuracy that its just retarted. Using auto lock itself will also amplify a decrease in accuracy due to the fact that if a target is moving while locked, there is quite a large accuracy loss depending on how fast the class your shooting at can move. For example, if you are auto locked onto a Rifleman who has a slow movement speed of 240, initially if he is not moving then you have a pretty good chance of killing him quickly. However, once he starts moving and you are auto locked and shooting him, you suddenly suffer an additional loss accuracy loss of 1.8. Yes, I was nerdy enough to come up with a somewhat hopeful accuracy system that might or might not work well.

A gun may have an accuracy multiplier of 2. This means, when shot it will have an approximate accuracy spread of 2 degrees. While moving this is amplified by 50%. While auto locked, there is no penalty itself, but if the target is moving then the accuracy is multiplied by 75% of the target movement speed. Aiming, which is different than auto locking is simply magnifying your vision slightly (or majorly if sniping) and it will increase the accuracy if using it by 20% which also has slower rotation speeds for better precision, and from 80 to 100% accuracy for the scoped weapons. So a rifleman has an accuracy of 2, multiply that by 50% when moving that is now an accuracy of 3. Then while auto locking the target is moving and has a speed of 270, so now the accuracy is at 3 plus (270*.0075) which equals roughly an accuracy of 5 degrees. Now if the rifleman was also zooming in slightly, that is improved by 20% so it then turns to about 4 degrees. An overly complicated formula, but I could not come up with a simpler accuracy formula. lol Four degrees, while it techincally should be pretty inaccurate, due to warcrafts crappy way of random seeding, it is actually moderately accurate.

Now, if I could only actually finish the important things so I can get a playable out. 0_o
 
Level 18
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Aug 3, 2008
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i played this map and it kicks major ass.

a few things though, The controls are neat, but i think you should tweak it a little bit more.

Instead of having to continually keep pressing the WASD keys to move the camera, it should be that you hold the WASD keys down for it to move. because it gets annoying to having to press it, and move and shoot at the same time.
 
Level 9
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May 10, 2009
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The controls are excellent, but the WOW factor is diminished. Lol I had a minor play around with it, spawning Archimondes - you should introduce interesting stragetic terrain/height with gimmicks such as teleporters, Creeps. I've also noticed that theres an Attack Dog/Plane unit. Special abilities? Well, the Oblivion map I'm part of will have Arrow Key movement and First Person camera.

As he said in main post (i think), and that you should know, TDHX, it is not possible to detect buttons hold down, other than arrowkeys. And actually, you dont check when holding down arrowkeys, you check when pressing and releasing.

Actually, you can sorta. For example, turn on a trigger while its been pressed, and turn off a trigger while its been released. Bingo.
 
Level 7
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Jun 1, 2006
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375
I hate people like you because you make every other map look pathetic. JK. This is a seriously cool map keep up the good work.
 
Level 1
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May 13, 2009
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If WASD Keys can't be held for movement -- How did they do it in that Combat Zone map then?

I've looked at that map like 100 times and I still can't figure out his movement system. Makes me think there's 3rd party programs at work.
 
Level 6
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Mar 12, 2007
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Sorry if this post is a little late, but I'm angry at myself for not seeing this!

I played it really quickly and my first impression was fantastic. Terrain looked way good, model for your character was cool, and he even had a reload animation. I would say keep going with this. Fantastic stuff here.

It was a little easy with the auto target thing, but it made the game really fluid. I don't know how you could work out so you can have the auto target but make it harder, but you definitely should try. The movement of the camera was A LOT better than I thought, but still you should look into making it so that you can hold WASD to move it around, rather than tapping it. If not, it still is amazing.

Thanks for listening to my 2 cents, and keep up the really good work.
 
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