Permanent hero levelup - need some opinions

[MoCo]

I'm currently thinking about making hero level up permanent (like in Killing Floor). Still, I have not made any decision yet and I'm interested in your opinions on this.

To give a little more explanation, it could work like this:

- There's a max hero level, let's assume 10.
- The hero level is saved via the -save command (along with the equip)
- Leveling, however, will take significantly more time and it's even more exponential; so first level ups will go fast, but then things soon will take very much effort and go slow.
- As a result, you won't reach level 10 in a single game. Instead you will need a lot of games to get your hero to the highest levels
- The higher the difficulty mode, the higher the amount of XP earned
- There can be level caps, so that playing on easy won't give any XP if your hero has gained a certain min. level

Advantages:
- Higher replayability value and better long time motivation
- The feeling that you really progress your hero and don't start at zero when you go into a game; everything is taken over along games

Disadvantages:
- It probably will become harder to beat a game on the first tries
- I need to update and adept all monster statistics to the new system which will take considerable further balancing


Let me know what you think about this.

 

[ELECTROLYTE]

That doesn't sound like a bad idea. Not just going for items but levels as well. It can be tiresome leveling up again. As for the game being harder, I don't think that would be a bad thing with people saying its too easy . The starting waves seem to be the hardest when you start again depending on the difficulty and as you level it becomes easier. Also adding levels could open the possibly of new or different abilities for each hero.

 

[Gwy]

I like the system how is int now. Why?
- saving heroes with levels and all is common in rpgs. This (only saving items/ starting everytime lvl 1) is something mor unique imo.
- Levels arent so important in your map (cause you have no abilioty points/ talent points to spend). So why save the level.
Imo its a good solution to have harder and more rewarded difficulties whcih you can only beat with better items.
(and btw, other thread: difficultiy imo is good. Dont make it easier. Dont make it too much harder. Maybe the bosses more tactical as now

 

[savinguptobebroke]

Sorry for super long post

My brother like this idea a lot , however I'm not quite sure about it as I have had not a lot of good experiences with Warcraft 3 multiplayer maps where you save your hero levels.

I think you should try to minimize the increase in player stats as they level up and rather offer the players more customization of their heroes and abilities.

Personally I think that you should give it a shot as I think that it could greatly increase the replay value.

Cons
- It may make it harder for new players to start playing with experienced players.
- You will probably have to make the difficulties more varied or at least take in the heroes levels it to consideration for the difficulty .
- A lot of balancing

Pros
- Could allow them to customized abilities as they level up.
- Could vastly increase replay value.

Things you could do :

Idea 1

allow heroes to follow one of two paths of custom abilities e.g.
Alarik

Path 1 Technomage
These sets of abilities focus on this abilities such as energy blast , energy shield , overload and stasis field and later on removes all summons for more powerful abilities and a strong passive boost to your spells .Makes stasis field area of effect , energy field shock enemies who attack you , and energy blast becomes strong as or nearly as strong as the rangers nuke.

Path 2 Battel Engineer
These sets of abilities focus on his summons and improves them . Gives him a stronger golem , dual machine gun turrets , faster shooting snipers and a faster cool down and increased damage for walking bomb. It allows you to make you energy shield to defend you turrets or have a small aoe and eventually removes energy blast and stasis field for a passive engineering boost and an ability which repairs all mechs.

level 1 to 10 unlocks

Technomage
1 - energy bast has additional 1 second stun and 1x int multiplier , summons are 10% less health and damage , 25 % more cooldown
2 - energy shield receives an additional x2 int multiplier
3 - energy shield now shock enemies who attack you in melee for 1.5x int
4 - overload now has 3x int multiplier
5 - summons have 20% less health and damage , 50% more cooldown
6 - 100 + health , 5+ strength and intellegence
7 - energy cores drones are removed and replaced with an small energy core , 0.5 + mana regeneration
8 - energy blast has an 8x int multiplier and a 2 sec stun 50 % longer cool down costs 10 mana
9 - passive , all abilities become area of effect or has enhanced area of effect , reduces damage of abilities.
10 - passive , haves cooldown for all abilities , reduces cost of abilities to 5 mana , 5 additional crit chance to spells.

notes
9 + 10 replaces summons , 10 min change cool down
7 replaces drone construction panel

Battle Engineer
1 - improved version of repair heal 5 % per second , increased turret health 10 % , range by 100 , spell have 25 % more cooldown
2 - energy shield is 40% weaker but effects all summons
3 - energy shield is 20 % weaker and applies to all allies in 350 aoe
4 - overload is now a target effect on one of your summons , receives 200 % increase in attack speed and damage + 50% splash for 10 seconds then explodes doing 2x int damage.
5 - increased turret and golem health by 20 % , range by 150 , spells have 50 % more cooldown.
6 - 50+ health to you and summons + 5 intelligence , +10 mana
7 - repair is now an ability world it repairs all drones for 50% health over 20 seconds 30 second cooldown 10 mana
8 - energy blast is now an area of effect ability does 3 second stun on enemies and increases summons attack speed by 10 for 30 seconds.
9 - passive , makes summons weaker but halves cool down and doubles number of summons .
10 - passive , boosts the strength of all summons or provides an
ultimate version of all summons but doubles cool down of summons.

notes
9+10 removes stasis field , 10 minute cool down to swap between two types

Idea 2
Give main bosses one of two ability set and as you go higher leveled the chance of the second set increased .This makes boss battles more interesting and the game evolve as you progress and now there is no one way to defeat a boss.

Idea/suggestion 3
Note should not be implanted with idea 1
If level up system is different to 1st suggestion you could make it effect different aspect of the game to make it more interesting. Eg chance of several random bonus missions , 5 challenges when you reach level 10 ,

Notes on suggestions
- all require lots of effort
- have to keep in mind the 8mb map size limit.

 

[MoCo]

Above all, I will add a lot of customization with the new item design. There will be many weapons, boosting particular spells so you have to decide where to put your focus.

As it concerns different skill trees, abilities or specializations, I need to further think about this. What I definitely won't do, is, to make each ability levelable like in normal WC3. The idea of 2 or 3 specializations which each affect some of the spells seems reasonable though.

I've also thought about a perk system, so you can choose one or two perks. This could be general perks like juggernaut (+health), or bullseye (+crit), etc.

Last but not least, we need to be clear on the focus of the game. In my intention, this should be less about typical RPG character growup, but more about playing chars right in a team, each bringing in his individual strengths to survive. That should be the primary focus. Heroes should be clear about their roles. So, if things get boring, maybe strengths and weaknesses of heroes need to be worked out even stronger and monster design should be improved appropriately to enforce teamplay. Just an example: think of masses of tiny, fast monsters. The slayer can easily deal with them due to his splash damage, but the hunter can't. So, a slayer shines here where a hunter fails. In contrast, there should be monsters are hunter can easily get rid of while a slayer can't... This is a basic conept I could set a higher focus on and I'm sure it will increase tactical depth and complexity.

 

[ELECTROLYTE]

I'm glad you clarified your intentions for the game. I was curious if you were more focused on the rpg aspects or survival. As for the specializations you could start small and add only one of two options. Another possibility is with levels being hard to come by and save-able, requirements to change your specialization would depend on this. (Ex.) Max level is 10, so maybe level 5 you get the option or have to do something to learn new skills that replace your old ones or modify them. It's all optional. Think of the first 5 levels as the normal abilities. Then the last 5 as a secondary option. At level 10 you can choose which you liked most and finalize it. But that's just an example and my input. Could also add the perk system to the specializations. I agree with each character being useful in there own way where some doing things better than others. Make every character feel worthwhile and not a few that are really strong.