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The Orchestrations of Alkonis

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I figured I'd open a thread to share some of my orchestral dabblings. So far I have a small piece for orchestra, and two versions of a string quartet.


Tools
:

•Garritan Personal Orchestra 4 (samples), shipped with Aria Player (sampler)
•Sonar HS 7 (Digital Audio Workshop)
•M-Audio Oxygen 49 (MIDI controller) to play highly velocity-sensitive parts (keyboard/harp/percussion)
•mouse and keyboard to write in notes, expression, dynamics, and velocity

All my older music isn't here anymore because now that I'm taking theory and working with much better sounds, I feel like my old stuff all sounds silly. The only one that I think had any merit is Triumph.

Edit: attached a screenshot of the beginning of "Remembrance" in Sonar. All the vertical lines represent modulation wheel movement (the mod wheel controls volume and timbre, and I use it for dynamics and expression), and the horizontal lines are the actual notes. Looks like some of my mod wheel motions got buried underneath the note tracks, like with the vocal solo, but oh well.

(Complaint: why auto-lock threads for inactivity in the music forum? It's like locking maps from comments or updates.)

Other Stuff:

Here's a draft of a score I wrote for about three minutes of a silent film. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeqcBa-uY-c&feature=channel_video_title Still working on it, so feel free to give me feedback.
 

Attachments

  • Remembrance.mp3
    2.3 MB · Views: 174
  • RemembranceInSonar.JPG
    RemembranceInSonar.JPG
    193.5 KB · Views: 203
  • Quartet2.mp3
    1.7 MB · Views: 77
  • RevisedQuartet.mp3
    1.8 MB · Views: 140
  • IntroAndTernary.mp3
    2.5 MB · Views: 81
  • Intro and Ternary in C Minor.mp3
    2.6 MB · Views: 105
Last edited:
Level 10
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Well, "sound realistic" needs to be defined by everyone for himself, and though your piece sounds nice, I'd definitely hear that you did not use real instruments to record it.

There are definitely still problems with software-instruments and these will be more significant the more you want to make complicated, and maybe faster things sound clearly, because sometimes you just kill the impression if you add too much reverb to it, e.g. just imagine an action piece of musical underscoring comparable to e.g. the film music of Star Wars with so much reverb like you used in your piece - it will be completely incomprehensible for the listener.

Your piece "Remembrances" sounds nice but it does sound nice just because you wrote it in a way that is ideal for virtual instruments:
- strings just make slow and chord-based background, nothing that needs to be precise in a rhythmical way
- Harp and piano play the melody, which are both instruments which can be sampled very well because their sound does not change very much in different dynamics and as soon as a note is initiated, the player can not change it at all. Try to do this with a solo violin or a trumpet and the sound will suck, I'm sure.
- overall ambience is very romantic, even cheesy, so much reverb is welcome and will cover many of the inconveniences in the individual sound of the instrumental parts


BTW: I'll be pleased if you add some more pieces/mixes to this thread in the future because the theme "how to make something sound nice without hiring a professional orchestra" is definitely worth discussing, especially since I don't have much experience and always was annoyed when I tried to mix something myself. :wink:
 
(Complaint: why auto-lock threads for inactivity in the music forum? It's like locking maps from comments or updates.)

The music forums haven't really garnered much attention atm because of the relative lack of people using them, on top of other things (none of the mods really are big supporters of user made music atm - the music forums only really have 1 moderator, and that's the general art moderator (General Frank), who also (I believe he still does, mod positions have be changing abit more frequently lately) moderates the model resources, taking a lot of his time - so really the only mods are the general site mods)) thus the music section is essentially/relatively (I'm sure if someone supported something or that sort of thing it'd get attention, but it's not like there's mods constantly browsing it or anything, at least that's my impression atm) un-moderated. I'm sure if there was a much larger user base in the music forums (it is growing atm, I can definitely see that) details like that would probably become more of an issue, and thus something would be done about that.


-About your piece
I love how subtle it is, it definitely has a "soundtrack" type feeling to it - interesting how it resolves to a major chord in the last measure after carrying a minor type feeling through the majority of the song. As Waldbear said though, it does sound more like a demonstration made for soft-synths - you should upload some more pieces that you just wrote for the intention of writing, and liking music.

But yeah, you should try making one with a Violin soloist if you're going to be demonstrating how to make realistic sounding music with soft-synths, out of all soft-synth instruments I've worked with, a solo violin is one of the most difficult to make some presentable with.
 
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Thanks for the comments! Cue uber-long response post.

This piece wasn't composed specifically to make realistic-sounding sampled instruments. I probably would've done things different if I'd meant to show off instrument sound. My impetus to write this piece was that I wanted to try out the new sounds I received over the holidays, but none of my choices in instrumentation came from wanting exploration.

I meant for this piece to tell a story. It starts major, dips into minor, returns to major with a bit of tension, then becomes minor for the rest of the piece until the resolution, where it switches back to major. (Resolving a minor piece into a major chord is called a picardy third; Bach used it heavily.)

A lot of the purpose of this piece was to play around different tonalities, bringing out the minor parts of a major key, or the major parts of a minor key, etc. (It was easy to do because I was moving between G major and its relative minor, E.) For example, the solo violin has the same melody near beginning and end of the piece. The first time, the harp plays harmony based off the major scale, and the second time, the piano plays harmony that's mostly minor. (It goes minor-diminished-major-minor.)

@Waldbaer:

There are definitely still problems with software-instruments and these will be more significant the more you want to make complicated, and maybe faster things sound clearly, because sometimes you just kill the impression if you add too much reverb to it, e.g. just imagine an action piece of musical underscoring comparable to e.g. the film music of Star Wars with so much reverb like you used in your piece - it will be completely incomprehensible for the listener.

I used about as much reverb as an orchestra performing in an auditorium would have. I stuck all my synths on Aria Player's preset for a concert hall, though with some percussion instruments (i.e., timpani and bass drum), I toned it up a bit to simulate being farther back on stage, as I wanted tremendous sound on the bass drum and timpani in the minor sections. The one thing that I didn't do is set pans on all my instruments, and when I go home this weekend I might do that.

I have different instrument articulations (up/down bow strokes, alternating strokes, short detache bows) for faster pieces, but for this piece, I only sampled "lush" strings. Fast pieces are possible, but with the stipulation that it might be a lot of work for me switching through articulations. That, and I don't really have much desire to do them; the pieces I like composing and hearing are slow, beautiful ones, like Barber's "Adagio for Strings," Bach's "Fantasia in G major," and Reed's "A Symphonic Prelude."

- strings just make slow and chord-based background, nothing that needs to be precise in a rhythmical way

The strings have the melody more than any other instrument, both by full string orchestra and solo violin. It's just not a very rhythmically complex melody, and it has a lot of sustains.

- overall ambience is very romantic, even cheesy, so much reverb is welcome and will cover many of the inconveniences in the individual sound of the instrumental parts

There are things that I can do that can compensate for lack of reverb, but when I use reverb I don't do them. Synthesizing is just like playing a bunch of instruments; musicians compensate for live rooms by playing with less volume and sustain; if I were to axe the reverb, I'd need more volume and sustain.

- Harp and piano play the melody, which are both instruments which can be sampled very well because their sound does not change very much in different dynamics and as soon as a note is initiated, the player can not change it at all. Try to do this with a solo violin or a trumpet and the sound will suck, I'm sure.

It's funny that you mention this. It's actually much easier for me to write for strings than it is for harp and piano. With strings, I can draw in dynamics and expression by hand, but it's very difficult to pick the right velocity for a plucked instrument, as you end up with about 100 notes, each of which need to be played in a specific way if you want it to be musical. I usually write out the harp/piano parts and then record them from my MIDI controller.

Technically, the harp never has the melody, and the piano has it only for two measures, one of which is shared with the first violins. The solo violin has the melody in two places.

I'm not entirely sure what the limits of my solo instruments and brass instruments are. My last collection of brass instruments was terribad, but these might be good; I have four or five horns, three trumpets, and capacities to build ensembles from a selection of something like eight horns and four trumpets. The solo/ensemble instruments have mute settings, aggressive settings, and some have overlays for f or ff playing. It's something I'll have to mess with a bit, but I think I can get them sounding decent with some practice.

BTW: I'll be pleased if you add some more pieces/mixes to this thread in the future because the theme "how to make something sound nice without hiring a professional orchestra" is definitely worth discussing, especially since I don't have much experience and always was annoyed when I tried to mix something myself.

If people are interested, I would gladly post a tutorial on how to get the tools to synthesize an orchestra. But every time I mention something like that, I get tons of people telling me that orchestral synthesis is a terrible idea, live orchestras are so much better, and all real composers use live orchestras. (The truth is that with time and money, a virtual orchestra can sound pretty dang close to a real one.)


@Where/therewolfman:

I'm sure if there was a much larger user base in the music forums (it is growing atm, I can definitely see that) details like that would probably become more of an issue, and thus something would be done about that.

If the forums were big, I think closing for inactivity would be fine. But when they're small, I think it inhibits growth.

out of all soft-synth instruments I've worked with, a solo violin is one of the most difficult to make some presentable with.

If I had Garritan's old Stradivari sampler, I think I could get it sounding amazingly realistic--but it's expensive and discontinued, so I don't think that's feasible anymore. As is, I'm not sure if my special solo violins have any articulations besides the basic ones. The instruments sound beautiful when appropriate, but I'm not sure how much of a range of playing they could exhibit in a solo piece. I'll check when I get back from school.
 
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Wow, that's a stunning post! :goblin_jawdrop:

One thing first: Sorry that I listened that bad to your piece the first time and then writing this critical post. I don't know what I heard that time, now I listened to it again and easily completely understand it as I should (following your post).

I meant for this piece to tell a story. It starts major, dips into minor, returns to major with a bit of tension, then becomes minor for the rest of the piece until the resolution, where it switches back to major. ...
I must say, I like your piece now. It flows very naturally, I nearly never have the feeling that anything has been wanted by your mind; that's how music should work always. Btw, for me it feels minor the whole time, I don't ever feel like in G major, it's completely e minor, the picardic third does not change that and the major dominant chord (B major) does not, too.
But this does not make it bad, you succeeded in creating a piece in minor that is so clearly and brightly, that it feels nearly like major.

@Waldbaer: I used about as much reverb as an orchestra performing in an auditorium would have...
No matter what your presets are called like, this does not sound like a classical concert hall but nearly like a church. The sound of the reverb reminds a little more to concert hall than to church since it is quite dark and warm, but the amount is nearly cologne cathedral feeling. It is just too long for a concert hall, because there you want a clear sound, to show off the musicians perfect craftsmanship, this does not work with so much reverb.

I have different instrument articulations (up/down bow strokes, alternating strokes, short detache bows) for faster pieces,...
Damn it, that's exactly what I always miss when I'm trying to get an orchestra sound out of my computer. Which sampler exactly does offer this and how do you switch between the articulations?

There are things that I can do that can compensate for lack of reverb,...
This part is very interesting for me, I'll try out to get this done the next time I cook some music up. Thank you for the tips!

It's actually much easier for me to write for strings than it is for harp and piano. With strings, I can draw in dynamics and expression by hand, but it's very difficult to pick the right velocity for a plucked instrument, as you end up with about 100 notes, each of which need to be played in a specific way if you want it to be musical. I usually write out the harp/piano parts and then record them from my MIDI controller.
I wonder what you can do with your software to influence the strings playing. If you just draw an automation curve for the velocity of your midi source, this won't be more than a very rough approach to what a good real string musician can do with just one long note (varying independently loudness and sound color and vibrato).
This velocity curve won't work that easy for instruments with more than one melodic line like a piano (you would need to be able to draw different curves for the different melodic layers and then decide which note has to go with which curve), but your workaround works for it, but not for a string instrument (ideally somebody should just play the plucked instrument's part nicely on a keyboard and the MIDI won't sound too bad, too).


If people are interested, I would gladly post a tutorial on how to get the tools to synthesize an orchestra. But every time I mention something like that, I get tons of people telling me that orchestral synthesis is a terrible idea, live orchestras are so much better, and all real composers use live orchestras. (The truth is that with time and money, a virtual orchestra can sound pretty dang close to a real one.)
I was very interested if you could post such a tutorial, because the truth is, that a real orchestra is (at least at our days) still much better than a synthesized one, but nearly no hobby musician like us has the money to hire a professional orchestra for every dumb little piece he writes. But nevertheless we want our music come to sound and a syntie orchestra is the best way to do so without too much cost, I think.


@Where/therewolfman:
If the forums were big, I think closing for inactivity would be fine. But when they're small, I think it inhibits growth.
I agree. Though I never looked at a topic that was closed for inactivity myself, but generally I think your thought is logical.
 
If people are interested, I would gladly post a tutorial on how to get the tools to synthesize an orchestra. But every time I mention something like that, I get tons of people telling me that orchestral synthesis is a terrible idea, live orchestras are so much better, and all real composers use live orchestras. (The truth is that with time and money, a virtual orchestra can sound pretty dang close to a real one.)

Brambleclaw != a whole bunch of people

Go ahead, I'd love to see how to improve that sort of thing
 
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Well, the reason I complaining was because my old music thread was locked, meaning that I couldn't 1.) remove all my old music or 2.) add new music.

Brambleclaw != a whole bunch of people

Go ahead, I'd love to see how to improve that sort of thing

Bramble's the extreme, but he's not the only one (though he is proof that I get way too into arguments). It doesn't help that I'm extremely sensitive to this issue, since I'm at a school where half the studentry plans to become professional musicians, so they're violently opposed to any kind of orchestral synthesis.

iDunno. If I ever do write a tutorial, it'll probably be on a whim, so I won't promise to do it or not to do it. I'm hesitant, though, because I know that lots of people will probably disagree with some of what I say, and I really don't want to argue with people any more than I have to.


Btw, for me it feels minor the whole time, I don't ever feel like in G major, it's completely e minor,

The piece begins with these chords: I iii64 ii64 (sounds like vi) VII64 (sounds like IV). It sounds like I iii vi IV, which is an uncadenced major circle-of-fifths progression. It then goes to III (V of E minor) instead of V (V of G major) when the vocal solo comes in--that's when you have the first modulation. The first half of the piece is mainly G major progressions that don't resolve to a tonic G major chord; they instead lapse into minor keys and end with either half-cadences or tonic minor chords. So, yeah, it sounds minorish, but it's actually majorish. I can hear the G major in the beginning, but I guess it's easy to lose it in the minor chords that follow.

this does not sound like a classical concert hall but nearly like a church

I think our definitions vary. Methinks you're referring to what I would call a recital hall, meant for solo performances or chamber groups. I'm referring to auditoriums and large concert halls like Carnegie.

If you just draw an automation curve for the velocity of your midi source, this won't be more than a very rough approach to what a good real string musician can do with just one long note (varying independently loudness and sound color and vibrato).

I can't control vibrato using my current sounds. Loudness and sound color are linked, kind of, though I could cheat the system if I really wanted to. Still, it would take an extremely talented musician--probably a virtuoso--to match or outplay my solo violins for the purposes I use them. Synths can do very easily a lot of things that most players can't, but good players can do very easily a lot of things that synths can't.

I was very interested if you could post such a tutorial, because the truth is, that a real orchestra is (at least at our days) still much better than a synthesized one,

I think you're oversimplifying things, and that it's not too great of an idea to try comparing a virtual orchestra to a real one (see below). Of course a real orchestra will be better at being a real orchestra than a synthesized orchestra (but it doesn't matter, because the real concern of both should be just sounding good). Basically:

but nearly no hobby musician like us has the money to hire a professional orchestra for every dumb little piece he writes. But nevertheless we want our music come to sound and a syntie orchestra is the best way to do so without too much cost, I think.

Therein lies a lot of people's problem. Writing for virtual orchestra is different than writing for a real orchestra. With a real orchestra, you have eight billion different instruments that you're automatically expected to use (regardless of whether you can really hear the clarinet 3 part in a fff full hit), and you're forced to consider balance, which often makes you double parts all over the place, giving you huge meshes of textures.

Instead of having to worry about all that stuff, you have to actually "play" the instruments, and that's a lot of work if you want them to sound good. Almost every note in every part in "Remembrance" has modulation wheel movement, sometimes swooping from 60 to 127 in one beat. (With GPO4, it's the mod wheel that controls volume and timbre; velocity only affects the attack of sustained instruments.) I'm not going to dip into all the musician-nerdy specifics, but because of this, you generally end up with smaller ensembles, giving you a much clearer, more distinct sound than a real orchestra (because you can control everything about it, so you don't need to double an ostinato in four woodwind parts so it's heard over the brass), at the cost of virtuosity, texture, and color (because synthesizers almost never write for first/second violins, first/second violas, celli, basses, 2-4 trumpets, 4 horns, 2-3 trombones, 1-3 tubas, 2-3 flutes, 3-4 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 2-3 oboes, piano, and harp all at the same time).

Of course, all of this is assuming that you have really good samples to work with. I don't use really good samples.

Damn it, that's exactly what I always miss when I'm trying to get an orchestra sound out of my computer. Which sampler exactly does offer this and how do you switch between the articulations?

Any professional library worth buying will probably have several articulations. I use GPO4, and it doesn't have that many, but there are enough to satisfy me. (EWQLSOG has like 42967296 articulations or something.) You can load a different instrument for each articulation (which does have its uses), but GPO4 programmed key switches, so that when I play A1, A#1, B1, etc. in my first violin part, they'll switch to half-step trills, up bows, up bows with mutes, etc.

For lulz and wiggelz, I'm attaching a screenshot of the beginning of "Remembrance" as I have it in Sonar. See the original post for info.

Also, @piesosama: thanks!
 
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iDunno. If I ever do write a tutorial, it'll probably be on a whim, so I won't promise to do it or not to do it. I'm hesitant, though, because I know that lots of people will probably disagree with some of what I say, and I really don't want to argue with people any more than I have to.
I hope you'll get on that whim. :wink:
You're right though, that this will probably provoke discussions, but these can be productive, if people don't only say "this is bad" but also what they would like to do different. In the end (as always with music), there will be different possibilities to get something done but everybody has to try out himself what fits best his wishes.
You should not be too scared of discussions! :ogre_haosis:


[theme: reverb] I think our definitions vary. Methinks you're referring to what I would call a recital hall, meant for solo performances or chamber groups. I'm referring to auditoriums and large concert halls like Carnegie.
Well, I don't know Carneggie Hall but probably your're right that we just have different ideas how a "concert hall" sounds. As I said, it fits your piece, but I personally would be careful to set this amount of reverb as the standard.


Of course a real orchestra will be better at being a real orchestra than a synthesized orchestra (but it doesn't matter, because the real concern of both should be just sounding good). ... Writing for virtual orchestra is different than writing for a real orchestra.
Thank you for rendering this more precisely. This is a very important aspect, but until now I do not know any guidelines/hints to help me getting a virtual orchestra sounding good. That's why I appreciate your idea to write a tutorial. :wink:

With GPO4, it's the mod wheel that controls volume and timbre; velocity only affects the attack of sustained instruments.
I did not know this way of controlling software instruments until now (that's why I was always very unsatisfied with the results when using sustained instruments). I'm using Logic and at the moment only the internal sounds... I'll try to find out if there are possibilities like this in Logic, too.
Thank you for the other information, too. Many of the things you mention are interesting for me and will be tried out. :thumbs_up:
 
Bramble's the extreme, but he's not the only one (though he is proof that I get way too into arguments). It doesn't help that I'm extremely sensitive to this issue, since I'm at a school where half the studentry plans to become professional musicians, so they're violently opposed to any kind of orchestral synthesis.

iDunno. If I ever do write a tutorial, it'll probably be on a whim, so I won't promise to do it or not to do it. I'm hesitant, though, because I know that lots of people will probably disagree with some of what I say, and I really don't want to argue with people any more than I have to.

haters-gonna-hate-panda.jpg


Then don't argue, as Waldbear said, realistically not everyone's going to have a full orchestra at their disposal - also note that if the piece is for like a game project or something, the average listener most likely wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway. As technology progresses anyway, orchestral synthesis becoming more and more realistic - also note that synthesized orchestras have their own creative advantages too if you want to get creative with the sound, I doubt many professional concert violinists would be too open to trying something like flanger on their pure sound, that which is unrealistic to human methods is suddenly simple and even easy to make.
 
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SWEET MOMMA FROM YOKOHAMA! You guys sure post. I was going to write a long post myself, but after seeing this huge wall of text, I'll make it short.

Very nice piece, the acoustics are very interesting and the melody is very nice. It also flows pretty well. SO THERE!

/sarcasm - You show-offs!
 
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But long posts are nice and prettyful and wonderfultastic. And thanks.

And iDunno about the tutorial thing. We'll see if I get enough time.
 
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Uploading a new piece, a chorale-like quartet I wrote over break before getting GPO4. It uses Studio Instruments string sections. The balance is a little off, because I was using weird speakers when I was composing it originally; I don't have SI strings installed on my school computer, and I'm too lazy to go back and fix the balance.
 
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Well, the reason I complaining was because my old music thread was locked, meaning that I couldn't 1.) remove all my old music or 2.) add new music.



Bramble's the extreme, but he's not the only one (though he is proof that I get way too into arguments). It doesn't help that I'm extremely sensitive to this issue, since I'm at a school where half the studentry plans to become professional musicians, so they're violently opposed to any kind of orchestral synthesis.

iDunno. If I ever do write a tutorial, it'll probably be on a whim, so I won't promise to do it or not to do it. I'm hesitant, though, because I know that lots of people will probably disagree with some of what I say, and I really don't want to argue with people any more than I have to.

1. ( Ignore this kinda of topic) I resent that first statment about me being an extreme i think i should apologise or start by apologises i got way into the argument too >.>. But i still hold my oppinion that machines fine tune pieces or are used to add to a ochestra but are not able to recreate a ochestra but resemble it in the shadows. I.e nothing can beat Two steps from hell or Immediate choir and ochestra. Just i believe the fact is Ochestra synthesis is great for Amatures like us (No offense but at this stage were all amatuers or we would be Composing for ochestras or bands etc etc) Since we dont have knocking big ochestras hanging round.

2. I WOULD LOVE A TUTORIAL PLEASE MAKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just ignore people who disagree with it. And if they give some advice then great we all learnt some more. But a tutorial would be extremly nice.
All information learnt is handy to know just in case its needed.
3. Remberance Yeh people right sounds more like A churchy song although i wouldn't say it sounded like its played in a church. Its just has that stereotypical feel of a church. I think it sounds like its been recorded in a studio ..... Just plainly because instead of the instruments being to fine if you get what i mean..... But heh i dunno the church near us i only played in a Brass band so i guess ochestra couldnt sound diffrent.



4. Quartet.
sounds quite nice, but not one of the songs i think i would listen to on its own more like something you would have to have stimulation with. Like a video or a game etc etc.
Like maybe the image of a Soldier in the middle of a battle Looking up into the dark moonlight (wait im gonna cut of here thinking too much again sorry Dont wanna bore you with meaningless dribble "BACK TO THE POINT yes hmm em)

5. Wanna know if it would be okay if you showed the scores to your pieces. Wanna studdy them =D
The more you study other pieces the more you can understand where the artist is coming from.
Also it helps alot with finding out the relation from instruments to music written down. If you know what i mean.( Hmm Example: I play something on piano. Then when i try to right that down i cant seem to figure out The Length of the notes or what i should use. Found out studying scores helps with this as it shows the relation :p). Something i struggle with.
So it would be a great help if you could show the score Thank you....
 
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I'm attaching a revised version of the quartet with added non-harmonic tones and better samples. I got a little crazy with the V7 to 4-3 suspension things, but hey, I like 4-3 suspensions.

@Bramble: I'm not a grudgey person, though I do have no intention to continue said argument. Sonar doesn't have an option to export scores, though I can save it as a .midi file or create a .pdf of individual parts using a virtual printer.

Still, the staff notation feature in Sonar is great for writing out notes, but it's not good for reading them. I have to over-sustain notes in order to keep the strings sounding sustained, so I end up with sixteenth notes tied to everything. I messed with it and got them down to thirty-seconds, and then fixed that by setting the view so it doesn't show said notes, but then in the few places where I actually have them, they look weird. Oh well. And there are no dynamic markings or anything.

Anyway. I made a midi file, but the best I could do was collapse all the parts into one grand staff. It didn't keep my analysis, so if you're interested in doing too much studying, you'll probably have to add that yourself. I mostly stuck to basic chords, so don't expect anything crazy. You can probably open the file with any kind of free midi viewer.

Find the file here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?zv230p23asuqlao

I started a tutorial at one point, but the reason why I never finished was because, well, I can't really teach anyone how to do anything except sound good with Garritan or Studio Instruments. All samplers are different, and they have their own way of doing things. But in order to get sounds that you can actually make sound half-decent, you have to shell out cash, which most people probably aren't willing/able to do
 
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Yeh your right the notation is crazy on 1 stave. Oh well its studyable thanks =D. And i believe over hearing my music teacher going on about how even though when software basically screws up the reading part cause it takes everything literal you can make it normal again using some kinda step counter of somin. Oh well Thanks. Sad about the tutorial though D=.
 
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Your teacher might have been referring to the method where you play everything on keyboard and you have to quantize the input so that it appears readable on a staff. But I always write out everything in the staff view before I start doing too much with the instruments.

Basically the way I wrote it was:

1.) write out the melody
2.) pick chords that fit
3.) write the bass line
4.) fill in the harmony
5.) embellish the harmony with things like passing tones, V7 chords, and 4-3 suspensions

What I could do is write a brief tutorial on standard chord progressions, which I think is what a lot of people have problems with when they first start composing. They just write out stuff and hope it sounds good (mostly filling out harmony with triads based on the soprano).
 
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Thanks! I hope to do more things like "Remembrance," except a little more coherent, later on. It just takes forever setting up the whole dang orchestra, and then trying to micro-manage thirty different samplers.
 
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Attaching a draft of a new piece I started working on last week. Most of the piece before the end of the cello solo is fairly final, though I do want to do minor tweaks and tempo adjustments. From the end of the cello solo on, I still have a lot to do, but eh... I'll get to it eventually.
 
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I think minor keys are generally more beautiful, 'cause you have so many different chords to work with--though I will add that I don't really like ending pieces on a minor chord; I usually throw in a picardy third. Most chords in minor keys have more than one quality you can write them with, and you have fun progressions such as the phrygian half to play around with.

I'm designing a soundtrack to a few movie scenes for a college project. Maybe I'll post the music/scenes I do up here.
 
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I just listened to "Intro and Ternary in C Minor". Nice piece, especially the orchestration sounds nice to me and the melody is nice, too.

...I don't really like ending pieces on a minor chord; I usually throw in a picardy third. ...
Well, in this case you did not, and I it feels right for me.:thumbs_up:
Nevertheless, the ending sounds too unstable to me. I think it's because harmonies change fast and not very stringent (IV/V/IV/V) and the strings' final line upwards comes surprising. I think at least the last one can easily be "corrected" by inserting a general pause before it, probably even a complete bar. At least in my imagination, the ending is much stronger then, maybe you'd like to try this out. :wink:
Concerning the sound: Probably you already made the best out of your ressources, it generally sounds very nice. If the samples are good enough, I think you should try to feature the solo cello at about 1 minute a little more, I think it sounds too shy for carrying the melody at this time.

Thanks for posting the peace and I'm looking forward to your soundtrack music. :goblin_good_job:
 
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I finished a draft of the film score. .mov files are big and not easily uploadable here, so I'm dropping a youtube link into the description.

I just listened to "Intro and Ternary in C Minor". Nice piece, especially the orchestration sounds nice to me and the melody is nice, too.


Well, in this case you did not, and I it feels right for me.:thumbs_up:
Nevertheless, the ending sounds too unstable to me. I think it's because harmonies change fast and not very stringent (IV/V/IV/V) and the strings' final line upwards comes surprising. I think at least the last one can easily be "corrected" by inserting a general pause before it, probably even a complete bar. At least in my imagination, the ending is much stronger then, maybe you'd like to try this out. :wink:
Concerning the sound: Probably you already made the best out of your ressources, it generally sounds very nice. If the samples are good enough, I think you should try to feature the solo cello at about 1 minute a little more, I think it sounds too shy for carrying the melody at this time.

Thanks for posting the peace and I'm looking forward to your soundtrack music. :goblin_good_job:

I agree that the ending's kind of stank. The jumping back and forth to dominant and subdominant near the end is something that I've always meant to fix, but I never got around to it because... I dunno why.

As for why the ending is so abrupt, I started this piece with the intention of doing exactly what its title implies: an introduction and then a ternary section (form ABA'). I played the first draft of this piece as an example of romantic music to a class--and unfortunately, I had to rush to get it finished so that I could do that, so I ended up taking the form a bit too literally. ie, "ohay, that was A', let's end now!" Now that I've worked with it in this form for such a long time, it's difficult for me to go back and change the ending, as it sounds right, now.

(Also, adding in complete bars is surprisingly difficult and I'm lazy.)

ETA: the solo cello actually sounds pretty bad, to my ears at least. I didn't like that section at all when I first wrote it, but my general philosophy is that if something sounds bad, throw in a harp and it'll sound great. If I back off the harp and violins, you can easily hear how fake the cello sounds. (In retrospect: I bet if I'd done the solo with my Oxygen, it would've sounded better.)

the intro and outro stuff sounds like you're dying...but cool...how did you learn to compose ? I'm really struggling on that...

Take some theory. As for how I got the software and knowledge to be able to produce these kinds of pieces... well, I've been at it for five years so far, and I'm just getting to the point where I can make stuff that sounds good.

I did go to an elite arts school for one year of high school. I took theory there and got twenty times better. Take theory. Do it.
 
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... my general philosophy is that if something sounds bad, throw in a harp and it'll sound great. ...

:goblin_jawdrop:
That one is great. I'll try this out as soon as I am in that situation the next time! :grin::thumbs_up:

Concerning your score draft: not bad, I'm looking forward to the complete work (although I did not understand the movie until now... :vw_wtf:).
One thing that caught my ear and eye in a slightly confused way, especially in the bicycle riding scene in the street: Your music sounds as if it is in a concert hall. This reminds me of some events of silent cinema with live music, which actually were in a concert hall, but if want to score the movie fitting, I think you should also try to put the music into a room fitting to the scene; this much reverb in a street scene sounds strange to me.
 
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:goblin_jawdrop:
That one is great. I'll try this out as soon as I am in that situation the next time! :grin::thumbs_up:

Concerning your score draft: not bad, I'm looking forward to the complete work (although I did not understand the movie until now... :vw_wtf:).
One thing that caught my ear and eye in a slightly confused way, especially in the bicycle riding scene in the street: Your music sounds as if it is in a concert hall. This reminds me of some events of silent cinema with live music, which actually were in a concert hall, but if want to score the movie fitting, I think you should also try to put the music into a room fitting to the scene; this much reverb in a street scene sounds strange to me.

The movie's surrealistic, so it's not really supposed to make sense. ie, it has no plot--it's more like a dream. I figured that in my score I could emphasize the outlandish quality of the what's shown on-screen, while helping to give it a little direction. In retrospect, I wish I'd done a bit more with dissonance, but, /shrug.

I might give the lessening of reverb and see what it sounds like, especially with the piano part with the bikenunperson. Ideally, I'd like to have next to no reverb on the piano, but I don't have a pedal attachment so I have to fake a pedal with reverb. :/ Or drag out note sustains, but that's tedious and tiresome.

And there might not be a big second draft of this, at least, not before the project's due tomorrow. I'm getting distracted today with personal-life stuff and don't know if I'm going to be able to focus enough to do much other than write the paper.
 
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