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Suggest JASS, vJASS, and cJASS sections

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by Nestharus, Oct 7, 2009.

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  1. Nestharus

    Nestharus

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    1. cJASS is an approved tool, but THW's stance to my knowledge is that you cannot submit plain cJASS resources. THW needs to make their stance clear =P. If THW's stance is that you can submit plain cJASS resources now, then disregard the following and let us all know with an announcement. If you plan to keep requiring vJASS when submitting cJASS, then please read the rest of this post.

    I suggest you split them up into 3 sections so that we don't have to keep saying this requires this and that. It'll also make cJASS people happier as they won't have to keep writing in vJASS. I'm a cJASS person that hates writing vJASS ^_^.

    Either that, or let people submit plain old cJASS resources in the current JASS section without requiring a vJASS version. Do you require plain JASS versions for the vJASS? No. So why are you requiring vJASS on the cJASS stuff??

    This will make everyone happy ^_^.

    I'm not going to be submitting anymore resources until something gets resolved because I am not going to write the same resource two times UNLESS vJASS resources have to have a JASS resource counterpart. That is the only way you can justify cJASS resources having to have a vJASS resource counterpart.

    Who else is with me?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  2. TriggerHappy

    TriggerHappy

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    If your talking about the Jass submission forum, simply add tags before threads.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
  3. Nestharus

    Nestharus

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    Quote:
    Either that, or let people submit plain old cJASS resources in the current JASS section without requiring a vJASS version. Do you require plain JASS versions for the vJASS? No. So why are you requiring vJASS on the cJASS stuff??
     
  4. Pyritie

    Pyritie

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    What the hell is cJASS?
     
  5. Nestharus

    Nestharus

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    An approved tool-
    http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/tools.php?id=9kjk7w

    And thus far every forum has said, only way you are submitting cJASS resources is if you also submit it in vJASS.

    Pretty much, we approve this, but you can't use it.

    Unless THW has changed its stance?
     
  6. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    If you want me to choose between rejecting cJASS and making cJASS a standard, I would reject it without a second thought. People can post cJASS in threads because people can post whatever form they want in threads, but cJASS resources will not be accepted.

    Also, we aren't "requiring vJASS on the cJASS versions". We just aren't allowing cJASS.

    --

    There's a big difference between some people using a tool for personal use and it being adopted as a standard. We'd be in a bit of a crisis as to which MPQ editor to use, for example, if this was the case.
     
  7. Nestharus

    Nestharus

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    Because people have been posting vJASS versions and cJASS versions, it was made very unclear as to THW's stance on cJASS =). Also, if you look through the tool's replies, people have been asking questions.

    You should put a sticky up or something saying that cJASS resources are not allowed and vJASS only =P

    Thanks for the quick and clear clarification PurplePoot = D. +rep
     
  8. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    I think the fact that we don't have any support for it is clear indication it isn't official.
     
  9. Nestharus

    Nestharus

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    And I think that just about sums it up.

    Now before reading the rest of this, the point people on TheHelper are making is that they are saying cJASS is still Beta, ok. The rest of this post is rather serious and strong, but it might be due to unclear reasons on your part, which is another reason why a sticky would be very useful for THW's stance on cJASS and why. I wrote this post with the thought of cJASS never being fully approved on this site =) (cJASS never being allowed for use in writing resources), so just keep that in mind while reading it otherwise there could be a really big misunderstanding o-o, unless that really is your intention =O. Actually, if my understanding of the situation was wrong (the way the post was written), then you don't even need to bother reading below the ----------------------- line as it'd be a waste of time on your part ^_^.

    So, I guess a good way to respond to this was that I got the wrong idea and you are just waiting for cJASS to be finalized (but then why did you approve the tool is what I want to know). Personally, I didn't think cJASS was still in Beta because it was submitted to the forums.

    I Guess the other way to respond to this is to answer the really important question in the post.

    Also, your comparison of an MPQ tool to cJASS was a pretty poor one. cJASS is used to actually create resources that are read on a site like this. MPQ Is not, it's just a means to open them.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In my opinion, I think your stance is wrong and I think you should allow cJASS, but you're the moderator, so you do what you want, you won't be seeing anything new from me, or probably from a mess of others who feel the same way. Rejecting something that obviously works and writes sound code is just going to cause segregation between the programmers, especially considering the fact that you can write vJASS if you want to.

    I'm an extreme liberal, so it's pretty obvious how I feel about this.

    Just answer me this question-
    Are you really going to reprimand the community to fulfill your own agenda?

    I myself have gained nothing from THW. I have read no tutorials nor have I used any resources from this site for inspiration or use in a map. The only thing I have done here is try to help others and submit resources for others to use. I don't do it for any glory or fame. I don't ask for reputation here or there... I create a resource to the best of my ability for other people to use. I am so strongly opposed to your stance because cJASS is an invaluable tool for the general community.

    When you say that resources are not allowed to be written in cJASS, that to me is like saying you are going to stomp on the very community that creates the resources on THW today.

    I don't think that this decision is yours to make.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  10. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    I approved cJASS because a lot of people like it; I dislike it myself. I'll add a note to my approval message noting that this does not imply it will be allowed for resources.

    --

    It is my decision to make, but I obviously can't just do whatever I feel like (like rejecting cJASS) because the public needs to be considered too for people to be at least somewhat happy. Why do I not want to standardize cJASS?

    • As mentioned, the tool is unstable and in general problematic. In addition, it's rather hacked together.

    • It has not been adopted as a standard elsewhere and for good reason as far as I see it.

    • If we allowed every language that someone made up then quite frankly the place would be a mess soon enough. You're welcome to use and share your cJASS code; it just won't be approved (unless, of course, a version working for those who are not using it [and thus is in either vJASS or JASS] is provided). It's not like I'm putting a ban on it—I'm just saying it can't be submitted independently. Let's face it, it's not like cJASS is much of an improvement on anything before it; it's not like you can do stuff in cJASS which is hard or messy to do in vJASS or JASS.


    I'd be interested to know why your tone suddenly became so hostile.
     
  11. Nestharus

    Nestharus

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    It'd be great if this was your note tho, or something close to it-
    These, as a note, would let people know THW's stance on the tool and it would let people know why.

    You know, maybe making hosted project section for cJASS for while it remains in a -hack job- is a good idea, this way, people could submit resources (wouldn't be moderated) for later on if cJASS ever became another standard. It would make cJASS advocates happy as they could share and collaborate, and it would keep to the -this isn't official and we aren't moderating the resources here or approving of them- stance.

    You could even put a sticky up there letting people know so that you reiterate the note in the Tool =).

    Also it would help cJASS mature so that its bugs are fixed faster ^_^.

    So, rather than having a cJASS section for cJASS resources that can be approved, make it sort of like RTC was I suppose, meaning that it isn't necessarily stable and anything written with it isn't going to be approved, but it is def there and there is def a community.
     
  12. EvilStalker

    EvilStalker

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    nuff said
     
  13. Viikuna

    Viikuna

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    Theres nothing in cJass right now that would make me to use it, but if some people do find it useful, then it is natural that there will be cJass resources appearing all around in the future.

    I see nothing wrong allowing people to post them, but I do understand if Jass moderators who dont feel like reviewing them.

    But yea, there should probably be some place for cJass stuff, since its not so good idea to just let them hang in Jass submission forum.
     
  14. Yixx

    Yixx

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  15. Dark_Dragon

    Dark_Dragon

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    zinc has nothing to do with "not requering JNGPS or destroying cJass"

    JNGPS is just an bunch of files put together with my libs to make programming faster and easier...

    as well this is about cJass not JNGPS... zinc is part of vJass and is now an correct language "correct syntax accepted by vJass parser" which makes coding faster and more readable "in my case"

    first of all i really am glade that zinc was added! why? coz if there are requests or i want to make spells for public i can make quick code "as i like" which is more C like and post it here... i dont like old vJass syntax at all...

    however zinc cant replace cJass coz its different, it has some better things than cJass but opposite as well.

    main power of cJass are defines and just simply ++ and all that stuff, which zinc does not have jet or maybe wont have at all.

    as well syntax is different there is still that function keyword and its slower to write -> type then just start with type which makes more sence to me, as well is C like.

    as well i am just about to update JNGPS to have zinc and cJass which works with zinc now...

    i like zinc a lot coz of how it works, for example its an completely new language "syntax" and its a must to follow its rules.

    Msg("test"); // correct
    Msg("test") // wrong

    if (!false) // correct
    if (not false) // wrong
    if !false // wrong

    and so on... currently only thing i dont like about cJass is that it depends on JassHelper and its syntax so it cant return error if i write "not" or "and"...

    i will still code in cJass in making of my projects and in zinc for anything else... vJass is dead for me now!

    so i like both JassHelper and AdicHelper

    about JNGPS zinc does not add new functions, macros, types and whatever, as well does not update GUI...
     
  16. PurplePoot

    PurplePoot

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    Why is it that people are convinced that C-based syntax is the only kind in existence/the only good kind?

    Also, I think that the -> syntax for returns is one of the best syntax changes around. It allows the function to read normally while not being the incredibly awkward unreadable mess that is C++.

    Also, don't get your hopes up on seeing ++/--/etc any time soon. I'd be surprised if Vex ever adds them, and I don't really blame him.
     
  17. scorpion182

    scorpion182

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    cJass and vJass are Jass preprocessor, all codes will be converted into Jass
     
  18. Reaper2008

    Reaper2008

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    Not the point.

    @PurplePoot: I like
    type FuncName(param)
    more than
    function FuncName(param) -> return
    .

    Both cJASS and zinc are nice, but when I want C syntax I'll open MSVC++. To me, the extra requirements (Jasshelper, AdicHelper) aren't justified by the amount of code I type faster.
     
  19. Yixx

    Yixx

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    I know, i was just being an ass....:ugly:
    And i know cJass and ZINC are not comparable, and that it is just what you prefer (vJass, cJass or ZINC).

    I also like the
    type name (param)
    syntax, but i still prefer good readability over quick writing, so i'm gonna stick with vJass, for now.
    (Im not saying that cJass hasnt got good readability, just less than vJass IMO)
     
  20. Dark_Dragon

    Dark_Dragon

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    not really i like zinc syntax as well, however i like C one more, thats all.

    yes thats one nice syntax and it makes zinc to be "zinc"! thats part of it i like as well, however i again like C syntax more, which does not mean i dont like zinc ;)

    i as well think he wont add them at all... but thats fine since that makes zinc to be "zinc" xD

    well yeah if you like a little bit more readable code than "C" one, but want to type faster than in jass. then zinc is the best for that. else i like cJass more, coz i already think in "C" way xD so when i see C code its all readable to me!

    Greets all!
    ~DD
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
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