New Game For DoTA Lovers

[Vengeancekael]

@Nudl9 sry if you are feeling bad for my Dota is trash i hate that Game auctually i hate AoS untill i saw LoL ok i tell im not pro in AoS but i love the gameplay the fight and everything ok the graphic is not the best but i know that the graphic is made so the gameplay will be more interesting so see that... HoN is even better trash from Dota i saw a little gameplays,trailer and really i dont like them both

"Because your opinion matters, you are a well know famous game critic."
- Said by the truly fabulous and power abusing Joe-Black-5

 

[Gilles]

You obviously haven't played enough DotA, from a mere outsiders perspective DotA is pretty crap. It's not untill you really into the game and especially once you get above pubtier level, that you start to realise how complex DotA really is. It's a game that requires a fair amount of skills. LoL is basicly trash in terms of skill level because it's a dumbed down by alot, which is why DotA players laugh at the idea of competetive LoL.

I'm curious as to how LoL is "trash in terms of skill". I didn't play much DotA at all, so I wouldn't really know the meta game much, so I'm genuinely curious. Besides denying what are the big differences?

Looking at it from an objective view, you'd assume LoL (and HoN) is better simply because it looks better, isn't limited by wc3, has it's own game client, ect.

 

[Super-Sheep]

I'm curious as to how LoL is "trash in terms of skill". I didn't play much DotA at all, so I wouldn't really know the meta game much, so I'm genuinely curious. Besides denying what are the big differences?

I cant play League of Legends because:
- They removed whole denying system claiming that it was unneeded mechanic but the sad thruth is that they removed it to make it more casual friendly.
- You cant juke or destroy trees. They replaced this with their dumb bushes.
- Also as far as I have seen there are hardly any cliffs making juking even more nonexistant and dumbing the value of the wards.
- No Roshan aka. the big boss who gives you benefits if you are able to get him down but taking him down is very risky.
- They think that by giving casters ability power is making the game more balanced even if it just broke the whole balance and killed the real purpose of the support.
- Half of the champions are female and every spell got many unnecessary flashy effects making it ideal for casuals who are looking for a "fun" game to play.
- Almost every champion comes with a pseudo Blink. And again they call it balance for a some reason even if it was yet again just breaking it.
- The game is 5on5 (?) and yet it seems that they are trying to balance it too much between 1on1 with their pseudo spells.
- The average age of the community is around 15 years while Dota's is around 20 years. (forums)
- You do not lose gold from dying. Making it again ideal for those who just want to farm for shit 24/7 and then faceroll the other team unlikely in Dota your farm can be ruined by a one or two ganks.
- There are no runes/powerups in the rivers or anywhere making warding again less important and ganking more harder. This also makes a lot of people ignore map awarness part and just play in dumb way. Notice that theres neither Roshan who should be warded to be able to counter-Rosh the other team.
- Theres no item like Smoke of Deceit meaning that by placing enough wards you can be completely gank proof.
- Every champion is able to teleport back to base meaning that you dont need to invest any gold or ability slots to teleportation scrolls. Dumbed down again once more.
- A lot of the items add more than just one stat for one meaning. Like a lot of caster stuff comes with armor. Yet many of the items fail to have a real purpose and a lot of them seem to be a mix between other items rendering them unoriginal and random.
- I dont have more time to continue my list but hopefully you get the point.

So yeah thats a bit of the metagame differences... Too bad that its too much.

 

[Foronisus]

the bad thing is that you compare dota to LoL auctually its way better with not buying a scroll of teleport..wasting money on nothing also if it was stupid it wont have 15 milion players im going

 

[Super-Sheep]

the bad thing is that you compare dota to LoL auctually its way better with not buying a scroll of teleport..wasting money on nothing also if it was stupid it wont have 15 milion players im going

No, sir.

It is your turn to say your arguments why League of Legends wouldnt be worse than Defence of the Ancients.

Otherwise I have to stay with the fact that League of Legends is a piece of crap designed for kids who want to play a game that is free.

If you are unable to provide a reply then please stop saying that "LoL is better than DotA ".

 

[SA Dashie]

Dota is probably the reason why Wc3 does not have as much attention from Blizzard and why people can get sued for making heaps powerfull maps on Sc2 as if one person is lucky enough to make a good map that got populure for some reason it would turn into something like Dota in popularity therefore Wc4 being delayed because of this matter.
*just me thinking*

 

[xorkatoss]

Otherwise I have to stay with the fact that League of Legends is a piece of crap designed for kids who want to play a game that is free.

FREE? SERIOUSLY!!?
do you even know how many ppl downloaded wc3 and play Dota on Garena?
In fact i hope all Dota players move on Garena because im sick of seeing Dota games on b.net

all that blah blah blah you said about Dota being better than LoL is your opinion...
Recall ability on LoL is really good(IMO), i played Dota one time and it was sooooooooooooo boring to walk all the way back to the base....
plus in case you didn't knew...LoL is focused on hero fights, that's the reason it doesn't have op creeps like Dota...

 

[Super-Sheep]

FREE? SERIOUSLY!!?
do you even know how many ppl downloaded wc3 and play Dota on Garena?
In fact i hope all Dota players move on Garena because im sick of seeing Dota games on b.net

all that blah blah blah you said about Dota being better than LoL is your opinion...
Recall ability on LoL is really good(IMO), i played Dota one time and it was sooooooooooooo boring to walk all the way back to the base....
plus in case you didn't knew...LoL is focused on hero fights, that's the reason it doesn't have op creeps like Dota...

I was speaking mainly about the competitive level... Looks like I just have to rest my case then as you cant repond with anything constructive.

And about the free thing. Tell me one game that isnt downloaded and played illegally nowadays. Duh.

 

[Gilles]

I cant play League of Legends because:
- They removed whole denying system claiming that it was unneeded mechanic but the sad thruth is that they removed it to make it more casual friendly.
- You cant juke or destroy trees. They replaced this with their dumb bushes.
- Also as far as I have seen there are hardly any cliffs making juking even more nonexistant and dumbing the value of the wards.

There are cliffs.

- No Roshan aka. the big boss who gives you benefits if you are able to get him down but taking him down is very risky.

There both Baron (aka Roshan) and Dragon, a slightly less tough, but worth good gold.

- They think that by giving casters ability power is making the game more balanced even if it just broke the whole balance and killed the real purpose of the support.

I don't see how this "broke" anything. Now mages actually deal damage late game. Also there are still good support heroes.

- The game is 5on5 (?) and yet it seems that they are trying to balance it too much between 1on1 with their pseudo spells.

Not really true. There's plenty of characters that are built for 1v1, and other for team fights.

- The average age of the community is around 15 years while Dota's is around 20 years. (forums)

Pretty sure you pulled this out of your ass.

- Theres no item like Smoke of Deceit meaning that by placing enough wards you can be completely gank proof.

Yes there is. Oracles.

- A lot of the items add more than just one stat for one meaning. Like a lot of caster stuff comes with armor. Yet many of the items fail to have a real purpose and a lot of them seem to be a mix between other items rendering them unoriginal and random.

Not sure how this is a bad thing, or how it "fails to give purpose".

- I dont have more time to continue my list but hopefully you get the point.

So yeah thats a bit of the metagame differences... Too bad that its too much.

I get the point. You like DotA more, which is fine, but it's not actually all that better. Especially for a casual gamer like myself.

 

[Nudl9]

No, DotA is generally a good and balanced fun map. It's A MAP, not a game.

It's considered a game or mod because it grew so immensively popular and defined a new way of gaming in general. People download/buy WC3 just to play DotA, thus is a game in itself.

There are cliffs.

They don't play a very big role in the game.
The juking in DotA is a huge part of the game, for me juking is a definition of fun. There's just so incredibly much you can do and it increases your survivability by 150% if you do it right.
Take this video for example, by abusing the line of sight Tempest can avoid a seemingly avoidable gank.

Pretty sure you pulled this out of your ass.

Well he's still got a point, the average age of LoL players are far low.

i played Dota one time and it was sooooooooooooo boring to walk all the way back to the base...

Good players rarely need to walk back and always stay for as long as they can to gain as much xp and gold as they can. Same with teamfights, you stick around if you got any mana left.

Trying not to sound so biased, because i'm not.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Yes there is. Oracles.

Funny how little you know about the League of Legends as a player. Thats just making some of my points more valid. Oracle's Elixir is an elixir that acts similiar to the Gem of True Sight and gets removed upon death. Yet it has no connection to the Smoke of Deceit in any way.

 

[Foronisus]

League of Legends have good team fight... maybe you are the one who did not played LoL... I play it every day and see that its very good and its more team play than 1v1.I was losing untill we re-grouped and all together won the enemies so its not just in the spells and enemies its about skill too and also tactics... do i need to tell more?

 

[Gilles]

They don't play a very big role in the game.
The juking in DotA is a huge part of the game, for me juking is a definition of fun. There's just so incredibly much you can do and it increases your survivability by 150% if you do it right.
Take this video for example, by abusing the line of sight Tempest can avoid a seemingly avoidable gank.

They play a huge role. Dragon and Baron are common cliffs to use as escapes, as well as top left jungle and, middle cliffs. I don't know DotA well enough, so perhaps there are more unique and interesting ways to juke, but you're argument that LoL doesn't have it (or "it doesn't play a big role) is garbage. People juke a lot.

Well he's still got a point, the average age of LoL players are far low.

I honestly have no idea what the average age of players is for either game. I would assume if you play low levels or low elo, yes, but lvl 30 and especially high elo games are probably at least 16+.

Trying not to sound so biased, because i'm not.

I am obviously, but I'm not trying to argue that any one game is better (since that's relative), just pointing out when I disagree with points people make about LoL.

The three main reasons I never enjoyed DotA are; the lack of intelligence adding to someones magic damage, so mages spells suck latter, except to support; I hated some of the heroes (most notably the girl that shot small versions of herself and the hydralisk); and the large learning curve for gameplay and items.

Honestly I only got into LoL because it's pretty casual. So if you do prefer less casual games, fair enough. I suppose you could argue LoL is just as competitive, but I wouldn't know since I don't play ranked games.

Funny how little you know about the League of Legends as a player. Thats just making some of my points more valid. Oracle's Elixir is an elixir that acts similiar to the Gem of True Sight and gets removed upon death. Yet it has no connection to the Smoke of Deceit in any way.

I don't know the items in DotA, so I had to look it up and misread what it did, mostly because I assumed it gave vision since you said something about wards making you ungankable. My bad, although I don't see how that makes me know less about LoL, I know perfectly well how oracles works.

 

[Jaret]

Ok, to clear out (once, and for all) why DotA does and doesn't suck. The game itself is cutting edge. The community ain't. And by community i mean both those who hate and love it. Pros who love it are pretty much assholes, and make it unenjoyable for those whom play it for fun. Those who hate it are those who complain about DotA being "overrated". IT AIN'T. It's just the fact that DotA started off really early (when AoS wasn't really that "ordinary") and gained a large following quite fastly because of that.

Anyways, I never have played LoL, but my friends have. They have both played DotA and LoL (about 10 of them) and they all said the same thing: DotA is much more flexible and interesting than LoL. They just lol'd at LoL, saying that LoL is monotone in a way. I think gameplay-wise, most likely. I don't know.

 

[Foronisus]

Than your friends dont know to play AoS game or map how can i say...

 

[Luorax]

LoL is way better made than DotA. First of all, I'm not sure if we should call a map without proper keybindings a map.... those bindings are stupid, I can't imagine how is it not fixed yet...

That's not what makes LoL better tho', but the fact that casters in LoL are CASTERS, not QWER then right click champions. All the roles are separated and each role requires a whole new thinking to play it succesfully and well.

The rune system is also revamped and it works much better - in DotA you can't really protect those kind of buffs, a hero with some sort of a movement ability or with high movement speed can easily rush there and steal it. In LoL, you really have to fight from them, in LoL buff control exists.

Heroes are much better and more funny - even the old ones, that were kinda easy, not that complicated ones.

These are just the basics. To be honest, I did not play DotA too much; I consider myself an old WC3 fan, just like my friends, and we all hate DotA because it's boring as hell. I was a little bit affraid before trying LoL out, but hell yea, it definitely worth that try. It's just amazing and a real new generation of AoS style things.

 

[millzy]

dota 2 is where its at cant wait

trailer for dota 2 woooo baby

pfffffffffffffft lol hon is much better lol is so slow past and realy simple and noobed out e.g in hon i get average kd of say 6-9 kills 0-5 deaths in lol games my kd is like 14-23 kills and 0-3 deaths lol is so easy also the graphics of hon is better

please notice that i have posted this without reading all the posts in the thread since there is 5 pages -_-

 

[Luorax]

So you're saying LoL is "noobed down", because it has a very well working match making system that won't let you play against more experienced players... as an average WC3 AoS player you can easily get many kills by selecting a pubstomper at lower levels.

Also, why is LoL n00bed down? Just because things have been reworked to work better and much more logical? Hell yea, that's true.

Also, I'm always ready for a 1v1. Add me in LoL, and we'll see how many kills can you get against me. You know what? I'm gonna pick a random champion.

 

[Super-Sheep]

So you're saying LoL is "noobed down", because it has a very well working match making system that won't let you play against more experienced players... as an average WC3 AoS player you can easily get many kills by selecting a pubstomper at lower levels.

Also, why is LoL n00bed down? Just because things have been reworked to work better and much more logical? Hell yea, that's true.

Also, I'm always ready for a 1v1. Add me in LoL, and we'll see how many kills can you get against me. You know what? I'm gonna pick a random champion.

I never expected anyone to read the thread anyway. You might want to read throught it to find an answer to your problems. Also Dota 1 does have matchmaking system if you play in leagues because it is technically impossible to do inside of the Warcraft III engine.

 

[Nudl9]

LoL is way better made than DotA. First of all, I'm not sure if we should call a map without proper keybindings a map.... those bindings are stupid, I can't imagine how is it not fixed yet...

Theres a ton of third party tools to enchance the DotA experience..

 

[Luorax]

I never expected anyone to read the thread anyway. You might want to read throught it to find an answer to your problems. Also Dota 1 does have matchmaking system if you play in leagues because it is technically impossible to do inside of the Warcraft III engine.

I did not read it because I'm not interested of reading a bad "get some free IP boost" try. Also, what problems are you talking about?

Theres a ton of third party tools to enchance the DotA experience..

The only third party tool I can imagine is a simple tool that deletes all copy of DotA from my HDD each time I log into my windows profile. That'd be cool.

 

[Super-Sheep]

I did not read it because I'm not interested of reading a bad "get some free IP boost" try. Also, what problems are you talking about?

Because you just talked about how the game is n00bed down and stuff... One page backwards, please.

The only third party tool I can imagine is a simple tool that deletes all copy of DotA from my HDD each time I log into my windows profile. That'd be cool.

Judging from this post you have been now marked as a lolfag. I am sorry to use this term but I just have to use it when people have to talk about shit and try to be funny while dissing other games without providing any viable points or arguments to fuel their posts.

 

[Luorax]

My first post in this topic was written today and the first post on this page is from yesterday... so what about the 4th page?

Also, I wrote down why I like LoL and hate DotA - maybe it was not detailed enough, but the point was not to write a huge wall of text.

 

[Super-Sheep]

My first post in this topic was written today and the first post on this page is from yesterday... so what about the 4th page?

Also, I wrote down why I like LoL and hate DotA - maybe it was not detailed enough, but the point was not to write a huge wall of text.

The thing is that in case if you want to say that LoL is superior compared to Dota then you have to write a huge wall of text. Otherwise you have to just admit that it is your own opinion that LoL is better and that you cant state reasons about it.

 

[Luorax]

Oh, wait a moment... does "good game" even exist? I thought it's a relative definition...

It's kinda obvious that it was my opinion. If you were not a dota**, you would not start to call me @@ and lol** after 2 posts.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Oh, wait a moment... does "good game" even exist? I thought it's a relative definition...

It's kinda obvious that it was my opinion. If you were not a dota**, you would not start to call me @@ and lol** after 2 posts.

Because you acted like Dota would have been crap without giving any statements.

Sorry if I did misunderstand you, sir.

 

[Luorax]

Well, I don't say that DotA is crap - DotA iss simply not something I like. I like action and I don't like to wait for my cooldowns or stay in one place and channel something or keep attacking.

It's a know fact that DotA has most likely high cooldowns and high mana costs. Well, similar heroes exist also in LoL too, but I think they're shitty too. My favourites are Vladimir, Cassiopeia and Orianna - if you check their abilities, you'll see why. Low cooldowns, cool AoE skillset, utility, pure action.

On the other hand, I don't like to play a ranged carry. It simply messes me up if my hero is not there where the target is. In DotA even the casters have to attack because of the damage they get for stacking INT. In LoL you don't have to; as a sustained AP caster with low cooldowns (like Vladimir) you can keep casting, and as a nuker (like Veigar) you have to run as far as possible after burning your combo or you'll get 2 hitted.

I also don't like that IceFrog made his map for octopuses.

So why I don't like DotA is the basic concept of its heroes. Maybe we've got some funny items and similar stuffs, but I simply don't have a hero that I like to play. That's not because I'm a lol** - I started to play LoL last september and I did not like DotA in 2009. To be honest (and as I've mentioned before), I was a little bit affraid before trying LoL out - but I liked it (although the whole gamestyle was new for me)

Once again, I'm not trying to say that DotA is crap - this little wall of text covers why I don't like it.

 

[xorkatoss]

My favourites are Vladimir

omg you must be a big pu**y to play with vlad
that champion is one of the top pu**iest champions!!

Reasons:
1)Blood Pool is 100% an ability for for pu**ies...can't be targeted for a set amount of time...
2)Drain - another 100% ability for pu**sies, especially on vlad because of no mana cost and short cooldown
3)Ranged - Vlad is a ranged champion.ALL ranged champions are pu**sies because all you do is hit from a distance!! and when close combat champions try to come near you, all you do is run like fking PU**SY!!

 

[Luorax]

Lol'd so hard. You're most likely a low level "player" that got owned by one of the weakest AP carries in the game.

 

[xorkatoss]

Lol'd so hard. You're most likely a low level "player" that got owned by one of the weakest AP carries in the game.

im not a low level, i was playing LoL for quite a long time and that's my opinion about vlad...i use to play with AP champions like Ryze and Katarina but in the end i switched to AD and was only playing with Xin Zhao,since he is sooo awesome *_*
being weakest AP carry doesn't mean you can't own, all you need is a good feed at the start...a fed champion is a good champion...
there were games that vlad was really bad and other games that he was ownning...

plus that was the only think you could think of? probably you said that because you can't proove me wrong...

 

[Gilles]

Thanks for destroying the thread Luorax. You turned a perfectly good discussion into flaming in a few posts.

Lol'd so hard. You're most likely a low level "player" that got owned by one of the weakest AP carries in the game.

Vlad is a pretty decent carry (Tier 2 from the list I've seen), not sure what you're talking about.

 

[defskull]

Ignitedstar, what is Heroes of Newerth?

 

[Hallfiry]

To come back to the first post, this is the closed beta invitation from September 8th 2009:

too bad all imagelinks are broken

EDIT:
I found some LoL beta pics on my photobucket account

LoL Beta

 

[Foronisus]

hmm i like how the user interface was in Beta

 

[Admortis]

I cant play League of Legends because:
- They removed whole denying system claiming that it was unneeded mechanic but the sad thruth is that they removed it to make it more casual friendly.
- You cant juke or destroy trees. They replaced this with their dumb bushes.
- Also as far as I have seen there are hardly any cliffs making juking even more nonexistant and dumbing the value of the wards.
- No Roshan aka. the big boss who gives you benefits if you are able to get him down but taking him down is very risky.
- They think that by giving casters ability power is making the game more balanced even if it just broke the whole balance and killed the real purpose of the support.
- Half of the champions are female and every spell got many unnecessary flashy effects making it ideal for casuals who are looking for a "fun" game to play.
- Almost every champion comes with a pseudo Blink. And again they call it balance for a some reason even if it was yet again just breaking it.
- The game is 5on5 (?) and yet it seems that they are trying to balance it too much between 1on1 with their pseudo spells.
- The average age of the community is around 15 years while Dota's is around 20 years. (forums)
- You do not lose gold from dying. Making it again ideal for those who just want to farm for shit 24/7 and then faceroll the other team unlikely in Dota your farm can be ruined by a one or two ganks.
- There are no runes/powerups in the rivers or anywhere making warding again less important and ganking more harder. This also makes a lot of people ignore map awarness part and just play in dumb way. Notice that theres neither Roshan who should be warded to be able to counter-Rosh the other team.
- Theres no item like Smoke of Deceit meaning that by placing enough wards you can be completely gank proof.
- Every champion is able to teleport back to base meaning that you dont need to invest any gold or ability slots to teleportation scrolls. Dumbed down again once more.
- A lot of the items add more than just one stat for one meaning. Like a lot of caster stuff comes with armor. Yet many of the items fail to have a real purpose and a lot of them seem to be a mix between other items rendering them unoriginal and random.
- I dont have more time to continue my list but hopefully you get the point.

So yeah thats a bit of the metagame differences... Too bad that its too much.

I'd like to preface this post by saying that I'm happy that you enjoy Dota more than LoL, I'd just rather neither side talk about things they're not particularly aware of.

-First and foremost, a lack of denies puts greater emphasis on ganks, because it becomes the surefire way to deny your enemy of XP and gold. Fully aware that ganks occur in dota, perhaps just more common in LoL.
-Juking is just as possible, albeit in fewer locations. Personally, I prefer being able to secure a kill which I deserve due to an enemy being absurdly overextended, but if you like escaping due to having tango's and higher MS, coolbeans. Personally, I think War3's line of sight system is the worst thing ever, because 1 tree blocking a 160 degree view makes so much sense.
-Wards are always used for Dragon, Baron and the two lizards/golems, in addition to various bushes for timing and avoiding ganks.
-Mages are just as balanced as physicals. I can't imagine this point was made with sufficient experience on the matter.
-Champion sex and ability graphics are irrelevant. Their effects are important. I like that LoL has more unique spells than 'The single target single duration left click stun'. You enjoy your Leoric stun, now.
-Untrue, but there is a blink summoner spell (which anybody can use, for reference). Which is being removed in an upcoming patch.
-Untrue. I play casual 2v2's with my friends, and it is EXTREMELY clear that champions are very obviously designed with 5v5 in mind. Champions that trash in some situations are trashed in others, as it should be.
-Please.
-If the XP, Gold and outnumbering your opponents for a time aren't big enough advantages, you're a bit of a twit, aren't you?
-No Roshan. But there is a Baron, a Dragon, two lizards and two golems. All of which can be (and frequently are) stolen, and all of which are always warded in high end games. And same as dota, if you've got bad map awareness, you're getting 3v1 ganked. Good try, though.
-True. Though they're adding an item with the same effect next (or in a coming) patch, though it will be a proper item, and not a consumable.
-Less walking, more action. I like that, feel free to not like that.
-There are more stats in League of Legends, so it is more reasonable for there to be more stats on more items. The question is; what two or more stats do YOU need in this SPECIFIC situation? Items are sometimes less unique, but fill a better niche role, which I like. Tanking, I never get the same build, because enemy teams always have different damage types and ratios of magic to physical.

I like the meta differences. Feel free to not. There is no such thing as the 'better game', just a matter of preference, and misinformation.

I'm going to try Dota 2, for sure. But chances are, the community (which tends to be more braise, in my experience) and the copy+paste of previous, bad mechanics (no differentiation between spells, the str/agi/int system) will probably lead me back to LoL.

Also, enjoy your qwop hands =)

Tiny Edit: If you insist, I will give reasons why I believe LoL to be better, but I prefer to leave it at an 'matter of opinion' stage.

 

[Nudl9]

-First and foremost, a lack of denies puts greater emphasis on ganks, because it becomes the surefire way to deny your enemy of XP and gold. Fully aware that ganks occur in dota, perhaps just more common in LoL.

Denying doesn't really affect the ganking at all. All it does is add to the cognetive and competetive gameplay. That's why even if it doesn't make sense, they still want it to remain. The same goes for stacking creep camps, originally an unintentional bug that's been exploited, but because it adds depth to the game it remains.

Personally, I prefer being able to secure a kill which I deserve due to an enemy being absurdly overextended, but if you like escaping due to having tango's and higher MS

Juking isn't limited to just escaping with tangos and ms. You can use the whole part of the gallery of items. The only limit is your creativity. For example in high tiers you often see people using health potions in between attacks for milliseconds and thus saving themselves. Other ways include using blindsone, cliffleaping, blocking, unexpected turns, unitwalking, treepaths, chopping trees, doing merry rounds, blink/charge, teleport, list goes on...
Where most games try to force situations and your own actions upon you, you are creativity is a huge factor to how it's played out. You don't often see this in modern games anymore because the developers want everything to be controlled by their vision.

I like that LoL has more unique spells than 'The single target single duration left click stun'. You enjoy your Leoric stun, now.

I think both LoL and some of the DotA heroes have argueably boring abilities. Guinsoo even stated the fact that he's against any type of "fun" abilities like Rupture (buff that deals damage when moving), which have influenced LoL in such a bad way. While DotA's newer heroes (AA, Gyro, Phoenix much?) are extremely fun and original, the old heroes could use some rework. Nothing is worse then having to play Leoric, Sven, Lich or Vengefull Spirit. While there are multiple opinions on the abilities in LoL, coming from a person who's been mapping for several years and genuinly interested in AoS maps/games, i think it's rightfully to say they are pretty bad. They just lack any form of synergy between abilities, which is the "golden achievement" when creating a hero. For perfect synergy, see Vela the Bone Collector from Desert of Exile.

 

[Gilles]

I think both LoL and some of the DotA heroes have argueably boring abilities. Guinsoo even stated the fact that he's against any type of "fun" abilities like Rupture (buff that deals damage when moving), which have influenced LoL in such a bad way. While DotA's newer heroes (AA, Gyro, Phoenix much?) are extremely fun and original, the old heroes could use some rework. Nothing is worse then having to play Leoric, Sven, Lich or Vengefull Spirit. While there are multiple opinions on the abilities in LoL, coming from a person who's been mapping for several years and genuinly interested in AoS maps/games, i think it's rightfully to say they are pretty bad. They just lack any form of synergy between abilities, which is the "golden achievement" when creating a hero. For perfect synergy, see Vela the Bone Collector from Desert of Exile.

I think LoL does an acceptable job with abilities, but I agree it could use work. They definitely rehash a lot of ideas and spells. EotA has always been the most innovative AoS when it comes to heroes in my opinion.

 

[Edhel-dur]

^EotA?

 

[Gilles]

^EotA?

AoS mod for wc3; Eve of the Apocalypse. Not that well balanced at all from what I remember, but other than that was made really well. There were 4 different "maps" within the one mod that players voted on once the game started. All the heroes had unique spells, items were upgradable, there was more ways to win other than destroying the other teams base, and more.

 

[Edhel-dur]

How come it didn't get popular ? Balance issues ?

 

[Gilles]

How come it didn't get popular ? Balance issues ?

Perhaps. Probably a combination of new players getting owned really really hard since there was a lot to learn, balance, and bad luck.

 

[Orcnet]

LOL = HON = DotA = DotA II = AOS games.

that's it.

 

[Admortis]

LOL = HON = DotA = DotA II = AOS games.

that's it.

This is quite ignorant indeed! Congrats.

On the topic of juking, I'm extremely biased due to my delay. I consistantly get 250 ms, up to 800, and it sounds silly, but I find juking to be extremely OVERPOWERED when I've got that kind of delay, because it is physically impossible for me to rectify my mistakes in following as people with better internet might.

As far as spells go, I find that all mainstream AoS' do lack a bit, though I'd insist LoL has more original stuff than Dota. Advent of the Zenith was always a favorite of mine. Scamp had personality that I would murder for.

On the subject of rupture, well...
In terms of lose/lose situations, it is hard to go past. Don't run, and you're 'overextended'. Run and take an absurdly high amount of damage. I'm against rupture like spells, which have multiple functions but require absolutely no skill to use. A spell with rupture's effect, but only applied with a skillshot? I'd get on board with that.

 

[Nudl9]

Perhaps. Probably a combination of new players getting owned really really hard since there was a lot to learn, balance, and bad luck.

This, from what i remember it's hard to get into. Moreso then any other AoS map i've played, but it was interesting.. felt like i had a ton of options which left me dumbfounded.

@Orcnet
Point being?

@Admortis
-250 ms? are you serious? you need a better ISP man.

-I agree, there's always something that bugs me about most maps:
DoE games lack replayability
AotZ progresses too slowly
AoM balance.. well it still works..
RoW waaay too experimental abilities, gold per minute is too low
ToB needed updates
DotA stuns stuns, farm based, punishing towards new players

-Rupture is in ways a cheap spell yes, but it's a unique and interesting ability. It does require some skills to use it, because it's not appropriate to use in every situation. It's mainly used to chase down heroes or keep them locked in a spot. The thing is, without these abilities you would lose trademark heroes like PotM, Pudge, Techies, AA, Zeus and so on. Gamebreaker abilities are what makes the games fun, because you can turn them around in your favour.

 

[Admortis]

A better ISP is out of the question, as I've got the best around. Being an Australian, our lovely internet runs on copper, not fiber optics. I have to wait for the government to fix their shit (instigating the fiber optic network) before my delay goes down.

On topic, I both agree and disagree. I don't think spells need to be gamebreaking to be fun, nor would I consider many spells at all gamebreaking. Personally, I adore the shit out of Rammus' powerball, and yet the mechanics couldn't be simpler. Similarly, there isn't a goddamned thing about Zilean that is even remotely complex, but when things synergise, things are called 'broken', but at the same time, I reckon its fun as anything (if not completely unviable in ranked play =P). Forgive me if you're unfamiliar with who they are from LoL.

As fer the lot you mentioned, you raise a valid point. There are plenty of shit-stirring abilities in Dota. I tend to overlook Dota's pros because I find the community to be such a horrendous con.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Right, I read page 1 before leaving for art class, but that's four hours ago so I lost track of what I wanted to reply to there. So this goes only for page 2 (there are only two pages in my layout anyway). Also, sorry Numerion, but I couldn't resist replying.

LoL is way better made than DotA. First of all, I'm not sure if we should call a map without proper keybindings a map.... those bindings are stupid, I can't imagine how is it not fixed yet...

It is not "fixed" in the original map because people have used them for years. I couldn't play Pudge if they changed the hotkeys to QWER, simply because when I pick Pudge, I place my fingers over DRT automatically, and that's how I'm used to playing him. Besides, you can use third-party tools to set your own hotkeys wherever the hell you want them. I like the original hotkeys for the most part, though.

That's not what makes LoL better tho', but the fact that casters in LoL are CASTERS, not QWER then right click champions. All the roles are separated and each role requires a whole new thinking to play it succesfully and well.

Fair enough, but it makes every single champion a carry (from a DotA player's perspective - a carry is a hero that depends on items). You can out-DPS a so-called carry champion late game with a mage (not saying carries are obsolete entirely, but the difference between mage and carry is much smaller than in DotA). You remove the whole transition of early game, mid game and late game. Sure, "carries" in LoL are weak early game (at least supposedly) and improve more drastically throughout the game, but a well farmed mage still makes the difference. Furthermore, as far as I've seen, tanks in LoL cannot endure damage like tanks in DotA, thus pretty much evaporating the purpose of picking specific champions for the game. Just pick whatever the hell you want and make sure you get a healer (that's putting it on edge, but I think I need to in order to emphasise the difference to team drafting in DotA).

The rune system is also revamped and it works much better - in DotA you can't really protect those kind of buffs, a hero with some sort of a movement ability or with high movement speed can easily rush there and steal it. In LoL, you really have to fight from them, in LoL buff control exists.

You protect the runes in DotA with map-control. It is that easy. The sheer ability to rush in and steal it makes it all the more challenging, and that's a good thing in my opinion. Also, he may be able to rush in, but it should be significantly harder to rush out if the enemy team was going for that rune.

Heroes are much better and more funny - even the old ones, that were kinda easy, not that complicated ones.

Heroes are in general much weaker, and so far, I've not noticed many skillshots that actually take skill (I've never missed an arrow with Ashe, for instance - sure, it's bloody hard to miss, but it's called a skillshot, and I've never seen an Ezrael miss his skillshots - my understanding is that Ezrael is the skillshot champion), thus making LoL easier - less challenge is boring. Clockwerk, Pudge, Mirana and AA are all harder to play, but it is also so much more rewarding if you do hit. A good hook can turn the tides of a fight entirely. Whereas in LoL, missing a skillshot can turn the whole fight, hitting it is expected. The conditions are the opposite.

These are just the basics. To be honest, I did not play DotA too much; I consider myself an old WC3 fan, just like my friends, and we all hate DotA because it's boring as hell. I was a little bit affraid before trying LoL out, but hell yea, it definitely worth that try. It's just amazing and a real new generation of AoS style things.

Opinions, I find DotA much more interesting than LoL personally, although I haven't played a whole lot yet. I'm hoping things get a little better once I get into ranked games.

They play a huge role. Dragon and Baron are common cliffs to use as escapes, as well as top left jungle and, middle cliffs. I don't know DotA well enough, so perhaps there are more unique and interesting ways to juke, but you're argument that LoL doesn't have it (or "it doesn't play a big role) is garbage. People juke a lot.

It's not as many possibilities to juke in LoL as there is in DotA. And because of quite similar MS for every hero, as well as an abundance of blink-like spells, it is nigh impossible to make good use of it. Jukeing is an essential part of the gameplay in DotA, in LoL it's just a little bonus that gets you a bit of a head start. Also, I've yet to see anyone using a juke to get back on top of a fight (well, besides me) so far, as there's not a whole lot you can do in those few seconds the enemy are re-orienting. Also, another great use of juking in DotA is for getting your bleeding ass into a location where it'll likely take enough time for the enemy to find you so you can TP out. Which brings me to whining about the lack of a TP scroll in LoL.. the spell that everyone has, recall or whatever, takes 8 seconds to cast, and stops channelling if attacked. It's impossible to use in a heated situation unless you completely brainfucked the enemy, and that requires some serious luck.

I honestly have no idea what the average age of players is for either game. I would assume if you play low levels or low elo, yes, but lvl 30 and especially high elo games are probably at least 16+.

I don't know what "low elo" means, but so far, I'd measure the average LoL player to 10 years old. That's low level, though, so I guess you got a point still. I don't play a single game where the winner doesn't flame the shit out of the enemy upon realizing their victory. I've never seen anything of the likes in DotA. Not in low level SAFELOW league, not in SAFEHIGH, not in LEAGUE, not in In-House Leagues, not on DotA-League, not even in random public games. I've seen it on Garena, though. Which is like the slum.

The three main reasons I never enjoyed DotA are; the lack of intelligence adding to someones magic damage, so mages spells suck latter, except to support; I hated some of the heroes (most notably the girl that shot small versions of herself and the hydralisk); and the large learning curve for gameplay and items.

It's your opinion, and I respect that, but in my opinion, this feature adds to the depth of hero selection and team drafting in DotA. Due to the static damage of most abilities, especially for mages, this makes them exceptionally strong early in the game, and also mid-game if they keep their game up early and, as such, are ahead. Mages mainly transition into support late game, with sheepsticks and the likes, but they still do a major role in disabling enemies and are not rendered useless, they're just not doing the primary DPS any more. As for Vengeful Spirit and Venomancer, two of my favourite heroes, I can't see why you dislike them so much more than other heroes. Sure, VS has targeted stun and targeted ultimate (Swap), and as such isn't quite as challenging to play, but the Howl can easily be called a skillshot when you compare to LoL champions, and it's not easy to make perfect swaps. Vengeful is a fun ganking hero that transitions into good DPS buff later, and also a bit of map awareness due to Howl. Venomancer is my number one favourite hero, his first spell is a relatively easy skillshot, but it is possible to dodge and it can be hard to land on enemies that try to avoid it as much as they can (escpeically multiple enemies). His second spell makes for excellent chase if you use it right, and an excellent anti-chase by kiting. His third spell, the wards, are awesome for pushing lanes, map control, blocking tight passages, stomping enemy pushes and even farming. His ultimate is an AoE/Dot orgasm that can be so incredibly powerful against the right enemy, while it is also fairly easy to counter with Pipe of Insight (but it's still useful simply because it does trigger that Pipe which lets other spells damage to their full potential). Venomancer stays strong in all phases of the game, and as such could easily be compared to a LoL hero. You can play him as a mage of sorts, or you can play him as support, or the usual route as a pusher. He also does a decent half-carry.

all that blah blah blah you said about Dota being better than LoL is your opinion...
Recall ability on LoL is really good(IMO), i played Dota one time and it was sooooooooooooo boring to walk all the way back to the base....
plus in case you didn't knew...LoL is focused on hero fights, that's the reason it doesn't have op creeps like Dota...

You ever heard of a TP Scroll? You don't walk back to base in DotA just because you don't have recall. Besides, due to the TP Scroll having a cooldown, and being able to go both back to base, to a different lane (if you have the towers) or from base and forward, it's much more versatile, yet challenging to use, than recall. Oh, and it has 3 seconds casting time instead of 8 seconds. On Twisted Treeline, you only really need Recall if you've pushed all the way into enemy territory, as walking back from lane takes less than 8 seconds.

-First and foremost, a lack of denies puts greater emphasis on ganks, because it becomes the surefire way to deny your enemy of XP and gold. Fully aware that ganks occur in dota, perhaps just more common in LoL.

I don't know about ranked games, but ganging is far less common in LoL as far as I've seen. Besides, ganging doesn't really hurt the victim enough (due to no loss of gold) and doesn't benefit the gangers as much (because the rewards for killing are fairly cheap compared to what you can earn by farming) as it needs to in order to really compete with DotA. A gang in DotA is devastating to the unprepared carry, who risk to lose up to 2K gold (which is the equivalent to somewhere around 4-5K gold in LoL) if he's farming for a high tier item. Ganging also properly rewards the ganging heroes, and by using TP Scrolls, the heroes can return to their lanes immediately (unless they choose to push the tower, which can be risky due to the other team defending with TP Scrolls) and thus not lose much XP and farm from leaving their lane. As far as denying goes, it's more than preventing the enemy from earning XP and gold. It's also about forcing the enemy into a position where he either has to stay back and not earn XP and gold as much as he'd like to or risk getting ganged because he has to leave his tower. It also makes you safer from gangs by controlling the creep waves to fight outside your tower and not the enemies tower.

-Juking is just as possible, albeit in fewer locations. Personally, I prefer being able to secure a kill which I deserve due to an enemy being absurdly overextended, but if you like escaping due to having tango's and higher MS, coolbeans. Personally, I think War3's line of sight system is the worst thing ever, because 1 tree blocking a 160 degree view makes so much sense.

It makes sense to have less opportunity to escape in LoL seeing as dying doesn't really hurt you unless it's late game and you need every man to defend base. As I explained earlier, dying is much more damaging to you and your team in DotA, and thus it makes sense that there are ways to escape for the skilled player. This also results in a lot of new players crying about luckers and cheaters. Although I'll admit that the line of sight system makes little sense, it does act a lot of depth to the gameplay, more so than bushes do in LoL (which I frankly believe are quite annoying, there's invisibility runes around every corner - hiding in fog is easier to counter than hiding in bush).

-Mages are just as balanced as physicals. I can't imagine this point was made with sufficient experience on the matter.

yes, they sure are as balanced as carries, but that's exactly the problem. Physical carries should be stronger late, while mages should be stronger early. That's how we're used to it being and that's how we like it. It's all opinion of course.

-Champion sex and ability graphics are irrelevant. Their effects are important. I like that LoL has more unique spells than 'The single target single duration left click stun'. You enjoy your Leoric stun, now.

There is too much spectacular effects and too little descriptive effects. Most of the time, I have no idea who's doing what because there's so much flashing and burning in a 5v5 in LoL. Whereas DotA is clean and undisturbed - it still has enough effects in my opinion.

-Untrue, but there is a blink summoner spell (which anybody can use, for reference). Which is being removed in an upcoming patch.

There are 3 heroes (Anti-mage, Akasha and Mirana) with blink and 11 pseudo blinks (Clock, Phoenix, Magnataur, Crixalis, Morph, Rikimaru, Warden, Slark, Void, Puck, Storm) in DotA (I might be inaccurate, just pulling this out of my arse, but it's coming from 7 years of experience, so I guess it counts for something).. out of 104 heroes. Oh, and I guess you could call Weaver's ultimate a blink, but as it targets 5 seconds back in time, it's more the return of HP and Mana than the blink itself that allows you to escape - besides, you usually use it to get back in the fight with full HP and Mana rather than escaping.

-If the XP, Gold and outnumbering your opponents for a time aren't big enough advantages, you're a bit of a twit, aren't you?

Not when considering how much damage the towers deal while protected by turtling allies. It's harder to make advantage of a gang into a push in LoL than in DotA. But yeah, bit of nitpicking. Besides, that farm must've been pretty crucial if he went far enough to risk getting ganged to get it. And considering he keeps everything he farmed upon dying, his farming was not in vain. Gang a farmer in DotA nad his farm is gone unless he managed to buy what he needed with a carrier/from base.

-No Roshan. But there is a Baron, a Dragon, two lizards and two golems. All of which can be (and frequently are) stolen, and all of which are always warded in high end games. And same as dota, if you've got bad map awareness, you're getting 3v1 ganked. Good try, though.

I've only killed Baron once, and I didn't even notice the benefit than (besides 200 gold or so for the entire team), so I won't comment on him, but Dragon spawns fairly often and is fairly easy to kill, and yields 190 gold for the entire team - fair enough, I understand why you want to ward him, but comparing it to Roshan is quite a far-fetch. The blue buff from golem is much more useful than killing Dragon, at least to a caster, and the red buff equally useful for a melee assassin. They are incredibly easy to kill, and even if you do ward them, you won't be able to get there before the golem/lizard is killed. Sure, you'll attempt a gang on the buff holder, but as you're leaving lanes, the allies of the buff holder will realize what's going on and manage to protect him, or counter-gang. In that sense, it's similar to Roshan, but it's not as huge an advantage as killing Roshan is. Having a carry with two lives is amazingly advantageous in a push, seeing as a carry can take on the remainder of the enemy team easily upon revival while his team is dead, and then proceed to push down rax in at least one lane should he perform a genocide. Also, last note, you need an exceptional amount of wards in LoL to compare your map awareness to that of a well-warding DotA team (who are limited to four wards at all times, by the way - alternatively, you can stack up and be without map awareness for one period and have greater map awareness later).

-True. Though they're adding an item with the same effect next (or in a coming) patch, though it will be a proper item, and not a consumable.

That won't be the same, an item with an active hiding the entire team? So once you've bought it, you'll always have it whenever CD is down. Well, we'll see how it works out, but that seems a tad imba even for a support item, I hope it is a weak item otherwise, but looking at LoL, there's hardly any items that are weak but necessary (like TP Scrolls, Dust and Smoke in DotA).

-Less walking, more action. I like that, feel free to not like that.

It's the same amount of walking in both games, if not less walking in DotA. You can TP both ways, although with CD, in DotA, and the casting time is much shorter and harder to interrupt. Moreover, you don't need to put off a slot in your inventory to keep a scroll (or purchase Boots of Travel, at the expense of lacking AS, Mana or Phase - which are all useful). Also, I reckon consumables as a whole was a different item set in the LoL Beta, or maybe that was HoN.. just food for thought.

-There are more stats in League of Legends, so it is more reasonable for there to be more stats on more items. The question is; what two or more stats do YOU need in this SPECIFIC situation? Items are sometimes less unique, but fill a better niche role, which I like. Tanking, I never get the same build, because enemy teams always have different damage types and ratios of magic to physical.

This is one of the things I do like in LoL - that tanking is more versatile. In DotA, you pretty much have no choice but to get Heart of Terrasque for the HP and Regen, Vanguard for more of that plus physical damage reduction and/or Hood of Defiance (Pipe of Insight) for magical damage reduction. Then there's Assault Cuirass for armour and potentially Blade Mail for damage return (magical and physical, ranged as well as melee, but activated). Your sixth item (if you use all of the above) will be some kind of boots depending on your hero. Then again, this is enough, and covers all aspects of tanking, there's no real need for more, but the fact that there is more options make it a little more interesting to tank, too bad tanks don't really last long in LoL.

I'm going to try Dota 2, for sure. But chances are, the community (which tends to be more braise, in my experience) and the copy+paste of previous, bad mechanics (no differentiation between spells, the str/agi/int system) will probably lead me back to LoL.

Also, enjoy your qwop hands =)

Elaborate on bad mechanics? Or are you just saying again that you want all types of heroes to carry? In whcih case, I only ahve to say that it's not a bad mechanic, it's just a mechanic you and some others don't like. Just as I don't like LoL's take on the same mechanics.

QWOP hands? That's a term I'm unfamiliar with, if you're referring to hotkeys QWOP opposed to QWER, then I have to say it's still preference, though I don't think there's any hotkeys that extreme in DotA, and if there were, there's enough third-party tools to fix that.

On the topic of juking, I'm extremely biased due to my delay. I consistantly get 250 ms, up to 800, and it sounds silly, but I find juking to be extremely OVERPOWERED when I've got that kind of delay, because it is physically impossible for me to rectify my mistakes in following as people with better internet might.

I just want to say you can't judge a game by your experience if your experience is not how it is meant to be experienced. It's like judging the colours of a painting with no colour vision. Though I do see your frustration with it. I think 250 ms is quite annoying in any game, and I wouldn't kill anything in DotA nor LoL with such a huge delay, seeing as I'm used to 5-20MS in DotA, and 40-80MS in LoL.

On the subject of rupture, well...
In terms of lose/lose situations, it is hard to go past. Don't run, and you're 'overextended'. Run and take an absurdly high amount of damage. I'm against rupture like spells, which have multiple functions but require absolutely no skill to use. A spell with rupture's effect, but only applied with a skillshot? I'd get on board with that.

Rupture is a disable where you can still fight, or choose to take damage while trying to run out. That's how I see it anyway, it's sad that most players in public DotA use Rupture in combination with Force Staff (which literally pushes you in one direction, thus hurting you for moving). It's better for a tank to be ruptured than stunned, because a tank can in most cases endure the damage, and as such run away (though nobody would use Rupture on a tank anyway, unless the tank is the only thing left to fight). But if you compare it to a stun, and consider that it's an ultimate, it's not overpowered the slightest. I love Rupture and similar abilities (KotL's Mana Leak, for instance, is quite similar).

There, I'm done. I just want to add a last remark that I'm generally satisfied with playing League of Legends at the moment, there are a few things I dislike when I compare it to DotA, but it's not meant to be DotA. I'm glad it's not entirely the same, I only wish it was a bit higher paced, and more skill-demanding, but then again, as soon as DOTA2 is released, I'll have my high paced, competitive skill fest in that, and a relaxed and funny game to play with friends of different skill level in LoL. They are two different worlds of the same basis, and it's a good thing they're different, because we already have DotA, and soon DOTA2, we don't need a copy, we need more variation. Although I did enjoy HoN when I played the BETA simply for the graphics and new heroes, it's too much of the same, and lately, it seems to go in the direction of being a blend of LoL and DOTA, and by the player bases, I think it's clear where that's going. :/

Pardon the wall of text, it's kind of a habit.

 

[Gilles]

Which brings me to whining about the lack of a TP scroll in LoL.. the spell that everyone has, recall or whatever, takes 8 seconds to cast, and stops channelling if attacked. It's impossible to use in a heated situation unless you completely brainfucked the enemy, and that requires some serious luck.

I like the cast time just fine, and I like that you can't recall while being attacked. Also there is a summoner spell "Teleport" that has a short cast time, and cannot be interrupted that allows you to tp to any allied minion or turret (not Champions).

I don't know what "low elo" means, but so far, I'd measure the average LoL player to 10 years old. That's low level, though, so I guess you got a point still. I don't play a single game where the winner doesn't flame the shit out of the enemy upon realizing their victory.

Elo is basically your rank in ranked games. It tells people how good you are, and matches you with people from the same bracket.

It's your opinion, and I respect that, but in my opinion, this feature adds to the depth of hero selection and team drafting in DotA. Due to the static damage of most abilities, especially for mages, this makes them exceptionally strong early in the game, and also mid-game if they keep their game up early and, as such, are ahead. Mages mainly transition into support late game, with sheepsticks and the likes, but they still do a major role in disabling enemies and are not rendered useless, they're just not doing the primary DPS any more.

That use of mages works, but I think it's really lame. I like games that have stats that raise magic damage. Simply opinion.

Also I should have noted that I don't even remember the skills the VS and Hydra had, I just hated that they used a Hydralisk model in the game, and I hated that VS shot herself. LoL has yet to make a hero I despise, which is actually impressive.

I don't know about ranked games, but ganging is far less common in LoL as far as I've seen. Besides, ganging doesn't really hurt the victim enough (due to no loss of gold)

Do you play with jungles on your team? Their duty is to gank the other lanes in order to gain the advantage. Also getting ganked hurts enough that you don't want it to happen. If one team ganked a couple extra times early, no, the game isn't over, but if you got ganked 4 or 5 times bottom, you've almost lost the game for your team, especially if the other teams carry got the kills.

(which I frankly believe are quite annoying, there's invisibility runes around every corner - hiding in fog is easier to counter than hiding in bush).

Wards, Clairvoyance, and quite a few Champions spells are good ways to check bushes. I rarely walk into a bush and get killed, I know where the other team is, and if I don't, I don't go into bushes they could be in.

I've only killed Baron once, and I didn't even notice the benefit than (besides 200 gold or so for the entire team), so I won't comment on him

He gives a really strong buff. If the other team initiates you outside their base, you should own them. Usually the team that kills baron needs to get a good push going so as not to waste the buff since the other team will simply defend their turrets at that point.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

I tend to play the jungle myself (Warwick), and I gang all I can manage, but due to the close position of towers, and everyone having flash (and often additional blink-ish abilities), it's really hard to pull off a good gang. In DotA, you either have enough stun, runes to stage a proper surprise gang (not to mention smoke of deceit) or the MS and HP to chase past the tower. You can forget chasing anything past a tower in LoL, because those things kill you in four hits.

As for bushes, the thing that annoys me the most is that bot and top lanes have these huge bushes along the side in which every ranged hero hides in at all times, they can hit creeps from there, be out of sight, and because they went in first, it's not really safe to go in to keep them under surveillance. Purchasing wards to keep track of those bushes as well as the bush on the entrance from river is too expensive and seems really redundant because it usually doesn't happen anything. It's just annoying to always lane versus Lv6+ Rikimaru with range, nukes and whatnot. And on Twisted Treeline you need like 10 wards just to keep track of the jungle between top and bottom. >_>

 

[Gilles]

I tend to play the jungle myself (Warwick), and I gang all I can manage, but due to the close position of towers, and everyone having flash (and often additional blink-ish abilities), it's really hard to pull off a good gang. In DotA, you either have enough stun, runes to stage a proper surprise gang (not to mention smoke of deceit) or the MS and HP to chase past the tower. You can forget chasing anything past a tower in LoL, because those things kill you in four hits.

Flash is annoying, but your team should let their jungle know if anyone has used up their flash so you can come gank, and even with it, you can still kill if they pushed too far.

The bushes are annoying, but you could argue it adds skill to laning. I personally don't mind them, and I usually am support and take CV so they can't hide.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Not so much skill as forcing you to stay defensive at all times unless you are in control of the bush. But oh well, it's another thing to get used to, I guess.