Rising Quality Standards

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Topic: Rising Quality Standards (For maps and reviewing)

Usually, I would type up a detailed explanation of the situation and give my opinions on it spanned across a few paragraphs, but I want to know what you guys think about this topic first. After a few replies I'll probably give my two cents.

 

[Shadow Fury]

A rise in the quality standard is mandatory. Nowadays I just see poor maps (in my opinion they're poor) being approved. As you may have noticed, there are some maps which I've voted for "awaiting update" but got approved anyway. With that I don't mean moderators were wrong but simply that the standard of approval should be higher.

 

[Chaosy]

According to me, I don't see why a bad map shouldn't be approved. Because there are no problems with playing it. However, then it would be approved with the 1/5 rating or whatever.

Make it harder to get a 3/5 sure. Make it harder to get approved, no.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Shadow Fury, why do you say "nowadays" so frequently when you don't know how it was before? I had a chat with previous map moderators and such to see how things were so I can learn from it. I won't use my join date as a credible source as I've only been registered less than a year before you have.

Early Hive (2004-2007+?), any maps that worked and were somewhat fun were accepted. During Middle Hive (Early Hive to 2012), the standards were raised. The map submission rules were more strict, but maps were still approved with 2/5s. So what about now? Well, it seems like more and more people are voting for needs fix. I won't put anyone to blame for it, because it isn't all bad. But to bluntly put it, that needs to change.

Why should the standards be higher in the first place? It's already rising, but I want to know why you want such a change.

My opinion is that it should be lowered back to what it was in 2013-2014. It's not our intention to force people to change their maps if they aren't breaking any rule besides chipping quality rule. If they are breaking other rules, sure, vote for the them to be awaiting updates. But if a map's quality is "meh" (below average - fair), then vote for approval with a 2/5, 3/5, or even no rating. Why? So the majority is happy.

~Open for friendly debate ;D~

 

[Shadow Fury]

It's precisely because I wasn't here in the past that I say "nowadays".
Anyway, if you still want to keep the standards as they are (because from what you're saying there's no signs of rising it) and approving maps that get like 2/5, do it, I won't oppose you but don't expect that I'll vote for approval to specific maps.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

It's precisely because I wasn't here in the past that I say "nowadays".

Fair enough. I'm just used to seeing the word 'nowadays' in the context of of someone comparing something from the past that they've witnessed to the present.

Anyway, if you still want to keep the standards as they are (because from what you're saying there's no signs of rising it)

What do you mean by "you're saying there's no signs of rising it"? Are you implying that I'm saying there is no reason to raise the standards, it isn't rising in the first place, or neither?

I won't oppose you but don't expect that I'll vote for approval to specific maps.

Well, I'll be the person giving a business card to you. "If you change your mind, you know what to do."

 

[Shadow Fury]

What I mean is that if you make it harder to get a 3/5, for example, but the standard for approval is the same, nothing changes for me, really. To raise the standards of quality, we need to raise the standard of approval, not of ratings but because you do not seem to agree, I can't do anything for it.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Things will change if people know that the mods are not handing out high ratings (I'm not saying they are), and that will probably encourage them to work a bit more on their maps, before they submit them.
Approval standards should be left as they are.

 

[Chaosy]

Well, it seems like more and more people are voting for needs fix. I won't put anyone to blame for it, because it isn't all bad. But to bluntly put it, that needs to change.

Now that you mention it.. I do that a lot.. now I feel retarded for speaking against myself -.-

Basically I almost never say "REJECTED" because I think a map can be fixed/updated pretty easily. So often when I vote for awaiting update it's so the map can get a higher rating when the map mod actually come to rate it.

because if I vote for approval the chance of him improving / changing the map is obviously smaller.

 

[sonofjay]

Things will change if people know that the mods are not handing out high ratings (I'm not saying they are), and that will probably encourage them to work a bit more on their maps, before they submit them.

No. Those guys will go to epicwar instead. Instead of turning them off by rejecting the map why not help them improve it from there(please, don't mock me with the there is a map development for that speech, they probably don't know it and if the map is there already then just help them on the spot instead of throwing them on the map development forum where it is really a survival of the fittest).

Anyway, about the proposal of increasing the standards for maps. I don't fully agree on that unless it is only directed to maps that will be awarded of 5/5 or DC. For me, fun and functional map even if its unpolished and unoriginal should be approve even if it will only get a no rating approval or a 3/5. That is like spilling water from a already half-empty glass.

 

[Shadow Fury]

Then can you tell me what were the Map Submission Rules made for? If you see a map which is original but has a terrible terrain, you'd approve it from what you're saying (no contradictions on this point) yet the rules clearly state the map should have some decent terrain.

Another point is that there are already 273 pages of approved maps (which means about 5460 [273x20] maps). Now I wonder: "Why approving poor maps which are just a bit funny if there are thousands of such examples already present?". This is why I think the standard of approval should be highered but I know that this will not happen sadly. Uh, the decision is up to you.

 

[Chaosy]

I understand where you're coming from SF, approving an absolutely inferior map is quite pointless. HOWEVER, if we were to only approve maps that are better than the old ones, we would have one map per genre. How fun would that be overall?

Additionally, even if 99% of all maps are approved. People would still mostly play maps with a mod rating of 3/5 or higher. So I think you're over-concerning yourself.

 

[Shadow Fury]

Nah, I am over-concerning myself. It will not surely concern me so much if poor maps are approved. But my point is that one day we'll become like epicwar with countless poor maps and a few good ones.

 

[sonofjay]

Did I ever say that map with shitty terrain should be approve? No I didn't, I only said fun and functional nothing less and nothing more. Anything else are really up to the reviewer's liking.

And Hive becoming an epicwar comment is just plain exaggeration, Hive is almost a decade years old(more than that if you'll count wc3sear.ch day) but it never happened even after all this years that a lot of maps that are just plain fun and functional being uploaded and approved. You're being paranoid of an event that will never happen.

This increasing the quality bullshit will just kill the main purpose of many modders like myself and that is making warcraft3 map as a hobby.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

This increasing the quality bullshit will just kill the main purpose of many modders like myself and that is making warcraft3 map as a hobby.

True.

 

[Chaosy]

This increasing the quality bullshit will just kill the main purpose of many modders like myself and that is making warcraft3 map as a hobby.

I don't know about that.
Is it easy to become a pro -insert something here-? likely not. Do people still try? hell yeah, there are thousands of people trying no mater what profession.
It's not less fun to create something because it doesn't get 5/5 once it's finished.

The above is assuming we're making it harder to get X/5, while getting approved remains the same or lower.

 

[Shadow Fury]

We're going to see if the "paranoid" (lol?) will be correct or not after a few years if the standard of approval remains the same.

 

[sonofjay]

No you'll not be correct because a few years from now Hive will be lucky enough to have like 4-5 maps uploaded per week.

 

[Shadow Fury]

Of course I wish to be incorrect. Only time will tell us.

 

[sonofjay]

Only time will tell us.

Sorry boy but we're already seeing it. Hive's pending section had never been like it used to be. We're like getting 1 or 2 maps per day now when it used to be way more before.

 

[Daffa]

SonofJay, about the map upload, yeah, it's been down and lowering with each passing day. There's no sign of major rising since 2013, as far as I'm aware though.

Shadow Fury, no, we're not epicwar and we stay that way. I'm aware that there are ~5460 maps at our database, and half of them are mostly from 2006-2009, when there was about ~1000 maps pending at the time. Some are broken since 1.24 (2009/2010 was it?)

 

[Shadow Fury]

First, I do not like to be called "boy"
Second, nobody can predict with certainty the future (including me clearly) so still I repeat "Only time will tell us who will be correct" and "I hope to be incorrect because becoming like epicwar would be terrible."
I wish I've been clear enough.

 

[Chaosy]

Sorry boy but we're already seeing it. Hive's pending section had never been like it used to be. We're like getting 1 or 2 maps per day now when it used to be way more before.

Do you suggest that the decrease in maps is because of higher standards and not because wc3 is getting old and less new players try it?

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Keep the argumemts civil and less insulting.

 

[Shadow Fury]

There are no insults or offenses here don't worry.

 

[sonofjay]

Nah, no one is insulting anyone, heck, probably one of the most civilized conversation here on hive.

Do you suggest that the decrease in maps is because of higher standards and not because wc3 is getting old and less new players try it?

Nah, I'm implying that Hive's upload rate is going down pretty fast that increasing the standard for map approval will just make it worse.

@Shadow, first of all I'm sorry for calling you "boy" but its just one of my way of calling someone here and in real life and no one gets offended by it even if its someone way older than me.

I agree that no one can predict the future but you can also cannot deny the fact that map's uploading rate is going down hill and it will just continue as long as Blizzard isn't no one is doing something for this game. I love Warcraft 3 and will love to see it blossom again but I don't want to cling for it to happen cause I know it will never happen and it'll just break my heart.

Lets probably end it here. We've all said our opinions already and it will just keep dragging as it is obvious that here is no changing anybody's minds here.