• 🏆 Texturing Contest #33 is OPEN! Contestants must re-texture a SD unit model found in-game (Warcraft 3 Classic), recreating the unit into a peaceful NPC version. 🔗Click here to enter!
  • It's time for the first HD Modeling Contest of 2024. Join the theme discussion for Hive's HD Modeling Contest #6! Click here to post your idea!

Model Uploads

Status
Not open for further replies.
Recently I uploaded some MDX models here on the Hive and I believe it is absurd and barbaric that the model's internal texture paths references are included, and not stripped away in favor of no-path for easy viewing, and yet the attached texture files are deceptively included with no generated folder structure to match.

Should I write a simple application to strip the path strings out of an MDX (given the game MPQs or listfiles so the code would retain in-game paths)? If I coded this in Java, it would likely take only one or two hours.
 
Yeah, that's a design flaw in the editor that will hopefully someday be fixed.
One of these nights I'll see if I can catch the time to build and upload a command line MDX path stripper to this thread.

Edit: This is 2018. I understood the Warcraft III texture path system 14 years ago in the 4th grade. Yet, somebody still sent me a thoughtful extensive private message asking why "some of the models that I recently uploaded don't work." I haven't heard back yet if texture paths are the problem -- which is my guess -- but it seems like if so the Hive's systems aren't doing him any favors in this case.
 
Last edited:

Ralle

Owner
Level 77
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
10,101
I feel very strongly against editing the internals of people's submitted models. The model you upload has to be the model you upload. If the site starts editing them things will in my opinion get messy. It's up to the modeler to set the proper model paths.

This is also a maintenance nightmare because you don't want to strip away the standard textures, only custom ones. If a new patch contains a texture that my system is not yet aware of, the model will be edited to use this texture but without the folder path and then the game won't find it.

There is also no point in setting the folder path inside the downloaded zip as that folder doesn't populate the text field for the path anyway.

If your model editor exports models with no path, good on you. For the world editor import manager, paths don't have much of a value, so it might be a helpful feature.
 
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
No matter if you import a single resource or a bunch with the batch import they ALL will be named "war3mapImported\YOURNAMEHERE".
It is not really an issue with the Hive, as you can easily view the model with the on-site model viewer. It is more a small issue of a program what has been developed over 17 years ago. Nothing really can be done there, besides double checking paths when importing if it is necessary.

I agree on NOT carrying the brunt of uploaders duties of assuring that the resource is working properly.
The only thing Hive needs to do is display the information.

However, it is a noble undertaking of trying to make things easier, though personally I don't see it much of an issue.
 
Fan made tools have existed for years that would import a folder filled with models inside sub directories and build the import manager settings to match. It is possible in both WEX and JNGP, although JNGP had a drop-down menu option for it. I can honestly say if your project ever gets large enough that you actually want to search through the models inside it with an MPQ browser, putting everything at war3mapImported seems silly.

I guess as long as we live in a world where the fan made tools to strip paths would be considered untrustworthy, and people wouldn't be certain that a "modified" uploaded model wasn't exactly the same, it makes sense that if you trust nothing believing that "change" in an uploaded model is bad makes sense to me in a way. But, from the standpoint of editing models, it doesn't make sense to me. Every time I open and save a model in my software, it reorganizes a few things, but was supposed to suffer no data loss. This was more true of the MDL parser I wrote long ago than the MDX libraries I use which were not written by me.
I try not think of the reorganized file as having been changed. Thinking on that low of a level is like giving up in the idea of software itself to me, at least conceptually. To me, believing that all change is untrustworthy was how I lived and how I made Warcraft III models in fourth grade before I was taught programming. But it is not how I want to live anymore.

If you believe that altering binary bits in an uploaded file is simply wrong and feels bad, I must admit that automatically changing all paths in an MDX when saving to "war3mapImported/" to me feels simply wrong and bad. You're absolutely correct it would improve import time. But to me, if you wanted to improve import time, the correct solution is to change the world editor to import a model and its linked textures from its folder all at the same time, with one click -- and then to import those textures with the correct paths, which it will be able to see at that time.

Cooler idea: new fan made file extension, .tftmdx which includes textures and the model file all in one binary, with correct paths. Then, HiveWE could get it right when importing, better model editors could get it right while editing, and the Hive's online viewer could get it right.

Then there are some people who will run WorldEdit.exe on Windows XP. We don't need to worry about supporting them, because the only users who should choose do so should be people conscious enough that they're supporting themself that they could break a .tftmdx into it's components and import them, and assign correct paths.

@Ralle does the Hive have any policy against nonstandard use of it's servers? For example, suppose that I decide to make etheller.com/hive/upload/model so that even if your users believe strongly in choosing their own MDX paths, I could have my own upload page that cures the model then uploads to the Hive's upload page. Is this a violation of anything, or is it acceptable? ( I would just use an HTTPs library and proxy the user's request to the Hive as though they had uploaded manually when they were finished uploading. Obviously this would require entering user credentials on a foreign non-Hive site so it's possible that I would be the only person using it )
 
Last edited:
Why are you trying to fix and issue that you have created yourself? I mean, importing models is not that hard and it is more important we teach people how to properly do it instead of overloading them with new programs. Some people simply do not want to install additional software.

I can see the appeal of having models that are imported on a proper way automatically, but this is such a small issue that I see that there are more important issues in that adjacent subject - like teaching people.
 
Last edited:

Ralle

Owner
Level 77
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
10,101
@Ralle does the Hive have any policy against nonstandard use of it's servers? For example, suppose that I decide to make etheller.com/hive/upload/model so that even if your users believe strongly in choosing their own MDX paths, I could have my own upload page that cures the model then uploads to the Hive's upload page. Is this a violation of anything, or is it acceptable? ( I would just use an HTTPs library and proxy the user's request to the Hive as though they had uploaded manually when they were finished uploading. Obviously this would require entering user credentials on a foreign non-Hive site so it's possible that I would be the only person using it )
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that. People would need to provide you with their username and password for that to work.

However, you can make a simple 'asset path export fixer' where you upload a model and it gives it back to you.
 
tbh I never once understood the point behind people changing texture paths, when they are set exactly once and never need to be changed again, and when changing them causes eternal confusion for the more casual users.

Exactly this. The casual user. When people get more experienced with modding in general they can do whatever they want.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top