New HotS Protoss Unit unveiled

[MGCǂSpectre]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...4625217457.406451.178337772456&type=1&theater

More info will be posted by Blizzard soon
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my comment: And some wonder what the crescent shaped UFOs are. They are the new unannounced Protoss unit! I cant see resemblance with any known unit unlike the Zerg and Terran units that had similarities with existing units. The Spikes are not typical for Protoss, should've been without them cause this looks almost zerg spikes. Not corsair for sure, some new air unit, would be surprised if this were ground.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Mmm, falcon grav tank

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

^ You know, I dont play Warhammer 40K but that's the units I know from that game and this went through my mind as well, especially if it turns out to be ground :>

 

[Rui]

Reminds you of the Zerg Guardian. Looks very very weird considering it's Protoss. I hope it introduces some flexibility to PvP though.

 

[Dr Super Good]

It is almost certain to be an air unit. Maybe an air caster? Currently protoss stargate is underused from what I hear so I guess a good caster might change all that.

 

[Bugz]

I think it's an air unit, if not i would be surprised.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

It is almost certain to be an air unit. Maybe an air caster? Currently protoss stargate is underused from what I hear so I guess a good caster might change all that.

On the other hand mass VRays is pretty noobish cheese but a phoenix harass in good hands plus usual is quite strong. But i agree, Toss air isnt much used unlike Terran's, but then again we have the list of useless units:

Reaper, Carrier, Hydralisk. The new terran unit for example could quite likely replace the reaper, will Carrier be replaced?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Hydralisks are not usless. By their very presence in the tech tree it forces protoss away from pure light (as hydralisks are very good against those units).

Reapers were too much make or break so I can see them getting replaced.

Carriers are one of the strongest units in the game. Their lack of use is not because they are bad, it is just because they are too costly. Inorder to get carriers onto your tech tree you sacrifice a lot of units that you need now in tight games. Yes you will win with that odd carrier you build, but getting them up will cost you. The introduction of a new air unit will potentially change that as it might compensate for going heavy on air as protoss.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Forgot PvZ yes sorry, im mostly posting from Terran prespective. Though some zerg players had such questions why use hydralisk at all, but they may have been noobs. Doesn't matter what the reason is - point is Carriers are barely used so I wonder what a new air unit would possibly counter. Maybe will replace Mothership in PvZ whoever is doing that, since if I were toss I would never go 1-unit-all-game build. Unless it's a very long game I've seen early fast Mothership who would really do that.

 

[Rui]

Carriers are too costly to go on 1vs1 games but on 3v3 or 4v4 (especially 4v4) they're completely rigged. Once there are enough, nothing except marines will break them, and you've got to be lucky enough to have a terran on your team who hasn't been taken out already and isn't the first to be hit by the carrier surprise.
If I go for a Phoenix opening on team games, I usually get a carrier or two to draw fire away from other units, it's quite laughable how people blink towards a whole army just to aim a unit that deals no significant damage unless upgraded. Still, getting the fleet beacon plus carriers is too gas intensive, so you'll be unable to get anything equally gas intensive (HTs/Colossi) in the meantime. Needless to say, it isn't very viable versus terran on team games either. And it's quite irritable how a few units are completely useless versus some races (Hydralisks versus terran, for example).

 

[Darkgamma]

Carriers are too costly to go on 1vs1 games but on 3v3 or 4v4 (especially 4v4) they're completely rigged. Once there are enough, nothing except marines will break them, and you've got to be lucky enough to have a terran on your team who hasn't been taken out already and isn't the first to be hit by the carrier surprise.
If I go for a Phoenix opening on team games, I usually get a carrier or two to draw fire away from other units, it's quite laughable how people blink towards a whole army just to aim a unit that deals no significant damage unless upgraded.

Carriers are also quite counterable by a spam of corruptors and good amount of Hydras. Since they attack multiple units at the same time, a Zerg player just ought to bring eight times more units as there are carriers.

Carrier onslaughts are downright terrible, but the new unit is murder for us Muta pushers

 

[Dr Super Good]

a Zerg player just ought to bring eight times more units as there are carriers.

That might not always be possible seeing how 8 units probably cost more than that 1 carrier.

The new unit might far supass the fire power of the carrier. Yes it may not provide cannon fodder to distract your opponent but instead you get splash damage. Mass curropters will not be an option against large numbers of them as the AoE will give the upper hand over the bonuse to massive curropters have. I am guessing mass ground is the way to go as they have high single target but no splash.

 

[Darkgamma]

That might not always be possible seeing how 8 units probably cost more than that 1 carrier.

The new unit might far supass the fire power of the carrier. Yes it may not provide cannon fodder to distract your opponent but instead you get splash damage.

When you kill the carrier, you go on to destroy the rest of the army an their base, ofc
Zerg I feel are being increasingly pushed into solely ground now, which is bad since the Protoss seem to be getting the air dominance rights now, which is unbalanced.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Zerg I feel are being increasingly pushed into solely ground now, which is bad since the Protoss seem to be getting the air dominance rights now, which is unbalanced.

You must remember that units like the viper may change play a lot. That HT that would shred your army climbing a ramp is now dead because you yanked it to its doom off a cliff into some hydralisks. Siege tanks causing problems? Just throw them down straight into a waiting army and watch them melt 1 by 1. Zerg will probably be about open confrontations now rather than camping and then hitting them when they are down.

 

[Darkgamma]

You must remember that units like the viper may change play a lot. That HT that would shred your army climbing a ramp is now dead because you yanked it to its doom off a cliff into some hydralisks. Siege tanks causing problems? Just throw them down straight into a waiting army and watch them melt 1 by 1. Zerg will probably be about open confrontations now rather than camping and then hitting them when they are down.

Viperplay does seem like an interesting new aspect, truth be told, but changing a lot of the Zerg gameplay is risky business since a lot of the players are used to ambushes.

I'm used to ambushes D:

 

[Dr Super Good]

I'm used to ambushes D:

And so you can do them even better now that banlings can move when burrowed.

 

[Darkgamma]

And so you can do them even better now that banlings can move when burrowed.

Or Ultralisk underground charge...
Hm

 

[Rui]

Carriers are also quite counterable by a spam of corruptors and good amount of Hydras. Since they attack multiple units at the same time, a Zerg player just ought to bring eight times more units as there are carriers.

Carrier onslaughts are downright terrible, but the new unit is murder for us Muta pushers

That's assuming the Zerg has a Spire, has more upgrades than the carriers (+1 air weapons to the Carrier means +8 damage per round of interceptors attack, which is a lot as you can figure), and is able to get those many corruptors with the resources and time he's got left.

By the way, I am convinced that the Tempest will deal bonus damage versus light units, so perhaps corruptors will work against them. Although, that siphoning ability is kind of a bad reason Blizzard gave you for getting corruptors; if tempests do kill corruptors effectively, then what good is the corruptor in the Zerg techtree? It won't be the counter to colossi anymore.

 

[Darkgamma]

Although, that siphoning ability is kind of a bad reason Blizzard gave you for getting corruptors; if tempests do kill corruptors effectively, then what good is the corruptor in the Zerg techtree? It won't be the counter to colossi anymore.

This.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

This Shredder unit seems to be like the Terran baneling, then again SCBW had lots of play with Vulutres and mines in TvZ so this makes sense. Only, I see a lot of going back to SC1 strats with the new corresponding units.

 

[Edhel-dur]

This Shredder unit seems to be like the Terran baneling, then again SCBW had lots of play with Vulutres and mines in TvZ so this makes sense. Only, I see a lot of going back to SC1 strats with the new corresponding units.

Oh yeah, deffinetly, a lot of the "answers" in HotS are taken from SC1 and SC:BW.

 

[Rui]

Indeed, you'd expect them to be a little more original. And I've heard hopefully false rumors that no new units would be coming with Legacy of the Void. If it were to be true, I'd take that as Blizzard admitting defeat at creating an equally original game.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

^ This cannot be confirmed, based on balance and unit usefullness just like it is frm WoL to HotS, they could replace units. But yes I dont like that it's almost going SC1 builds.

Except for protoss, who are indeed new, Terran is like having firebat back, Vulture back but just the spidermine, Goliath aka Warhound.. , Zerg's Swarm Host is very much acting like a lurker only difference being the units it spawns but still such type ranged burrowed attack, Defiler i,e Viper..

 

[Edhel-dur]

^ This cannot be confirmed, based on balance and unit usefullness just like it is frm WoL to HotS, they could replace units. But yes I dont like that it's almost going SC1 builds.

Except for protoss, who are indeed new, Terran is like having firebat back, Vulture back but just the spidermine, Goliath aka Warhound.. , Zerg's Swarm Host is very much acting like a lurker only difference being the units it spawns but still such type ranged burrowed attack, Defiler i,e Viper..

Actually the Swarm Host is indeed an improved version of the Lurker. Because you can send the little guys to take the first volley of Siege Tank shots, so than your Zerglings/Roaches/Banelings can go in with a better state of health.

And the Protoss are not new at all. The Tempest is kinda like half of a Corsair which can shoot ground for small amounts of damage. The Replicant is kind of Mind Control from the Dark Archon. And the Oracle... he has that Parasite spell from the Queen from SC:BW, and the role of Phase Shift is create opening in defences (which is exactly the role of the spell from Corsair from BW) or to interrupt the production of your enemy or save your own units from death (as I understand it makes the target invulnerable so I guess you can save your collossi somewhat if need be). Only that Entomb ability is rather original.

Actually, SC2 is better than SC1. Even if the builds are the same... still you don't have that wanky AI. I mean come on.. think of Dragoons! O.O
It will not be a more original product, but at least unit control plays out better.
And I think the weapon/armor system from SC2 is better than the one from SC1.
And just overall stuff you know... like unit selection, replay options... SC2 really does have what to bring to the table in terms of multiplayer competition, even if they are just improvements and not innovations.

Furthermore I am expecting that the Tempest will be downgraded to a unit which costs either 2 or 4 supply instead of 6, and the Carrier will return, and maybe improve somehow the Carrier which currently isn't appealing at all.
Truth be told in SC:BW the Carrier was so good because pathing sucked, and it was so hard to focus all your Hydralisk on one Carrier because of the Interceptors, but now in SC2 it's all so much easier to fight Carriers (I actually won a game when my opponent went Mothership & Mass Carriers and I just countered with Mass Hydralisk and won).

 

[Rispetto]

It's a new anti air protoss unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SG_3R9BoVvg

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I never said it is not better than SC1, just starting to look like SC1 builds, though if you put yourself in their place there wouldnt be much choice to be unique. They should return Ghost Lockdown in that case, would be funny since so many toss units would be affected but that's how SC1 was and it is afterall the most balanced Blizz RTS game

 

[Edhel-dur]

It's a new anti air protoss unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SG_3R9BoVvg

Don't get fooled my the size, it's just a variation of the Corsair.

 

[Darkgamma]

Don't get fooled my the size, it's just a variation of the Corsair.

No, the Blizzard team made a completely new unit!
Look at how there's a difference in the placement of TC!

 

[RiotZ]

Forgot PvZ yes sorry, im mostly posting from Terran prespective. Though some zerg players had such questions why use hydralisk at all, but they may have been noobs. Doesn't matter what the reason is - point is Carriers are barely used so I wonder what a new air unit would possibly counter. Maybe will replace Mothership in PvZ whoever is doing that, since if I were toss I would never go 1-unit-all-game build. Unless it's a very long game I've seen early fast Mothership who would really do that.

Hydras rape terran air pretty hard, except for battlecruisers, they are designed to kill AA.

Hydras only drawback is that they are t2, so you can't use them in a zrush anymore.

Also, Phoenixes are useless piles of dog shit, as well as VRs, they both have shit for health, and either little, or no ability to kill ground units, and aren't dominate vs air, so they become underused. VRs are specialized mainly for killing enemy structures, or masses of weak units, but they can't hold up against AA or enemy air, so they are pretty much useless.

In my opinion, useless units go as following, ultralisk, thor, phoenix, hellion (effective only against chargelots and zerglings this makes them useless imo), and carriers (because they are too expensive, and have shit for health and shields), High Templar (for lack of abilities and hp).

Reapers can be used early game to harass enemy expos, or the enemy's main, they can be very devastating if proper precautions are not followed.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Hydras rape terran air pretty hard, except for battlecruisers, they are designed to kill AA.

That is because Battle Cruisers are one of the strongest units in the game and next to them terran air is rather weak pysically against ground (Air to Air or for support/raiding).

Also, Phoenixes are useless piles of dog shit, as well as VRs, they both have shit for health, and either little, or no ability to kill ground units, and aren't dominate vs air, so they become underused.

Phoenixes are very strong anti Zerg units. They easilly kill Mutalisks thanks to their superiour range, speed, damage and ability to shoot while moving. Their gravatron beam lets a pack of them be used to snipe piority targets such as the queen and some workers. They can also kill overlords which can supply starve a Zerg.

VRs are specialized mainly for killing enemy structures, or masses of weak units, but they can't hold up against AA or enemy air, so they are pretty much useless.

VRs are anti armored. They are weak against masses of units because they cannot charge up unless the beam attacks a single unit for more than a few seconds. They also are glass cannon units so they die very easilly in combat. They are very powerful and you are meant to throw in a few to support your army as the DPS they offer is one of the highest in the game against armoured. Especially if the enemy fails to focuse them down they will charge up and start unleashing great pain against the enemies.

ultralisk

Blizzard agreed with that which is why they are being buffed with some form of charge in HotS (atleast they were planned to be).

thor

They are being replaced with a Thor in HotS which is much stronger. They were being spammed more than intended and ballencing the cannons skill was proving difficult.

phoenix

Used to be the case, but I think the range upgrade solved that.

hellion (effective only against chargelots and zerglings this makes them useless imo)

They are also useful to rush enemy workers as workers are light and can be killed very quickly by a few. Blizzard agreed that they are usless in combat though so in HotS they are receiving a combat mode which boosts their durability by transforming into a walker.

carriers (because they are too expensive, and have shit for health and shields)

Blizzard agreed, this is why Carrier is being removed from HotS completly (bye bye carrier) and replaced with the Tempest battle cruiser (yes, the Terrans now have competition). The Tempest has AoE damage and is very effective against light air units (demonstration showed mutaliks getting whiped easilly using them).

High Templar (for lack of abilities and hp).

You clearly do not know how to use them. Most people thing think the High Templar is the single most powerful unit in the game. You often see professional Protoss using a lot of them in matches (or atleast used to). Ofcourse you need to use them carefully and avoid getting hit by EMP or having them snipped.

Reapers can be used early game to harass enemy expos, or the enemy's main, they can be very devastating if proper precautions are not followed.

The problem is a lot of professional players play in such a way that Reapers would eithor put too much strain on the building player to survive early pushes or that the opponent will sport the Reapers and deploy counter measures before they can get to any mineral lines. Reapers are very fragile and losing a few of them without them doing much damage will likely cost you the game.

 

[RiotZ]

That is because Battle Cruisers are one of the strongest units in the game and next to them terran air is rather weak pysically against ground (Air to Air or for support/raiding).


Phoenixes are very strong anti Zerg units. They easilly kill Mutalisks thanks to their superiour range, speed, damage and ability to shoot while moving. Their gravatron beam lets a pack of them be used to snipe piority targets such as the queen and some workers. They can also kill overlords which can supply starve a Zerg.


VRs are anti armored. They are weak against masses of units because they cannot charge up unless the beam attacks a single unit for more than a few seconds. They also are glass cannon units so they die very easilly in combat. They are very powerful and you are meant to throw in a few to support your army as the DPS they offer is one of the highest in the game against armoured. Especially if the enemy fails to focuse them down they will charge up and start unleashing great pain against the enemies.


Blizzard agreed with that which is why they are being buffed with some form of charge in HotS (atleast they were planned to be).


They are being replaced with a Thor in HotS which is much stronger. They were being spammed more than intended and ballencing the cannons skill was proving difficult.


Used to be the case, but I think the range upgrade solved that.


They are also useful to rush enemy workers as workers are light and can be killed very quickly by a few. Blizzard agreed that they are usless in combat though so in HotS they are receiving a combat mode which boosts their durability by transforming into a walker.


Blizzard agreed, this is why Carrier is being removed from HotS completly (bye bye carrier) and replaced with the Tempest battle cruiser (yes, the Terrans now have competition). The Tempest has AoE damage and is very effective against light air units (demonstration showed mutaliks getting whiped easilly using them).


You clearly do not know how to use them. Most people thing think the High Templar is the single most powerful unit in the game. You often see professional Protoss using a lot of them in matches (or atleast used to). Ofcourse you need to use them carefully and avoid getting hit by EMP or having them snipped.


The problem is a lot of professional players play in such a way that Reapers would eithor put too much strain on the building player to survive early pushes or that the opponent will sport the Reapers and deploy counter measures before they can get to any mineral lines. Reapers are very fragile and losing a few of them without them doing much damage will likely cost you the game.

High Templar are good when your opponent decides to mass all of one unit and you want to soften him up, but their general lack of support capability makes them shit, Dark Templar are much better do to their effectiveness in harasses. If High Templar could attack, they would be much better.

As of now the game is littered with imbalance, cruiser massing is close to unstoppable, as is thor massing, and mutalisk massing, btw, phoenixes are terrible vs mutas, 2 phoenix is equal to 1 muta, and mutas are easier to mass produce since that's what Zerg does best. The best counter for muta massing is only with terran in rine spam and viking hordes. Also mothership's abilities are extremely over powered and make cheesing easy for the basic noob, especially the glitch pertaining to archons and vortex.

 

[Dr Super Good]

cruiser massing is close to unstoppable

And impossible to do. Battle Cruisers cost a lot and take a long time to build so a human could easily kill you in the mean time.

as is thor massing

Same problem with cruiser massing. Also they are very weak against aircraft so things like carriers, battle cruisers and broodlords wipe them.

and mutalisk massing

Thors wipe mutalisks out the skys. Mutalisks are completely useless against phoenix aircraft as they can never hit them and the aircraft deal bonus damage to them.

btw, phoenixes are terrible vs mutas, 2 phoenix is equal to 1 muta, and mutas are easier to mass produce since that's what Zerg does best.

1 phoenix can kill infinite numbers of mutalisks that do not try and box it in. The fact is that they are faster, longer ranged and can shoot while moving means that mutalisks can seldom attack them. They also deal bonus damage to light so mutalisks get killed very quickly.

The best counter for muta massing is only with terran in rine spam and viking hordes.

Mutalisks actually are a soft counter to Vikings. Vikings deal bonus damage to armoured units and mutalisks are not armoured meaning that they are one of the few units which Vikings are weak against. I also do not think Vikings out speed mutalisks so are forced to take damage. Marines do work but you have to be careful as mutalisks can kill marines quite effectively as well if they get close.

The Zerg counter mass mutalisks with infestors and hydralisks. The infestors can keep most of them from attacking while hydralisks can unleash pain on them.

Also mothership's abilities are extremely over powered and make cheesing easy for the basic noob, especially the glitch pertaining to archons and vortex.

Too bad it is made of paper and dies well before it can do anything helpful. Thus why mothership is getting removed from Protoss. Instead Protoss Nexus will be able to summon defences for structures much like chrono boost.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Hydras rape terran air pretty hard, except for battlecruisers, they are designed to kill AA.

Who uses hydras vs T? And which terran uses mass air? In FFA or above 2v2 maybe. If T made late BC, Z would go corruptors and mutas.

In my opinion, useless units go as following, ultralisk, thor, phoenix, hellion (effective only against chargelots and zerglings this makes them useless imo), and carriers (because they are too expensive, and have shit for health and shields), High Templar (for lack of abilities and hp).

How is ultralisk useless? In late games it is an option and often better than broodlords. Ofc before they nerfed ghost snipe it was even better to do less broodlords.

Thors, I don't mind them being replaced I was never fan of them but they are good vs mutas, yes always should go with a medivac to defend with their mobility.

Phoenix with its later upgrade will still be used for anti corruptors or anti muta, I havent seen how their new buff does vs mutas.

Hellions, are needed vs Z, they are far from useless for early harass. No one does late game hellions. Again im not their fan and of mech strats at all, though I like them vs Z and I liked mech TvT before they nerfed the flame upgrade.

Templars are a mega win unit in TvP with ghost recent nerfs and effective storms T army can become a joke, feedback on medivac with units. 'lack of abilities' ....

Reapers can be used early game to harass enemy expos, or the enemy's main, they can be very devastating if proper precautions are not followed.

vs any even mediocre player it won't do anything. Only very early very fast can do something worth 1-2 scvs, zealot or lings. Reaper had its time in the early metagame.

As of now the game is littered with imbalance, cruiser massing is close to unstoppable, as is thor massing, and mutalisk massing, btw, phoenixes are terrible vs mutas,

Yeah if you let someone mass tier 3, it's imba indeed. Where the hell do you even play such.

 

[RiotZ]

Who uses hydras vs T? And which terran uses mass air? In FFA or above 2v2 maybe. If T made late BC, Z would go corruptors and mutas.



How is ultralisk useless? In late games it is an option and often better than broodlords. Ofc before they nerfed ghost snipe it was even better to do less broodlords.

Thors, I don't mind them being replaced I was never fan of them but they are good vs mutas, yes always should go with a medivac to defend with their mobility.

Phoenix with its later upgrade will still be used for anti corruptors or anti muta, I havent seen how their new buff does vs mutas.

Hellions, are needed vs Z, they are far from useless for early harass. No one does late game hellions. Again im not their fan and of mech strats at all, though I like them vs Z and I liked mech TvT before they nerfed the flame upgrade.

Templars are a mega win unit in TvP with ghost recent nerfs and effective storms T army can become a joke, feedback on medivac with units. 'lack of abilities' ....



vs any even mediocre player it won't do anything. Only very early very fast can do something worth 1-2 scvs, zealot or lings. Reaper had its time in the early metagame.



Yeah if you let someone mass tier 3, it's imba indeed. Where the hell do you even play such.

It doesn't matter what tier you mass, it's still imba, Mutalisks are the most over powered unit in the game in my opinion, they rape ground and air, which is completely absurd for the speed they move at.

Ultralisks are shit, they are expensive, slow to mass, and get raped by everything, that's why Zerg players don't use them.

Reapers absolutely annihilate if you use them right, the way you talk about the units makes me feel as though you've never played the game. Saying that you can use Hellions for harass in no different than saying you can use Reapers, because they both work, neither of them can be applied to combat situations very easily, but for taking down defenses or killing an HQ quick, they are great.

Phoenixes over all are OK, but they are not the air supremacy I would have hope for, I miss my scouts.

Also the unit in the picture appears to fire AoE PSI weaponry in the HOTS unit revealing video on youtube.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Have you EVER watched any castings or replays? Because Z uses ultralisks vs T often, they are just an addition but a T needs to get marauds or more tanks for that besides the marine tank.

Ok I admit, I fail with Reapers that's why I don't find them effective as hellions, I was never good with them on any level from Diamond up. But let's see on pro level - find any recent matches where reaper is used even as a single unit? Maybe they are not used for a reason? have you been following the metagame since beta like I have?

Or are you talking about mass reapers, because forget top level no one plays like that to me too? The way you speak about imbalance and mass tier 3 you are new and unexperienced on low league or you play 3v3 4v4 or you wait for your opponents to mass BCs Carriers smth I havent done since i was in the very beginning but sure I'm the one who doesnt know the game... having watched around 500 top replays and played more than 1k 1v1 ladder games. I dont even care about mapmaking or THW or any forums, I will get back to melee since im the noob non Master again with all my mates master with 3K games and more, where I belong and should be - ingame.

 

[RiotZ]

Have you EVER watched any castings or replays? Because Z uses ultralisks vs T often, they are just an addition but a T needs to get marauds or more tanks for that besides the marine tank.

Ok I admit, I fail with Reapers that's why I don't find them effective as hellions, I was never good with them on any level from Diamond up. But let's see on pro level - find any recent matches where reaper is used even as a single unit? Maybe they are not used for a reason? have you been following the metagame since beta like I have?

Or are you talking about mass reapers? The way you speak about imbalance and mass tier 3 you are new and unexperienced on low league or you play 3v3 4v4 or you wait for your opponents to mass BCs Carriers smth I havent done since i was in the very beginning but sure I'm the one who doesnt know the game... having watched around 500 top replays and more than 1k 1v1 ladder games.

I'm the rushing type, but when you are cornered and getting analed, it opens your opponent up for mass BC, mass thor, mass muta.

Six Reapers can take down a shit load of infrastructure in a short period, 6 isn't a mass, yet it can still tear down an enemy's eco. My friend who's a platinum player in 1v1 uses them often and dominates with them 2v2.

Absolutely no one on all of SC2's servers uses Ultras, any time I bring up ultras to a Zerg player, he tells me he doesn't use them because they are shit, so I took it upon myself to try them, and I was not surprised to find the they were correct.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Mass Thor is easilly countered by colossus (or carriers for now), battlecruisers (or mass thor) and infestors with broodlords.

Colossus have long range and can shoot Thors long before they can retaliate. If you use terrain to your advantage you can even force the thors into a sitatuion where they cannot really attack but you can.

Carriers win because the thors are quite ineffectual against them and often will focus the carriers down rather than the interceptors (where mass thors might win because the splash will kill the interceptors).

Battlecruisers have the powerful yammato cannon skill and are highly durable. Thors cannot shot air effectivly so will quickly fall.

Thors might not counter thors, but they are an even match up. They will definatly do better than sending most other units which is good.

Infestors have neural parasite. They cost a fraction of that of a thor and can nural parasite a thor. The other thors will then procede to kill that thor (as there is a lot of them) and so you have just made a huge earning. If you neural parasite enough thors the army will seemingly kill itself. Remember to friendly fire the thors down before neural parastie wears off as they will revert to being hostile again.

Broodlords totally whipe thors. Thors are ineffectual against them while they deal heavy damage to thors. Worse still is their summons will often distract thors causing them to kill expendable troops instead of shooting the broodlords that are spawning the troops. Ofcourse the big problem is the Terran viking but as the player went mass thors I doubt there will be any,

Six Reapers can take down a shit load of infrastructure in a short period, 6 isn't a mass, yet it can still tear down an enemy's eco. My friend who's a platinum player in 1v1 uses them often and dominates with them 2v2.

Until they encounter some maurders, roaches or stalkers which will tear them down before you can say ops. Reapers are very effective if you do not gaurd against them. If you gaurd against them they are completly usless. Let us not forget their cost means you are set back for a period of time which could potentially cause you to lose against an early push.

Absolutely no one on all of SC2's servers uses Ultras, any time I bring up ultras to a Zerg player, he tells me he doesn't use them because they are shit, so I took it upon myself to try them, and I was not surprised to find the they were correct.

They are used in ZvP as they are the only massive ground unit the zerg has. Without them Zerg players would be unable to break down forcefields which would make them unable to push up a protoss ramp. They are also very useful against bio balls and will completly wipe the enemy if you get a bio ball to run into some.

In HotS they are getting a charge buff which will make them even more effective as the current problem is they often die before they can really get to attacking. Especially against colossus and thors, the heavy fire power from a few can kill one before it reaches melee range.

 

[RiotZ]

Mass Thor is easilly countered by colossus (or carriers for now), battlecruisers (or mass thor) and infestors with broodlords.

Colossus have long range and can shoot Thors long before they can retaliate. If you use terrain to your advantage you can even force the thors into a sitatuion where they cannot really attack but you can.

Carriers win because the thors are quite ineffectual against them and often will focus the carriers down rather than the interceptors (where mass thors might win because the splash will kill the interceptors).

Battlecruisers have the powerful yammato cannon skill and are highly durable. Thors cannot shot air effectivly so will quickly fall.

Thors might not counter thors, but they are an even match up. They will definatly do better than sending most other units which is good.

Infestors have neural parasite. They cost a fraction of that of a thor and can nural parasite a thor. The other thors will then procede to kill that thor (as there is a lot of them) and so you have just made a huge earning. If you neural parasite enough thors the army will seemingly kill itself. Remember to friendly fire the thors down before neural parastie wears off as they will revert to being hostile again.

Broodlords totally whipe thors. Thors are ineffectual against them while they deal heavy damage to thors. Worse still is their summons will often distract thors causing them to kill expendable troops instead of shooting the broodlords that are spawning the troops. Ofcourse the big problem is the Terran viking but as the player went mass thors I doubt there will be any,


Until they encounter some maurders, roaches or stalkers which will tear them down before you can say ops. Reapers are very effective if you do not gaurd against them. If you gaurd against them they are completly usless. Let us not forget their cost means you are set back for a period of time which could potentially cause you to lose against an early push.



They are used in ZvP as they are the only massive ground unit the zerg has. Without them Zerg players would be unable to break down forcefields which would make them unable to push up a protoss ramp. They are also very useful against bio balls and will completly wipe the enemy if you get a bio ball to run into some.

In HotS they are getting a charge buff which will make them even more effective as the current problem is they often die before they can really get to attacking. Especially against colossus and thors, the heavy fire power from a few can kill one before it reaches melee range.

Countering mass thors is the easiest I would say.

Mass BC and Mutas are hard as hell to deal with. Corruptors and Vikings are relatively effective against both, but not to the point where they are cost effective.

Why is there no mobile AA for any of the factions? This would make air raids so much easier to stop, and balance the game a ton.

 

[Reaper51]

Countering mass thors is the easiest I would say.

Mass BC and Mutas are hard as hell to deal with. Corruptors and Vikings are relatively effective against both, but not to the point where they are cost effective.

Why is there no mobile AA for any of the factions? This would make air raids so much easier to stop, and balance the game a ton.

Its called micro.

Terran lacks mobility in the anti-air department, but you should not have a problem as toss or zerg.

Riotz srsly you only had the game for a week, you are not pro in sc2 if you are in silver lawl.

People in that league just cheese, cheese and more cheese.

Team games are all about abusing one unit, that's why I don't like them.

 

[RiotZ]

Its called micro.

Riotz srsly you only had the game for a week, you are not pro in sc2 if you are in silver lawl.

It doesn't take longer than a week to tactically understand an RTS. I would be in gold / platinum if I had the chance to place again, there's always next season.

Though it took me months of playing DoW.

You can't micro Mutalisks, but you're right microing BC and Thors is easy a hell.

 

[Reaper51]

It doesn't take longer than a week to tactically understand an RTS. I would be in gold / platinum if I had the chance to place again, there's always next season.

Though it took me months of playing DoW.

You can't micro Mutalisks, but you're right microing BC and Thors is easy a hell.

BC and Thors cost a shitton to mass, try raven PDD and a few vikings : )

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Mass Thor is easilly countered by colossus (or carriers for now), battlecruisers (or mass thor) and infestors with broodlords.

Colossus have long range and can shoot Thors long before they can retaliate. If you use terrain to your advantage you can even force the thors into a sitatuion where they cannot really attack but you can.

Carriers win because the thors are quite ineffectual against them and often will focus the carriers down rather than the interceptors (where mass thors might win because the splash will kill the interceptors).

That is just theorizing. idk who ever uses thors vs P (im not fan of mech vs P) but let's not forget you need lots of units vs toss, so it's a waste of resources, unless he has some mass phoenix which why would he ever do? P would go normal units and doesn't need carriers that they never use anyway to stop thor.

Battlecruisers have the powerful yammato cannon skill and are highly durable. Thors cannot shot air effectivly so will quickly fall.

BCs hard counter thors so yes.

Broodlords totally whipe thors. Thors are ineffectual against them while they deal heavy damage to thors. Worse still is their summons will often distract thors causing them to kill expendable troops instead of shooting the broodlords that are spawning the troops. Ofcourse the big problem is the Terran viking but as the player went mass thors I doubt there will be any,

A good combo of Thors AND vikings is good against corruptor and broodlords but pure thors die ofc. But you shouldn't MASS thors, they are for support, rest should be MM

Six Reapers can take down a shit load of infrastructure in a short period, 6 isn't a mass, yet it can still tear down an enemy's eco. My friend who's a platinum player in 1v1 uses them often and dominates with them 2v2.

Absolutely no one on all of SC2's servers uses Ultras, any time I bring up ultras to a Zerg player, he tells me he doesn't use them because they are shit, so I took it upon myself to try them, and I was not surprised to find the they were correct.

The story of the Reaper is like that: in Beta and the early time it was used very much, you've got fast baracks, bunker rush with reaper. Blizz fixed that by constantly nerfing reaper and the barracks and bunker, you can check how many times baracks and bunker got build time increase. So this got completely useless to make, no one makes such rush.

Adding early 5-6 reapers vs Z would be ok as long as he doesn't do Roaches which he will when he finds out. Then again put some lings on the cliff and reaper without sight climbing up will be eaten. If it work for you, I doubt it will at higher leagues. In most cases it is so easy to stop them by just hanging on the cliff.

Ultralisks are used in late games, you havent seen any pro games that's why you say so. It's called 'transition', but yes it's wrong to start the game and play straight for ultralisks, you start with normal lings mutas whatever then if lots of money make ultras or broods. That's how ultras are used.

Players don't use ultras because they win or lose before they reach that late game xD But ever since the nerf of ghost to not snipe broodlords that much I wouldn't be surprised if broods become more used.

Also Platinum is not good, only from high diam and up. Those who have the potential wouldn't be in platinum for long anyway. Watch top replays or caster's videos, they show more what you should do and don't.

 

[RiotZ]

That is just theorizing. idk who ever uses thors vs P (im not fan of mech vs P) but let's not forget you need lots of units vs toss, so it's a waste of resources, unless he has some mass phoenix which why would he ever do? P would go normal units and doesn't need carriers that they never use anyway to stop thor.



BCs hard counter thors so yes.



A good combo of Thors AND vikings is good against corruptor and broodlords but pure thors die ofc. But you shouldn't MASS thors, they are for support, rest should be MM




The story of the Reaper is like that: in Beta and the early time it was used very much, you've got fast baracks, bunker rush with reaper. Blizz fixed that by constantly nerfing reaper and the barracks and bunker, you can check how many times baracks and bunker got build time increase. So this got completely useless to make, no one makes such rush.

Adding early 5-6 reapers vs Z would be ok as long as he doesn't do Roaches which he will when he finds out. Then again put some lings on the cliff and reaper without sight climbing up will be eaten. If it work for you, I doubt it will at higher leagues. In most cases it is so easy to stop them by just hanging on the cliff.

Ultralisks are used in late games, you havent seen any pro games that's why you say so. It's called 'transition', but yes it's wrong to start the game and play straight for ultralisks, you start with normal lings mutas whatever then if lots of money make ultras or broods. That's how ultras are used.

Players don't use ultras because they win or lose before they reach that late game xD But ever since the nerf of ghost to not snipe broodlords that much I wouldn't be surprised if broods become more used.

Also Platinum is not good, only from high diam and up. Those who have the potential wouldn't be in platinum for long anyway. Watch top replays or caster's videos, they show more what you should do and don't.

Skill doesn't have anything to do with ranking you know, because it's not based on set numbers, but how well everyone else, appears to be performing. I started in Silver's highest rank when I placed 1v1 the first day I got the game mind you, I haven't lost but 5-6 games, and I'm in 2nd tier of bronze. The ranking system is lackluster because of the way it works, based on points I mean, but that's just me.

Last game was a 2v2 I made 7 Reapers, brought them to a cliff, swooped into the enemy's base (he was Terran) killed 2 buildings and several workers, as soon as he brought MMM I pulled down cliff, and only lost a single Reaper, but still did around 400 / 200 in damage to his infrastructure. That is what Reapers do, that is what jetpack units do in every game, and what they will continue to do. Apply a little micro brosif. Reapers are so fucking cheap that I still had 4 tanks and a bit of MM in my base, and this is roughly 6-7 minutes in.

As for you Reaper51 BC and Thor don't cost that much, if you have 2 fully operational expos, you're set for massing of any unit really. Vikings do shit vs BC, and Thors' only weakness is aerial massing, such as Mutas, Carriers, or BC. Thors can be killed with Immortals, or Colossi, but chances are if your opponent has a mass of Thors, you are losing the economic struggle, and you will continue to if you keep sustaining more losses than him.