[Minigame] New map need ideas/opionins

[Chaosy]

Hello everyone, I have started a new map and I am in need of opionions/ideas.

so, this is the basic gameplay idea. we got 2 bases one for player 1 and one for player 2. every 15 seconds each side spawn one unit that will run towards the other base and the units will fight in the middle trying to get there. However that will be boring since at start you only got a very low ammout of units to controll. Anyway you can buy new units to additionally spawn, in this case it is riflemen (600 gold cost) and headhunter (450 gold cost). There will also be a event every 8 minutes or something that will grant something if you complete it. You can also buy upgrades and other stuff.

I will mostly focus on the fun factor of the map and therefore I want ideas/opinions.

1. How to increase the fun factor especially early game.
-current solution, every 30 seconds there will spawn a gold/silver/iron ore that you will be able to use
1b. What should the ore be used for?

2. Upgrade ideas, it would be fun if you could by fun/unique upgrades for your units not only 1+ armor and +2 damage.

3. other ideas/thoughts

 

[Hexcellion]

1. Since you already have an answer to this, I will answer 1b.
1b. Spawn units that you cannot summon using gold by making the ore into a new currency that is more expensive than gold. Make the units that will be bought here advanced units. The second currency should be allowed to be bought using gold though.

2. Adding some effects to some unit upgrades. Make some upgrades that can only be bought by the second currency I mentioned above using the ores you get. These upgrades can give the units some effect, like some spheres used by the bloodmage. Think of a different one though because I can't see riflemen using spheres. You could also add a Promotion upgrade where you can make your units stronger by changing their models and adding some stats and stuff. Also, this should be bought by the second currency.

Edit: And if there will be a promotion system of some sort, advanced units shouldn't be able to be promoted since they're basically stronger than promoted basic units.

3. I am not sure what genre this map will be, so pardon me if I may have misunderstood anything. You should put more info regarding the map. Imo, it sounds like the map Castle Fight where you spawn units and destroy the other players' bases.

 

[Chaosy]

So we basicly use the ores as lumber? That is pretty fine. Will try to find a suiting way to use that.

Like the headhunter upgrade? Could be a funnier version of a upgrade indeed.

Its a mix of a few maps I have played but yes something like that.

I'm really grateful. Thanks for sharing your thought rep+

 

[Binsu]

1b. Maybe you can use ores if incase there is some purchasable items, make some strong and powerful items required ores.

2. Maybe some upgrades that increases the spawned units. Will think of more.

3. It would be good if there will be maybe some special events occuring to add somehow touches and fun also maybe some strong bosses on neutral spots (if there are)

 

[Chaosy]

The thing is that the ores Will be hard to find early game but easy late game so yes it could be used for the late game upgrades however I want the player to find them early game since the early game is quiete boring.

I thought so too but that would be very op if one player get the upgrade before the other.

Yes I got a tempoary boss but I am not sure about he Will give if killed.

 

[Binsu]

1b. How about materials for recipes items, may it be strong or not? Through this, I am breaking Hexcellion's idea of making it to Lumber but making it maybe carried item in Inventory.

2. Ok, we can disregard that but how about each specific time, spawned units increases for each Team so it is balanced. And for some upgrades, how about upgrades for Hero skills?

 

[Chaosy]

That is realky good you can buy double units for 1.5 mins I like that
rep+

 

[Binsu]

Hey, bro. I got more ideas. Not really related to your questions but if I may, how about add some Dungeon Crawl to this type of game. Like you explore some dungeons and deep in it are large amount of gold, silver, and iron ore or there is also chances item recipes acquirable through Dungeon Crawling too? Of course when enemy heroes met there, you can also fight inside the dungeon itself..

Only suggested if your map is quite big but if not, you'll lack space.

You know its good to add some twist in gameplay =)

 

[cleavinghammer]

Have neutral monsters appear in the center, so both sides can attack it. Better: have a monster so strong both sides become neutral (not allied) to each other to take it out.

And yes, some external dungeons would be a good idea.

 

[konyvfalovb]

I think that the model-changing is a must-have. It wouldn't be bad to add cavalry units and ranged forces. These will be the 3 types of the troops (cav, ranged and melee). The player could only select one unit-type from one group, so if you selected troll headhunters which should have a bit more HP but have less attack and attack range (and they should be slower) that the riflemen, only trolls would spawn and riflemen wouldn't. But you can create footmen and knights at the same time.
Second, there should be more than one routes to reach the enemy. So you wouldn't be able to amass a huge number of riflemen which should have the longest range, and take out every enemy in sight easily. The best would be to have 3 routes: a road with a fortification that can be defended easily, a wide road where you will need to amass a lot of forces so you could fight with huge armies (The advantages of this way could be increased by adding a "killing spree" bonus: if you kill 3 enemies in 5 seconds, you get some money, kiling another one in 3 more seconds would give you bigger bonus and so on). The third route would be the dungeon: this is dangerous and holds many secrets but exploring this and attacking through the very deep caves would lead the troops near the enemy's base. This should be some sort of Labirynth, but taking out enemies from here makes you able to cross the caves but makes your opponent's job easier.
Even more: you should import a wall model for fortifications (This one but you will need to use Outer edge s and there's an inner edge, too) which can be extended, rebuilt and replaced this way. Would make the game even better if you could train Workers which can mine these ores from the dungeon, increasing your income and giving the "premium currnecy". These wouls also able to build simple fortifications (maybe this) and for the stone walls/towers/unit-training buildings you would need a Builder/engineer. These unit-production buildings would be able to be selected for production and they would produce the unit-type instead of the basic unit trainer building. If the building is destroyed, the production's timer is reset and the unit production will be continued in the main building.
Is this enough or do you want me to think about even more?

 

[Formula1]

This is actually similar to footman vs grunts. To get some ideas of solid mechanics, i highly suggest you take a look at that map. Clan wTc runs a bot and dedicates a lot of time to balancing the map.

That being said, my experiences have led to a few unique things that ive learned to love

The battle line: the battle line is where both parties fight. Games like this are more intrerested in making the battle line get closer to your opponents and destroying their units so they can focus on killing the base. That being said, its important to actually make sure this battle line exsists and the ebb and flow feels right.
-bunching-its very important to make sure all your units are attacking. However many times what will happen is theres a bunch of units on the front lines and a bunch in the back searching for a space. Smaller collision size means less bunching
-concaves-getting a concave us very important to gain an incremental advantage. If you can make your units surround your opponents, at certian angles, your units will have a 2 on 1. Which means you kill faster than they can kill you. This has to fo with the direction you mass attack from

There comes a point at extreme dps where melee is useless and the battle line is more of a question: who has more dps from further away?

Critical masses: critical masses are more associated to ranged units than melee. What happens is at a specific criticsl mass you units will one shot your opponents bedore they have a chance to get close


As for early game fun. You can consider the game half battle line management, half exploration. By creating randomized items or similar sort, you can make the early game feel more rat racey where everyones running to find special things.

If you want to focus more on the front lines, giving micromanagement abiliries also allows the players to get that small earlygame advantage that may be the winning factor over the course of the game

 

[Formula1]

I recommend to dont do wall of text in ideas, it must be simple, and nice to read
- killer count board is always welcome

So basically your saying add heroes
Real original.
In fact it sounds like your suggesting a 2 player aos
If thats what he wants, sure he should go for it

But theres a bigger picture in any game, walls of text may dedcribe it better than...
"Durrrr add heroes?"

 

[Chaosy]

Have neutral monsters appear in the center, so both sides can attack it. Better: have a monster so strong both sides become neutral (not allied) to each other to take it out.

And yes, some external dungeons would be a good idea.

I got one neutral boss currently

I think that the model-changing is a must-have. It wouldn't be bad to add cavalry units and ranged forces. These will be the 3 types of the troops (cav, ranged and melee). The player could only select one unit-type from one group, so if you selected troll headhunters which should have a bit more HP but have less attack and attack range (and they should be slower) that the riflemen, only trolls would spawn and riflemen wouldn't. But you can create footmen and knights at the same time.
Second, there should be more than one routes to reach the enemy. So you wouldn't be able to amass a huge number of riflemen which should have the longest range, and take out every enemy in sight easily. The best would be to have 3 routes: a road with a fortification that can be defended easily, a wide road where you will need to amass a lot of forces so you could fight with huge armies (The advantages of this way could be increased by adding a "killing spree" bonus: if you kill 3 enemies in 5 seconds, you get some money, kiling another one in 3 more seconds would give you bigger bonus and so on). The third route would be the dungeon: this is dangerous and holds many secrets but exploring this and attacking through the very deep caves would lead the troops near the enemy's base. This should be some sort of Labirynth, but taking out enemies from here makes you able to cross the caves but makes your opponent's job easier.
Even more: you should import a wall model for fortifications (This one but you will need to use Outer edge s and there's an inner edge, too) which can be extended, rebuilt and replaced this way. Would make the game even better if you could train Workers which can mine these ores from the dungeon, increasing your income and giving the "premium currnecy". These wouls also able to build simple fortifications (maybe this) and for the stone walls/towers/unit-training buildings you would need a Builder/engineer. These unit-production buildings would be able to be selected for production and they would produce the unit-type instead of the basic unit trainer building. If the building is destroyed, the production's timer is reset and the unit production will be continued in the main building.
Is this enough or do you want me to think about even more?

1. not a bad idea, will think about how to add it in a way I like
2. I only want one way into the base since it will be easi to trick the AI if you make many ways into it.
3. I thought of adding walls but I didnt find a nice use of it. Currently I got a trigger that prevents winning if you havent killed all towers so I dont need walls they are useless anyway ^^

This is actually similar to footman vs grunts. To get some ideas of solid mechanics, i highly suggest you take a look at that map. Clan wTc runs a bot and dedicates a lot of time to balancing the map.

That being said, my experiences have led to a few unique things that ive learned to love

The battle line: the battle line is where both parties fight. Games like this are more intrerested in making the battle line get closer to your opponents and destroying their units so they can focus on killing the base. That being said, its important to actually make sure this battle line exsists and the ebb and flow feels right.
-bunching-its very important to make sure all your units are attacking. However many times what will happen is theres a bunch of units on the front lines and a bunch in the back searching for a space. Smaller collision size means less bunching
-concaves-getting a concave us very important to gain an incremental advantage. If you can make your units surround your opponents, at certian angles, your units will have a 2 on 1. Which means you kill faster than they can kill you. This has to fo with the direction you mass attack from

There comes a point at extreme dps where melee is useless and the battle line is more of a question: who has more dps from further away?

Critical masses: critical masses are more associated to ranged units than melee. What happens is at a specific criticsl mass you units will one shot your opponents bedore they have a chance to get close


As for early game fun. You can consider the game half battle line management, half exploration. By creating randomized items or similar sort, you can make the early game feel more rat racey where everyones running to find special things.

If you want to focus more on the front lines, giving micromanagement abiliries also allows the players to get that small earlygame advantage that may be the winning factor over the course of the game

thanks dude, actually I want the game to be a mix between frontline and farming. The enemy units are much much stronger so you got to run between.

I recommend to dont do wall of text in ideas, it must be simple, and nice to read

- a map without heroes, is hard to make it good and fun, we all like heroes

- killer count board is always welcome

- 10 levels and 12 skills, so 2 skills cant be selected (is like wow talents)

-neutral unit skills, like polimorfism or net trap.

-two play forms, 5 kills, 10 kills, 20 kills, or destroy enemy base. (base can be invulnerable in the killing mode)

-I got a thread where you can create your own hero I will add them into the game.
-added kill count a while ago sorry for not updating the thread
-I could indeed do that, but it makes the game complex you dont have time to read every spell during your first game since you will most likely get ROFLSTOMPED.
-Yes, I have addeda few abilitys but not for every single unit. Will do that, ty
- That wont work it could be easily abused.


Thanks alot for the suggestions guys!

 

[cleavinghammer]

No, I mean as an event.

Say after five minutes have passed, a very big monster appears in the middle. Both sides can then attack it, or take advantage of the fact that the enemy base is unguarded (they're attacking the monster, after all), but they'll be taking heavy damage from the monster.

 

[konyvfalovb]

You said it would trich the AI. Then make a variant of the map which has 3 entries and then post it as a multiplayer variant.

 

[Chaosy]

No, I mean as an event.

Say after five minutes have passed, a very big monster appears in the middle. Both sides can then attack it, or take advantage of the fact that the enemy base is unguarded (they're attacking the monster, after all), but they'll be taking heavy damage from the monster.

my bad. Then I guess I could add that

You said it would trich the AI. Then make a variant of the map which has 3 entries and then post it as a multiplayer variant.

oh, yes that would work, or combine them and you simply detect single/multiplayer in a map.