Terrainings nice but....

[demonsofdante]

people seem to only look at the models. Although they make a picture look great, its doesnt quite demonstrate the talent of the terrainer. I see a lot of great terrain pictures here, but many of them rely solely on some imported model. Im not called those that use high res models and amazing effects are cheap and untalented, but it does cover up the true potential of a terrainer.


I say everyone make a terrain, using ONLY blizzard models. And showcase it here to show everyone what youre really capable of when youre using the same tools and objects as everyone else.

 

[Sven]

but blizzards' models are rather unrealistic

 

[demonsofdante]

well take that into consideration when youre looking at their terrain. so what its not perfect, look at how well they used what was given to them.

 

[Sven]

well if you can be given custom models, then why not use them?

 

[Kimbo]

2 types of terraining, the use of graphics(custom models) ,and the use of manipulation(the skill to be able to manipulate non customed terrain at their highest peak)

both show a use of skill. So neither is void.

hmm.. maybe i wrong, dunno, just sounds smart...

 

[Deckboy]

Terraining is much more that just the models that someone puts into the map. Sure, there are some terrainers who only pust good models in their maps and the rest is just flat ground, and uninteresting.

Not everyone can use imported models to make a good terrain. (trust me it's a lot harder than it looks) A good terrain requires a good deal of thought and careful placement of each and every thing that inhabits the map.

Blizzard has a great deal of models in their map. A GREAT deal. But still there is a limit in the number and the variety. What is great about imported models is that they are quite possible the easiest way to enhance a terrain.
For instance take the blizzard tree models. When looked at from the normal wc3 camera perspective they look great. But tilt the camera in at an angle and they look horrendous. I personally try to import models to give it that "feel" I was looking for or to try to enhance my terrain a way the Blizzard models can not.

I will agree, however that there is a sense of something that we have maybe lost in our terraining methods. When we do not have the "perfect" model for the terrain we were trying to make, and we find an imported model that fits we, in a way, cop out of the creative process.
For instance, when we have no "perfect" model that we(as terrainers) are forced to combine/raise/compensate with the models that we DO have - thus forcing us to get creative.

I have seen few people who were/are able to do this as the legendary Beam who occasionally pops up now and then at the wc3campaigns forums. He, in my mind is the best terrainer I have ever seen. Not for his great terrains, but for his amazing creativity.

I hope this helps and - please do read that.

-Deck

 

[Bob27]

Terraining is much more that just the models that someone puts into the map. Sure, there are some terrainers who only pust good models in their maps and the rest is just flat ground, and uninteresting.

Ahh yes I remember when I used to do that, and when I only used about 3 different tiles in a map

But I think custom models are a very good thing to use in a map, as long as they are used right. Look at some of my old terrains for example, some of them looked terrible becauseit was just a custom tree with no tile variation, small doodads or anything. Now I still use alot of custom models, but because I have practiced more and tryed a few tutorials my terrains look much better. So you still do need some skill to make a map with custom models look good.

 

[demonsofdante]

wasnt beam the guy that made that entire wooden ship out of tables? thats the kind of terraining i enjoy.

Im in no way condoning the use of models and i love finding great ones and putting them to use. But now that i come here i see so many people advertising their terrains getting praises for them but hte only thing that makes them look good is the custom models. And because people just make models or import ones that work for them willy nilly, a creative touch is lost in working with the materials that you have and compromising for those you dont.

One of the main thing see are tree imports, and those i can understand, but have you tried using other models and putting them together to look like trees? Try making a few bushes and elongating them to look like branches

Compromise, get those creative juices flowing.
Someone should start doing those terrain challenges once again. Where youre expected to make a terrain of a specific object, OR with specific doodads, OR with a specific type of doodad (IE Table-Ship)

 

[Killer_Mushroom]

I submitted a contest relevant to this at the Arena, if anybody is interested.

 

[Deckboy]

If I find the time I may enter that contest.

I remember those day too bob =D=D(thank goodness you're past those stages)

Well, since Bob did it himself I will as well: Look at some of his old terrains - they don't look all that great with the custom models.(bob would you mind finding one of those and uploading it as an example please? thanks.) And NOW look at him. Although not perfect, Bob has grown in his terraining skills and is now quite good at using imported models and making them look good inhis maps.(can you upload one of these too? Thanks.)

I fully support the use of imported models. I believe it brings wc3 that much closer to the best it can be.

-Deck

 

[demonsofdante]

I also support the use of it. I simply made this thread commenting on how much they are used now to compensate for lackluster terraining skills.

I never intended to give the impression that i dont enjoy the use of custom models. and i feel i never did. But thats all people seem to be commenting on.

Im just saying, give everyone an even playing field and we get a better idea about peoples talents

 

[Deckboy]

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post then. Consider this my formal apology.

 

[Bob27]

Ok well heres a picture of an old and new terrain.

Old Terrain
View attachment 1496View attachment 1497

New Terrain
View attachment 1498View attachment 1499

 

[demonsofdante]

Youre right they do look a lot better. I think im going to stop responding to this thread, as i feel it is going nowhere and my point was misinterpreted. I also feel as though i presumed too much and I need to start terraining more myself to understand what makes a terrain great.

To me it used to be something that made me think "Wow, how did he do that?". and i usually only considered extensively or excessively detailed terrain as great.

I did not have the appreciation for simpler works, despite being done with the same detail and talent. I did not used to look at placement and use for objects within the picture, just what it all became and how detailed it was.

To be honest Bob, when i first saw your new terrain i thought "oh its a river, nothing special. No waterfalls, mountains,cities or temples." Then i realized that all you meant to show was a river, and that you made that river very well.

 

[Deckboy]

That is VERY well said. . .

Btw thanks Bob!

 

[The_wand_mirror]

people seem to only look at the models. Although they make a picture look great, its doesnt quite demonstrate the talent of the terrainer. I see a lot of great terrain pictures here, but many of them rely solely on some imported model. Im not called those that use high res models and amazing effects are cheap and untalented, but it does cover up the true potential of a terrainer.


I say everyone make a terrain, using ONLY blizzard models. And showcase it here to show everyone what youre really capable of when youre using the same tools and objects as everyone else.

Blizzard used terrain would never look like a terrain with custom models,but thats just the point of warcraft. ppl made these models to make warcraft look more realistic or more beatiful.
As you can see it suits my rpg ( shards of power - role playing game ) very well because when i had done it with blizzard models it wouldnt have looked the same,models are for atmosphere like giving you the feeling not to play warcraft but a totaly other game

But yeah,models indeed cover alot and the screenies i made where 'As-nice-as-possible' because you want to present your map/terrain good and attract ppl to download and play it so your work wasnt for nothing....

EDIT - I dont have the skill yet to create all these things like 'tempels' and 'boats' out of warcraft doodads because i aint that artistic yet,but i will try and experimentate with them sometime xD

 

[Rui]

Hum, I rarely use custom models. VERY rarely. Blizzard's models may be unrealistic but Canopy Trees were a good expansion-addition.

 

[Deckboy]

I generally tend to change from terrain project to terrain project on whether or not I use many custom imports. it all depends on the feel I'm trying to convey.

If I want something that looks like wc3 I will stick with Blizzard models and imported models that have a very "wc3" feel to them. If I'm trying for something else, then I find the things necessary to convey that message.(for instance I might use b2m's models to make a castle or something)

-Deck