Neatherland Conflict v0.34a

[Chuchurute]

i hate these things, everybody that makes an AoS makes an name similar to dota like gota, gotas, COTA, etc...but him have used an outpost this is a different thing

 

[Hashinshin]

I can't get a person to join this with that name :-/

Can you change it to something different ? Crusade of the not-ancients ?

 

[Zacharias]

I can't get a person to join this with that name :-/

Can you change it to something different ? Crusade of the not-ancients ?

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/f202/cota-crusade-ancients-104947/

Thx for comments, name will be changed soon.

 

[Hashinshin]

Just keep working away. Get all heroes innate abilities. I do like how each hero's abilities are strong rather than having 1 great, 1 meh, and 1 useless ability with either underpowered or overpowered ultimate backing you up. (in other maps, your map is not like this.)

The items work good too, the upgrades aren't significant and won't impact the game and ruin it like they do others (+200 damage with +150% attack speed insta-gib maps = bleck...)

I did post in your thread on this map, I think the marine is blatantly overpowered, I think the archer is either OK or not OK depending on if you're gonna raise everyone else's damage to meet hers. I will repeat, the marine is just wayyyy over the top. His damage through summons and and abilities trumps everyone.

I had an ally with the drain life spell hero (can't remember it's name for the life of me) but it was ... pretty much not worth casting. His hero has a whole was kinda eh. The life-chain spell thingy was neat for countering their targeting on one of us but his drain life just didn't seem to actually do anything.

Battlemage is a favorite of mine already, I think his innate ability could go down maybe 20% mana though as he spends all his mana just sustaining his life pool under fire from a ranged caster. He has a speed which is good, but he has no slows or stuns to actually finish off heroes. His speed is kinda like a slow but it doesn't keep them in range of your team or away from getting to their tower. I understand his utility is group effort but I'm just throwing that out there.

I'll go back on the damage issue, my battlemage really didn't have the tools to dish back enough damage to drive the archer away. I pretty much was just whacking creeps while healing myself and hoping the archer wasn't running in for the net kill (if she did I ran away obviously.) If I ran up to her to fight she just tanked me and shot at me. I think all melee user's damage could be buffed up a bit to compete with range.

One last thought: Make creeps spawn 20-40% faster instead of giving more EXP. It felt like the time between waves was a little too much and you were often waiting outside towers for awhile waiting for your next wave.

Outside those critiques I love how your map feels more open as if theres an actual battle going on instead of just lanes. Reminds me of AotZ which is a GREAT map too. If you're gonna work on the creeps any open up more "lanes" or fight areas, the outposts idea is great. It'd be especially great if you could kinda organize your creeps to for awhile attack certain areas.

 

[Joe-black-5]

i hate these things, everybody that makes an AoS makes an name similar to dota like gota, gotas, COTA, etc...but him have used an outpost this is a different thing

Gotas was originaly named Goths but every one thought that it have a relation with devil worshippers so the name was changed into Gotas

 

[RunBa]

OK, I'll Spam here...
Stop Flaming this guy... Can't you see that he is trying to do something...
Your advices are not very helpfull can't you see
Fuck DotA for God's sake... Forget it... It's Nothing but Shit... And CotA? What about the name? It's ok... Better then DotA.
Zach, Good Luck...

 

[nargaque]

I saw SMotA in the keywords for this so I decided to check it out.

This map isn't bad considering the version number. The terrain is well done (even though it's not finished yet) and the gameplay seems fluid, but I'm not so sure on hero design. I won't comment on inter-hero balance so much, because that's what betas are for, but I will say that some abilities themselves are just worth so much more than others. For example, Battlemage's Scroll of Haste is amazing at level 1, but at level 5 it's not much more useful than it was at level 3 or 4. What use is +120% speed when +100% or +80% already increases you to max? (The tooltip is messed up too; it says +140/160/180/200/220%, but it should be +40/60/80/100/120%.)

Another example is the Firemage. Firewave deals so much less damage than Firebolt, despite that they have the same mana cost, Firebolt has half the cooldown, and Firebolt stuns. Firewave does deal area damage, but its damage itself is very low (100/150/200/250/300) compared to Firebolt (350/425/500/575/650). At level 1, Firebolt will take out about half the hp of most heroes even factoring in spell resistance; 2 hits will kill.

I'm not sure if this is intended or not, but it is possible to just repick once to a different hero no matter your situation.

A miscellaneous list of other issues:
-the Huntress's Trap of Exhaustion is supposed to slow "nearby enemy units" but actually slows all units, including allies and yourself
-Rock Golem's summon tooltip is the same at different levels; make sure it matches the learn tooltip and real data
-Battlemage has Paladin's tooltip description; its Holy Light innate has no hotkey
-Mummy's Sand Vortex trigger doesn't actually deal damage - it just reduces hp, so it doesn't give the kill to anyone if it "kills" an enemy
-according to Firearcher's Constrict learn tooltip, the duration is 2/2/3/4/5 seconds; are level 1 and 2 really the same or did you do use the default integer rounding?
-quite a few typos; also a lot of words combinedtogether like that
-channeling abilities are not specified, e.g. Holy Scroll, Fire Rain, etc.
-the qwer hotkey system is not present on some abilities, double check to see that this is consistent
-some of the corridors in the middle forest lane are too narrow - 4 ranged creeps blocked the passage for me

Regarding the name, I think the problem is not that it has -ota, but the C makes it somewhat weird to say.

 

[Zacharias]

thanks nargaque (know your map SMotA well, its not bad at all)

-Scroll of haste will be fixed/reduced.
-Firemage´s Firewave is an area-spell, i considered to decrease its damage comparing to a single target spell as firebolt is. But will balance that, maybe firebolt is to strong...
- the combinedtogether issue is just resulting from my nativ language, german - anyway, i will try to fix them
- which creeps do block the lane? tested them well, seems to work for me...

but thanks for all your information

 

[Hashinshin]

Quick question, is every hero going to get an innate ability eventually ? I'm hoping yes, more abilities is better.

 

[Zacharias]

Quick question, is every hero going to get an innate ability eventually ? I'm hoping yes, more abilities is better.

Its not planned, no. But i´m working on a possibility to gain one of several extra-abilities, e.g. throught a recipe.

Actually there are many ideas i want to implement, but its not possible now, since i´m not working 24h a day This map is something like a skeletal structure for my ideas.

~2 days and it will be updated, hopefully.

 

[Hashinshin]

The paladin's hammer ability starts off rather cool (0 mana cost, 5 CD, but rather hard to use) but at level 2+ it starts getting an obscene mana cost.

The tooltip says 0 mana so I can assume a 150 mana cost is just a bug.

 

[TrOiA]

nice map man and good work.

10/10 & Good xD

 

[Slasher]

Battlemages attack move hotkey stacks with another and this map is too similar with dota. So why should I play this or anyone else cause there is already better dota map?

 

[Zacharias]

Battlemages attack move hotkey stacks with another and this map is too similar with dota. So why should I play this or anyone else cause there is already better dota map?

Thx, will reconsider the 'A' hotkey, anyway i dont think that anyone uses an hotkey for 'Attack' ^^

Why should you play an other AoS as DotA? Because DotA is not perfect, e.g. its item-recipes where cruel to all players, you will have to learn them by heart if you want to be good. Other reasons? See the first post....

 

[Evan1993]

Although I didn't play this for long because I got bored, a few things stuck me about this map.

The hero I picked seemed bland to me, none of his skills worked together or fit his character and he had standard melee spells.

A hero that has two auto-cast spells and a passive makes a very boring hero to play. For games, such as AoS's were you only control you hero you need an interesting one.



If all you can do with your hero is attack move, then it becomes boring fast. However, if you have to use your spells carefully, and you need to pay attention to what’s going on in order to use your hero to its max effect, it will hold your attention longer.

As an example some of the funnier heroes in Dota are:

(In no particular order)

• Techies
• Priestess of the Moon
• Huskar
• Puck
• Invoker
• Dark Seer
• Obsidian Destroyer
• Bloodseeker

What do they all have in common?

• They all have interesting triggered spells that work together and fit the heroes’ character.
• They take skill to be played well; they can’t be played well by just attack moving.
• They have a purpose; they’re all good at different things. They were designed to be good at some things.

The hero I played in your game didn’t seem to have any strong point at all; none of its skills worked together very well. It didn’t seem like it was designed to be anything; a pusher a hero killer, or support nor any other type as far as I could tell.


Your items also had similar problems, there was too many boring base items and not enough interesting items that did anything besides give stats.
I assume the terrain isn’t finished so I don’t have any comments about that besides the fact that it seemed a little large.

I didn't play all the heroes but from the descriptions, they sounded like they had similar problems.

Could be a fun map after some work, if keep at it I'm sure it will be.

(None of what I said was meant to be insulting; I was just giving constructive criticism)

Good luck with your map!

 

[Zacharias]

Hi!

Thx for your comment, that really helps
Dont know which Hero you played, please precise it. The first heros i made in this map were boring, yes actually that´s true (because its my first map ). I tried to improve them, but actually i did more work on balancing the good ones.
Did you try the elite-items? Tried to make them more interesting, item-abilities will be done later...

Referring to your (and others) critique about the "slow" gameplay (or too large map):
This is the last update on this terrain, the whole map/gameplay will be redone. The terrain is too.... well "soft". So i will give it a new name, a "rought" terrain and a new system concerning the outposts. The concept is nearly finished and should boost up gamespeed and fun-factor greatly.

 

[Evan1993]

Hi!
Dont know which Hero you played, please precise it. The first heros i made in this map were boring, yes actually that´s true (because its my first map ).

Its very good for a first map! I'm my first map was all my fav units placed down and some creeps to kill. lol.

I tried to improve them, but actually i did more work on balancing the good ones.

Both the spearmaster and the tauren cheiften seemed like it to me. Havn't played any others.

Did you try the elite-items? Tried to make them more interesting, item-abilities will be done later...

Not sure what you mean by Elite items.

Referring to your (and others) critique about the "slow" gameplay (or too large map):
This is the last update on this terrain, the whole map/gameplay will be redone. The terrain is too.... well "soft". So i will give it a new name, a "rought" terrain and a new system concerning the outposts. The concept is nearly finished and should boost up gamespeed and fun-factor greatly.

Sounds good, keep up the good work!

 

[Zacharias]

Not sure what you mean by Elite items.

Look into your quest log, there were 2 quests un each side to unlock the elite-items. The quest wont be required for all items in the new map ...

 

[Evan1993]

Look into your quest log, there were 2 quests un each side to unlock the elite-items. The quest wont be required for all items in the new map ...

Oh, those, I though you were talking about some item shop called "elite items" that you could buy stuff from.

 

[Bizz]

OK first don't listen to Evan1993! the less it looks like dota the better! Now about the game itself:
Firstly try fixing the terrain and defenses locations. 4 example when evil army comes to the humans base on upper lane they get hit by middle towers, and creeps from middle going to upper lane and attackers go to middle lane w/o attacking the upper. And defenses itself are kinda weak, cause I picked gayass mage and started pushing middle from the start. Enemy came 2 this lane only when I was at second flag and he couldn't do anything to stop giant army that already spawned, cause of my golem was tanking most of dmg, and with this first push we could of destroyed the first defense towers, if I would of ordered my golem and hero to attack towers...
Secondly try adding more trigger skills, cause playing as archangel only non usual stuff that I saw was the dmg based on stats, and also thats not a new thing... And as gayass mage there was no non standard skills at all T_T
Oh and how about adding better creeps? cause I could solo all the neutral creeps at lvl 10 or so as angel. BTW the bridge 2 the strongest one doesn't work, I had to use blink.
About the items I must say that I like maps where u can upgrade your items, but mostly u will just get the best items by visiting shop 2-3 times ( I mean buying 2-3 upgrades at a time). How about making items stronger and more expensive? (no more <1000 g per up) Ind also it was kinda gay that there is no elite items 4 agi heroes...

 

[Zacharias]

First of all, thanks! Thats what i call constructive criticism!
All points mentioned beneath will be fixed in the next update.

Firstly try fixing the terrain and defenses locations. 4 example when evil army comes to the humans base on upper lane they get hit by middle towers, and creeps from middle going to upper lane and attackers go to middle lane w/o attacking the upper.

I relocated spawnpoints of creeps. As the base is the only terrain that was taken over from the last version of the map, i´m considering about redesigning them.

And defenses itself are kinda weak, cause I picked gayass mage and started pushing middle from the start. Enemy came 2 this lane only when I was at second flag and he couldn't do anything to stop giant army that already spawned, cause of my golem was tanking most of dmg, and with this first push we could of destroyed the first defense towers, if I would of ordered my golem and hero to attack towers...

I think the main problem is the fast creep spawn time. Its just too fast, because there is an giant army rolling right trought the defense, when s.o. pushes from back to front.

Secondly try adding more trigger skills, cause playing as archangel only non usual stuff that I saw was the dmg based on stats, and also thats not a new thing... And as gayass mage there was no non standard skills at all T_T

I´m currently redesigning the heros i made at the beginning of the map. Gayas magei s one of them.

Oh and how about adding better creeps? cause I could solo all the neutral creeps at lvl 10 or so as angel.

Yes the will come, the terrain is new, so please be patient

BTW the bridge 2 the strongest one doesn't work, I had to use blink.

Fixed.

About the items I must say that I like maps where u can upgrade your items, but mostly u will just get the best items by visiting shop 2-3 times ( I mean buying 2-3 upgrades at a time). How about making items stronger and more expensive? (no more <1000 g per up) Ind also it was kinda gay that there is no elite items 4 agi heroes...

K, it rings true.
But AGI-Items where availiable, at the hunters shop. Try out the 3 bows and the chest.
All items where just the base of making recipes. As you can see, currently there were just a few real recipes, most were just updates.
They will come soon.

thx.

 

[Evan1993]

OK first don't listen to Evan1993! the less it looks like dota the better! Now about the game itself:

Erm. I never said it should look like dota, I think you missed the point of my post. I said some of the same things you just said.

I played the most recent ver just now, its alot better. I may give more suggestions when I have time, for now though I just noticed that towers can't see invis.

 

[Zacharias]

Erm. I never said it should look like dota, I think you missed the point of my post. I said some of the same things you just said.

I played the most recent ver just now, its alot better. I may give more suggestions when I have time, for now though I just noticed that towers can't see invis.

Thats a good point, thx.
It would be nice to here more suggestions, every idea welcome. There is also a thread in the map dev. section -> http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/f202/neatherland-conflict-104947/

 

[sib]

this map is good!!

you got a pretty much creative idea of hero.

terrain is great, not too much or too few.

 

[Hashinshin]

HRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

I keep running this through my mind, but I think that creep upgrade rate should be increased again. I think it was 6 minutes a few patches ago, and 7 minutes now. Possibly drop it to 6:30. Playing a champion like the warlock who mostly helps creeps and then the creeps in response can't damage heroes that much doesn't work out.

Sorry about comming back and keep saying to do the opposite. It really depends on what hero I play the creeps either seem too good or too bad. I think it should be improved but not to what it was, just a minor improvement as I listed above. when you're the warlock who mostly relies on creeps fighting for you, you start to realize their damage is a bit lacking.

Actually, scratch that. Make it something like 6 minutes 45 seconds. That should give it just that little extra umph.

Creep armor needs to scale up faster though, possibly twice as fast. The creeps themselves start to slaughter through each other at higher levels. I know I'm dealing wayyyy too much damage to them and 3 shotting them which kinda makes lane pushing heroes useless. Maybe not twice as fast (exaggeration), but probably at least 20% faster.

LICH!

Lich is great, I like him. He regenerates health too which is a bug but it does give him that little umph he needs to be a lane pusher. He can't take any heroes 1v1 so having the health regen has not caused him to be any more powerful than the other heroes. First patch and pretty well balanced, very nice IMO. Only problem I find is his ultimate I NEVER use. (ever) Hes too vulnerable to use something like that.

The druid. Deer guy?

His deer are great, really. But this is the next thing I'd work scaling on, their life and damage should progressively go up once he reaches level 5 in deer based on his atk/life/defense

OK THOUGH

Big suggestion here.

Siege weapons. Yeah, siege weapons. At something like 10 minutes into the game each wave should start to spawn with a longer ranged siege weapon that can take down towers. Why? Its still freaking impossible to break into bases. The towers slaughter anything that enters in seconds and then heal back up before another wave pushes in, which brings me to suggestion #2. We get into this long annoying stale mate where neither team can muster enough to break down a base when no team's heroes leave. We are still relying almost completely on the other team quitting in order to break into a base.

Lower the tower's damage (base towers, obviously) by maybe 20%. They are brutal as all hell right now. Healing is fine, damage would still repel people. But late game we just need to end it, after an hour you're just wanting the game to end already, the towers just gun down anything in sight and slaughter any hope of ending it.

ALSO... Can I use the trebuchets one day ? I keep looking at them wishing I could use them >_>.

Consider making creeps spawn faster on each upgrade. Near the end of the game you get giant gaps between waves as you are capable of killing them better. You know, like if they spawn every 30 seconds at upgrade 1 they spawn every 29 seconds, at upgrade 2 every 28 seconds, so on like that. I do mean gaps too, as in your mobs died at the tower, you sit there twiddling your thumbs for 15 seconds waiting for the next wave.

Also consider adding like... burst waves. Each player every 5 or so minutes can cause an additional wave to spawn from each area so you can get those bases dead. Think like each player gets a building, you get 1 mana a second from that builing, 450 max mana. 300 mana is an additional wave.

Really just spitballing ideas here to get around the insurmountable base problem. Just quit out of a 1 hour 20 minute game where everyone quit (had kept a 4v5 game) cause neither side could take down the opposition's base.

TLDR: Lich is great, ultimate doesn't fit in though. Creep armor needs to scale better. Creep upgrades should be 6 minutes 45 seconds. Siege weapons need to spawn to kill towers to end stale mates. Tower damage needs to be lowered a tidbit. Consider making creep waves spawn faster with upgrades (AKA, each upgrade in addition lowers waves from 30 seconds to 29 to 28 and so on, to give a feeling of progression through the battle.)

 

[Zacharias]

Hashinshin your doing a good job
I´ve written down your ideas, i will "embed" them in the next update, which should go online in the next days, probably today.
to make it short:

• faster weapon and armor improvement - yes, i will scale that (capped)
• lich ulti - i think this gives the possibility to play the lich in an other way, buying +life and armor items, he could do fine with his ulti and also allow him to win a 1vs1
• scaling summoned creatures is nearly impossible, but i'll try to find a workaround
• The big "end game issue": i won't include siege weapons, this is not what its about, but i will add an other win condition (winning by controlling all flags)

Anyone tested professions? Please give some critique

Edit: The Lich's Liferegen isn´t affected by his ability. Manaregen works fine.

 

[Hashinshin]

Ok, this is gonna be mostly praise.

Increased spawns makes the end of the game feel a lot more epic and fun. ++there.

The 6 minutes thing actually happened in the first game I played, awesome.

Heroes are starting to become very closely balanced, very nice.

I have to say the map has really improved since this last version and has become significantly more fun.

That said, I played around with the heroes a bit.
-The good side's mage, the one with the blood elf model? I'm still aweful with names. His life siphon even non scaling is pretty bad. Blademaster can just run up to you, outdamage it, and slaughter you. All the nonscalingness made me feel eck. I'd suggest something like 30% increased drain with a scaling component somehow, and the other abilities (AoE heal and immolate) reworked to be more... useful. So they feel like they do more. The heal ability is kinda meh cause creeps die and live fast, the immolate is just an activate and forget.

Chainmaster is starting to feel good. I saw his one damage ability fail to do damage though and blademaster destroyed him. I'd say he could use maybe 10-20% more damage but hes pretty good against range.

Lich still feels good, but the auto attack +damage is starting to feel a little meh to me. Something more activated would be nice.

the Unnamed bones is a kinda one trick pony. His armor scales to 20, then he splits and takes down a tower. Repeat... kinda meh. You should try to get him at least 1 activated ability for offense so he feels less auto attack.

Paladin is looking very nice. Holy light kinda gets outscaled at the end, but hes good. His ultimate needs to come SIGNIFICANTLY down in mana however, since its hard to aim and stops you taking you out of melee, and at 180 mana its ridiculously expensive, should be 100 tops. I'd suggest upping the coefficient on the strength of his hammer by 1 each (to 3 4 5 ) since its only usable once since it pushes the enemy farrr away from you.

Tauren I think needs his aura changed to an activatable ability. Maybe something where he does a warcry which increases damage done by 50% of his total damage ? Tauren and druid have great synergy and this would help a lot more.

Blademaster's beserk ability (with the red weapon) can be toned down just a smidgen, like maybe 10% less effect. He puts some serious hurt on the casters and they never escape, but he is killable. Just a minor tune down.

Oracle feels sorta weak. I didn't play her personally but a teammate did and he seemed incapable of doing damage. Even hitting his blasts and stuff did unrewarding damage for how difficult it was.

To be honest, I havn't touched professions much. 1000g and skillpoints (which aren't free till 21+ for characters with 4 good abilities) feels harsh. It is a different way to scale your character though so I won't say much here. Just that it'd be interesting if you could use professions to man the trebuchets or something.

To end with more positive news: This map is a lot of fun in this version. REALLY fun. A lot of fun.

 

[Deep_Blade]

To scale summons just make the summons heroes, and scale the str/agi/int accordingly.

 

[Zacharias]

-The good side's mage, the one with the blood elf model? I'm still aweful with names. His life siphon even non scaling is pretty bad. Blademaster can just run up to you, outdamage it, and slaughter you. All the nonscalingness made me feel eck. I'd suggest something like 30% increased drain with a scaling component somehow, and the other abilities (AoE heal and immolate) reworked to be more... useful. So they feel like they do more. The heal ability is kinda meh cause creeps die and live fast, the immolate is just an activate and forget.

I won´t scale all spells. First it takes a lot of performance and secondly it doesn´t make sense in all cases.
Bloodmage is going to be reworked.

the Unnamed bones is a kinda one trick pony. His armor scales to 20, then he splits and takes down a tower. Repeat... kinda meh. You should try to get him at least 1 activated ability for offense so he feels less auto attack.

Unnamed bones is going to be reworked.

I'd suggest upping the coefficient on the strength of his hammer by 1 each (to 3 4 5 ) since its only usable once since it pushes the enemy farrr away from you.

Hammer is not only sth for dmg, it can also safe your ass when you´re nearly down. Therefor i think its well balanced.

Tauren I think needs his aura changed to an activatable ability. Maybe something where he does a warcry which increases damage done by 50% of his total damage ? Tauren and druid have great synergy and this would help a lot more.

Ok i will think about that, any ideas beside a standart (boring) warcry?

Oracle feels sorta weak. I didn't play her personally but a teammate did and he seemed incapable of doing damage. Even hitting his blasts and stuff did unrewarding damage for how difficult it was.

I´ve improved her a little bit. She is really hard to play. But at lvl22 and some +INT items she is just... well awesome.

To be honest, I havn't touched professions much. 1000g and skillpoints (which aren't free till 21+ for characters with 4 good abilities) feels harsh. It is a different way to scale your character though so I won't say much here. Just that it'd be interesting if you could use professions to man the trebuchets or something.

I´m going to lower costs for professions. They are no condition to be good. But they can help, these professions are just supporting abilities (like heal etc).

To scale summons just make the summons heroes, and scale the str/agi/int accordingly.

There are several spells, auras and triggers which can only be cast on heros or exclude casting on heros.
All those will need to be retriggert. I would have to add conditions checking for unit-types. That reduces performance for sure.
The second problem is just as simple: All summoned units will start with their default str/int/agi, i would have to manually change them.

There is a better way by using tech-improvements. But thats not continuous "scaled".

 

[Hashinshin]

BTW, got an idea for the lich.

Lower the cost of his AoE by maybe 20% but instead of a boring auto cast damage enhancing ability give him something to defend against other heroes. Give him an iceball that does comparative damage to the hammer ability from the paladin but is ranged. A snowball eske attack, his enemies then knocks them back about half what the paladin's does.

Make make the lich more than a 1 button pusher.

About the lich too. Lich versus fire mage is like fire mage verus fire mage lite. His AoE spawns multiple creeps, goes over a MASSIVE area, and does the same general damage. Fireball dominates the enhanced auto attack, and his AoE dominates mine. I feel like the lich could be tuned up a bit more to match his more fiery counterpart on the good side.

Main point for this post: Cursemaster.

Both his felhunter and tentacles need to be at like 1/2 the health and his damage needs to be toned down a bit. Hes the #1 hero by a bit right now. Tentacle spamming can overwhelm lanes that have 2 heroes on them (1000 life?) and a felhound can solo a hero (1600 life?) He can also pretty much blow up any hero with his DoT effect.

Spearmaster needs his slow to get some serious tune down. Theres no escaping him.

Mummy: this guy is actually pretty cool, really. Couple things though: This guy suffers from spawns not scaling, a non scaling AoE where as the fire mage and lich ect scale their AoEs and do gobs of damage late game, and why is his primary stat intellect ? Seems like he should be ability for armor or strength for life... otherwise pretty dang cool.

Couple suggestions for him: Make his carrion swarm scale off his primary stat (preferably strength.) His ultimate should be changed to a slightly spammable "decay" type ability that slows enemy's attack speed and movement speed. That'd fit a lot more into his playstyle of wearing down enemies. Sandstorm should also be 4% of life per second (over 2% per second.) That'd be much more fitting, and possibly even more % HP, DEFINITELY make it have a bigger AoE range though, seems pretty small. Cool hero, but kinda gimp in actual implementation. Would love a way for him to heal too, seems like that'd help him a lot. Basic idea here is to make him do more damage and have more survivability and change his ultimate to something more fitting a melee hero. If his ultimate some some sort of root too (mummies from below pulling the enemy down) to let him get up to range or something that'd be immensely cool. Guy needs a slow though.

 

[Zacharias]

I´ve jot some ideas down, will implement them in the next few days.

Regarding the Hammer ability: it´s too strong, not just a bit, it´s simply imba. The Paladin can take out any hero in 4 seconds.

The next update will contain several bugfixes, performance improvements and hero updates. The map size will also be reduced by 20%.

 

[Hashinshin]

IF you are going to include anything, the #1 complaint I get in game is the gold lost.

Why reduce the map size though ? That seems random.

 

[Zacharias]

IF you are going to include anything, the #1 complaint I get in game is the gold lost.

It will be lowered yes, but btw. SMotA, just as an example, has also a high gold penalties.That doesn´t affect the quality of the map or gameplay.

Why reduce the map size though ? That seems random.

It should be playable on bnet too. It´s impossible to spread a map with a size of 3MB, dude... think we both want to play that map with more then just 2-3 other guys.
I also want to clear some space for future attachments.

Be patient, i won't ignore your suggestions.

 

[Hashinshin]

I host it on Bnet all the time, which is why the #1 complaint I get from other people is that you lose too much gold... followed of course by that everyone else's hero is overpowered and their sucks.

 

[Zacharias]

I host it on Bnet all the time, which is why the #1 complaint I get from other people is that you lose too much gold... followed of course by that everyone else hero is overpowered and their sucks.

Yes everyone is a pro, it's really hard to admit his own failure in this map "...well let's put the blame on the overpowered heros..."
Shure it´s some kind of imba (version 0.11), but i think you are just pwning all others since you know my map well

Some are hard to play, some not. Maybe i should note that in the hero menu (e.g. Firemage is easy, Oracle is really hard).

S.o. noticed several typos in the hero and ability texts - since i'm not a native speeker, it would be great if you could just mention any occurrences.

 

[Hashinshin]

Ok, pretty fun.

Tauren seems a wee-bit damaging but hes also a slower melee with no ranged attack or stealth or anything like that. Pretty threatening guy now.

Lich's new move is pretty freaking awesome looking and doing.

Mummy's sand vortex thingy still feels a little weak. 3% health per second is really nothing when other classes can destroy waves of creeps pretty easily in a few seconds. Should really considering upping it to 5 or 6%.

I got complaints over the stockmarket guy being buggy, and a typo with nuclear.

 

[Zacharias]

Ok, pretty fun.

Tauren seems a wee-bit damaging but hes also a slower melee with no ranged attack or stealth or anything like that. Pretty threatening guy now.

Yeah he´s a bit ... owning

Mummy's sand vortex thingy still feels a little weak. 3% health per second is really nothing when other classes can destroy waves of creeps pretty easily in a few seconds. Should really considering upping it to 5 or 6%.

Ok i´ll think about that.

I got complaints over the stockmarket guy being buggy, and a typo with nuclear.

Stockmarket guy has some serious bugs, yes. I´ll fix that in the next hours.
It´s not a typo, its spelled n-u-c-u-l-a-r.
Out of wikipedia "nucular"

Homer Simpson uses nucular in the cartoon The Simpsons. In the episode "Simpson Tide", Homer uses it in correcting the captain of a nuclear submarine.

Therefor, his name is Sergeant H.S. - which stands for Homer Simpson

 

[vegetation]

can this map being played with cpu?

 

[Zacharias]

can this map being played with cpu?

No. It´s not planned by now.

 

[Hashinshin]

Ok.

Bloodmage's AoEheal thing heals enemys.

Sandstorm does not drain mana at all.

Towers need to regenerate life again. Bases feel a little too .... vulnerable.

Flag guards scale down in power through the game, eventually feeling more like a roadblock than something of actual threat.

Mr. Stock Restock should probably have his tooltip updated to say that he relies on getting gold and not actual combat.

The lich's new ability is hotkeyed to "C" instead of on the QWER system. Your map never tells people that things are bound to QWER I don't think.

Steal soul is NOT draining the appropriate life. I think it is draining the appropriate mana, maybe. (This is the skeleton king's drain life.) I think it's geeeeeneral place in power is good now though. Fixing it might make it too much, but we can only wait and see.

<<Killing people merely resets your gold>>

The angel guy's starfall type attack feels... kinda really weak. Maybe the people I play against using it just don't stack agility though.

Skeleton bomb could use a ~2-5 second cooldown. You can currently send 4 skeletons into a pack of footmen and blow them all up if you can quickly click bomb on all 4. Or on other heroes. Not a BIG deal but a 2 second cooldown would at least stop the massive burst. I was playing him and I just felt like a 2 second cooldown was in order. Otherwise another one of my favorite heroes, all his abilities are all very good !

You reduced the life of strength heroes but the 1000 health item is still there. If you intended that to be like that then thats fine, but if you didn't want to see the 2000+ health monsters roaming around then people with that item are pretty hard to actually kill.

Thats all I got for now.

 

[Zacharias]

You reduced the life of strength heroes but the 1000 health item is still there.

Where? Ther is only one item, Matteressence, giving you 500hp. It works fine. The tooltip is also correct.

 

[Hashinshin]

Just checked. Matter essence in my game is +1000 HP in tooltip. Version 0.13

Didn't check if it actually gave +1000 life, but I did JUST start a game and look at the tooltip.

 

[Zacharias]

Just checked. Matter essence in my game is +1000 HP in tooltip. Version 0.13

Didn't check if it actually gave +1000 life, but I did JUST start a game and look at the tooltip.

My failure, i´ve changed it yesterday - 0.14 so it will be included in the next update.

But Lich´ hotkeys work fine.

 

[Conlan]

Please rename the Good Sword and Perfectly Blanced Sword lol =D

 

[Hashinshin]

Ok, I was playing the dark lord (the dreadlord model) and it seemed like his ultimate was a little lackluster. It did ~2x the damage of similar damage+stun abilities, but had 2-4x the cooldown and a HUGE mana cost, and it was his ultimate. I think if you made it a 60 second cooldown with maybe 150 mana cost it would be a lot better. Otherwise hes a strong lane pusher hero.

BTW: For one of the lane pusher heroes a cool idea would be an aura that progressively reduced spell damage taken. Like 10-20-30-40-50% less damage taken from spells. Would make their job a lot easier against AoE masters.

On the load screen you say "secundary abilities" instead of the proper "secondary abilities"

 

[Zacharias]

Ok, I was playing the dark lord (the dreadlord model) and it seemed like his ultimate was a little lackluster. It did ~2x the damage of similar damage+stun abilities, but had 2-4x the cooldown and a HUGE mana cost, and it was his ultimate. I think if you made it a 60 second cooldown with maybe 150 mana cost it would be a lot better. Otherwise hes a strong lane pusher hero.

Ok i´ve changed this, also increased intitial damage and stun duration - Lvl1 and 2 where too weak.

BTW: For one of the lane pusher heroes a cool idea would be an aura that progressively reduced spell damage taken. Like 10-20-30-40-50% less damage taken from spells. Would make their job a lot easier against AoE masters.

No go, that would be imba. Seriously, this hero would pwn all others, as he is nearly immune (50%??) to spells.
Even 20% would tilt game balance.

On the load screen you say "secundary abilities" instead of the proper "secondary abilities"

Fixed. Thx.

 

[Hashinshin]

Noticed a few problems with the new heroes.

The new mage has primary attribute strength with abilities scaling intellect.

Aging does nothing. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but even when I'm next to the enemies it does 0 damage. In addition, the dark mage's ultimate seems a little weak. Should be 2x intellect or sometihng.

The vampire's tooltip says "hundrets" instead of "hundreds"

The turn into a bat ability is not hotkeyed to E. Its also a rather steep cost for an ability thats meant to be spammed. Should really be maybe 50 tops.

The vampire as a whole is so so so weak. His bite should really be 1/2 agility per second (I would even say 1 agility per second). Compare it to the Angel's whirlwind attack which is 1 agility a second and makes him immune to CC. The bite stuns but scales at 1/10 the rate. His heal is also very weak for a guy that loses life non stop. I think its a good idea, but I would REALLY weaken his penalty. Its 5% every 3 seconds now, I would start at 3% every 5 seconds and go from there. His life just whittles away in no time. In this game where high life regen is pretty common having negative life regen with no real positive for it doesn't make sense.

<<<Mr. Stock Restock can take control of enemy heroes>>> He can make them drop all items, shove them far back in base, and generally basically instant kill them forever.

Mummy is still weak. The idea of draining the enemy of mana and life or whatnot doesn't work when they can just outright kill him. He gets the lowest starting armor (0) and not very much a good life pool.

Oracle and spearmaster seem to be doing a lot more damage than others. Spearmaster still has the problem of slow through any means then just destroying you.

Though about something BTW: Why not have player owned mobs (the summons) scale off the upgrades ? That way they'd keep pace with everyone at the pace of the creeps. No real work required and very balanced.

Blood mage's life steal scales off int, his primary stat and other ability are agility. In addition, his blood heal doesn't hurt enemies. Typo in his ultimate too says "bloodmages" instead of "bloodmage."

The commander's shield block ability is bound to A instead of the right one. His ultimate really seems lame though. Seems like you can give him something more commandery. Some sort of strike attack, a melee move. Like the paladin's hammers.

Chain Master's bad chain ability seems bugged. The end damage often just doesn't pop up at all.

Golden Golem's ultimate bugs out and doesn't let you respawn.

If you could seriously release a quick new version fixing mr stock restock and at least fixing up the abilities and buffing vampire a bit that'd be appreciated, the Mr Stock Restock thing though makes me worried everytime I play if somebody will find that.

 

[Deep_Blade]

Hey found a bug here, the Blood Mage?, or sum hero like that, his immolation also damages himself. Also his blood wind or wateva it was called is quite uber. He can practically continually cast it, meaning he can heal in an AOE of about 150 hp a sec, as well as continually damaging his enemies in an AOE.

 

[Zacharias]

K thx. Give me some minutes. Half of the reported bugs are already fixed. I nee aprrox 2hrs for the rest.

Edit: 30min uuh that was fast, have fun