Multiple skins for single units

[Daelin]

So howdy there people, it's been a long time since I've done any modding (Warcraft or Starcraft). Seeing as I'm a bit rusty and still getting used to the Galaxy Editor (actually started playing with it a few days ago), I still have a few questions here and there. So expect a series of questions from me around here, and hopefully someone can help me. ^^

Today's question is related to models and skins. I've noticed the format is a bit different so I'm not going to give such a long shot as to attempt to create new models for the game (I was never a talented modeler anyway), but I've been wondering whether they have upgraded the system as to isolate the skin path outside the model. More specifically, can the system set the skin for a specific model or even an individual unit or it's the same way as before (4 different skins = 4 different model files)?

~Daelin

 

[Dr Super Good]

More specifically, can the system set the skin for a specific model or even an individual unit or it's the same way as before (4 different skins = 4 different model files)?

SC2 does support interchangable skins. You can even change skins for a model on the fly at certain actor events. The only catch is you need to declare all the skin replacements in the appropiate model catalog entry before the game starts and it seems not all skin files can be replaced currently. If you need an example, check out the "Dark Protoss" buildings which are nothing more than a skin swap of normal protoss buildings (be aware that the dark protoss units use a different modles from normal so its only the buildings which demonstrate the skin swapping mechanic).

SC2 mapster has a lot of material on how to do this and its effects apparently incase you do not twig how to do it from the limited sample the campaign provides.

Today's question is related to models and skins. I've noticed the format is a bit different so I'm not going to give such a long shot as to attempt to create new models for the game (I was never a talented modeler anyway)

Wait till HotS, Blizzard will provide editor intigrated art tools to make it much easier to make models (they promiss prety much 1 button import from a specific commercial model editor program like 3DStudioMax or whatever it is called).

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Oh a person I remember from my newby years in WC3Sear.ch. Welcome back, you're from the good guys I remember and nice to see you switching to sc2. Afterall most who still do war3 started not earlier than 2008.

I remember you were quite good with particles but atm there is no Magos tool for SC2. For models, as DSG said.

At the moment the only way to do export import from say war3 to SC2 or make your own is using 3ds max with the M3 model export or import script. The scripts are quite good as they allow you to choose a special option for Materials called 'Starcraft 2' where you can browse the different types of texture for say Diffuse, Normal, Specular, also add attachment points.

The method for changing textures unfortunately isn't as simple as war3 just import your custom texture and tadamm unit appears with new texture. Here it requires Texture Select By Id method, with actor events.

Not to say some UI repalcement e.g changing Supply(food) icon require importing a txt with the path,

Overall it's not the most rational editor to work with, sometimes painful but with the graphics great things can be done

 

[Daelin]

@Dr Super Good, thank you for all the useful info. It was just the answer I was looking for. I am actually looking for a method to actually add multiple skins to a simple rectangular plane - and the number is intended to be rather large so it would be very unproductive to add an obnoxiously large number of models. Are there any limitations for this technique regarding the number of the skins? And do you know what is the size limit of a map?

The new editor sounds sweet. Looking forward to seeing what Blizzard comes up with.


@Eimtr, great to see you too. I was not as much of a modeler as a spell-maker/scripter. I intend to focus on this aspect in Starcraft II, and I am actually studying that aspect as we speak. At the same time however it's good I get a few information about the other areas - you never know when they might prove useful.

I never used Magos. I made all my models from scratch in 3dsmax. But if there is no support for custom ribbons or particles I'm a bit clueless at the moment. This is all interesting future research though, so thank you for all the information.

~Daelin

 

[Dr Super Good]

Are there any limitations for this technique regarding the number of the skins? And do you know what is the size limit of a map?

There is a demonstration map allowing you to view a variety of models with different textures. I am not sure how exactly it works but it might answer limitations of skins questions.

The size of a map is prety large (I think its 12 or 16 MB). You can futher extend this by importing data into mods which you make your map depend on. This means that you can place a maximum of your account's storage limit of custom content in a map. Blizzard may be able to raise the limit for individuals who run into size limitations so I suspect that there is no limit to the actual custom content size of a good map.

As for spell making and scripting. SC2 editor is a lot more powerful than WC3 allowing full custimaization of every aspect of an ability.

Scripting is another problem though. Galaxy, SC2's scripting language, is a lot more efficient than JASS in WC3. It compiles fully to bytecode when loading the map so runs a lot faster than JASS in WC3 which only compiled basic instructions into bytecode and relies on name resolving for every named field. The Galaxy Virtual Machine is also a lot less buggy than the JASS interpreter. It is virtually impossible to cause memory leaks by accident as it has a fully functional garbage collector (types like points, unitgroups, playergroups etc are all freed automaticly). Locals are fully implimented (so none of the nulling at function end nonsense like JASS had). The actual trigger design is much more light weight than WC3 needing only 1 function call to set up a trigger and bind a handler function to it. Additionally, the SC2E's GUI engine is not retarded (does not make stupid quantities of bloat like WE's GUI did) so it is perfectly acceptable to make components in GUI as the performance loss is minimal atmost. Bitwise opperators are fully supported unlike JASS where they were abscent. Language support of the modulo opperator is also included unlike JASS where it was emulated.

There are a lot of scripting limitations to be aware of that SC2 has but WC3 did not unforntunatly. There is a thread limit now, meaing that a limited number of executing threads generated by triggers can run at any given time. Threads have a noticably finite stack size now so it is important to manage recursive calls carefully. There are no dynamic memory constructs next to a single string mapped hashtable (even arrays are now allocated fixed heap sizes). There is a 2 MB odd limit to the heap size that a script can use (meaning about a pool of 500,000 spaces to use in global variables and arrays). Perodic triggers are limited to executing atmost 10 times per second which is about once every 6 game frames although blend functions have been added to smooth out animations for this.

There is also much functionality that was removed or is Not Yet Implemented. The ++ and -- operators are not supported (it even tells you a syntax error to that effect lol). Pointers are also not supported (which makes struct use very difficult). There are no "malloc" and "free" functionality so it is impossible to allocate space from the heap dynamicly (only at compile time can allocations be made). Events are socket based meaning that only a few triggers can be hooked to the same event at any given time (although events are much more specific now to make a large number of sockets avaialble).

 

[Daelin]

Oh wow, that was a lot of information Dr Super Good. I kinda figured out some of the stuff you wrote there, and I admit I enjoy discovering some of the stuff, but nevertheless thank you very much. I do notice Starcraft II is much more advanced, and I am not that irritated by the "limits" imposed at this point. Best news you gave me are related to the bytecode compilation. Much better to work on a VM than to actively interpret JASS text.

I will definitely have time playing with the language and testing its limitations.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Never been fan of JASS or any scripts but some people make trigger libraries in GUI and code that when imported add a lot of triggers that say are missing frm the general SC2 triggers. Like random unit from unit of type, random N units from unit of type - some missing triggers are making it painful and instead having to pick every unit on the map and If/Then/Else just because you cant pick unit of type :/

For example item libraries for some item related triggers that were missing from SC2

It is nice to see someone willing to learn smth new, most are too scared of SC2 editor or just SC2 and most old members left or have no desire to do anything anymore, lazy, just spam offtopic forums >_> Also bear in mind that THW is kind of dead place for SC2 and no1s much interested in it, most are new to war3 (yeah I know, lol @ new at war3 in 2012) and that's their game.

 

[Daelin]

It is nice to see someone willing to learn smth new, most are too scared of SC2 editor or just SC2 and most old members left or have no desire to do anything anymore, lazy, just spam offtopic forums >_> Also bear in mind that THW is kind of dead place for SC2 and no1s much interested in it, most are new to war3 (yeah I know, lol @ new at war3 in 2012) and that's their game.

Clearly you haven't known me that much I guess it's tutorial time again. With proper guidance people can gain fascination and interest for Starcraft II. They just need a reason to do so. ^^

And no loling at new @ war3... people come and go that's perfectly normal.