The EU debate thread

[VeljkoM]

If only other nationalist separatist movements were as smart as Scottish people. Also I thought threat was that USA will invade neutral Scotland for oil. Hey makes sense as much as Russians invading.

 

[Footman16]

Nope. Wrong, I voted no because I don't believe in the pursuit of narrow-minded views that Nationalism represents. Nationalism should never rule our decisions. Unity is the way forward not division. It was more ethical reasoning as there was little citation used by either side. I also took a bit of a long term view of it. We may have had the oil for 10, 20, 30 or 80 years (depending upon who you believe) but what about after that?

In answer to your "fallacy" you said "NATO claiming that Scotland would be vulnerable to a Russian invasion. Really, now. And sadly, idiots bought such stupidity. " Which implies it is one of many or no other reasons why people voted no but for the majority of us sidelined that argument for things like health, jobs etc and NATO/defence became a very small part of the debate.

 

[Footman16]

Good. Young apprentice, you could be a politician one day. You just need to throw in some more ad hominem and presto!

I doubt I'd be a "young apprentice" I'm no political expert either but in the words of Paul Simon - "I know what I know". Also ad hominem is so childish and I think I used enough of it in response to your previous comments.

 

[Footman16]

Don't you think it's a bit ironic; that you were preaching draconian restrictions against freedom of speech -- and yet, for simply calling me a git, you were censored?

As someone of Scottish descent, I urge you to awake brother and to expel the invaders from Albion the Great.

I don't think Pharoah was aware of the reference you made or the severity of it but I do agree that what I said was in violation of this site's rules, as were yours so, no it's not ironic.

As someone who is actually Scottish I'd ask you to realize what actually matters to a country and to you and I doubt it's making inappropriate statements on a Warcraft 3 modding community forum.

 

[VeljkoM]

So since this is rather unique event to have two Scots each representing pro and anti separatist movement can you two tell me what exactly so bad to remain in Great Britain or why is it good for Scotland to separate itself. I am curious to hear real people and not some biased articles or news.

 

[Footman16]

Anti-seperatism: Realizing it's better for countries to work together and to work towards uniting everyone of every race, creed and colour for everyone's betterment.

Pro-Seperatism: You historically live there, I historically live here we can't possibly be under the one umbrella or country that's dumb and I want complete control over myself.

^This is why I disagree with the Nationalist cause, it's simply illogical to believe that separating us from each other based on geo-political lines is the correct way to go on. There's nothing bad with remaining in the UK except from the fact that right now we have a tory government we (Scotland as the majority) didn't vote for. Come election times in may though Labour's set up to win and I believe in Ed Milliband's policies as I have first hand experience of Labour's plans and my brother (who is a member) is very up-to-date with everything there doing and what it means.

That and Alex Salmond's plans would never have worked. Tax breaks don't make jobs. Oil that's running out and already being privately drilled for doesn't make all your problems go away. Wind farms cannot sustain a country's energy needs. And having £1.6 billion missing in your plan to get Scotland into a prosperous new era isn't a smart idea.

UKIP are another example of Separatist movements that won't work.

 

[E.M.C]

I'd personally label EU as the necessary evil. The idea behind it is not bad, but the execution is another matter entirely. For small, unimportant countries such as mine, there is no alternative other that to succumb to some greater power, and in that respect EU seems to be the lesser evil. Now if only it would stop being the obedient puppy of the US, and start making its own unique foreign policy...

 

[Footman16]

Explain the foreign policy?

 

[E.M.C]

What's there to explain? When Uncle Sam says jump, EU asks how high. You'd be hard pressed to find an important issue on where the two "nations" disagree. Whether we're talking about wikileaks, Julian Assange, Snowden & Prism (it's funny how there were zero consequences for US for spying on EU countries, just try to imagine it happening the other way around), and of course, the Russia-Ukraine crisis. If my memory serves me well, I remember an incident where an EU country forcibly grounded a plane of a Bolivian (or some other South American) president to search it for Assange. Now if that doesn't scream America's Lapdog, I don't know what does.

 

[Nuclear]

The Bolivian president's plane incident was funny. What if Snowden had been on board? Would they have called in the SWAT and breached the president's plane forcibly? What kind of a diplomatic disaster would that have been.

 

[E.M.C]

It's funny, but also pretty fucking ridiculous at the same time. And potentially very dangerous. I'm sure that if he was boarded on the plane they would have just ignored any diplomatic customs, and seized him on the spot to appease the US masters.