The Kraken v 1.04

[WolfFarkas]

Reserved

Any comment, feedback, sugestion, critic will be welcome.

Status: fixing

v 1.04

 

[Panda]

Please do not rush on your terrain, it really looks rushed, take your time with it and it will make a difference.

There could be a lot more orange camps in the water areas as there is a lot of unused space there.

Also, when you do your ramps try to smooth them out so there not so jagged and weird looking.

The waterfalls is a good touch but I think it will make the fps go down a lot because of the movement but I'm not sure.

When placing creep camps, make it feel alive. Don't just put the in single file lines divided by some rock pillars, give it some depth too it.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

In spite of the map being pretty much flat, I found it to be pretty balanced. The drops are exactly what they should be and the building layout is also fine. Pathing and distances to players' bases are alright, there's no problem regarding being attacked randomly by creeps (well, maybe apart from the Red Mana Fountain Camp, I'd place it a bit deeper so that it doesn't attack units passing by).

As for the visuals, I'm afraid that the Kraken is rarely visible. I mean, it's visible at all times, but it's not moving unless it's within units' sight range, which rarely reaches the beast itself (the tentacles are easily seen and twitching, though). I'd suggest making the whirlpool a bit smaller so that it's possible for players to see the Kraken moving its maw.

As I said before, although the map seems pretty simple and plain. it is balanced and entertaining, though I think adding a few small isles here and there wouldn't be a bad idea, since the map is mostly covered by water - some variation would do it good. All in all, a map well done.

 

[deepstrasz]

1. Middle neutral building positioning looks weird.
2. Yeah, terrain pretty much flat.

What saves this map is some nifty visual parts and proper balance regulations as it doesn't really have much to show for.
Might work as an altered melee with an event that drags units towards the middle/kraken to kill them.

Approved.

==========================================

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[WolfFarkas]

Please do not rush on your terrain, it really looks rushed, take your time with it and it will make a difference.

There could be a lot more orange camps in the water areas as there is a lot of unused space there.

Also, when you do your ramps try to smooth them out so there not so jagged and weird looking.

The waterfalls is a good touch but I think it will make the fps go down a lot because of the movement but I'm not sure.

When placing creep camps, make it feel alive. Don't just put the in single file lines divided by some rock pillars, give it some depth too it.

In spite of the map being pretty much flat, I found it to be pretty balanced. The drops are exactly what they should be and the building layout is also fine. Pathing and distances to players' bases are alright, there's no problem regarding being attacked randomly by creeps (well, maybe apart from the Red Mana Fountain Camp, I'd place it a bit deeper so that it doesn't attack units passing by).

As for the visuals, I'm afraid that the Kraken is rarely visible. I mean, it's visible at all times, but it's not moving unless it's within units' sight range, which rarely reaches the beast itself (the tentacles are easily seen and twitching, though). I'd suggest making the whirlpool a bit smaller so that it's possible for players to see the Kraken moving its maw.

As I said before, although the map seems pretty simple and plain. it is balanced and entertaining, though I think adding a few small isles here and there wouldn't be a bad idea, since the map is mostly covered by water - some variation would do it good. All in all, a map well done.

1. Middle neutral building positioning looks weird.
2. Yeah, terrain pretty much flat.

What saves this map is some nifty visual parts and proper balance regulations as it doesn't really have much to show for.
Might work as an altered melee with an event that drags units towards the middle/kraken to kill them.

Approved.

==========================================

Always check/recheck the Map Submission Rules! (Map Submission Rules)

A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.

If you want more reviews, come here:
The Grand Review Exchange!

I uploaded this map in this state for two-three reasons

1) I got out of ideas of what to do with this (terrain and doodads things), so basically I wanted to read your feedback.
2) I wanted to know if it is balanced enough ( I am surprised my self with the balance ).
3) I Wanted to know the value of the map as it is, if it worth work what I have or start from 0.

I didn´t expected to be approved, good news for me , right now I am not shure what to do, the idea of more islands is interesting, your feedback helped me a lot, now I see where to focus.
I used 4300 doodads, now I see that to have better terrain that number must increase 2000 more at least ,

This is my first sunken ruins terrain, so I recognice my lack of experience in this kind of terrain and doodads, (I miss my underground and the colored cristals XD)

I am going to improve this to a 1.01 version with many of your sugestions.

thanks guys, you are a lot of help


edit: 1.01 I fixed many things see changelog, but I am still working on this, I have to finish the decor of the new areas and improve the water parts, but I think I am going in the right direction

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

The map looks much more interesting with the islands having been implemented. However, I feel like you could use some tile variation on the island, maybe some vegetation coming out of the cracks in marble? Maybe use the terrain to make those marble islands look weary and old, destroyed by both the Kraken and time itself. Do not use the picture below as reference it just more or less shows what I mean - just make the islands more interesting.


The layout makes the map a bit more complex, which is good; I like the placement of waygates, though I find its teleportation method a bit confusing - normally, the teleporation region is placed directly under the Waygate, yet yours is in front of it. It's not that big of an issue, it justs feels weird.

Also, I forgot to tell you about the Mercenary Camp before - it's too powerful; being able to get Makrura Deepseer that summons units and has Entagle is huge and you can actually get two if you can afford it. Moreover, other Mercenaries are also nothing to be scoffed at - the turtle is pretty much a Troll Berserker, Makrura Snapper performs a role of an Ogre Brute and Mur'gul Snarecaster has Slow and Abolish Magic. Being able to obtain such powerful mercs, paired with the fact that there are two Mercenary Camps near players' bases means that games might often result in sudden pushes with game-ending potential. I'd suggest nerfing the Mercenary Camp in some way - maybe increase costs and cooldowns a bit or exchange some of the mercs with their weaker counterparts (I think it'd be best if you switched Makrura Deepser to Tidecaller as the latter fits the same role that a Shadow Priest does in regular Lordaeron tilesets). That way, the mercenary part of the map can be kept without the stress of having to fight over an insane unit with Entangle.

 

[deepstrasz]

I like the placement of waygates

Just make sure you don't enable super annoying fast tower rushes.

 

[MysteryMaze]

I'm away from home and I can't check the map, but I wanted to tell you that the number of doodads used and the aesthetic value of a map does not always pararell.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

@deepstrasz I don't think the Waygates will help with tower rushing since their placement makes them more useful when it comes to going between expansions.

I checked this possible problem and the Militia have around 5 seconds left before expiring so even with the Waygates the travel distance to the starting locations is fine in my opinion.

 

[WolfFarkas]

The map looks much more interesting with the islands having been implemented. However, I feel like you could use some tile variation on the island, maybe some vegetation coming out of the cracks in marble? Maybe use the terrain to make those marble islands look weary and old, destroyed by both the Kraken and time itself. Do not use the picture below as reference it just more or less shows what I mean - just make the islands more interesting.
View attachment 287678

The layout makes the map a bit more complex, which is good; I like the placement of waygates, though I find its teleportation method a bit confusing - normally, the teleporation region is placed directly under the Waygate, yet yours is in front of it. It's not that big of an issue, it justs feels weird.

Also, I forgot to tell you about the Mercenary Camp before - it's too powerful; being able to get Makrura Deepseer that summons units and has Entagle is huge and you can actually get two if you can afford it. Moreover, other Mercenaries are also nothing to be scoffed at - the turtle is pretty much a Troll Berserker, Makrura Snapper performs a role of an Ogre Brute and Mur'gul Snarecaster has Slow and Abolish Magic. Being able to obtain such powerful mercs, paired with the fact that there are two Mercenary Camps near players' bases means that games might often result in sudden pushes with game-ending potential. I'd suggest nerfing the Mercenary Camp in some way - maybe increase costs and cooldowns a bit or exchange some of the mercs with their weaker counterparts (I think it'd be best if you switched Makrura Deepser to Tidecaller as the latter fits the same role that a Shadow Priest does in regular Lordaeron tilesets). That way, the mercenary part of the map can be kept without the stress of having to fight over an insane unit with Entangle.

Yeah I said in the description in my reserved post and in the edit that:
I am still working on this, I know the platforms requerire more terrain and things, I am still working on the terrain and the doodads, this was just to fix some things (not all of them)

you have me completly confused, the mercenary camps are defended with hidras 2 level 6 and 1 level 3, so are you talking about the mana fountains? gonna vm you about that balance thing

I'm away from home and I can't check the map, but I wanted to tell you that the number of doodads used and the aesthetic value of a map does not always pararell.

yeah not always, this one is the case

Just make sure you don't enable super annoying fast tower rushes.

yeah I will consider that

@deepstrasz I don't think the Waygates will help with tower rushing since their placement makes them more useful when it comes to going between expansions.

I checked this possible problem and the Militia have around 5 seconds left before expiring so even with the Waygates the travel distance to the starting locations is fine in my opinion.

5 secs, okay , so I have to kill 2 secs and will be fine, thanks for the feedback,

 

[mafe]

So, from a gameplay point of view, the map is quite good. Regarding the visuals, maybe more tilest variations in the shallow water are could also improve the visuals. On the highground, you could draw some interesting patterns with the various "round field" tile (or whatever it is called in english), that might even be enough without any additional doodads.

Regarding gameplay:
-Creepcamps and drops and distances are good; the only issue I see are the expanions (see below)
-For the merccamps, I'm not sure. It might work out as the problematic deepseer creeps take a long time to become available. Whatever you do here, someone will complain. Another option is to go with a laboratory instead.
-Whatever you do, you should make it possible to either build a farm at both camps (recommended) or at none, but right now one can build a farm in the south but not in the north. Also nightelves would certainly be thankful for a tree nearby to have wisp for easy access.
-The same also holds for the taverns.
-The expansion would more clearly "belong" to one player. There are at least three factors that go against fastexpanding: Long distance for militia, easy to reach for enemy, strong creeps. However, at least the enemy needs to scout where you want to expand. As it stands, I would expect any human to veto this map vs undead.
-There is only one access to the sea giants and turtle creep stops, which therefore can turn into a trap. Here is screen how I would consider redesigning this map to have some more interestingpathing
options, but of course this is also a question of personal preference.

-Having these 3 creep camps in line with a neutral building in the middle at each side of the map look a bit unnatural. Maybe you can move a few of them inwards; for example the crabs could placed have-way between the spawns and the current position of the taverns, near the ships.

 

[WolfFarkas]

1)So, from a gameplay point of view, the map is quite good. Regarding the visuals, maybe more tilest variations in the shallow water are could also improve the visuals. On the highground, you could draw some interesting patterns with the various "round field" tile (or whatever it is called in english), that might even be enough without any additional doodads.

Regarding gameplay:
2-Creepcamps and drops and distances are good; the only issue I see are the expanions (see below)
3-For the merccamps, I'm not sure. It might work out as the problematic deepseer creeps take a long time to become available. Whatever you do here, someone will complain. Another option is to go with a laboratory instead.
4-Whatever you do, you should make it possible to either build a farm at both camps (recommended) or at none, but right now one can build a farm in the south but not in the north. Also nightelves would certainly be thankful for a tree nearby to have wisp for easy access.
5-The same also holds for the taverns.
6-The expansion would more clearly "belong" to one player. There are at least three factors that go against fastexpanding: Long distance for militia, easy to reach for enemy, strong creeps. However, at least the enemy needs to scout where you want to expand. As it stands, I would expect any human to veto this map vs undead.
7-There is only one access to the sea giants and turtle creep stops, which therefore can turn into a trap. Here is screen how I would consider redesigning this map to have some more interestingpathing
options, but of course this is also a question of personal preference.

8-Having these 3 creep camps in line with a neutral building in the middle at each side of the map look a bit unnatural. Maybe you can move a few of them inwards; for example the crabs could placed have-way between the spawns and the current position of the taverns, near the ships.

1) yeah I am still working on it
2) thanks
3) I will use lordaeron summer like in swamped temple
4) yeah terrain is still on working, gonna check with P
5) the scout ability of course
6) okey, I will ask you because I am not understanding XD
7) yeah workig on that a second path, to avoid traps
8)I will study if I can move something


thanks for the feedback

edit:
updated
v 1.03 see change log

well I think now is more decent, thanks again everybody

1.04
- goldmines are less defended so humans can expand more fast against undead.

 

[Panda]

Looks a lot better, good work.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Looks a lot better, good work.

thanks

I worked the enviroment in the 1.03 long a go, this is just to low goldmine creep level so humans can expand more quickly and have more chance against undead.

 

[master Gul'dan]

Nice 5/5.