Ravnica: City of Guilds

[Zanam]

I've been toying with the idea of a map involving the world in Magic: The Gathering's Ravnica novel series and associated game lore. This is what I've come with, in an attempt to be somewhat original.

The entire map will be divided into territories, each of the 10 guilds starting off with a few near their main base. You will have two generals who will be able to claim territories with their troops. Upon attacking an enemy territory, you won't actually be participating in the fight, you can see it unfold if you wish, or continue with your tactical planning. The attacking and defending units will participate in a 'Castle Fight'-sort of combat in a designated area, where neither player can directly control their units.

Your troops on the 'overworld map' can be loaded directly into a territory outpost or a general, up to 12 units. These transported troops are the ones that participate in the offense or defense (i.e., the 6 troops in an outpost will defend it when attacked, or 11 troops in a general will be the ones helping him to attack a territory). The units will be immensely scaled down and multiplied during the battle sequences to give a more war-like feel to the fight.

Each territory will be able to have a couple of buildings created on it, that will aid in military production, defense, or economic production.

Anyone who is familiar with the Ravnica lore and is interested in helping me with creating the world, I could use some help. I have a map drawn up of how I'd like the territories to be arranged, but I am terrible at terraining in WC3.

(P.S... looking for a shoutout from RakdosTheDefiler, i'm sure he'd be interested in this.)

 

[Modo]

Ravnica rocks. I only played the first part of the trilogy but I really like the Dimir (Black and Blue Guild).

I think the style of gameplay is a lot like Risk, an overly used concept. If you focused on one Guild and had an RPG from its perspective, or made an Altered Melee that starts with a dialogue box which lets you choose your Guild, it would be best.

I still like the idea and once I see some sort of outline, I will try to help.

 

[Zanam]

Actually I realized the 'risk factor' after playing the B.net version for the first time and decided to change up some things. I've come up with some ways to make it a little different and unique in it's own way.

Instead of using transports, the units will be on the main map, no mini-battleground that they are transported to. You still, however, will be unable to directly control them. Instead, you can add them to the Generals' respective armies, and where the General goes, the army will automatically follow. You can direct them via battle orders, that will send the entire army to do what you command.

I'm having a bit of trouble, however... I can't figure out exactly how to implement the disabling of the UI for the units without transferring control to a dummy player. I know maps such as 'Castle Fight' keep units under the control of the owner but disable the owner being able to influence them directly.

On a side note, since I got stuck on this one, I dug up an old map that needs finishing... another Magic project, similar to the video game MTG: Battlegrounds. I worked on that some tonight, and decided I'll work on that until I can get a terrainer to help create the Ravnica world.

EDIT: I should note that the original concept was an altered melee, but I found it too large of a project, an altered melee with 10 factions. The project as it is now consists of only 3 steps... terrain creation, basic gameplay implementation (which isn't difficult), and the addition of the units and abilities for each guild. The third phase is easy as well, because I base unit stats off of their card game counterparts.

 

[Modo]

You can use the "Ward" unit classification to remove the Unit's UI but I don't know how to remove the Smart orders, like Right-Clicking.

If I have time (tomorrow I am running a LAN, next day I work and may go swimming, day after I will be doing a long walk) I will do the terrain. Please send me the Ravnica Drawn Map thing you mentioned and I will do my best.

I will also work on a system if you would like. I think it would be an interesting use of the triggers available in the Blizzard Plane Game that came with the 1.21 patch. If you haven't played it you should. Basically, you have a building. You set the rally point, select a unit and it will continually spawn them unless you run out of funds.

It has been over a year since I played MTG but I still like it. Let's make a map.

 

[Zanam]

Excellent! I'll scan in and make a legend of the map. Is it really that easy... just the 'ward' classification? I'm going to go check that right now. I should have the map done some time today, going to go to sleep pretty soon.

EDIT: Well, I'll be. It is just that easy, to remove the UI. I believe I recall a jass script that will remove the smart actions, I'll have to look it up. Thanks for that tip

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

i have the white and black, and white and blue decks, my name is after Rakdos, the defiler. The ruler of the rakdos guild. I own hte card, first legend from booster back in this set.

So better make his deck awesome lol.

So have guild rulers inside base, so only get to use them for like maybe limited times. Maybe only after you destroy a base or yours is being invaded.

Then have the ranks used only after lower ranks die. Like basic creatures first, then better creatures, greater creatures, than like augermage or guild mage. etc

 

[Zanam]

Well, the two 'generals' as I mentioned earlier in the post will be the Legends of the guild. For Rakdos, the generals would be Rakdos the Defiler and Lyzolda the Blood Witch (which, at the moment are planned as a Doom Guard and Succubus.)

All of their spells will be from cards from their respective guild. Rakdos will have Riot Spikes, Demonfire, etc.

EDIT: I've finished the Boros Legion tonight, minus the spells for their Generals. I'm uploading a screenshot. Here's shown from left to right:

Front row: Razia, Boros Archangel and Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran. Both use custom skins, Razia's edited from one I found here at the hive, Agrus is my own.
Middle row: Boros Recruit, Boros Swiftblade, Thundersong Trumpeter, Boros Guildmage, Wojek Apothecary, Wojek Embermage.
Back row: Ordruun Commando, Flamekin Zealot, Sunhome Enforcer, Screeching Griffin, Skyknight Legionnaire, Firemane Angel.

All creatures use abilities that are either identical to or based from their card forms. The Firemane Angel, for example, has flying, first strike (25% increased attack speed in this case), a passive ability that heals Generals, and the ability to reincarnate if it's commanding general has enough mana. The Wojek apothecary and embermage have a bouncing heal and damage attack, respecively.

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

Totally need a Rakdos signet item, signets items for all the guilds is an idea. Rakdos signet is the avatar <^

never seen blood witch...hmmm...
Riot spikes is a cool spell and all but didn't think he would use them, thought he made it for his followers, i mean how often do you see leaders hurting themselves for power?

Avatar of Discord is a good rare too, its Rakdos' shadow. Plus he has alot of hidden followers, like alot of creatures you wouldn't know followed him if you don't read the card quotes.

Taste for Mayhem, Psychotic fury, and crackling flames are ideas for rakdos spells.

 

[Zanam]

After I finish up the Boros general's spells, I'll begin work on Rakdos. Riot Spikes won't be for Rakdos himself, it'll be something to cast on your units. Demonfire I've planned as a unique spell, cast once to begin channeling, then it drains mana as you channel. You can release it any time to fire, the more mana used, the more powerful it is.

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

oh the "blaze" with hellbent. Yeah I have that too, tis an awesome ability for him. Should incorporate the hellbent part in somehow, like what he kills with it if hero takes longer respawn time or opponent cant summon more of the creature if not a hero for a time.

 

[Modo]

Zanam, I have a couple questions about skins. Firstly, the skin you edited from the hive, did you get permission? If you didn;t, we cannot use it until we have permisssion.

Secondly, I am assuming that Agrus Kos is the Arthas with Frostmourne. If I am right, I don't think Arthus is a good model for Agrus. I think he should be a Militia with dark brown skin.

Overall, a good job.

Is it ok if I assume creative control of Dimir and Golgari as these are my favourites. I will make them balanced. I just need to know how many creatures to make.

I will start terraining the map tomorrow (it is 6:22pm and I am already exhausted. This is not normal for me.) Getting the shape of each guild is the hard part. I want the shape of the Boros to be fairly straight and square as they are into order and that type of thing.

If you can give me details on the style of the Guilds that are not Dimir, Golgari, Boros and Selensya that would be ace.

BTW, I have started dabbling in mdl editing and such and am slowly but surely learning some of Magos.

 

[Zanam]

@Rakdos: The 'Hellbent' portion will be the same as it is in the card, if he's Hellbent (which in the case of this map will be 10% or less mana), the units affected will not be able to regenerate, and will not be able to be reanimated. It will be a line-damage spell similar to Shockwave.

@Modo: I'll attempt the Agrus skin with the militia, I just hate their animations... the only problem with Arthas is that we can't make him bald. He does have the Boros signet inscribed on his belt buckle, broadsword, and "book of wojek laws", which I thought would be appropriate.

If you can pull off the concepts from card to in-game unit, I'll be glad to let you do Dimir and Golgari. Dimir may be tricky because we don't have a 'deck' in this game, so I've come to the conclusion of having any deck-loss effects be mana burn abilities instead. I've toyed with the idea of having an item with 60 charges that drains every time a general casts a spell that must be recharged... perhaps we could incorporate that instead, I actually like that idea better. 12 creatures for each guild, and the theme i'm going with is only using the cards that have the guild insignia etched into the back. I can give you a list of ones that fit the bill. Health and damage I've been directly relating from creature's card forms. You may want me to send you what I have so far so you can see how the creature abilities are set up, most have dummy abilities for their actual cast, then a trigger that calls the real ability... because all abilities must be able to autocast, since there is no UI to control it.

I found where I got the skin, and messaged the user. It's Tiki from WC3C, i'm awaiting his answer. If you check your PM I sent you with the map earlier, it has a description of the terrain styles of each of the guilds. And as I said, feel free to modify borders... the only ones I really felt strongly about were Selesnya being in the center, the lower cliff levels of Rakdos and Golgari, and the even-lower cliff level of Dimir.

EDIT: Also, for size reasons, try to use as little imported material as possible. I decided to import a goblin model I found for the Boros Recruit (and other goblins, such as Rakdos' Kill-Suit Cultist), but I squished the mdl and compressed the textures used. I realize however, sometimes it's just necessary. I'm also considering scrapping the no-control idea altogether and just making it altered melee, with the unit spells still being autocast for ease of gameplay, along with some other changes. What do you think? (In actual testing, the assigning of units to general's gets annoying, it'd be more streamlined as regular units.)

EDIT2: Alright, I finished the Boros hero abilities tonight, as well as implement that spellbook system. So Dimir can properly affect a Hero's spellbook now. This also means Rakdos' Hellbent ability will now be 10 or less spells in the hero's spellbook. Also, I scrapped the no-select in favor of the easier altered melee setup. Finished up the base units for Rakdos, no abilities or anything yet. And now...time to get to sleep.

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

But it only affects "A" unit or player, shoackwave hits everything in line and around it.

 

[Zanam]

This is true... I'll keep that in mind when I make it. There will be times when I have to change slight things about spells from their card forms. These are the Boros General's spells:

Razia
-----
Bathe in Light - Grants all nearby friendly units a damage shield for a short time.
Cleansing Beam - Lightning that damages multiple enemy units.
Lightning Helix - Damages an enemy and heals Razia.
Brightflame - Rains down holy fire from the sky, damaging all nearby enemies. Drains mana as it is used, lasts until cancelled or until Razia runs out of mana. (may add a passive heal to this, but it's damn powerful as it is.)

Agrus Kos
---------
Surge of Zeal - Grants all nearby friendly units Haste for a short period.
Rally the Righteous - Increases the damage dealt by nearby units for a short period.
Leave No Trace - Dispels all friendly negative buffs and positive enemy buffs from units (bouncing spell.)
Flash Conscription - Gains control of an enemy unit and gives it Spirit Link. (not temporary, considering it is his ultimate.)

 

[Modo]

Zanam, I would like you to send me an example of how to do the units after I have done the terrain. If I can start work on my units, I may not get it complete. I will not import anything as of yet. Now I am going to start terraining.

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

Hmm wish i knew more about the lore, Timeshift series has some cool ideas, and kick ass red green starter deck, starter that actually can beat alot of custom made decks.

I forget name of guild... black white.... pretty evil.... anyways, whos the generals for that?

 

[Zanam]

@Modo: Good to hear, let me know when you have made some progress on the terrain. I'd love to see some WIP pics of certain zones.

@Rakdos: Black and White was the Orzhov Syndicate, whos generals are Teysa, Orzhov Scion and the Ghost Council of Orzhov. The Ghost Council, along with Selesnya's Chorus of the Conclave, will be represented by multiple identical units. For example, 3 Ghost Council members will make up the Council. One will be the actual unit you select and cast spells with, the other 2 will follow him and take his commands as their own, effectively making the group act as one creature.

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

Thats cool, yeah i hope Teysa is represented nicely ^.^

 

[Mechanical Man]

I liked Ravnica because it was more Slavic/eastern theme. Although I left playing already a long time before this edition came out. Ravnica means 'plains' or 'flat area' in my language.

 

[Zanam]

Ravnica brought me back into magic because of it's unique style and art, and I didn't stay for anything after that. I made a balanced, budget deck of each guild and packed them into a special case that I bring with me to events where friends that have played Magic will be at. It's fun for those who never had decks of their own or for those who quit playing. So far... Rakdos is the leader in wins.

EDIT: On topic... I could use some ideas for the models for Generals. Here's what I have so far:
Dimir - Szadek, Lord of Secrets - Demon Witch skin, modified slightly (if I can get permission)
Dimir - Circu, Dimir Lobotomist - ?
Golgari - Sisters of Stone Death - 3 units as one, Serpent Queen skin
Golgari - Savra, Queen of the Golgari - Dark Elf Necromancer model, reskinned if I can get permission
Selesnya - Chorus of the Conclave - 5 units as one, Dryad model. Definitely not sold on that, considering Ravnica's dryads are two-legged...
Selesnya - Tolsimir Wolfblood - Halduron Brightwing model, with "unit as one" being his pet wolf Voja.
Gruul - Borborgymos - ?... I could've sworn I saw a skin for a Gronn-style ogre before which would be awesome, but I can't find it.
Gruul - Ulsaht, the Hate Seed - Hydra model?
Orzhov - Ghost Council of Orzhov - 5 units as one, model undecided but will use animation trigger to make them transparent. Currently thinking about Necromancer...
Orzhov - Teysa, Orzhov Scion - Alternate Jaina model
Izzet - Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind - Dragonspawn model?
Izzet - Tibor and Lumia - 2 units as one, priest/sorceress likely
Simic - Experiment Kraj - Sludge-flinger model reskinned?
Simic - Momir Vig, Simic Visionary - Reskinned Medivh?
Azorius - Isperia the Unscrutable - Tough to do, but reskin of Obsidian Statue's morphed form, the Destroyer
Azorius - Grant Arbiter Augustin IV - Possibly reskin of Acolyte... not sold on that, but seems like the animations would suit him well.
Rakdos - Rakdos the Defiler - Arch Doomguard model, changing the effects to red flames, if I get permission.
Rakdos - Lyzolda the Blood Witch - Succubus

 

[GreyArchon]

Looks great! If I may offer just one tip... one I found out myself the hard way.

If you must, always sacrifice consistency with the cardgame for map playability.

Sure, MTG is great. But this isn't MTG, in the end you're making a Warcraft3 map. If you have the choice between improving the gameplay, or staying true to the exact details, looks, abilities and so forth of the cardgame, always choose the former.

 

[Zanam]

Yes, I've noticed there have been a couple of instances where I've looked at the costs of the creatures and not been happy with it. I've been basing the costs directly from the converted mana costs of the cards, but there will have to be balance changes when it is all said and done.

Thanks for the tip Grey, I'll definitely keep it in mind Hope to see you again when it's ready to be tested!

EDIT: I officially have permission to use the Valkyrie edit for Razia's skin.

 

[Modo]

If I can chop the horns and cloak off of the demon witch, and you re-skin him, we can use him as Szadek, Lord of Secrets.

Circu, Dimir Lobotomist requires a human with a sword in each hand. I'm going to go and modify the Demon Hunter model, and if you can reskin it, it would be fantastic.

Sadly, I cannot comment on the other models choices because I have not seen the Magic Cards for them.

I finally started the terrain today. I had a problem with the map. I couldn't put a place on the JPG-map into the World Editor by simply observing the JPG-map so I gridded the entire image in GIMP using tracks and exact co-ordinates. Now, if I can focus enough, I can at least get the layout of the terrain. I will put in more effort while I have nothing else to do.

EDIT: Dreadlord could also be Szadek. They look fairly similar.

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

there is a human demon hunter skin, but has been a long time since i've seen it

 

[Zanam]

I think Szadek having a cloak suits him perfectly, considering his entire guild is shrouded in mystery. The horns we can recolor to become part of the armor, I think... it's just a skin, and I'd rather not edit the model because that would require that much more space taken up for a minor change. I'm not all that great at skinning freehand, but I'll see what I can do. Perhaps we could recruit a skinner for the project as well, one who could take the artworks and work off of that.

Demon Hunter isn't a bad idea for Circu, I just haven't seen anything like him before... he's young, human, but frail for an assassin. I'll keep checking around for him.

On the model note... Kitabatake has granted permission for the use of an edited ArchDoomguard model for Rakdos, and I've already completed it. It looks absolutely perfect, flaming eyes, flaming weapon... everything Rakdos needs.

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

Yup everything I need ^.^

 

[Modo]

The only reason I wanted Szadek to lose the cloak was because he has no cloak in the card.

I have attached my BETA Circu. I don't know what he will look like when skinned properly. This was a 5 min edit and I will gladly modify this if it isn't good enough. I used Magos Model Editor to view the model. It looks good from a normal playing distance. Use the "No Loop" option and Attack animation to get a good look at it.

I'm going to sleep now because I got up quite early, will get up early tomorrow and it is late now.

BTW, if I remove the Demon half of the model, I can reduce the size quite a lot. I don't think Circu needs to transform into a demon.

EDIT: From Kitabatake's comment on his model

Arch Doomguard, has some effects added. Flames on the sword and eyes, a huge flame when the doomguard dies and a spell effect.

It seems that he only added flames to some of the animations. If you want this done (or something similar), I will do it for you using either Magos or an Oinkerwinkle tool. I can also add a hero glow if I get permission and you want it.

EDIT: As of this post, Post #33 has the most recent model

 

[Zanam]

The flames are in all of the animations, I removed the death effects as they were a bit over-the-top. Attached is a pic of the BE-version of Szadek, with no 'horns' and a more aged-vampire appearance. If you think you can do a better one with a Dreadlord, by all means try... but I think that's as close as it's going to get. Beside him is the new Rakdos in full glory.

EDIT: It'll be tough to properly skin him, but that Attack 2 animation on the demon hunter is the perfect pose for Circu. We'll use that... however, what do you think about removing the glaives all together in favor of some thin short swords? I could just grab attachments and use an ability to link them into the unit.

 

[Modo]

Szadek looks pretty cool. I know I cannot do any better with a Dreadlord as I am bad at editing skins.

Do you want Rakdos guy to have a Hero Glow?

With Circu, would you prefer I straighten the glaives rather than remove them and add weapons using abilities? It is not that hard to do.

 

[Zanam]

I'll add in the Hero glows to the appropriate units via an in-game attachment, it's a lot easier on the filesize. From projects in the past, I've learned that the map's filesize has probably the single highest impact on whether or not the map gets played, which is why I'm a nazi when it comes to imports.

As for Circu, go ahead and see how it looks straightened. Which program are you using for your edits? I use Magos', but I'm not sure how you clipped off the vertexes for the other half of the glaive if you're using that.

 

[Modo]

I'm actually using a combo of Magos and Oinkerwinkle's Vertex modifier (I do have the other Oinkerwinkle tools as well). I have the new Circu ready. He doesn't have the Demon Form or alternate animations. I have removed about 1/2 of his geosets as they are useless.

Sadly, I don't know how to optimise the MDL or else I would remove all animation after about 38000 frames as it isn't being used. Hope you like it anyway.

Just noticed the models are about the same size. WTF? It must be the animations.

EDIT: Go down a few post to find the most recent Circu model.

 

[Zanam]

Oh, I definitely like that one better. Now to attempt to skin the bastard... I think I'll look around for a human version to edit, I'm not all that great at free-hand skins. At the moment I'm trying to finish up Rakdos' unit abilities, the Guildmage's -2/-2 is throwing me off... but I think I may have figured out how to do it right.

EDIT: Indeed I did. Items work wonders for tricky things like this.

 

[Modo]

I am going to try and find a way to reduce the filesize, but, as I said, I don't really know what I am doing.

Now, to go through a text document of thousands of lines . I need an MDL tutorial.

I removed all Alternate Bones and reduced the file size dramatically. I am going to remove the other posted models and just have this one. I think it works well. I'm sure there is another way to further reduce the filesize.

I think there may be an error, but it could be my Magos. I loaded Circu and his Hero Glow was his skin. My Magos has been randomly crashing as of late, so I don't know if this is a problem with the model. I will try to fix it if it is.

 

[Zanam]

You removed the texture for the Hero glow, and the geoset defaulted to the first available skin, which was his main one. I've had it happen before. 200kb is an acceptable filesize, and it will go down probably another 50-60kb in-game after a couple of squishes. (mdx squisher, found in the tools section).

EDIT: Alright, fixed the problem I had with the skin, it's all set now. Uploaded is what I've got so far for Circu. He's not as young-looking as I'd like, but I'd be willing to take that. It'll be closer than many of the heroes will end up looking.

EDIT2: Rakdos' unit abilities are done, need to go to class and then sleep afterwards. I'll work on the hero abilities next, then put out a demo here for feedback purposes.

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

eyes should look like that?

 

[Zanam]

He wears a lot of eyeliner... it's probably a bit too much in the skin, but the Demon Hunter has no eyes, so it's really hard to get it to work right. It's essentially just guessing where it will look best. The skin does have orange-red eyes, you just cant see them well in the pic.

I've finished up Rakdos's abilities, only Lyzolda's remain and Rakdos will be done. Here's Rakdos' abilities:

Twinstrike - Deals damage on up to two enemy units. If Rakdos is Hellbent, Twinstrike deals 4x damage to those units instead.
Riot Spikes - Imbues a unit with demonic spikes, granting it a +2/-1 bonus.
Wrecking Ball - Deals damage to units in an area by throwing a giant flaming ball. Deals extra damage to buildings.
Anthem of Rakdos (ultimate) - Gives all nearby units a 15 damage bonus, but drains 10 health from Rakdos for each unit affected. If Rakdos is Hellbent, units affected gain Double Strike for the duration.

 

[Modo]

I'm not sure if you replaced the texture for the hero glow but I have attached a zipped folder with the 199kb model and the skin (re-named Circu). Do you mind if I upload Circu to the model section with full credits for your skin work?

I am working on the map itself. I discovered something that will increase the speed of mapping. Firstly, instead of mapping from the middle, I will start from the top left. Because I have a grid to follow this will be easy.

I made the grid on the map you drew way too small, about 1/4 of the size it was meant to be so I had to work around that. It will get done eventually.

 

[Zanam]

We can't upload it as ours, I did base it off of another's skin, whom I'm still waiting on a reply from for permission to use it in our project. Granted, mine is a far, far stretch from the original... only the black shroud that covers his chest and shoulder are from the original work, but I believe we still need permission in that case. The pic I used for the previous post was off of your beta2 model, I didn't modify beta3 at all.

What's the current scale you are using for the map? I'm not really worried about which you go with, just merely curious. (as in, 256x256, etc.)

EDIT: I made just a couple modifications to Circu's model, a couple things I felt made him more like his artwork. I pinned his ears closer to his head, making them more human like, and a shortened the thickness of his blades to about half their original thickness. They seemed a bit bulky for an assassin. Any objection?

 

[Modo]

The map size is 256x256.

The model edit is fine. I would have preferred it to be renamed but I fixed that (it is now v1.5). Is Circu a male or female. I think it is female but I am not too sure.

 

[Zanam]

Circu's definintely a guy, he's just somewhat... feminine. Kinda emo, if you ask me.

I'm going to have to suspend my work on it for this week, I'm experiencing some terrible computer crashes that happen randomly... could be after 10 minutes, could be after an hour. I'm constantly losing work, so I'm going to reformat over the weekend. I'll still do some brainstorming work, which units to use for guilds, which abilities heroes will get, etc.