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Roller coaster Models - Looking For Feed Back

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Level 12
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Feb 23, 2008
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587
About
In process of rebuilding roller coaster for windows phone 7.
These are my first 3 models that i have built. Built in 3ds Max (exporting as fbx, for xna)

Looking for feed back. I came here to find what other modelers think.


Models
  • New Version ,898 Polys (shown on post # 10) Old Cart (4,016 Polys) (Shown on this thread)
  • Track (72 Polys)
  • Layout (12,774 Polys)
  • Tree - 64 verts, 120 faces

Track and cart will be quite small most of the time as players will be a bit zoomed out to make there coaster. But when riding the tracks will be big, and the cart, you will see close depending on the camera you pick when riding.


Performance
Windows Phone 7 (Gen 1) - 18-22 FPS
Windows Phone 7 (Gen 2) - 42-46 FPS

Under Most Cases. In some cases Gen 2 will hit down to 25, when trying to view the whole coaster when there's lots of tracks.


Looking For Feed Back
- For that quality of a model, is the poly count high?
- Should the poly count be less? If so where should it be?
- How do the models look?
- is the colors/textures make sense?
- Any suggestions or feed back
 

Attachments

  • Track.png
    Track.png
    711 KB · Views: 2,257
  • Layout.png
    Layout.png
    499.3 KB · Views: 811
  • Cart.png
    Cart.png
    366 KB · Views: 1,793
  • Tree.png
    Tree.png
    611.6 KB · Views: 483
  • Track Wireframe.png
    Track Wireframe.png
    197.2 KB · Views: 414
  • Cart Wireframe.png
    Cart Wireframe.png
    418.1 KB · Views: 499
  • Layout Wireframe.png
    Layout Wireframe.png
    300.6 KB · Views: 1,455
Last edited:
Level 25
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May 31, 2007
Messages
1,443
I think the polygon count is really high. You can lower it by deleting some polygons.
Fence on the Layout can be made with less polygons. For example one polygon for each board or more.
Track looks fine but you can reduce the polygon count by deleting the polygons at the bottom.
Tree trunk on the Layout looks high poly to me, or its just the distance.
Cart is high poly to me. It can be drastically reduces if you want.

Add a sky at the end.

I would suggest that you use some better textures. You can find some free at cgtextures.com

Is this a school project or you are making a real game?
 
Level 31
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Sep 17, 2009
Messages
194
yeah too high poly. I like the models though. You have to keep in mind the distance at which these model will be seen. Maybe you can use two models for the rollercoaster one lowpoly when you see it from far and one with more polygons when you ride the rollercoaster.
-I think 1000-1500 would make the cart look fine both at long and short distance.
-Delete the mesh underneath the objects.
-You can try making 2d trees, like war3 billboarded planes.
 
Level 12
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Feb 23, 2008
Messages
587
@ Both

Thanks for the great feed back. I learning quite a bit. I may not make lots of changes if it ends up running good enough (30 fps+ 90% of the time), but ill likely need to if i want it to run good on the first gen version of windows phone 7. At some point i may make it run in windows 8 app store. or just on a web page in sliver-light.

I may consider porting to star2, if i can get the pitch, to to work on the models with code. (I tired few a few weeks never got it to work)



@ skrab

I think the polygon count is really high. You can lower it by deleting some polygons.

Ok, Got it. I feel it will lose some detail but more on that later.

Fence on the Layout can be made with less polygons. For example one polygon for each board or more.

Hmm. I think you would be able to tell alot of the time, that it only has one side. and isnt 3d. But your right its not a key model. and would serve a close to the same purpose with less polys. Great.

Track looks fine but you can reduce the polygon count by deleting the polygons at the bottom.

Na you can see the tracks when there upside down when riding the coaster, some times, depending on the ride. but most of the time you wouldn't. I guess if i had to lower it i could make the black part on it, flat. like one sided.

Tree trunk on the Layout looks high poly to me, or its just the distance.

Tree - 64 verts, 120 faces on them.

Good question. There used the most in the layout. Lowering them would make a good performance increase. but they start to deform when i lower more then they are. But I guess you cant see the back of them.. i could lower that. you can only seem maybe 70% of the tree, and you can get close if you make tracks near them.

Added Pic to First to First post

Cart is high poly to me. It can be drastically reduces if you want.
Well, If it doesn't slow the game down to much, i may leave it. But if i do lower it i can have 5-10 carts following behind it. But your right its gonna be the size of my toenail or less most of the time.

Add a sky at the end.

I had a sky, i thought was decent but it kept getting in the way in 3ds max, I ended up deleting it on accident but i still have a back up copy with it. I am saving that for last as my older bro thinks that i am doing the sky wrong.


I would suggest that you use some better textures. You can find some free at cgtextures.com

K, better textures on what? You better not be talking about my lighting blots! lol jk. I left the fence and ground texture-less on purpose as the grass texture i used before (the one on the tree) made it harder to build. and was going for more of a cartoonish plain look.

But ill check them out. Thanks

Is this a school project or you are making a real game?

a Real game. Its fairly functional at the moment, I should post it some where... But I been off and on this project for 2 years, i kept getting stuck with the 3d engine in xna. It ended up the whole time, the issue was i was using a messed up model. (Doe!)

Its all based on my war3 version of the game ( Roller Coaster ), with differnt controls as its on a phone.
But I started back up on it a few months ago. (most of the back end was already built 2 years ago).
Ya this is game I hope to get on the win phone 7 with advertisements or someone can pay 2-3 bucks. My brother does pretty good with apps on it, but he just has card games.


@ Tarrasque
yeah too high poly.

I hear ya, I dont guess if your not that close to the model that much detail is pointless.

I like the models though.

Sweet. thats good.

You have to keep in mind the distance at which these model will be seen. Maybe you can use two models for the rollercoaster one low-poly when you see it from far and one with more polygons when you ride the roller-coaster.
-I think 1000-1500 would make the cart look fine both at long and short distance.

I very bright idea. If i can lower the cart model by half with out a huge amount of work, where it still looks decent at a distance this will be done.

Other wise, this is something ill keep in mind if there is performance issues.

You can try making 2d trees, like war3 billboarded planes.

I feel it would look way worse, but it would help huge on performance. so likely this is something that i should at least try. and even if it does look worse if the performance goes up enough i may be able to have the game run on differently with win 7 phone (gen 1) and win 7 phone (gen 2)
 
Level 31
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Sep 17, 2009
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I feel it would look way worse, but it would help huge on performance. so likely this is something that i should at least try. and even if it does look worse if the performance goes up enough i may be able to have the game run on differently with win 7 phone (gen 1) and win 7 phone (gen 2)

I dont think it would look bad. I always liked mario 64 trees. See attachment.
mario1.jpg
 
Level 12
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Feb 23, 2008
Messages
587
@ Both

-Trees + Performance

Great, Multiple ways i can do trees that look good, with very low polys.


-Issues with my "Normals"

I am currently having Issues with "normals" if that's what you call them. I have been reading up on it, and read how to change it in 3ds max and also how to tell. But its still not coming out right. So that will be my major focus for now. Correct me if i am wrong, but on each face by default it only renders one side, and does the light work for one side.

---What I have tried

In 3ds max, i am using Views -> xView -> Face Orientation to show what side the normal is on. Then in editable Poly I am selecting a face, or faces and right clicking, Then selecting Flip Normals.

It seems like in 3ds max i have it right, but it only seems to work some times in xna (in my game) but ill figure it out.



@ skrab

Trees, you can make them like this...

Looks alot better then i would have thought.


If alpha channels are supported by the engine.

I am pretty sure is is.


Next time post wireframe images.

Added to First Post.



@ Tarrasque

I don't think it would look bad. I always liked mario 64 trees. See attachment

ya that looks way better then i figured it would.
 
Level 14
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The trees on the 2nd attachment are a bit too static (has a certain pattern),the cart is looks awesome but too many polies (polys?)
Anyway, good luck on the game rover!
 
Level 12
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Messages
587
Issue with model

- I am finding my texture is being shown really dark, on some spots and other spots Super bright (Only on the lighting blot texture)
- I was able to make some effect by just tilting the face with the texture.

But then i decided to rebuild it, low poly and high poly.
I tried tilting the face with the texture and am getting very little effect. And even with trying that it seems to have no effect.
Even with a plane the texture shows up really dark (nothing like in 3ds max, or the screen shot hard to tell its not just black).

So I think i will run this model with no lighting in the game and just put the lighting on to the skin or bitmap... (I have no idea how to do this...)
(so far on my models they have just pointed to a texture for certain faces, or like the tree, it has 2 textures.)




Its great to be modeler

On a side note, Its great to be learning to model, even if its just a little bit. I have feel like i have wasted most of a week for a model that will be the size of my toe nail in the game, and i had in ok model before a friend did (a few years ago as hes first model). Likely wasn't the best use of my time, other things would have made more diff for the game.

But Its great to not feel limited on what i can do, I remember when i did roller coaster for war 3, i would spend weeks going back and forth with people trying to get a track model right and a cart model. In the end the community made them for me it. But I wish i would have learned to model sooner!

@ Xian

The trees on the 2nd attachment are a bit too static (has a certain pattern)

If I end up keeping the trees i have, ill make them vary a bit more.
I still like them better then the other options presented to me here, but on win 7 phone gen 1 I could add 3-5 fps by switching the trees out with the options people have presented in this forum so i may do both, and have a option to change settings.

the cart is looks awesome

Thats good lol. Only took me a week. But 90% of the time was learning what i was doing.

but too many polies (polys?)

Well your in luck, Due to me messing somthing up rolyeling on it, and not geting it to display right in the game i rebuilding the frame. I figure ill make two a low poly first, goal 1/3 of my current model. and then high poly 2/3 current model.

I finished a side today of the frame so i should be able to finish today if i get 2-3 hours.


Anyway, good luck on the game rover!

Thanks! I didnt know how the comminity here would take it, as its not for mod. But I have found that people are still here to help and give feed back. Its been really helpful.

but who knows maybe when i finish ill port it to starcraft. should only take me a few days, if i can get the stupid change pitch on a unit to work.
 
Last edited:
Level 12
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Feb 23, 2008
Messages
587
@ eubz

Is this for a single cart that you used 800+ polies?

Is 900 alot (898)? It was 4k but people told me that was to much, and suggested i bring it down to 1-.5k, I may add 200 more polys to make the sides much more round. but not sure its needed.

I brought down quite a bit by not rounding sides that arnt being shown. and not rounding things by another factor. more then half the of ploys are in the seat belt thingy. what ever its called.

I don't know how much poly did I use in creating my jeep, though.

K, if you find out show me a link, so i can compare to see if how i am doing in comparison.


I like this model, man.

Thanks, That's always good to hear.

High poly models really have good smoothing.
So if i wanted a high poly version of this model i make it have better smoothing is that what you mean?
I could add 100-200 polys to make the sides have much less edge it would look as round on the sides as the first one On Post # 1.
But not sure its needed.
 
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