The Red Swamp

[Moderator]

08:28, 19th Aug 2014
Orcnet:

What caught me about this map is how the starter bases are open wide to possible attacks and less trees means lesser defense which gives in a deep tone of competition which is a boost for game play either against a 2 man team or free for all, I was expecting a stronger creep camp on the middle to gain big exp points for my hero/es and get gold and items but since the concept is more of a tavern I guess its considerable.

Terrain is open wide and the idea of shallow waters on a outland theme is somehow unique and well made, but the idea of archways on trees seems to be not natural, maybe remove it or add rocks on each ends of the archway, in short I had no much problems with the terrain.

Overall map can be approved and acceptable.

 

[sonofjay]

The mini-map look really nice and really took my interest when I stumbled on this on the pending section so I quickly downloaded it and gave it a shot. Too bad the map doesn't look as good as its mini-map but its still decent.

Some of the point that really disappointed me is that there are many flat and empty spaces all over the map. The map title says that the map is a jungle so isn't it just logical that it will be filled with more environmental doodads or since its a battle field for Warlocks then it should be filled with ruined doodads.

Also I don't really like that thick brown grass, I switched it to Village Fall - Short Grass and it looked a lot better.

Other than that, starting resource are fine, creep drops seems to be reasonable and even though the terrain designing is lacking the layout is really something. Decent melee map.

3/5.

 

[Filmting]

No i don't at all feel that the map is lacking in doodads and have too many empty spaces. Layout designed for competetive play with a good mixture of enclosed an open areas, and open areas are not nessecarily a bad thing as long as they are done properly. I think it's just perfect, and i like the barrens grass better. Tried all the various tilesets and i found this one working best for the theme i had in my head. Don't want it to look too shallow or outland like.
Compared to blizzard melee maps it have just the perfect amount of doodads. Might not be as impressive as your mass doodad and custom model maps, but thats not what i am trying to do. Simple and pretty.
I think this is one of the greatest melee maps i have made and 3/5 is just sad imo, but we all have our opinions. I just value more in melee maps the layout and general design above terrain i guess. Name also not that importent imo, but could rename it "The Red Swamp" instead, if it better fits the theme.

 

[sonofjay]

Layout designed for competetive play with a good mixture of enclosed an open areas, and open areas are not nessecarily a bad thing as long as they are done properly.

Yet it could have been design more without blocking the areas.

Tried all the various tilesets and i found this one working best for the theme i had in my head. Don't want it to look too shallow or outland like.

Shame since the Village Fall Short Grass really did some wonder. Will keep both version though since the Barren grass isn't really that bad.

Simple and pretty.

I understand and I even think that you did a very good job at it but you can still retain this while pulling out the best potential of your idea.You could check some of Remixer's melee map since I consider him a master at making simple yet really beautiful melee maps.

I think this is one of the greatest melee maps i have made and 3/5 is just sad imo, but we all have our opinions.

Do not be discourage, compared to your other melee map this is really your best right now but its pretty obvious that you're still improving and have a lot of potential for more.

Name also not that importent imo, but could rename it "The Red Swamp" instead, if it better fits the theme.

I know, but I was expecting it to be like that when I saw the map title.

 

[SweeTw3]

I disagree with you 100%. This map was designed for competitive play, and Filmting is one of the only people on this site that takes that into consideration. A lot of the 'melee maps' i've come across on this site lack many of the elements that competitive melee maps need - and open spaces is one of them. For example this map i found http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...ge-223362/?prev=t=51&mur=4&r=20&d=list&page=3 is very very poorly designed for competitive play, yet it has a 5 star rating. Yes it's pretty, with a nice terrain, but its not built for melee play whatsoever… its basically unplayable and the main reason is because there isn't enough open space. FIlmting's map, on the other hand, has a good balance - I even went as far as saying it was too clustered with some of the creep camps near the centre. The only place I would say there is 'open space' is the middle, which i think is completely fine and well designed. And if you look at Blizzard's maps like filmting also pointed out, none of their maps have any more doodads than this. This map actually a good amount of doodads and most than your typical Blizzard map (Look at twisted meadows). I would say this pretty damn close to being the perfect melee map for competitive play, with good terrain, good creep selection, possibility of AoW and mitlita creeping as well as BM item sniping, and a fairly easy route for UD to creep level 3 dk with fiends. I think some of the items could be a little revised, but other than that great map. 4.5/5.


ALSO i checked out some of the Remixer's maps. Not exactly competitive melee maps once again.

 

[sonofjay]

So you mean lets all just make melee map that is fit for competitive melee map where we can BM snipe, raise a huge army and clash them together on one big open area? Bullshit. Melee maps aren't supposed to be played in one play style over and over and over and over again and this is where melee maps with innovative ideas comes. I may not be as hardcore as a melee players as you guys but I do at least wants an environment where I can play a different style every once in a while than what you usually see on competitive games.

ALSO i checked out some of the Remixer's maps. Not exactly competitive melee maps once again.

When did I say its competitive melee maps. Oh wait.. competitive melee maps are the only thing you like.


We both said our opinions on melee map I respect your competitive melee maps but its sad that you don't respect our innovative melee maps.

P.S.

Seriously though, I could raise the rating to something a little higher if Filmting will try to at least put some more doodads on those open spaces like mushrooms, shrubs and any doodads that will not block the area. But I think he already decided not to update the map.

P.S.S.

Well I guess its kinda wrong to review a map based on my taste but what the heck, most people not just on Warcraft 3 scene review stuffs based on their taste.

 

[Kino]

Well I guess its kinda wrong to review a map based on my taste but what the heck, most people not just on Warcraft 3 scene review stuffs based on their taste.

I thought we rated maps based on description and their BBcodes to plain text ratio.

Anyway, on topic.
I really like this map, solely because it uses an aesthetic that doesn't hinge on high-res models but instead develops an idea based on pre-existing resources.
Personally I do not like the use of mushrooms on the orange dirt, but then again if that was the plan who am I to say otherwise.
All in all this map has style, something that import quality doesn't buy.

 

[sonofjay]

All in all this map has style, something that import quality doesn't buy.

Is this a straight shot on me because I'm practically the only one who consistently use imported doodads. Never even said anything about imported doodads in this whole conversation. Sad since there is no one really appreciate the shit I've done for melee mapping.

I thought we rated maps based on description and their BBcodes to plain text ratio.

I wonder if the sarcasm was shot because I'm one of those who doesn't like people who just keep posting about maps shitty description.

 

[Zaramorus]

Odyssey Online Classic is a mid-evil styled, top-view, 2d online RPG originally released in the early mid-90s. It was the first game of it's kind to use the Visual Basics programming language for a successful online role playing game. Code Mallet has been controlling the server and the game's upkeep for over six years now.
16 years and still running strong!

The source code for the project was released back to the community in hopes that one day a successor will arise from an aspiring developer who understands the game similar to how the Classic branch itself was born.

The current main active multiplayer server is Odyssey Reborn located at http://www.odysseyreborn.com/


DOWNLOAD: http://www.odysseyreborn.com/downloads.html
TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3faE4d5-KI

Ehm...this is not a place for such thing. Go post this in the forums instead.

 

[SweeTw3]

Don't get me wrong, I do respect beautifully designed and innovative maps as I am a graphic designer myself. But I just feel like there is little to no gameplay aspects taken into account when designing these 'innovative maps'. In my opinion 'melee maps' should resemble and have similar aspects to the Blizzard melee maps, as far as balance, item drops and overall gameplay go. The maps you refer to, to me, are basically just maps to view for aesthetic purposes (the terrain and the eccentric/unsymmetrical designs). For example, I had a look at a map you made 'In the End'. While i Liked some of the design features, the overall map cannot really be played as a 'melee map' as it has no real melee elements in it. As a melee player myself, the best 'melee maps' are the ones that value gameplay and balance greater than anything else. Once you have that, then you can make it aesthetically pleasing.

 

[sonofjay]

Well I think we don't have to drag this conversation anymore. I fully understand your argument and I admit that I may be wrong on some points and kinda lost my temper along the way. Anyway like I said on post before, I review the map based on my taste and that is how most people review so I don't really feel like changing it because I'll be lying to myself if I did.

For example, I had a look at a map you made 'In the End'. While i Liked some of the design features, the overall map cannot really be played as a 'melee map' as it has no real melee elements in it.

Well my 'In the End' map is overly rated anyway. I did said somewhere that I still prefer my 'Rocky Land' map than 'In the End'. People was just shock back then since its probably the first melee map that was uploaded here that fully utilize imported doodads .

 

[Arrr]

keep in mind, in melee maps it is better to set the game data in map options to "last patch"

 

[Orcnet]

Map approved.

 

[Zucth]

Hm.. I later(found) realize that the terrain and idea is kinda similar to my experiment 'Refined Land' maybe someone did found this combination and make it. That's a good news to me. Anyway not gonna rate any, many things are out of how ladder look in the 6 years later xD