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I need help to create a Dalaran Army(Techtree) for my campaign,Tides of War,but I don't want to use the regular models for the buidings and units of the humans... I want a new army, like a mix of Humans and High Elves...
so i need some ideas about units and building
I think you should find an alternative for the Archer. If this takes place back in the Second War, Dalaran was still a human kingdom, with a majority of humans. Members from other races were mainly there as scholars wanting to learn the ways of the Arcane.
I think you should find an alternative for the Archer. If this takes place back in the Second War, Dalaran was still a human kingdom, with a majority of humans. Members from other races were mainly there as scholars wanting to learn the ways of the Arcane.
thanks for the help, but about the archer, let's say that the elf will be the silver covenant, lead by Vereesa Windrunner, and Vereesa are part of the Allience and stay in dalaran with jaina
The Lieutenant and Knight don't really fit how about a battlemage who is weaker than your standar melee unit but has magic abilities that can enhance him.
For example: Name: Battlemage Hit Points: 500 Mana: 200 Armour: Heavy 0 (Upgradeable) Damage: 14 - 17 (Upgradeable) Abilities: Magic Strike (researchable) - Adds 15 bonus damage to attack costs 8 mana auto cast. Imbued Armour (researchable) - Adds 6 bonus armour. Lasts 30 seconds costs 50 mana. Foresight (researchable) - Gives a 20% chance to dodge an attack. 10 mana autocast.
Aw cool. I'm growing to love these topics. And to think I almost forgot about it. Bejabbers.
Now, the first and foremost, you must tell us When exactly this is all taking place. Are you designing the original "pre/early-Wc3" Dalaran, "Dalaran the Bright and Proud", with caged summons and super-mages and the like? Or are you designing a sort of "post-Wc3/into-WoW" Dalaran, "Dalaran the Reborn", with flying buildings and super-angry-mages and the like? That's crucial.
That being said, I prefer the former, and I was actually (total coincidence here) theorycrafting a quirky little take on a Dalaran faction that I thought would be neat to have. However, I've already got enough on my plate, and Dalaran just doesn't work for me. Would love to see some of this come to fruition. Let me know what you like.
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The Magical Alliance
THEME
So to me, the city of Dalaran was this great bright shining star of arcane achievement. The Violet Citadel, the Conclave of Mages, the great Guilds, the noble Houses, the Throne of Arcana, the great Magisterium, the Synod of Savants... I just made all those up. It's a feeling, man.
Before Archimonde annihilated it (with MAGIC *jazz hands*), it stood as this Great and Powerful Trixie capital of all Magic-Dom; the throbbing heart of the arcane, as well as the pulsing mind. Anyone with an inkling of magic-ness would go there to follow there dreams & change the world.
And in fact, some of the most game/world-changing individuals came from these esteemed ranks; think of the obvious, like Jaina and Antonidas, but don't forget about pre-Undead Kel'thuzad!
In the campaign, several elements were present that I think should be incorporated into any good Dalaran faction (which I'll go into). But remember, MAGIC. I mean 'pride'. Above all, this was a city of men, playing god. Tampering with forces beyond mortal ken can (lol) really warp the fabric of space and time (remember, Arcane magic, not Shamanistic or Divine; that's the stuff that drew the Burning Legion in the first place!)
ROLE
As you might expect, the city of Dalaran, when whipped into a fighting force, would yield the greatest in terms of raw magical power and ranged support. However, they would surely have a series of warriors (if nothing but library guards and rent-a-cops ) to hide behind. Excellent manipulation and strategy would be the calling card of Dalaran, as well as mind-blowing tactical prowess and arcane might. This would be balanced with general fragility of it's units, lacking in healing (no Divine or Shamanistic magic) & other necessities of war.
HEROES
Awright, you pretty much have the gamut here. Some ideas I think are really pertinent (model or not!):
I - (HU) (Archmage remake)
I - (BE) (Blood Mage remake)
I - (~UD) (non-Orc pseudo-Lich remake)
I/S - (HE) Warmage
I -? (HE) Illusionist
A/I - (BE/HE) Arcane Archer
I/S - (GN) Mechmage/Mekimage/Magitek
I/S - (HU) Eldritch Knight
I - (HE) Astromancer
-
Most of which are Intelligence, no duh. However, try and break it up.
So a solid resource for any faction (which are derivations of existing factions) is to Remake existing heroes, or "Hero-ize" existing units. Try and be creative; look at my works as an example of what I mean (Shadow Hunter -> Medicine Mon... Witch Doctor -> Headshrinker... etc). Thus you can look at an Archmage, Blood Mage, and Lich remakes.
the Lich is unique and I think really cool; think "kel'thuzad, before/during the Lich King's seduction-al mind-whispers. Basically a really powerful mage that just begins to tap into the dark side of magic (death & stuff), much like how the TFT Blood Mage begins tapping into the more fiery fel magic. His ultimate would have to be along the lines of a Phylactery; sealing away a part of his soul so he can't truly die. And/or, ascending partially to Lich-hood and becoming Undead but with super-duper necro-spells. Remember, in Wc3 all "Liches" are actually originally Orc Warlocks/Necrolytes, so the book is open when it comes to twisted human or elven mages
Also the Illusionist (too little time to Link; just do a Search for posts by me with the word "illusionist"), as I referenced in the topic discussing the next mini-modelling contest, would be an amazing hero-version of the existing Elven Sorceress.
Warmage, to be honest... yeah, you just need it. Samwise is the heart of Wc3 art style, and for someone who took Samwise art as inspiration and just
... That, and it's a excellently-made, little-used, and good High Elf character... That, and it fills a valuable role (that of a sort of "melee in-your-face warrior, but with mage-y powers"). Sword Dance, Magic Missile, magical shouts, Arcane something-or-other...
Yeah. Warmage.
The rest I just made up a bit. I think an Arcane Archer has a lot of potential (do some searches into D&D for ability ideas), especially since the Wc3 Ranger is unused (except Mc! made a much better model for it, over at Wc3C.net), and don't forget the possibility of Gnomes! (or do, since they are silly).
UNITS
This is the bulk of the things. I'm running out of time, so I'll be brief (HA). The most important thing is, I don't CARE that you are making a race of magic-users from the magic-capital of a magical world, MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC. If your race (which, remember, must have 12 units (no more, no less)) has more than, I'd say, 1/2 or 1/3 of them as pure Casters (weak units with Magic attack & Caster upgrades), it will be DUMB. Also boring and difficult. People will get tired of playing with humans & elves waving wands & staffs.
Instead, realize the richly diverse possibilities of Dalaran; not only would they have people to guard the mages, but people to sell the mages stuff (for potions, spells & the like), people to kill the mages (remember those rival Houses and intricate political rivalries), and best of all, BEASTIES. That's right, remember that Undead mission, storming Dalaran? You were always breaking these cages full of crazy and arcane and mysterious creatures, both summoned and created, both spawned and servile. That's my favorite part. But I'll get to that.
This is the "bulk" of the army, in the sense that it's what you'd expect a Dalaran army to be filled with. Note: I just googled "Thesaurus for Magician" and wrote down everything that wasn't already in Wc3 that sounded cool. Do more research. This is WAAAAY too many for any race; you may end up using just 4-5 of them. Remember mounted units, too. Perfect race to have a unique "mounted caster" and a unique "siege caster".
Magical Support
Magical Support
- Spellsword (guard)
- "Merchant" (salesman of spell components?)
- "Mageslayer" (special hired assassin of rival Houses)
-
Magical Constructs
- Arcane Construct
- "Ascended Mage" (ARCHON!)
-
Like I said, this will be the bulk of the non-caster non-beast army. Think "Spellswords" (great name, just basically a Footman and a Spell Breaker probably), or "Mageslayers", or "Merchants" (better name, definitely...).
Then remember all the cool stuff you can animate with magic... I think AndrewOverload519's excellent Blood Elven "Arcane Guardian" makes loads of sense for a race like this (animated magical armor, very sturdy), as well as, my favorite thing in the world ever, "Protoss Archon remakes"! What better place but in a Magical Alliance to incorporate a sort of extra-dimensional, ascended mage unit, who has transcended the bounds of mortality, ethicality, and stuff to become the embodiement of logical magical destruction. Think (of course) Archons, mixed with Dr. Manhattan (google).
Also magical floating eyes.
My favorite part. Not gonna retype the above, but take a look at all the basic mythological creatures (esp. Greek & such) that Blizzard didn't use yet; Beholders, Unicorns, Pegasi, Cyclops, Sphinx (egyptian), MANTICORES (necessary), etc. Especially for use as mounted units (Pegasi-riding warriors, anyone? (google search that, along with "Heart of Storms", for heart-stopping (lol) custom models). Or just plain old Unicorn as a sort of "creature-mage" (thank you, Daelin of RotHE fame).
Manticores.
These creatures can be anything; ranged support, meat shield-melee, tankers, DPS, flyers, mounted, siege, scouts (Changeling/Doppelganger), even "T3 Ownage Device" (beholder, anyone?)
Manticores. Find someone to make a model and you are golden.
BUILDINGS & OTHERS
I think, even if you're doing "pre-Wc3" Dalaran, you should have Flying buildings somewhere. Maybe it's an upgrade that gives all buildings a bit of "psuedo-Flying" in the form of Evasion; maybe it's an actual Flying Tower you can construct at T3, making Siege really difficult for enemies. Maybe it's actually a unit (flying mechanical building).
Magic Items.
Think about Magical Shields (ala Mana Shield ala Protoss Shields) on all buildings, providing armor which must be hacked through before actually damaging the building itself... Think about requiring buildings to be constructed within a certain 'magical empowerment aura' (ala Protoss Pylons)... Think about all/most building being able to defend themselves, or fly, or whatever...
Stuff like that.
//Warning: To do this right would require much in the way of custom artwork. I always say "ideas first, art later", but that's not always feasible. Do what you can.
===
So yeah. That took a lot longer than I would've hoped... But I hope you can get some solid ideas from it. Let me know, and enjoy! I enjoyed writing it.
A Tutorial You Should Memorize
I first want to make sure to link you to this, MCV's Design Guide for a Fifth Race, over at the excellent Wc3C.net. This has been, in my opinion, the hallmark of modders in this line of work (like me) for several years. It's a bit outdated, to be fair; me and a few other race-modders have been thinking about updating it with more & better information & examples. However, it still stands pretty solid on it's own. I say 'read this' not only because it will help, but because I used some of that in my above rant.
Heroes, Part II
When it comes to heroes, I didn't say this, but just try and make sure you have some balance. In any race, you are gonna need a good range of Roles fulfilled (warrior-assassin-magician; tank, damage-dealing, ranged support, buffing support, etc). Seems like a 'no-duh'... But believe me if I haven't seen "mage-races" before with 3-4 weak-caster INT heroes. :< It gets boring.
Even in the "mage" class there's some diversity. Like I pointed out with the Warmage (STR-mage) or the Arcane Archer/Ranger (AGI-mage), or a potential "Mageslayer" hero (not unit) (AGI-mage). So I'd try and grab at least 2 solid "INT-mage" characters, then be creative with Roles unfulfilled with the others.
*Also, even if you have 2 generic "INT-mage" heroes, doesn't mean they should be identical. Think of the Death Knight, Crypt Lord & Dreadlord... Three Undead STR heroes, but with entirely different Roles! (roughly "unit-support", "tank-tank-tank", and "ranged assault / manipulation", respectively). Or even better, the Blood Mage and the Archmage (even both have 'mage' in the name, so couldn't be more similar? Wrong).
Try and come up with different kinds of mages.
Tier 3 Ownage Device, Part II
Here's where things get difficult & argumentative.
If you read the tutorial I linked above, a principle of race-design MCV calls for is the "Tier 3 Ownage Device"; basically the biggest, baddest, coolest thing that a faction can train/construct, built only at T3 and inhabitating it's own building (usually). Things like the Gryphon Rider, the Tauren, the Frost Wyrm, and the Chimaera. The "epitome" of each faction, the greatest & best (also usually "Heavy Flying Ranged Support" (and, for two of them, "Anti-Structure Support"))
Now, this isn't to say (he doesn't) that there aren't any other Units trained at T3; in fact, only the Orcs & Night Elves have this (Tauren/Chimaera). Humans and Undead have 3 (Knight, Gryphon Rider, Siege Engine // Abomination, Frost Wyrm, Destroyer). What this says about the 4 main factions, I'll let you decide.
However, there's always some end-game, late-tier building & unit. That's the point.
So what should it be?
The problem is, there are too many good ideas. In My Opinion, it boils down to 2 types, but even in there it gets crazy.
1: T3 Super-Mage
This could be everything from just a really powerful Spellcaster unit, to a potent "spellcaster/warrior" hybrid, to (my personal favorite) the "Transcendent Mage-Entity" concept previously discussed (again, the best they have is a magical dude so magical, he magically over-magicked himself into a magical ball of magic. Magic). It's like a (non-Wc3, think D&D) Lich-concept; a mage so obsessed with learning & magic, he forfeited life & mortality in the pursuit of endless knowledge, becoming a super-powerful entity of magic.
(I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm beating that concept in... I just really really really like it. Perhaps too much. This doesn't mean you should have it, too. I just love it. )
2: T3 Uber-Creature
The creature-angle is a time-honored tradition in Wc3 (3 of the 4 "T3 ownage Devices" involve big creatures). That, coupled with what I've already described as your "this makes this race awexome" aspect, gives this an edge in the debate.
But what creature?
Well, you could go on one hand with the idea of "the greatest creature possible, enslaved by mages", which, in my (entirely subjective) opinion would be DRAGONS. Dragons are like, the pinnacle, the height, the zenith, apex and climax of all Fantasy. Heck, need I go further than the thing that started most Fantasy gaming, "Dungeons and Dragons"? While in Wc3 Dragons are a little... eh (in the lore, they are cool; in the game, they are ... cool?), "dragons" (dead or alive) are already the "T3OD" of 2 out of 4 races. So a massively powerful "Enslaved Dragon" is a great idea.
Some other "apex predators" of the magical-beastie world would probably be Sphinxes (Sphinxi?) and Manticores. Yep, I brought that up again. Sphinxes, with their powerful leonine bodies, human-like head & intelligence, possible wings, fatal riddles, and other egyptian-esque powers fit well. Magic: the Gathering has ensconced Sphinxes as their ideal "top creature" for the color of Blue (associated with magic, mana, manipulation, etc) So no-duh, again.
Manticores... I dunno whats up with me, I just read about them recently and thought they were really cool, with lots of utility. Again, lion-like body, human-like head (except for ROWS OF RAZOR-SHARP TEETH), wings (flying? leaping? ooh), and scorpion tail (except for SHOOTING TONS OF SPINES), and creepy talking... Man. Lion roar, shooting spines at air units while pounding ground units, Leaping long distances...
Oh yeah, and Beholders. Almost forgot about them. Be really hard to enthrall, but that's another "hallmark" D&D creature of magick. And has a really good model, too (in THW).
The other angle I think could work really well is a being "of" magic. Basically, if magic is the ability to accomplish things and be powerful, then...
Blah, no more time for build-up. I'm talking about Genies.
Yeah, genies. Or "Djinn(i)". Just like in Aladdin (you *have* seen Aladdin, right?), basically an entity that has "phenomenal cosmic powers", with incredibly intricate and restrictive limitations; basically that of being trapped in a lamp or whatever, and having to grant only 3 wishes of the individual who (temporarily) frees them.
Not really sure, to be honest, what to make of that. A "wish" or "Miracle" spell, while amazing & useful in a D&D setting, really doesn't translate well into Wc3. At least not in any way that is balanced. Would really make more sense as a hero, in that case. But a big floating entity of pure magic (there we go again... ), rippling with power but bound by law/constraints/magic (haha), makes a lot of sense.
Also, I'm speaking as one who is poisoned by seeing a really good model... Go PM DonDustin for his excellent "Djinn" model. I believe it got a DC before he pulled it.
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