RED RAVEN v1.02.1

[A]mun]

Omg!
To enter a name the player has to write in all chat! < very important (this took me some time to figure out)

How to progress after using the phase skill succesfully to cross the river in the east?
The beginning of any given map shouldn't be too vague, so players can acquaint themselves with its mechanics.

 

[Ungoliath]

I had no idea about the all chat thing!

Do you mean after the cutscene? I'm trying to give hints on where to go in the NPC dialogue (I could have made that part a bit more clear)

EDIT: To avoid confusion I made an updated character creation screen, where it states that you have to type in the "all chat".

 

[A]mun]

Alright i'll give it a second try later.

Ok i went past the wolf boss, some things coming to mind:
-gold coins are too hard to click
-where to put all those items? with their vague descriptions it's hard to tell if you need them to advance
-why can you kill most of the npc characters?
-what is it with this trend of removing the minimap?
-takes pretty long to complete for a "minimap", not necessarily a bad thing

All in all the voice acting and graphical design make this one pretty unique. I think the gameplay feels a tad too sluggish. The orb system is neat in concept, but rather tedious to pull off constantly.
- it actually speeds up somewhat with new spells and bran scrolls

 

[Ungoliath]

Thanks for the feedback! And thanks for testing my map.

You brought up some solid points:

- Gold: I'm really torn on this issue, as I agree that they're hard to click. I dislike the original gold coin model and prefer this - more diabloish - version. If I knew how to edit the hitbox (?) of the model, I would very much like to make it larger.

- Items: In the main chapel there's a ring which spawns Soul Echoes upon the death of a Soul Orb. Picking up items with this Soul Echo teleports them to the chapel. As for inventory space, you unlock additional slots (in the spirit's inventory) with each crystal you find. Could you elaborate on when you felt unsure about a certain item?

- Killable NPCs: I really like having this option, as none of the killable NPCs are necessary to complete the story. I know for a fact that some people enjoy playing the "bad guy" in games, i.e. "no mercy".

- Minimap: The minimap served little purpose aside from taking up visual space. Removing it also calls for the players to familiarize themselves with the layout of each area. This take may not be for everyone, and that is completely okay.

- Length: Haha, yeah, I was worried that it may be too long. When I play through it I usually complete it in around 50 min, but if you really take your time, read everything and explore each area, then the playtime may be around 1-2 hours.

- Gameplay: I understand that it can become a bit tedious -- I suppose that I wanted to create a more strategic combat with slower pace, rather than going for faster action. My goal was also to ramp up the speed as you progress (introduce more spells, items which spawns orbs, etc.). I will however continue to polish the gameplay.

 

[Veritas 117]

This looks really interesting. It has a very “dark souls” vibe. I loved diablo 2 and dark souls for their gothic theme and I think you nailed it. I will check this out when I have some time to play through it.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Map appears to be functional & doesn't break any rules.
Approved.

 

[Urain]

Witcher meets Darksouls in Warcraft?

 

[Ungoliath]

Haha, I suppose you could call it that! With a nice touch of Soul Reaver, of course

 

[Otherknownoise]

Is there not-reforged version? I'd love to play but I don't have reforge.

 

[Ungoliath]

The map should work for anyone using the current WC3 patch (or at least 1.32). This map was made with standard graphics and is locked to that mode. You don't have to buy reforged, only patch the game. If I'm wrong on this, please let me know!

If you're asking for a version compatible with 1.31 (or earlier patches), I'm afraid this version is the only one available.

 

[Devalut]

Update?
Sweet!

 

[Ungoliath]

Yeah, I took much of what you said into consideration and found some pretty good solutions (the gold coin model's hitbox still needs more tweaking though). It feels great to finally have the map in a good place!

 

[Calciumcarbonat]

Wow what an amazing work! I really enjoyed my time with it.
But did I miss any mechanic to refill the mana.
Some enemies seem to be impossible to overcome without a big mana pool, so I often found my self dieing on purpose, to get my mana back.
Overall, very cool game!

 

[Ungoliath]

@Calciumcarbonat Thanks! That's awesome to hear.

There are currently two ways of refilling your mana: either by attacking a Soul Orb (your F ability), which gives you 70 mana, or by leveling up, which fully restores your mana.

I didn't want to include items such as mana potions as I feared that they would become a necessity throughout the whole game, and thus fill up an inventory slot.

Thanks for playing my map!

 

[Greenheart]

Fantastic work on the atmosphere both with visuals and sound!

Also like the character selection + gameplay with unique abilities (compared to standard Wc3).

One thing I found hard though was the unclear beginning. Took me a while to figure out where to go since I might have missed important details in the intro.

Specificially, the yellow rune marker plays a sound but doesn't do anything else like the others. It's probably a puzzle and not a bug but I'm not sure.

 

[Ungoliath]

Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Ah, that yellow rune is like a thorn in my side haha. Unlike other runes, I made this one timed so that players could learn the concept of switching places with their Looking-glass self. The only problem is that the gate is not in view when you touch the rune, thus making it more difficult to connect the two. That is also why the rune doesn't disappear, unlike other runes. I only added the 'ticking' sound later to make the player understand that the rune, in fact, is time-based. I'll have to come up with something else, I think.

When you say "unclear beginning", was it only this part of the tutorial area that you had issues with? I would love to know! And it seems that you eventually managed to figure it out? What made it finally click?

 

[Whiteagle]

We don't deserve to play map of this quality

 

[deepstrasz]

1. Music plays through the sound channel (selection menu) instead of the one for music.
2. Although Phase's cooldown is low, you can't teleport each time you use the spell.
3. The Storm King sometimes stops after doing some spell and also might return to the initial position it came from instead of following.
4. Not sure the werewolf's spheres actually deal any damage.
5. You could destroy the seal west of Annstas if you have enough patience.
6. Concentrated bolts can be selected.
7. The dude in the chapel isn't invulnerable.
8. Fire can be selected.
9. The scroll abilities don't do anything to the Soul Orbs if I don't have the fire scroll item.
10. I think that if you use the Magic Wand on units, their allies won't come to aid as if you'd damage them with the normal attack.
11. I spammed Z and I got static wand FX leftovers:
    
12. Enemies should follow you otherwise it's easy to kill them by drawing them out and waiting for them to leave to their initial position while attacking them.
13. Do I need the Stained Parchment for anything?
14. Pedestals can be attacked.
15. Would be nice if the hero didn't attack by himself because he has high range and spamming orbs might get interrupted because enemies will come. This is especially annoying during boss fights where you need your orbs to go where you want not where the hero autoattacks.
    
16. Can't find the dude I saved from the dungeon. South, there's a forcewall and there's a book and gem or something that can be seen from the zone's eastern part but I see no cabin there.
17. The northern Sister of Thorn didn't attack when I used orbs on her.
    
18. Loading the game enables the command card UI and minimap:
    
19. And the Blue Raven crippled my movement speed permanently. With Boots of the Meek I've got Fast but without, Average movement speed instead of Very Fast and Fast. Dying fixed it, indeed.
    
20. Would be nice to have a waypoint after dying without needing to use the healing too. Got teleported to the dungeon instead of to the nearest which was right after the Blue Raven.
21. Dying erases the hero's CTRL+1 group and changes the item order in the inventory.
22. Ghosts shouldn't die like normal women sound and all.
23. Can't see anymore subtitles because the UI's broken. Also, that black raven sounds like crap. You can't understand what he's saying.
24. OK, weirdly, the UI came back to normal after the scene when you meet the black-yellow dude.
25. If you keep a scroll on the spirit, you cannot pick one with the hero.
26. There's music through the sound channel in the end cinematic scenes.

So, I couldn't find the creep who couldn't speak, there were some forcewalls south that I didn't know how to deactivate. Also, I don't know how to break the red seal in the northwest. Probably needs a darkness wand? I don't remember finding one.
What use for the Sunlight Grass?

Got Blood Omen+Soul Reaver vibes in the start but I guess this is more Dark Souls inspired. Haven't played that series.

 

[Ungoliath]

@Whiteagle You are too kind, thank you for playing my map!

@deepstrasz Huge thank you for the feedback, your opinions are always on point and very much appreciated

I'll try to touch on them one by one:

1. For cinematics and one time triggers I often go with music as simple sounds. There's no reason for this really, aside from the fact that I know it won't repeat itself, and I don't have to clear the music list afterwards. For boss fights I always use the music channel.
2. Do you mean teleport to the location of your Looking-glass self? The teleportation has a cooldown (10 sec or something), and there is a blue special effect that indicates that the teleport is once again available. I tested this with no cooldown -- it was insanely OP.
3. I'm aware of this, and I don't really know why it happens... The pause after using rocket swarm has always been a thing (I've chosen to see it as giving the player an opportunity to attack). The weird position reset I would very much like to fix though, ignoring the guard position did nothing. I'm open to suggestions!
4. They do! Maybe there was a hitbox error, or maybe it glitched out? Or did you choose an easier difficulty at the gravestone?
5. Haha, really? If I remember correctly I maxed out the HP and HP regen... Oh well!
6. This involves fire, and other effects, as well: the reason why they're selectable is because they have auras which negatively affects enemies, and for some reason these won't work if the unit (fire, ice, lightning, etc) has locust. I'm open to suggestions!
7. Indeed, all NPCs are targetable! Some are even killable. I wanted to have that freedom, like if you want to go for a dark and twisted character haha. Or just to practice spells.
8. Check 6.
9. I'm confused, could you elaborate a bit about these scroll abilities? Was fire the only available scroll to you? Like, the only one that would turn Soul Orbs into elemental orbs?
10. Interesting point, I'll have to figure out how to fix that...
11. Ah man, really? And here I thought the triggers were bulletproof. Were these effects there permanently or did they eventually vanish?
12. Hmm, maybe I'll tweak their guard positions? I would want to extend the range, not remove it entirely.
13. Who knows?

Spoiler

You don't

14. You mean the teleportation statues? Or the checkpoint gravestones?
15. I couldn't agree more. I like his range, but I would really like to make it so he won't auto-attack. I tried to lower his acquisition range, but then he wouldn't utilize his full range. Then again, this would remove the tactic of running around, then A+left-click anywhere to quickly launch some orbs
16. This one extends pretty far, and involves quite a lot of side content

Spoiler

If you really want to know... the secret is in the description of the Sunlight Grass.

When the Blue Raven dies, her raven returns to its nest, which lies just northwest of the arena. The grass allows one to speak with animals (which is why you hear the voices of the Black Raven's dogs, and allows you to predict from where they'll strike first), and with it you can venture south and be reunited with your friend from the dungeon. He also provides a mean to venture past gates sealed by...

Spoiler

arcane

17. Do you mean the one looking over the cliff? She's passive at first, and then she turns around and attacks you. Perhaps this didn't happen for you?
18. Loading the game seem to turn many maps upside down, I suspected that mine would be no different.
19. I've included this error in the map description, and it suuucks. I don't know why it happens, but a temporary solution is to respawn. This creates an entirely different unit for you, and thus fixes the movement speed. This is also why it is no longer in any control group.
20. Wait, did the checkpoint by the Blue Raven not register your save state? Or did you venture back to the dungeon, then back to the Blue Raven, only to be greeted by a cooldown? The reason the cooldown is there is to prevent players from going and healing non-stop, but I guess that this could be solved by dividing it into two options: set checkpoint (no CD), and heal (CD)
21. Check 19.
22. Agreed! I don't know much about sound editing in the model editor, but perhaps I could play a ghostly death sound upon their death? And instead of them falling over, they could vanish with a ghastly special effect
23. Was the UI messed up after loading the game? Or was it like that throughout the whole game? Haha, please elaborate on the Black Raven's voice! This is valuable information. Seeing as he's wearing a helmet, I chose to speak into a coffee cup and then added a distortion to convey his underlying twistedness. For now I'm content, but I'm sure the voice could be improved. I also recorded with a stereo mic, which could maybe affect things. Were you using headphones? Also, this is how the Black Raven cutscene plays for me, notice any differences?

Spoiler: Black Raven

24. Great news! Which black-yellow dude? The black raven? Or the yellow raven?
25. This is correct, as the spirit is essentially an extension of your inventory, at least when it comes to magical items. You can give him your fire scroll and it won't affect your ability to conjure Fire Orbs. Same thing with wands. So if your spirit carries your wand and scroll, you'll have to use Soul Echoes to send those you find back to the Annstás Chapel.
26. Check 1.

Thanks for playing, man! I love this type of feedback. Sorry for the long answers, you don't have to respond to everything hehe.

It's very much a mix of things, I've always loved Legacy of Kain for its dialogue and story telling, and Souls for its atmosphere and way of delivering information about its world. That's awesome that you got those vibes!

 

[deepstrasz]

Spoiler: replies

3. I'm aware of this, and I don't really know why it happens... The pause after using rocket swarm has always been a thing (I've chosen to see it as giving the player an opportunity to attack). The weird position reset I would very much like to fix though, ignoring the guard position did nothing. I'm open to suggestions!

Maybe the unit needs to be forced to attack with a periodic event? Or if you could create a sort of event+condition that can verify if the boss is attacking (not moving) or is acquiring a target, if not order the unit to attack/attack+move to the hero's position.

4. They do! Maybe there was a hitbox error, or maybe it glitched out? Or did you choose an easier difficulty at the gravestone?

Well, I think I chose Story Mode or something. Realized later those were actually difficulties and not game modes.

Haha, really? If I remember correctly I maxed out the HP and HP regen... Oh well!

You could just make them invulnerable and die out when you trigger the specific orb near them.

This involves fire, and other effects, as well: the reason why they're selectable is because they have auras which negatively affects enemies, and for some reason these won't work if the unit (fire, ice, lightning, etc) has locust. I'm open to suggestions!

In that case you could create dummy units that are hidden for the aura effects and add locust to the particles or what you'd call them.

I'm confused, could you elaborate a bit about these scroll abilities? Was fire the only available scroll to you? Like, the only one that would turn Soul Orbs into elemental orbs?

No, don't worry. I didn't understand what the scroll abilities did the first time. I got the idea afterwards.

Interesting point, I'll have to figure out how to fix that...

Damage detection system. If a unit takes damage and the owner of the damage is the hero, send all nearby units to attack the hero.

Ah man, really? And here I thought the triggers were bulletproof. Were these effects there permanently or did they eventually vanish?

They remained there until the end of the game. Perhaps even after, who knows

Hmm, maybe I'll tweak their guard positions? I would want to extend the range, not remove it entirely.

Or maybe they could regenerate when out of combat (in their initial positions/region).

You mean the teleportation statues? Or the checkpoint gravestones?

The ones where you put the books in Albrecht's library.

16. This one extends pretty far, and involves quite a lot of side content

Oh, well, yeah, I guess I should have reexplored the zones for that plant but maybe you could give a hint with a sort of nest/perch doodad.

Do you mean the one looking over the cliff? She's passive at first, and then she turns around and attacks you. Perhaps this didn't happen for you?

When the other one appeared they both became enemies but only the one on the left responded when being hit by orbs.

Loading the game seem to turn many maps upside down, I suspected that mine would be no different.

Well, you could mention it in known issues. I don't remember seeing that there.
This sort of map however, cannot be always be played in one go. Also, since cinematic scene fixes it, I suggest that when you load you trigger cinematic mode on and off.

19. I've included this error in the map description, and it suuucks. I don't know why it happens, but a temporary solution is to respawn. This creates an entirely different unit for you, and thus fixes the movement speed. This is also why it is no longer in any control group.

Couldn't you just use a trigger to reset the unit's movement speed? If not, there's probably a trigger that acts periodically. Also, it could be a permanent invisible buff?

. Wait, did the checkpoint by the Blue Raven not register your save state?

Did not when I came near it. I assume I had to use its ability which afterwards has a cooldown. So I think you shouldn't necessarily use that ability to get the waypoint working.

but I guess that this could be solved by dividing it into two options: set checkpoint (no CD), and heal (CD)

Yeah, that's what I mean.

23. Was the UI messed up after loading the game? Or was it like that throughout the whole game?

It started happening after loading the game and got fixed by the following cinematic scene after it ended.

Haha, please elaborate on the Black Raven's voice! This is valuable information. Either our tastes may differ, or it could be because I recorded with a stereo mic. Were you using headphones? Also, this is how the Black Raven cutscene plays for me, notice any differences?

I mean it's the least intelligible from all the custom voices. It's too distorted. Without subtitles I have a really hard time understanding and it so happened that the UI was broken right before that scene and the end of it fixed it.
No, I don't use headphones regularly. It's hearing affecting. Besides, I don't like stuff heard in my head like hearing voices.

24. Great news! Which black-yellow dude? The black raven? Or the yellow raven?

Wait, there's two? The one in that video. Thanks for it.

Gonna go meet the dude now. Only I have to fight the necromancer again since cheats don't work

EDIT: never mind the perch/nest thing. It's pretty obvious once you move around. Sorry, I just didn't pay enough attention to the item's description.

1. The Grotesque could follow you better. I left Waltz of the Fireflies and it consumed half of its HP.
2. Amulet of Blood's icon=Madoc's Lucky Necklace.
3. Would be nice to redistribute points since I found the Wand of Necromancy and for boni it wants the other attributes too.
4. Anywhere I can find the last two books?
5. Ugh, Wand of Arcane wants 1 skill point to be bought :\ Don't have any. Am level 9 and only the last boss is left.

EDIT: ah, also, maybe you'd want to slow the turn rate of the eagle for the 2nd ending as it moves too staccato.

Forgot to ask, when/how did you have time to finish this map for a mini-map contest ?

 

[Ungoliath]

@deepstrasz Dude, your feedback has been awesome! Now I know what to focus on for the next patch (1.03), before i delve into the huge content patch (1.1).

Forgot to ask, when/how did you have time to finish this map for a mini-map contest ?

Haha I really have no idea, but I would like to think that was because of effective planning. I love working in Google Docs when I'm making maps, for there I can write out the script, gameplay mechanics and just keep fun ideas stored for later use (when I eventually sit down and open the world editor), and thus get into a pretty great flow, as I know what to do. Thanks to this I've found that I often think about say boss #3 whilst creating boss #2, and so on.

Anywhere I can find the last two books? View attachment 363459

In case you didn't find them:

Spoiler

To find these tomes you need to return to the first dungeon with the

Spoiler

necromancy scroll

Rhein, the birdman you find in the dungeon, gives you a hint of that particular unexplored part of the labyrinth

 

[deepstrasz]

In case you didn't find them:

I don't remember. Hmm. Gonna check it out! Thanks.

EDIT:
Hey, got me thinking. One way you could make the attack work is eliminating auto-attack by making the enemy neutral and ordering the hero to attack the enemy when you right click them. You could also do it with pressing A and left clicking on the enemies like you do with the orbs, which begs the question, wouldn't left clicking the orbs be better if the hero would actually attack them? That would help with time wasting on first commanding attack and then selecting the enemy/orb.

1. Symbol of the Moon looks passive.
2. Would be nice to create a place to store the scrolls. I have to remember where I left them :| Similarly with the wands.
3. Any other spells after Gethin's Requiem?
4. Dreamy Clergymen attack through the walls with their green stuff.
5. Anything to open with the Scroll of Blood?

Also, Madoc looks like William.

 

[Ungoliath]

@deepstrasz Love the idea! I would certainly like to have that as an alternative which you can turn on and off. Detonating orbs by left-clicking would no doubt feel more fluid, but it would also withhold information such as remaining HP (which constantly goes down. Regular timers didn't work well with replaced untis), and the name of that particular orb. But it would certainly be nice to have that as an option.

1. Noted!
2. I've been thinking about that as well, as they usually end up in a pile inside the chapel. If I were to make a storage for wands and scrolls, I think that I would have to figure out how retrieving such an item would work, and how the Spirit's inventory system can work with such a "deposit and retrieve" kind of system.
3. Not as of right now!
4. They're based on carrion swarm, so unfortunately yea. If only pathing blockers could block regular spells...
5. Nooo, I don't think so (bad memory).

Spoiler

I think there are quite a few gates sealed by Arcane though. Like in the northwest, and in the east, by Ceinwen's Secret Study.

Regarding Madoc and William, there certainly is a connection there (I believe Madoc drops an item which mentions the "curse of william", it could be the "unidentified sorcery" scroll). I wanted to make a unique variant of the bull demon, but due to time constraints I had to go for the same skin.

 

[deepstrasz]

it would also withhold information such as remaining HP (which constantly goes down.

Well, if you play with the health bars on, it they should show the degrading life?

Yeah, about the Arcane, I found two gates, if I'm not mistaken, I think one was something with bio porcelain and the other with info on Vlad or some sisters of blood.

2. I've been thinking about that as well, as they usually end up in a pile inside the chapel. If I were to make a storage for wands and scrolls, I think that I would have to figure out how retrieving such an item would work, and how the Spirit's inventory system can work with such a "deposit and retrieve" kind of system.

Well, if you want it to be global, then make a hero backpack (with none.mdl as its model so it can't be selected but only via the hero icon or F[number] key) and you could have that hero backpack carry wands and scrolls via some inventory abilities with pages. If you don't want it globally, then make these inventories static in the chapel as some sort of shops/neutral buildings.

So, anyways, thanks for this wonderful experience.

 

[Ungoliath]

@deepstrasz I should be the one thanking you for the awesome feedback, and of course, for playing my map.

Hope you'll revisit after patch 1.1, which is planned to be a huge content update (i.e. old school expansion with new characters, bosses, and a new separate story that builds upon the existing one).

 

[deepstrasz]

Hope you'll revisit after patch 1.1, which is planned to be a huge content update (i.e. old school expansion with new characters, bosses, and a new separate story that builds upon the existing one).

That sounds very savoury.

 

[OutSideAlone]

Ungoliath, is there chance to see 1.31.1 compatible version of this map?

 

[Ungoliath]

@OutSideAlone There are currently no plans to make a version compatible with 1.31.1, at least as of right now. I might however give it a try after patch 1.1, when I feel that the map is fully complete.

For my next singleplayer RPG I will have a 1.31.1 version though, along with a current patch version.

 

[OutSideAlone]

There are many people who play on <1.31.1 versions still.
It would be omega great if good maps are playable on not only current version of Warcraft III.