[Suggestion]: put penalties on powerlevelling and boosting

[Jumbo]

Hello.
I think experience gain from being near heroes 10 or more lvls above you should be dramatically reduced to 50% or even 20% or 10%. Game is being ruined by our own kindness. It allows people who don't deserve it to get great gear and high lvls for no effort. Also, in my opinion, only people close to a boss fight should be able to take the dropped items.

Suggestions more specifically:
-Reduce xp gain for low lvl players who are in a medium range of high lvls (more than 9 lvls above)
-another way to fix it could be based on mob lvl instead - a lvl 1 player kills a lvl 1 mob with his friend who is lvl 11. Since the mob is 10 lvls lower than the friend, the lvl 1 player gains reduced xp.

-items dropped from bosses can only be picked up by players within xp range at the time of the kill. Low lvls can still get item boosts but they will have to stay near the fight (making closed fights like the Overseer impossible for them to gain items from. This makes boosting a more tiresome and less effortless process.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Agree 100%. Zwieb if you think this would split up the community too much, note that it's far more enjoyable to roll new heroes and party up with new players than AFK-follow tag them.

 

[Ira]

-items dropped from bosses can only be picked up by players within xp range at the time of the kill. Low lvls can still get item boosts but they will have to stay near the fight (making closed fights like the Overseer impossible for them to gain items from. This makes boosting a more tiresome and less effortless process.

that would be really bad if you die in a bossfight anbd dont get ressed before the fight ends, since you are not there when the boss dies, also what if you reincarnate yourself and try to come back to the fight and it dies while youre away i think this could be really bad

 

[Decent]

Dont like this idea.
Simple bot game on Bnet basicly have:
1. Afk all time (you know who)
2. 50lvl load
3. 20-40 lvl players
4. few noobs
Its ok if you loaded 20-40 lvl hero cuz you can just farm exp with merc/with other player. Its ok too if you are total newb/started new and there is a one/few same lowlvl players, you have party to try dungeon/bosses to avoid grind mobs&quests. But often game is like few 50 and 1 low/mid lvl hero who cant do most things except mob farm. So 50lvls going to farm brood/garg etcc and 1 low/mid hero do nothing (if you are thief/magician its a pain to solo lvl without any merc). You always can tell go find new game and find players to play with, but wait if im 50 and i see that someone cant do anything with his current class (not every class can solo grind, again) why cant i help him until he get decent gear and lvl.
Gaias ORPG IS NOT MMORPG.

 

[Ethical]

-1 for this idea.

1) In the first place, afk following already has negative effects of not being able to move from dungeon to the outside world. You are limited to farming the outside world.

2) merely boosting means you dont learn the game. Regardless how good your gear or class is, having 0 knowledge on bosses will destroy you ultimately.

3) tell people that you are helping not to afk? Boosting is a choice and you were the one who agreed to help them anyway.

4) most of the time boosting by me or a friend is done in d3 leveling souls which seems to be a fairly effective method. Putting a penalty on this kind of teamplay seems stupid and redundant.

5) sometimes when boosting a new player, one of us would be running around farming foothills bosses or accidentally encounter a rare offhand drop when farming foothills creep. Sometimes the item may be suitable for the new player so why not let him have it anyway?

Most of the problems you described seem to come from playing with unenthusiastic ex-twilighteve orpg players who has no idea what the concept of a basic rpg is. This can be avoided by simply not playing with them. By imposing such a penalty you also penalise people trying to do stuff like level souls or new chars.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I'm not sure about this.

I can actually understand where both sides are coming from. One the one hand, I understand how getting trained can ruin the game experience, but on the other hand, people should have the right to decide on their own wether they want their fun ruined or not.
I mean; there are already incentives to rolling a new character to help other lowlevel players instead of using your high to train: leveling up your souls.


And if you have a collection of max level souls already, then I'd say you are a hopeless addict.



All in all, my verdict on this (unless someone really brings a very good argument):
The grass is always greener on the other side; and as long as the community is torn about this, I'd say we should stick to the status quo before we calm one side just to upset the other.


However, there will certainly be more content in the future to allow highlevel and lowlevel players to play together. The procedural dungeon will probably be the most important one.

I can't wait starting to work on this once 1.2C is done.

 

[Ethical]

unless someone really brings a very good argument

my 5 points stated totally refuted Jumbo's ideas already so I consider this a very good argument.

As you mentioned, people can decide whether to ruin their own game or not. Similarly I can pick a bishop, never heal and just spam CC and SS and go "hurr shit dps sorc is best class". If a player wants to limit their own potential by being stupid or lazy, they should suffer the consequences.

 

[Jumbo]

that would be really bad if you die in a bossfight anbd dont get ressed before the fight ends, since you are not there when the boss dies, also what if you reincarnate yourself and try to come back to the fight and it dies while youre away i think this could be really bad

This is of course something that is easily countered and actually makes fights better: Having your tombstone close to the fight counts equally as being near the boss. To counter dying on purpose from now on tombstones will only stay for 2 minutes after which the ressurection will happen automatically. This easily prevents that problem.

@Kamina: Agreed. Loading low lvl is easily better.

@Ethical: you are writing like it's actually a bad thing if people can't fully exploit afking.


If you guys actually carefully read the original post you would realise that:
Boosting is still possible, there are just soft counters and favorized xp gains in place to secure more fairness and less abusing. Also to make people actually play instead of just wanting flashy rewards (i.e. items & high lvl). Also you can easily load a lvl 18 to help a lvl 9 and it will still be a great advantage for the lvl 9 player.

Zwieb I don't see 2 sides on this. I am not suggesting to remove boosting, merely to prevent abusing the game. Ira had a good point, but these are specifics about how to make the systems work.

As for the other comments: they come from ppl who see afking and abusing as constructive to the game environment - how this can be considered a 'side' I don't know.

 

[Ethical]

How is boosting considered abuse? As I mentioned before, if you afk follow you are limited to the outside world and unable to get items from dungeons. Some class quests require you to have a minimum amount of gear before attempting so people who afk will ultimately be at a disadvantage. At the same time, afking with people around you same level will result in you being excluded from rolls when an item drops (unless its something only you need). Either way, the current system already addresses these issues which you mentioned earlier.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Again, 100% behind Jombu on this. I can't understand why any argument for AFK-following can even be considered. It shouldn't be a thing at all.

Game-ruining AFK'ers can be vote-kicked from the bot so that isn't an issue.

1) In the first place, afk following already has negative effects of not being able to move from dungeon to the outside world. You are limited to farming the outside world.

This is even worse. Dungeon runs should be encouraged. Nowadays the majority of casual players don't even enter dungeons because they can't be afk-follow boosted through it (or the follower specifically tells them to not enter any dungeons to avoid splitting the follow). All current dungeons are technically skippable.

2) merely boosting means you dont learn the game. Regardless how good your gear or class is, having 0 knowledge on bosses will destroy you ultimately.

EXACTLY. This is what we deal with for the majority of players coming into foothills. They suck. Completely, they usually have no idea how to fight bosses effectively even when we tell them precisely how the boss works.
So they just end up leeching, because our lvl50s can clear foothills as duo (and some as solo).

3) tell people that you are helping not to afk? Boosting is a choice and you were the one who agreed to help them anyway.

We're going to help no-matter what. And if the players can choose to get help from high level characters instead of new rolls, ofcourse they'll just the highs. The people willing to play normally through lowlevel content instead of get heavily boosted are in the far minority because the time saved is so huge.

4) most of the time boosting by me or a friend is done in d3 leveling souls which seems to be a fairly effective method. Putting a penalty on this kind of teamplay seems stupid and redundant.

Souls were meant to encourage low-mid level content playthroughs not this brain-dead d3 grinding by highlvls.

5) sometimes when boosting a new player, one of us would be running around farming foothills bosses or accidentally encounter a rare offhand drop when farming foothills creep. Sometimes the item may be suitable for the new player so why not let him have it anyway?

Because he does not deserve it and will never understand how much he's just leeched. The impact of gaining that item will never be as great as if it had dropped while he'd been playing there. I don't see how losing this "leeching feature" could possibly be bad for the game.

Most of the problems you described seem to come from playing with unenthusiastic ex-twilighteve orpg players who has no idea what the concept of a basic rpg is. This can be avoided by simply not playing with them. By imposing such a penalty you also penalise people trying to do stuff like level souls or new chars.

That's because most players only know war3 RPGs as trashy old stuff like Teve. We need to show them a better way than just following some high lvls around and just leeching everything. Why do we need to avoid those players? They could potentially be great players if given the chance to learn.

You clearly don't understand how souls and new chars are meant to be played. You're too caught up in how to get to the end-point rather than enjoying the journey. This is because all you've known is boosting and getting boosted. This is what awaits most players coming into the game now.

Incentivizing group play for a level range can only be a good thing for the map and community. Item leeching... I don't know. I don't particularly mind it, but a lot of players feel pressured to pass items because it's possible, even though they don't feel the leecher deserves it.

 

[Ethical]

We're going to help no-matter what.

Like I mentioned, this is a choice. You feel obliged to help lazy people, I dont.

Souls were meant to encourage low-mid level content playthroughs not this brain-dead d3 grinding by highlvls.

If this were entirely true, then zwieb should have done something about it when he made souls available in the game. Re-rolling new chars to level souls seem really boring to me since you are just replaying old content over and over again. D3 farming on the other hand, has added benefit to get more potentially good blue souls.

Because he does not deserve it and will never understand how much he's just leeched.

This would be true if the said player only intended to play one character AND coincidentally had his offhand dropped for him while others are away farming. Having said that, various foothills creeps drop the same kinds of offhands. So are you saying if Im farming 38 bears and a friend is farming in the 41 beasts/42 bears area for contaminated horns and pure sapphire drops, I am not entitled to it?

You clearly don't understand how souls and new chars are meant to be played. You're too caught up in how to get to the end-point rather than enjoying the journey. This is because all you've known is boosting and getting boosted.

Interesting. Have we played together before? I dont recall having you ever in my games and vice versa. Saying this is like saying "you dont play gaias so I will just assume you play like this and that because you never used my bot".

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

This would be true if the said player only intended to play one character AND coincidentally had his offhand dropped for him while others are away farming. Having said that, various foothills creeps drop the same kinds of offhands. So are you saying if Im farming 38 bears and a friend is farming in the 41 beasts/42 bears area for contaminated horns and pure sapphire drops, I am not entitled to it?

That wouldn't be leeching, and it's part of why I said I wasn't sure about restricting item drops. It would be too difficult for a system to determine what a player does and does not deserve.

Interesting. Have we played together before? I dont recall having you ever in my games and vice versa. Saying this is like saying "you dont play gaias so I will just assume you play like this and that because you never used my bot".

Maybe, maybe not. I probably wouldn't remember you. You are just arguing mainly to keep boosting and leeching techniques so I have to assume you've never enjoyed the game any other way.

 

[Ethical]

You're not getting it are you? As I've mentioned before leeching can be easily stopped by saying "Do not leech off me or else I can/will kick you". Retaining persistent players in your game is also your choice, and you are compelled to help them ultimately. Similarly, you can also decide whether a player deserves a drop based on how hard you work on it. No need for a new system like that.

If anyone have bothered to scroll this far in this semi-meaningless thread, they would've noticed that what I mentioned is still valid. Asking for a change to the game according to one player's desires simply does not hold enough to substantiate your argument.

You are just arguing mainly to keep boosting and leeching techniques so I have to assume you've never enjoyed the game any other way.

Then your assumptions are dead wrong. Read what I've posted so far. Discussing this is meaningless as it seems you are too stubborn to move away from your own ideal. I will not argue further on this case and you are free to express yourself in any way you like.

 

[Jumbo]

@Zwiebelchen: still no argument has been produced against Kaminas and my own point.
You see, it's the same thing all over again that we had with the 'This is not an MMO' argument.

No, of course it isn't, but it is a MULTIPLAYER ONLINE BASED RPG. If it was some singleplayer sandbox game no one would care how you abused the game, but doing such things in Gaias affects everyone in the community. This is why restrictions are necessary.

 

[Jumbo]

Sorry for double posting:
It appears that some people take it very personally what goes on in this thread. So much so that they have to insult me in Garena

"upupupupupu says (20:30):
delusional idiot
wonder if any of your ideas were ever implemented since you started talking about them years ago

Jombu - Zerker 50 says (22:08):
Huh? Nice insulting mate

upupupupupu says (22:08):
either you fail to read whats going on in the entire thread or you are too consumed in your own little world
delusional isnt an insult. it describes you perfectly
"

 

[Ethical]

Now you're going off topic and trying to start a flame war. If this was a private message, why bother posting it here? Take this into private messaging and do not clog up the forums with stuff like that.

 

[Jumbo]

Starting a flame war, come on?. I'm just shocked that anyone would private PM me with insults like this on Garena over this thread. And look what he is writing, it's not just for this one thing. He is basically saying that everything I ever said (over the past few years) in these forums is crap. How could I not need to react? No intention of starting any war whatsoever. Let's get back on topic like you said.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

Ehhh.
I think the problem is that there are basically no new Gaias players. This makes it difficult to start new "legitimately" since only a couple classes can solo. People are unwilling to start from lvl 1 again when they already have every character at a high level.

 

[Ethical]

Regardless, this counts as an intrusion of privacy between two parties since it seemed there was no mutual agreement that the private conversation be allowed in a public place like a forum.

Glad you decided to be back on topic. As you can see my points mentioned previously are still valid and I am waiting for someone with a good or sensible enough argument. Otherwise, nothing to see here.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

Wtf? There's no right to privacy when messaging someone on Garena. They never agreed that they wouldn't share it.

 

[Jumbo]

Ehhh.
I think the problem is that there are basically no new Gaias players. This makes it difficult to start new "legitimately" since only a couple classes can solo. People are unwilling to start from lvl 1 again when they already have every character at a high level.

This is where the soul system kicks in. This is also the reason why it makes sense to load a lvl 19 if you are playing with lvl 19 people.

Trust me, there are still many new Gaias players. They just don't join the bots at the same time, making it seem like there aren't many.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

How does the soul system encourage choosing a level 1? Higher level enemies give more soul XP, so it makes more sense to load a level 35 and go through the Razormane area (and reload when you level too much) than to choose a new and go from level 1. I was able to max out my magic soul really quickly doing that.

(edit) And higher level enemies drop more blue souls -> more incentive to focus on them rather than low levels.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Yes, but that's just grinding. Sure, some players are into that but Gaias was never meant to be a hardcore grinding game. Going from level 1 with a team is much more enjoyable.

Regardless, this suggestion has nothing to do with you farming pigs for yourself. Hell, there's no party at all involved there.

About there being no low level players... what nonsense. I was just in a game with new/returning players playing from low till 20 (gaugole and JackBlaze)
Other players (some new, some lost all codes) that joined us over the past week:

• holythecrusader
• legoran987
• withouttaboo
• luke_069
• lightshard

We played from low with them and had a great time running with a party (also maxed 2 souls). The new players learnt the game well. Now compare this to how things would have gone if they met the average high level boosters... walk around doing nothing much for a couple hours while u watch a dude 1/2-shot everything, "wow this map is gorgeous but easy and kinda boring". Ofcourse, they'll level much quicker this way, I guess you're thinking that the ends justify the means. Then they show up for foothills runs with absolutely no idea how to conduct themselves in a boss fight.

Well, Jombu and I have said our piece I think. As usual, not much logical discussion took place, just a bunch of flame and offhand dismissal because people don't want their precious get-rich-quick abuse techniques to go away. This post will most likely be met with more flame and offhand dismissal and then the thread will wither away and die. Such is life in Gaia's forum.

 

[Jumbo]

That is, unless Zwieb decides to fix it.

Also you made a very good point about the new player impression: getting boosted excessively is more likely to cause no-returning newcomers than letting them experience the game for real.

 

[GasQueen]

My opinion is that if you don't want any AFK players to right-click you, just votekick them or (alternatively) kill their heroes. I guess that if newcomers start the game just by doing a right-click on someone that loads a lvl50 character, they're just not worth the while explaining the game mechanics and such. Plus, ultimately, it's your choice to let them follow you or not.

Maybe if they start following your lvl50 heroe you can take a few minutes to tell them that the game would be more enjoyable for them if they choose to actually play it and not being AFK, as they are going to be blind folded by the time they get to late game content.

Additionally, the recent tips that were implemented saves you quite some time to explain a couple of things about the game.

Personally, I only play with a bunch of friends. And I've been playing since 1.1e (I think, where at some point Zwieb considered the map a dead project but later on he came back to continue developing it) and I have seen how big this community has grown. I limit myself just to read Zwiebelchen's posts and maybe some guides from the most experienced players or those who want to contribute (like Alex posts, which are great btw) because frankly, the final call will be taken by him. I've also seen how meaningless some suggestions seem to be, as well as some others that turned out to be great. This subject in particular, seems actually quite silly.

Plain and simple, if you don't want to see players AFK and right-click, just do as I think you should, kick or kill. I support the idea of leveling souls on dungeons like Ethical says. Yes, maybe the whole idea of the soul system wasn't meant to be used in that way, but things like these will not always go as intended. And if you think thoroughly, it's just like avoiding playing with players who use cheats and such.

Why I am posting now? This just seems too much to let it pass by, and I felt like expressing my opinion.

 

[LittleTim]

It's Me

I disagree with this: a year or so back, I was helping a guy power level in a gaias bot; I'm sure it was (ihaz, boxfaith, karmia) and I think archangel was there and karmia, said if I helped him he going to do something, I better not. in return the guy left the game, I whispered him said ill help power level him anyways. He told me don't worry about it he wont support a map with a toxic community. and thus 1 less Gaias Player. so when you say someone doesn't deserve something. Who are you to say someone doesn't deserve something? I think that's called jealousy. so a new players joins the gaias bot he wait for 1 hour 2 hours ? maybe 3 hours just to find a low lvl group? don't think anyone here wouldn't wait that long. but lo and behold a high lvl comes along and sure he powers lvl him to 30-50, like now he wants to play more cause hes not done yet.

o and gasyqueen why would you kill another players hero ? that's against bot rules! no pvp allowed no ninja and other stuff. and kicking would be abuse of power if I afked during a boss fight does that vow a kick or would you be the judge of everyone who should be kicked?

 

[BoxOfFaith]

I'd just like to point out that this idea of leeching isn't unique to Gaias. Pretty much any MMO out there you'll find a glut of DPS characters and much fewer tanks/healers. Quite simply most people don't seem to want to play the more important roles, and playing purely DPS characters is sort of leeching in and of itself. We say we don't want leeching because when players get to the end game they run around like headless chickens, well, I don't think it has anything to do with them having leeched into the end game. I think people enjoy the path of least resistance, and often times thats playing a DPS character because most encounters are passed or failed based on the skill of your tank and healer.

 

[GasQueen]

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough: I wasn't aware that killing another player is against the bot rules. However, the discussion is about people who right-click and afk. I never said that you should start killing any random player's hero, I just came up with that just as I could have come up with the idea of entering and leaving a dungeon whilst a player is following you so that you can interrupt the follow command.

And as I said before, I don't play on the host bots. I can, but I don't. Maybe if you check my nick it will probably register like 10 hours of playing. As for the kicking a player part, same as before, we're talking about players who go AFK and pretend to be leveled and people who don't like that, although I don't remember how the votekick system on bots work to be honest, so maybe I'm not in the right place to talk about votekicking.

 

[TooMuch]

You guys are all missing something important here.
First off; if a lazy, don't care to learn the game, type of player afk follows you. Then why stay in the game? Leave, make another or join another, with whatever group you had and start in a leech free game. Then the guy comes back to find that he's pathetic and got no where.

Second, saikodemon; are you serious? Help them no matter what? Sure you can teach those groups of serious players that want to learn and enjoy the game. But isn't helping those who don't care contribute to the leeching/afk/incompetent players? If anything; the people who choose to help those who just want to boost and not learn any core game mechanics; have created their own problem.

When I have played with noobs in the past, I always talk to them first about the game itself. Basics and core concepts they need to know. I ignore their pleas for boosting if they don't show that "I want to know this game" attitude. People, who want to play this game, will always respond and show what they learn. Those who don't, are pretty obvious; they don't talk back and show no care or concern for a experienced players words.

In reality, would you all help those who don't deserve it? I don't think so. And to refute Jumbos points; you said that you are ruining the game with your own kindness. Then have you just admitted that it is partly your fault that this problem exists, along with the others who do the same? Having Zwieb make a system to counter your own weakness seems arbitrary don't you think?
Face it, no matter what happens. People will always find a way to power boost someone. The leeching/afk grinding is all you guys. Allowing it to happen right in front of you. You choose to help and not teach, or try to teach those who afk. Having a competent player base will only happen with those who want to listen. Those who have gotten high level and have no idea what the hell is happening. Is the result of either your own kindness or their own laziness. The two coincide. Lazy people don't get anywhere unless they are helped.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Indeed. It seems all I have to do is stop joining the bot and for the most part, ignore new players. Was waiting for the moment when Gaias would turn into an elitist community. The forum seems to be pretty toxic as well as of late. It's probably time I stopped fighting this losing battle, only play with pre-organised groups and restrict myself to the bug report section.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

Gaias was never meant to be a hardcore grinding game.

Really? What about killing HG/Alch/Brood/Garg 5000 times to get items and xp? Xp rate is also slow and drop rate is very low in this game so there is a significant amount of farming imo.

Where are all these new players you guys talk about? Sometimes I spend 5-6 hours afk in the bot while I'm doing other stuff, and not a single player will join.

 

[TooMuch]

OffTopic

You know saikodemon, I was wondering who you were. For a time, you reminded me of someone from the past that I couldn't pinpoint. But recently, people been calling you kamina. and that's when I remembered who you were.
Kamina, the player that looks at everyone and treats them like a piece of shit. Yes you, I cant believe you are still talking. Oh well, cant teach stupid right? I know you agree. Ive shamed you in the game before, Ill shame you in this forum. Stop thinking, for your own benefit, that you can make this game yours. I know you like telling people what to do. I know you have a bad habit of thinking only your way is right.

But don't you worry, someday, help will come to you. Now im not here to start drilling into you again. So don't try defending yourself. You'll make it too easy. But the next time you want to limit the freedom of players on a game and make it into my way or the highway again. ill be there waiting.

NOTE: for those don't know, this guy and some others... (vestra, waterknight, other in game names I forgot) are the reason why I stop respecting people over the internet. they at least, taught me that. So thank you. Now, I say this subject is done. Its obvious that it might end in a flame war for sure now.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

What's wrong with Vestra and Waterknight? Not that I'm doubting, I know that a lot of people in the Hive community are toxic players.

(I agree though, there is a certain irony to Kamina saying that he's going to become an elitist only now)

 

[LittleTim]

Indeed. It seems all I have to do is stop joining the bot and for the most part, ignore new players. Was waiting for the moment when Gaias would turn into an elitist community. The forum seems to be pretty toxic as well as of late. It's probably time I stopped fighting this losing battle, only play with pre-organised groups and restrict myself to the bug report section.

If you stopped joining bots, no one will notice.

Ignoring new players/people just because you didn't get what you wanted! Sounds like a cutthroat bitch.

You were waiting for an elitist community, but you don't want anyone else above you or they don't Deserve to be above you? hmm.

umm: As of late you seem to be the only truly active toxic community member, as of most of all your other posts I've seen.

You lost the war long ago, you just been a rebel; you still had hope.

Somewhere in that pre organized group, you're going to meet new people/players and you're going to find someone that would be better (Elite) then you.

And restricting yourself to the bug report section, what? After all you wouldn't be able to refrain from posting a comment on a post that doesn't require you're stupidity. I've seen some of the post that you made.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

Would you guys kindly stop flaming Kamina? Hes a lot more generous than any of you are being right now. Just because he doesn't want to put up with your shitty DPS druid builds doesn't mean hes an elitist. He wants players to accept the roles of the characters they select, and know how to go about engaging encounters at the higher levels. Theres been countless times somebody loads a half geared DPS character, and just runs around like a headless chicken anytime a random target spell comes their way.

Too many people don't know how to appropriately engage encounters, and part of the problem is that they're brought up to just ignore mechanics because all they've seen is maxed level characters doing exactly that. I don't think an anti leech exp mechanic is exactly the solution, but just because you guys have had disagreements with Kamina in the past really doesn't give you any right to start spouting off and being needlessly offensive on the forums.

The idea of the anti leech mechanic isn't to stop newbies from annoying high level characters. Its about discouraging high level characters from teaching newbies how to ignore mechanics. Its meant to HELP the newbies, not help the high levels. Don't flame people for coming up with an idea thats at least attempting to fix a problem.

 

[Ihazdialup]

I like how all these people are coming out and calling Kamina as a toxic player when he's never started a fight on the forums, may have been a bit brash, but dumb ideas are just dumb ideas in all honesty, and has always helped people who can be helped from my experience with him. he's actually a pillar in the community in all honesty, he's willing to tank or heal or fill any spot for the game to work, without him many runs I have been would have failed.

He is a good player, but by no means elitist in my opinion. He gives advice and if someone has a bad build, they have a bad build, if you're on a DPS char and you've built it to not be effective then thats your fault and he offers advice on how to be more effective.

You guys are the toxic players honestly, your the ones who go out and target other players and make them feel belittled.

BACK ON TOPIC:
I think that this would be a bad system actually... I don't think punishing the low characters is quite the right way to go about this, because some classes can get to the point in a near full game where it becomes very hard to solo and they have no access to a merc. Unfortunately there also isn't a proper way to punish the high levels for helping out the new characters.

I kind of like the item picking up concept though, but I think a better solution would be players only within the region, so players in the Foothills Region, not just in xp range of the boss, that way you can have someone whose trying to farm materials for their Serpent Staff or w/e can do that while the group takes down the bosses, idk just my thoughts.

However I do agree that there needs to be something to discourage high levels from helping out, at least a little bit, Maybe cap the damage done to things in certain areas... again just my two cents

 

[Jumbo]

Keep on topic guys. (Oh 2 posts above me while typing this. Basically I agree with what Box and Ihaz are saying).

TooMuch: you see the thing I am concerned about regarding unfair item and xp gaining is that it reflects back on the community. This again means that this community will be less enjoyable to play with than otherwise. Anyone playing on Bnet etc. contributes directly, whether for good or bad, to the community, no one plays in a vacuum there.

And I'd like to make it clear again that this suggestion was not about removing boosting/leeching, but simply about restricting it. This is a clear distincion.

@LittleTim: this is also why your point that boosted players can also become good players instead of just noobish leechers does not apply here. You can basically still boost people easily, but it will take more effort. Restrictions can serve as encouragement to play regularly lvling - but you certainly aren't forced to do so.

So, please understand that this thread is not a 'No boosting or Full boosting' discussion. There is no dichotomy in the op between these two things, and if you think there is; read the op post again


That said, Kamina is hands down the best Gaias player there is. Speaking from experience.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I'll let this discussion go on for now, but if there is even a single more post that I consider "namecalling", I'll lock this thread.

Keep it civil or use PMs for your personal differences, I don't care. But I won't tolerate toxicity in the forums.

 

[LittleTim]

Would you guys kindly stop flaming Kamina? Hes a lot more generous than any of you are being right now. Just because he doesn't want to put up with your shitty DPS druid builds doesn't mean hes an elitist. He wants players to accept the roles of the characters they select, and know how to go about engaging encounters at the higher levels. Theres been countless times somebody loads a half geared DPS character, and just runs around like a headless chicken anytime a random target spell comes their way.

He's so generous he doesn't want to put up with shitty dps druids, generosity comes at a price; come on ihazdial stop making him look worser then what he already is.. I never said he was a elite: He said he was waiting for a Elite community, regulars can never be elites.

many people don't know how to appropriately engage encounters, and part of the problem is that they're brought up to just ignore mechanics because all they've seen is maxed level characters doing exactly that. I don't think an anti leech exp mechanic is exactly the solution, but just because you guys have had disagreements with Kamina in the past really doesn't give you any right to start spouting off and being needlessly offensive on the forums.

Not to many people know cause either: you don't want to teach or you refuse to play another class more then enough dps is present or the healer doesn't know how to heal. I don't have Any right?, you have no right to tell people they don't have a right. Offensive? I guess everything is offensive in your English language. Were having a social confrontation, no harsh words being typed aside from WTF at the bottom even then those are just 3 letters.

The idea of the anti leech mechanic isn't to stop newbies from annoying high level characters. Its about discouraging high level characters from teaching newbies how to ignore mechanics. Its meant to HELP the newbies, not help the high levels. Don't flame people for coming up with an idea thats at least attempting to fix a problem.

WTF is this, I try to proof read my Sentences at lest or make since(gratz). this is a tough one...

1.So high lvls are being annoyed by newbies not knowing mechanics.
2.So high lvls feel the need to teach a annoying newbie how to ignore mechanics.
3.Discouraging a high lvl from helping a newbie? so who really learns if the newbie can never pass a objective? (what I said up top don't want to teach)
4.So, who is this helping? high lvls no longer teach and get annoyed, and newbies no longer learn; everyone equal.
5.If Jumbo's idea was reality we would make a lot of new problems. I was low lvl once, until I got high enough to play with the big boys, but when I came with a bersker with a one hand sword and a shield I got haged on and made fun of, for not having a 2 hand weapon for not having enough life cause I rather have more dps. and was refused to be played with because I didn't want to submit. So when a low lvl wants my help, I power lvl him until hes near max, and when he looks for his own group, I also warn him about the others, so he doesn't have to go though that shit.

I know kamia. Toomuch and I were in a group one day with kamia. I told Toomuch to tank gasrow fire, ill heal through his flame. At the end kamia got mad and told Toomuch he shouldn't show off?

like Zwiebelchen said.

All in all, my verdict on this (unless someone really brings a very good argument):
The grass is always greener on the other side; and as long as the community is torn about this, I'd say we should stick to the status quo before we calm one side just to upset the other.

irony comes as it seem ↓

 

[BoxOfFaith]

WTF is this, I try to prof read my Sentences at lest or make since(gratz). this is a tough one...

The irony.

Anyhow, its clear you have absolutely no idea what this thread is about, so if you simply don't understand what the thread is about, you should probably keep your baseless accusations to yourself. The purpose is to get level 50s to play level 10s to help other people around level 10, and to stop level 50s from simply roflstomping D1 and 2 hitting every enemy in their path. This leads to poor experience for the low levels, and then when they become high level and not everything is getting 2 hit, they run into issues of finding the game difficult, because their entire experience is having high levels carry them through content. If low levels gained nothing from being assisted by a high level, then I think you'd see more games where instead of someone loading their level 50, they'd actually load a level appropriate character to help the newbies.

While this is still very possible without putting any sort of restriction in, the reality is people tend to just load their level 50s and help the newbies anyway. Nobody is obligated to do so, and people very well could load a level appropriate character, but this just simply rarely happens. I don't see whats too wrong with putting an exp restriction in to prevent this sort of thing so that high levels are discouraged from being "too nice". Hopefully that actually makes sense to you.

 

[Jumbo]

Guys. Read Box' post above, and then read this as a supplement:
This thread and suggestion is about motivation/encouragement/discouragement. This thread is not about allowing/disallowing/forcing.

I don't think the community is bad in general, but there are a few people who shout very loudly at times, and it makes the whole forums look bad. So far only a few people have actually discussed the topic. It started well with Ira, but then it quickly became a downward spiral. Let us behave ourselves, and show that we are better than petty insults and whatnot.

 

[LittleTim]

The irony.

Anyhow, its clear you have absolutely no idea what this thread is about, so if you simply don't understand what the thread is about, you should probably keep your baseless accusations to yourself. The purpose is to get level 50s to play level 10s to help other people around level 10, and to stop level 50s from simply roflstomping D1 and 2 hitting every enemy in their path. This leads to poor experience for the low levels, and then when they become high level and not everything is getting 2 hit, they run into issues of finding the game difficult, because their entire experience is having high levels carry them through content. If low levels gained nothing from being assisted by a high level, then I think you'd see more games where instead of someone loading their level 50, they'd actually load a level appropriate character to help the newbies.

Anyhow you don't know what the thread is about the irony. Its about preventing high lvl from power lvling cause you're jealous. You cant stand the fact that someone else got powered lvl. What? he just got powered lvl. ><. so in turn you're all going to make new hero's just for just for fun? To help the newbie or is the newbie going to wait for more newbies? were short newbie if you haven't notice. instead of loading! their! lvl 50. load lvl appropriate character! how nice are you to start a new character to help the newbie, and then bum rush him to higher lvls? I don't know about you but I cant sit here all day and start all over again.

While this is still very possible without putting any sort of restriction in, the reality is people tend to just load their level 50s and help the newbies anyway. Nobody is obligated to do so, and people very well could load a level appropriate character, but this just simply rarely happens. I don't see whats too wrong with putting an exp restriction in to prevent this sort of thing so that high levels are discouraged from being "too nice". Hopefully that actually makes sense to you.

I tried to keep it short for you boy, so it would make sense to you and so you wouldn't be like TLDR. If you cant understand what's wrong with this then you don't know what is wrong with socialism. Making every thing so fair no one gets nowhere.

I've been on and off gaias since 2009, I've come across people who can't find a group for weeks and since we all don't play every day. I power leved him so no time is wasted. I've powered lvl about 40 people and answered question they asked over the years, so has TooMuch.

 

[LittleTim]

Guys. Read Box' post above, and then read this as a supplement:
This thread and suggestion is about motivation/encouragement/discouragement. This thread is not about allowing/disallowing/forcing.

I don't think the community is bad in general, but there are a few people who shout very loudly at times, and it makes the whole forums look bad. So far only a few people have actually discussed the topic. It started well with Ira, but then it quickly became a downward spiral. Let us behave ourselves, and show that we are better than petty insults and whatnot.

jumbo look. I haven't said anything over a few months, but when you threaten something I do to help the community grow, that's a problem. I hardly ever play with you and your group not say that's a bad thing but there are many more isolated gaias groups out there who are either to small or we don't know about. I'm a dedicated healer Too Much power lvl me in a few hours just so we can 2 man bosses if you limit other groups they might get discourage from playing.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

Man, double posting and baseless accusations and assumptions, you're really good at these forum things!

Theres more to the game than simply power leveling players to the end. You'd still be welcome to power level the newbies on your level 50s if thats what you really wanted to do, it'd just be slower is all . You'd be better off playing through the content as level appropriate characters though and I think everyone would get much more enjoyment that way. Unless you plan on continuing to help everyone that you've helped, all you end up doing is pushing the burden onto other players who need to play with these newer players now.

Its really unfortunate when you're trying to play with someone new, and they only know how to do things one way and you end up with players with a high level but actually very little game knowledge. If thats the sort of player you want to breed then you're also welcome to potentially play older version to help power them through. Saving time isn't always good. Getting players the actual game experience they need to successfully join other groups of players is important as well, and thats something power leveling takes away from them.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Enough of this!

 

[Celaquil]

I've read enough.

You guys seriously disgrace this forum, and I won't have it.

This thread will be locked and the perpetrators will be dealt with appropriately.
I won't point fingers, but you know who you are: Whatever damn quarrels you
have either on this forum or somewhere else, don't bring them into public threads.

We do NOT foster a hateful, spiteful environment of degraded offences and abusing.
I am ashamed even to know that some of you guys are actively using this site.