Share full Item Control

[The3X]

Hey, please ignore the first few posts, as the problem changed. Anyway, the first problem was not solved, so you can still look after it.
Here is the new problem:

Sorry to warm this up, but I have another problem:

In my Archon mode, 2 players are on one team, only the first has units while the second does have "full unit control".
The problem is, when the second player tries to buy Mercenaries or a Tavern Hero, the game wants him to buy it for himself, thus the second player cannot buy Tavern Heroes, cause he has no Altar, etc.
Is there a possibility to solve this?
So if the second player tries to hire some unit, the first one's dependencies are used and he does get the unit?

Yet I can't thing of a way to solve it, unless I use "Upgrades", but since you cannot undo Upgrades this won't solve the problem, too...

OLD Post:
Hey guys.
Got a hard question I think:
I wanted to create an Archon-Map like in SC2.
I managed doing it quite great, so I will explain it in an example:
Player Red and Blue are in one Force and only player Red has units, player Blue has nothing but they share full unit control. This makes Blue able to command the army as well as build and research (cause its share full unit control).

The problem is:
When player Blue tries to buy an item or hire a mercanary, it does not work, cause the game wants him to have the money. But that destroys the idea of Archon. However Red could give Blue Gold to solve that problem.
Another and even bigger problem is: Blue cannot use special items (i.e. the skeleton staff) or Blue cannot use the Meat Wagon collect corpse ability.

Is there a possibility to give an even greater full control?

 

[Wrda]

If there was a greater unit control than "full unit control", maybe then it would be called "full unit control, not something else. Did you only red share blue full unit control or did you also do the inverse?
the gold problem...there's no good ways to solve this other than sharing gold.

 

[The3X]

Yo, of course I made both shared.
In the map force settings and in triggers just to be sure.
The problem remains with using certain abilities/items like the Rod of Necromancy and the meat wagons load ability.
There may be other abilities.
When I'm blue and try to order a red unit to use such an ability, it says, there is no valid target.
I may add a map file with my code later.
I made it possible both players have same resources by storage teamressources thread safe and adjusting player resources.

 

[Cespie]

Hey guys.
Got a hard question I think:
I wanted to create an Archon-Map like in SC2.
I managed doing it quite great, so I will explain it in an example:
Player Red and Blue are in one Force and only player Red has units, player Blue has nothing but they share full unit control. This makes Blue able to command the army as well as build and research (cause its share full unit control).

The problem is:
When player Blue tries to buy an item or hire a mercanary, it does not work, cause the game wants him to have the money. But that destroys the idea of Archon. However Red could give Blue Gold to solve that problem.
Another and even bigger problem is: Blue cannot use special items (i.e. the skeleton staff) or Blue cannot use the Meat Wagon collect corpse ability.

Is there a possibility to give an even greater full control?

Gold sharing is the easiest way to get around the gold issue, but you could also trigger the interaction using dummy spells.

 

[The3X]

Gold is fixed.

G
but you could also trigger the interaction using dummy spells.

I cannot do this with this abilities, as they check if a corpse is near.

 

[Cespie]

I cannot do this with this abilities, as they check if a corpse is near.

Try this little test:

Place a red Meat Wagon and a corpse.
Make a trigger that issues an order to the Meat Wagon to use Load. Could be triggered by game time or whatever. Just have it being ordered, then tell me if that works.

 

[The3X]

Try this little test:

Place a red Meat Wagon and a corpse.
Make a trigger that issues an order to the Meat Wagon to use Load. Could be triggered by game time or whatever. Just have it being ordered, then tell me if that works.

Okay, I don't really get what that test is for. As it won't solve the problem if a trigger can do it.

Anyway, it didn't work for me.
I now upload the map in this post. You may ignore my resource share and my local variables shit. I tried to do most of it in GUI so everyone can read anything.
Your test is in it, it's the category with your name. You may alter it, if it is not what you asked for.

Problem is:
You cannot order units abilities that need certain conditions. The meatwagon needs a corpse in range and you cannot force it to load it. You cannot use Rod of Necromancy cause of same reason I think.
I don't get why it's forbidden.

 

[Cespie]

Okay, I don't really get what that test is for. As it won't solve the problem if a trigger can do it.

Anyway, it didn't work for me.
I now upload the map in this post. You may ignore my resource share and my local variables shit. I tried to do most of it in GUI so everyone can read anything.
Your test is in it, it's the category with your name. You may alter it, if it is not what you asked for.

Problem is:
You cannot order units abilities that need certain conditions. The meatwagon needs a corpse in range and you cannot force it to load it. You cannot use Rod of Necromancy cause of same reason I think.
I don't get why it's forbidden.

I will have a look when I have the time.

The reason I ask you to do this test, is that if the spell works when issued an order through a trigger, you can swap the spell with a dummy spell, that uses a trigger to cast the real Load skill. This way, it doesn't matter if Blue or Red presses the skill, as both of them will be pressing a dummy skill that orders it to cast the real one instead.

 

[The3X]

I thought about that reason for the test. But still don't get it.
I would needed a spell which checks if a corpse is near.
Even if I don't need that, I need the unit to have the original spell cast with the trigger.
So the unit kind of needs to swap spells and gets the order or sth like that. However there is no possibility to determine when to swap back.
I can't see anything that offers.

 

[Cespie]

I thought about that reason for the test. But still don't get it.
I would needed a spell which checks if a corpse is near.
Even if I don't need that, I need the unit to have the original spell cast with the trigger.
So the unit kind of needs to swap spells and gets the order or sth like that. However there is no possibility to determine when to swap back.
I can't see anything that offers.

No, it's simpler than that. You simply edit the REAL load spell to be invisible, yet still on the Meat Wagon. Then you give it a DUMMY load spell that looks exactly like it, but is actually just Channel or something. Then, when the DUMMY is pressed, the Meat Wagon is ordered to cast the REAL load instead, which is where the checking for corpses is done.

The issue stems from this ability being unable to run when it is being cast through shared control, but if the spell could be run by a trigger, then that solves the problem.

 

[The3X]

I see. Never made it possible to use an invisible spell via trigger, maybe you can make that work.
Let's hope the wagon tells you it's not possible when it's not possible.

Edit: Additionally I can't make a trigger use that "Get Corpse" spell.
Maybe that's why I couldn't use invisible spells with triggers, cause I used those spells.
Maybe I do sth. wrong.
You try this.

 

[Cespie]

I see. Never made it possible to use an invisible spell via trigger, maybe you can make that work.
Let's hope the wagon tells you it's not possible when it's not possible.

Edit: Additionally I can't make a trigger use that "Get Corpse" spell.
Maybe that's why I couldn't use invisible spells with triggers, cause I used those spells.
Maybe I do sth. wrong.
You try this.

I ran your test trigger, and it does indeed seem that the "Get Corpse" action is bugged! It doesn't run.
However, when I changed the owner of the spawned unit to player 3, I could easily pick up and drop corpses with the wagon as player 1.
So I am not experiencing the bug that you are trying to solve in the first place.
Are you running on the latest version?

 

[The3X]

Man you didn't read the problem properly.

The thing is: Red and teal are building one team who share everything! Units, etc.
Same for blue and purple.
They have "Full unit control".
But if you are teal you cannot order the red meatwagon to get corpse and you cannot use the "Rod of Necromancy" because both skills tell you "no suitable corpse nearby/in range".


That is the main issue.
Thus I'm asking if there is a possibility to give even greater unit control.

 

[The3X]

Just corrected my earlier post.
It was "teal" and not "blue".

Teal can order the units of the red player. But in example teal cannot order the red meatwagon to load a corpse or order the hero to use the Rod of Necromancy.
At least I cannot do it. You can test it too.
Just add a Undead AI Player for red and choose teal colour. When he has a hero and the rod, try to use it.

 

[Eye]

Now i did some tests with my buddy over the LAN and this seemed random in the beginning.
If i set a blue player to be computer (what editor does when you click test button and no other slots are occupied), i can't use some corpse related spells while controlling him, but i can if slot is empty or occupied by a player. This is a bug. But here's interesting part. Sometimes, even if this slot is set to a computer, i can use them abilities, right after auto-cast or while the computer does some stuff.
Test your map with somebody, should work.

 

[The3X]

That sounds very weird.
Alright, gonna try and test it, hopefully soon.

Btw: Was it fun to play?
Should be very much alike the SC2 Archon-Mode. One can build while the other focusses army. In example.

 

[Eye]

Oh, me made a different map for those tests, since i work on 1.26 patch. Game doesn't see the map and the editor can't open it, so me assumed you made it on a newer version. I did write about this here, while i was testing alone, but erased and forgot to mention when new results came up. Looked briefly over the .j file, though.
Maybe we should report this as a bug, ancient one it seems.

 

[Cespie]

Man you didn't read the problem properly.

The thing is: Red and teal are building one team who share everything! Units, etc.
Same for blue and purple.
They have "Full unit control".
But if you are teal you cannot order the red meatwagon to get corpse and you cannot use the "Rod of Necromancy" because both skills tell you "no suitable corpse nearby/in range".


That is the main issue.
Thus I'm asking if there is a possibility to give even greater unit control.

I did read the issue properly. It just seems to be more specific than I imagined. It's a bug though, you should report it.

 

[The3X]

Sorry to warm this up, but I have another problem:

In my Archon mode, 2 players are on one team, only the first has units while the second does have "full unit control".
The problem is, when the second player tries to buy Mercenaries or a Tavern Hero, the game wants him to buy it for himself, thus the second player cannot buy Tavern Heroes, cause he has no Altar, etc.
Is there a possibility to solve this?
So if the second player tries to hire some unit, the first one's dependencies are used and he does get the unit?

Yet I can't thing of a way to solve it, unless I use "Upgrades", but since you cannot undo Upgrades this won't solve the problem, too...

 

[Pyrogasm]

You could give the player a hidden altar just to satisfy the requirements, then change the ownership of the hero when its bought.

 

[The3X]

But then I need to also test, if the real player has a living altar.
And I need to give him HQ on Second/Third grade if the real player has it.
I also need to think bout a system to make it impossible for the second player to hire a hero when red already has reached the limit.
(One on Altar, 2 for HQ second tier, 3 for HQ third tier)

 

[Pyrogasm]

You can check all of those things either periodically or when the hero is hired. If it shouldn't be hireable then refund the cost. You can also mirror the main player's food available/used periodically so that they are subject to the same food cap limitations.

 

[The3X]

Okay I made the following:

Whenever an Altar is built, the teammember gets one altar and its made hidden.
Whenever a Tier 2 HQ is built, the teamember gets one and its made hidden.
Whenever a Tier 3 HQ is built, the teamember gets one by replacing a tier 2 one and its made hidden.

Whenever an Altar, Tier 2/3 HQ is lost, the teammember loses one too.

This works.
However, I can't find a good way to control the Hero built.
The main problem is, that the teammember can hire a second hero although the first player got one from the altar and is on Tier 1. That is because the teammember didnt get a hero on Tier 1 and can build 3 heroes.

I uploaded the map. Feel free to try out few things, mb you get another good idea.

I don't want hero refund. It is hard to manage the refund and it does not serve well as it looks weird. Also the hero is no longer trainable then...