Similar Spells On Same Unit

[Wazzz]

Similar Spells On Same Unit

Many people have asked the question 'How do I get 2 abilities based off of the same one to work on the same unit?'. I too asked myself this question, as I wanted to do this for myself. I figured out a way, and have told people my method. However, it is tiring typing it again and again, so I thought seeing as how so many people ask the question, perhaps a tutorial would be of greater assistance.

History

When I first started working out how I was going to do this method, I wanted to have groups of spells in different spellbooks. After tinkering around, I figured out how to have multipled spellbooks on the same unit (understand I have never needed to do this before). I wanted to get as many spells as I could that were like Infernal so that I could summon units without fear of the player being able to target higher ground, causing the unit to be trapped. Well, I naturally tried Blizzard, Cluster Rockets, the works. They were no where near as effective as Infernal. Infernal was my dream ability for what I wanted to accomplish. Then it struck me.

I had, after all, put spells like Blizzard and Cluster Rockets in more than just the one spell book, and after a bit of tinkering, got them working on their own. With this in mind, I figured out my method, which I will give to you now...

The Method

As I wanted Infernal to be the only ability I was basing things off, this was perfect for me. Use this method on whatever spell you want to double up.

First, depending on how many abilities you have (if you are using this method, you most likely want to do this anyway). you should create your base spellbooks. These will contain your 'spells'. Why do I quote spells? You will see.

For spellbooks have something unique to them. They have something called the Spellbook ID. If you want more than one spellbook on the same unit, they must have different Spellbook ID's, or their spells will clash into one giga-spellbook, which is terrible as it cuts out abilities and gets you nowhere.

For each spell, create a spellbook, using a different Spellbook ID each time. The spellbook most likely should have the same name and tooltips as the spell it contains, but that is entirely up to you. Then, put the minor spellbooks (I will call the spellbooks containing the spell that for convenience) inside the bigger spellbooks (the ones you originally created). Double check you have not repeated a Spellbook ID for any spellbook, whether it be major or minor, you can not risk doubling up even once.

Well, now you are done. Sure, you still have to give the major spellbook ability to the unit/hero/building/whatever you want to have it, but other than that, you are done. What have you achieved? Well, for me, it was having as many Infernal-based abilities as I want on the same unit, working individually without any risk of overlapping whatsoever. I hope this has been of help to some of you hivers out there. Good luck!

Okay, here is a step-by-step tutorial for those who still have no idea of what I'm saying.

1. Create your abilities off of the same ability. Name them what you want, give them whatever stats you want, they'll most likely be dummy abilities if you're using this method, anyway, so setting the stats is optional (if triggered properly, the effect won't even play out).
   
2. Create a spell book for each and every spell you just made. Keep the same tooltips (just for look, only optional) and use the same name of the respective ability (this is imperative).
   
3. Place each spell in their respective spell book, making sure each one is in its correct spell book and that it's the only one.
   
4. Make each and every spell book have a unique Spellbook ID. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. Not doing so will result in spells overlapping across spellbooks, defeating the purpose of having two spell books on the same unit.
   
5. Create a new spell book ability. Place the other spell book abilities inside of it. Give this 'master' spell book a unique Spellbook ID just to be sure that nothing overlaps. And yes, I do count this as one step.
   
6. Place 'master' spell book ability on desired unit/building/whatever. Test the map, look in awe at what you have accomplished, I feel an overwhelming sense of Deja Vu (have I said something like this before? Perhaps I have... )

I hope this is explanatory enough. If not, just give me a yell and let me know what you didn't understand. I'll try and change it so that it's as easy as possible to understand. Also, there is a demo map attached to this for those who want to see how the system works. And finally, thankyou for reading this tutorial!

 

[SanKakU]

ok, but doesn't this make it so you have to select the spell after selecting the 'spellbook'? but it sounds like it is useful because you can for example summon just about any unit with the modified infernal abilities. can you please submit a test map for this? i'm not sure i understand it fully but i think a test map will make it easy to understand.

 

[Wazzz]

ok, but doesn't this make it so you have to select the spell after selecting the 'spellbook'? but it sounds like it is useful because you can for example summon just about any unit with the modified infernal abilities. can you please submit a test map for this? i'm not sure i understand it fully but i think a test map will make it easy to understand.

Here, I quickly made this map to demonstrate how easy it is once you get the hang of it.

And in answer to your first question, yes, you do have to select the spell after selecting the 'spellbook'. However, it allows for the use of multiple Inferno abilities. If you are not trying to replicate an ability with different statistics or whatever, then this method would most likely be a waste of time . If you are, this is how to do it. Good luck!

 

[Need_O2]

is this supposed to be a good solution or am I missing something

 

[Wazzz]

Well, Need_O2, I think you may be missing something. You see, this is a tutorial for the specific problem of wanting more than one of the same ability on the same unit. If it's only 2, it may or may not be worth the trouble, that's for the user to decide. However, if you want a whole heap of dummy abilities based off of the same one for the same unit, this is the solution for you.

 

[Eleandor]

Eh...

If you're using the abilities for dummy abilities (which is 99% of the time when you're using 2 spells based off the same one), this is a really, really bad solution. Channel is the way to go.

 

[Wazzz]

Well, if you're doing a targetting spell, I do believe that channel would be the way to go (although I do not know how to use it ). However, does channel have the same capabilities as Infernal or other abilities with either a target on a point rather than a unit or just no target at all? In addition, although this remains untested, it could allow for a unit to have more than one Morph ability.

Well, I may as well tell you why I devised such a tedious method. You see, I wanted to use the Infernal ability specifically. This is because I wanted an ability that targeted a point AND wouldn't be able to target a cliff or somewhere where a unit could not go. I was using the Infernal abilities as dummy casters for placing units.

Also, if you look past the abnormal specifity of the tutorial, you could possibly extract useful information, particularly if you are new to the World Editor and want to learn, or even quite adept at the World Editor but don't quite have much of a concept of how Spellbooks can be used. For you see, I am also informing everyone who may not know about the Spellbook ID and its uses of... well, the Spellbook ID and its uses. This tutorial doesn't just show how to have multiple abilities based off the same one on the same unit, it also tells readers how to have more than one functional spellbook on the same unit.

 

[Need_O2]

Okay I stop being nice now
This is horrible, keep playing your dota and Need for speed

 

[Wazzz]

Okay I stop being nice now
This is horrible, keep playing your dota and Need for speed

Um, yeah, good on you. I don't even play those things purely because I don't like them, and you don't even suggest an alternative solution. So, unless you have something useful to say, I insist you don't say anything at all, simply because this would be classified as flaming.

So, where's my solution if you're so good? At the moment, you look a little bit like Figjam to me.

 

[Need_O2]

Im just a player-user submitting my opinion
Even if I didnt have a solution still I wouldnt like this
Anyway Channel rox ^_^

 

[Wazzz]

A player-user submitting your opinion, huh? Well, it's not very useful in any case. Does anyone really listen to your opinion, because I was under the impression that saying a remark like that would count as flaming. And you don't even back it up with a solution! In future, I think it would be wise to keep your opinion to yourself unless you are actually going to make use of it.

 

[Eleandor]

Well, if you're doing a targetting spell, I do believe that channel would be the way to go (although I do not know how to use it ). However, does channel have the same capabilities as Infernal or other abilities with either a target on a point rather than a unit or just no target at all?

Yes it does. Anything except "autocast" can be done through channel.

... but don't quite have much of a concept of how Spellbooks can be used. For you see, I am also informing everyone who may not know about the Spellbook ID and its uses of... well, the Spellbook ID and its uses. This tutorial doesn't just show how to have multiple abilities based off the same one on the same unit, it also tells readers how to have more than one functional spellbook on the same unit.

There are other tutorials explaining everything known about the spellbook, mainly the "Mysteries of the spellbook" tutorial. It explains this and much more. This only explains a specific use of the spellbook at the contrary of the spellbook as a whole, and it can still be done in a more clean way through channel. Which also doesn't stun on impact.

 

[Wazzz]

I should point out that I wanted the Inferno ability mainly because it does not allow you to target unpathable terrain. Does the channel ability allow you to do this?

Also, as for the stun on impact, that's a factor I ruled out. Even though I was using the abilities in a way that would not target enemy units, I think you can also just remove all the allowed targets. If not, I just set the stun to 0.01 seconds. Interesting thought, though. Could you hook us up with a link to the channel tutorial, plz?

 

[Vegavak]

Using channel and having a dummy caster cast the actual spell is superior.

 

[Dynasti]

Wouldn't just changing the order id fix it? Like the Shockwave is "shockwave". Then why dont change that to something else?

 

[Wazzz]

Not really, Dynasti, as I have tried that before. Hence why I went to a lot of trouble to find an alternative. I think the Order String ID might be what you reference via triggers in the issue order command, although I'm not entirely sure. However, it certainly does not do what you are saying it does (though I wish it would, as life would be much easier if it was so... :[).

 

[Eleandor]

Wouldn't just changing the order id fix it? Like the Shockwave is "shockwave". Then why dont change that to something else?

Nope, that doesn't work. Theoretically it would, but the order string is still the default one when testing in-game. Blizzard games do have bugs. I'm pretty sure blizzard designed the channel ability for this purpose solely: being able to change order string id's. I guess it was easier to do this than to actually fix the bug.

 

[SanKakU]

i think it sounds useful, it's hard to say what all it could accomplish, but if i understand this right...it sounds as though you could summon pocket monsters pretty well with a system like this.

oh i just tested the map and i just noticed something! your major spellbook is still accessible even after all the others are used up! this isn't possible with simple singular spellbooks, with them even if one ability is still in cooldown, you can't open the spellbook. this is great!

this makes me wonder if it would be a simple matter to compute some very random damage by using multiple critical strike abilities... like for example, if you have 10 in number 10 percent critical strikes with like 1 times 2 times, 3 times and 4 times and so on normal damage...will he be able to stack the critical strike so that there's 100 percent chance that the number will pop up? basically is what i'm getting at...i'm going to test that out i guess. my guess isn't that it will be the case, that would be sweet though. my guess is that the critical strike will stay at 10 percent and times damage goes to the highest ammount...but idk. will have to see.

 

[Wazzz]

Lol, glad you like it, found it very useful personally, so naturally wanted to see what others thought. When they ask how to do such things, it's always been what I tell them. However, I got sick of typing it out, so making this was a good way to help anyone who didn't know off-hand what to do.

And I still haven't received any link to a tutorial on the Channel ability

I think if you did multiple Critical Strike attacks, you'd end up having a chance to do multiple damage types at the same time. In other words, let's say you have two abilities. One is 2 times damage, the other 3. They both occur at the same time, dealing 6 times damage (2 * 3).

 

[Pyritie]

Could do with some more explanation. Maybe something like a step-by-step guide (using

1. tags), screenshots, and possibly an example map. Also remember to remove your signature and use

   ,

   , and

   tags.

 

[Wazzz]

I have an example map, but I think it's in the third post

Yes, I made this a while ago, so it looks a little... very boring to read

Thx for the tip, you are quite a legend in this site, if I am correct in assuming that you having the name Pyritie implies that you are the Pyritie of hiveworkshop

 

[Pyritie]

I have an example map, but I think it's in the third post

Yeah, move it to the first post. That's where all attachments should go.

Yes, I made this a while ago, so it looks a little... very boring to read

It need to be improved if you want it approved.

Thx for the tip, you are quite a legend in this site, if I am correct in assuming that you having the name Pyritie implies that you are the Pyritie of hiveworkshop

uh no, that's my identical twin

 

[Wazzz]

First page has been edited now, check it out.

 

[Pyritie]

Could do with some more explanation. Maybe something like a step-by-step guide (using

1. tags), screenshots

1. 
   
   These please.
   
   Also, no color tags.

 

[Pyritie]

Still working on this?

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, might as well, seeing as how ppl are finding it useful now (NeedO2 seemed to disagree but wouldn't tell me why). Yeah, I'll see what can be done.

 

[Wazzz]

UPDATE: It's been changed, I added a step-by-step tutorial. How is it? I prlly won't be able to change it again too soon, so until I can, I hope you like it

 

[Linaze]

Remove the "Edit: Here is a demo map" part, it looks very unprofessional, rather add a changelog. The formatting and such works very well, even though you could get rid of the colors in my opinion. I think this is a nice tutorial with clean formatting that offers a relatively simple solution to a common problem, and because of these reasons, I suggest this tutorial for approved.

 

[Wazzz]

Change has been made, thx for the tip, Linaze . And thx for the comment, too

 

[Pyritie]

Yep, just remove the colored text and use

1. tags for the steps and you'll be set.

 

[Wazzz]

Using

1. didn't seem to work, it kept wanting to put a 1 in front of every line, so I hope what I did is just as appealing
   If not, how do I use that
   1. tag to get it to actually count?

 

[Linaze]

[list=1]

[*]Test 1

[*]Test 2

[/list]

 

[Wazzz]

Changes made, thx for the help Linaze and Pyritie

 

[Pyritie]

yepyep, approved

 

[LlamaNamedOsama]

Hey, I tried it, but it doesn't seem to work for me...

I'm guessing it has something to do with the "unique ID" part of the spellbooks - does this refer to "Data - Base Order ID"? That's what I edited to have each of the six (number of stacked spells in my map) spellbooks have "unique" alongside the 7th spellbook which all 6 are in, but in the end all six abilities still cast...

 

[Wazzz]

It's not the 'Base Order ID', it's the 'Spellbook ID'. You will find it closer to the top.

Unfortunately, the Base Order ID never worked, a bug that Blizzard mustn't have figured to be worth fixing. However, the Spellbook abilities are what I use to get around that. I have also heard of the Channel ability, which would be worth looking into, but it all depends on the style you want for your map. I have faced some people with prejudice's towards this method, but it's because they didn't open their eyes to the fact that this would actually work for a particular style .

 

[LlamaNamedOsama]

Hmm....Sorry if I'm slow or something, but I don't see 'Spellbook ID' as one of the fields...

 

[Wazzz]

Whoops, my mistake, sorry, it is the Base Order ID. But the question is have you got a different Base Order ID for the Spellbook which you have all the sub-spellbooks in? Each and every one needs a different ID. If problems are still occurring, can you perhaps show me the map in question? That may help me solve any problems.

Incidentally, have you looked at the demo map I submitted? That will show you how it works if you haven't looked at it already. Hope problems cease to persist

 

[LlamaNamedOsama]

Yeah, the six books plus the master one all have unique IDs and it still doesn't work >.<...do you have an email I can send the map to?

 

[zicron]

In your demo map , you need to open the master spell book(first step) and then open the minor spell book (second step) , finally activate your infernal1 skill in the minor spell book (third step).

the most interesting thing here are that all the spells are all based on one single ability and no clash.

Great idea, i never though of this before when i editing spell book ability.

However is there anyway to activate the skill in the master spell book without the need of open the minor spell book? I mean , activate a spell in 2 steps, because the spell book only contain 1 spell, it feel kinda redundant to open the spell book to cast a spell.

 

[Wazzz]

Well, the main reason the spells don't clash is because they are in a seemingly redundant spellbook. This is the main flaw in the system, and I'm not sure if it can be fixed or not, but atm the individuality relies on that single-spell spellbook. Maybe someone would know how to fix this (could be fixed with a trigger, for instance), but apart from that, I don't know sorry

 

[FlowerofSpeech]

This method is way too messy for most spells, but in some instances it could be very useful. I think this idea would work better when dealing with passives. I'm curious, would having 2 evasions of 50% in separate spell books increase your evasiveness to 100%? Probably not, but an attack might get checked twice for evasion, giving you really 75% evasion?

 

[Wazzz]

It would be checked twice, making it 75% as you say. I admit, it is a bit messy, but in some instances the best option. It's more of a particular circumstance kind of thing (in other words, if you have a better alternative at hand, you wouldn't want to use this).