MDLvis Changes Bones Without Vertices to Helpers When Saving

[Assassins-Creed]

When I save a model that has bones without vertices attached to it, those bones turn into helpers. Is there a way to avoid this problem? Or maybe my version of MDLvis is bad? It's 1.41 English version.

 

[GhostWolf]

If a bone has no vertices, it's not a bone. What is the issue?

 

[Assassins-Creed]

So I can save my progress while in the middle of attaching the vertices to the bones..... So I don't have to be nervous that I'll lose all my progress if mdlvis crashes. To save the time it takes to readd bones to replace the helpers and redo the hierarchy. Sorry if I'm cranky currently in the middle of evacuating from a cat 4-5 hurricane... But honestly this annoyed me.

 

[Freddyk]

It will also turn helpers to bones if you attach vertices to them, so there is no problem actually.

 

[Assassins-Creed]

It will also turn helpers to bones if you attach vertices to them, so there is no problem actually.

Huh, that's weird.... Just tested this and you are right.... Though on my first time boning, I added bones on MDLvis, then saved without adding vertices to them. I saved again after adding vertices to one-two of the bones. Then, I opened it in Magos, but they were still helpers. This is odd.... I suppose that I should add my bones via Magos, like I have been doing ever since, instead of adding them via MDLvis. Then, it should solve the problem?

 

[GhostWolf]

Solve what problem...?

 

[Uncle Fester]

Well unfortunately this is an in-built issue in MDLVIS. And yes, a bone with no vertices doesn't have to be a bone. A way around this problem is to out-trick the program by constant saving and occasional re-opening the of the model. if the skeleton you wish to use is from an ingame model, then the trick is even simpler. Just merge the corresponding ingame model, merge it with your custom model and then do the vertex assigning in MDLVIS. You can choose in MDLVIS which geoset(s) you want to be visible at the time, so the original model's mesh doesn't make things difficult. This way the bones also always have a vertex assigned to them, so they don't change.

 

[Cuore]

I saved again after adding vertices to one-two of the bones. Then, I opened it in Magos, but they were still helpers. This is odd...

Very odd. So odd that I fail to reproduce this issue on models I made. Could you please upload the model in question so I can see what's going on? thanks

 

[Freddyk]

From my point of view it's very convenient that Mdlvis behaves like this, so that you don't have to care which is a helper and which is a bone, everything is automatic and clean.
When I modify heavily an existing model in Mdlvis and delete vertices, and then open it in Magos I can instantly see which bones are no more needed (since they are now helpers) and delete them.
Having helper+bone for each bone in many official models is just useless clutter, probably caused by conversion from original 3D software, it has no advantage and just doubles the number of nodes.

 

[Assassins-Creed]

Very odd. So odd that I fail to reproduce this issue on models I made. Could you please upload the model in question so I can see what's going on? thanks

The model in question has been saved over, where it no longer has that problem. So, it cannot be uploaded in that state.

From my point of view it's very convenient that Mdlvis behaves like this, so that you don't have to care which is a helper and which is a bone, everything is automatic and clean.
When I modify heavily an existing model in Mdlvis and delete vertices, and then open it in Magos I can instantly see which bones are no more needed (since they are now helpers) and delete them.
Having helper+bone for each bone in many official models is just useless clutter, probably caused by conversion from original 3D software, it has no advantage and just doubles the number of nodes.

The point is, that even though vertices were added to the helpers, after saving and opening it in Magos, the helpers did not become bones.

 

[Uncle Fester]

This happens sometimes too. Let me guess, when you try to assign vertices to them, MDLVIS gives an error message and shuts down, right?
have had that to, but very rarely. This was mostly the case with models that were merged with an ingame skeleton, when the skeleton's ingame mesh was (partly) removed before the vertices of the custom parts were all assigned.
I can't rly say what to do to stop that, but what always helps is to re-make the model from the point where the custom and ingame mesh are merged and then everything. Sometimes this problem also occurs when the model has been overworked dozens of times.
You might not need some of those bone-helpers (bones that got automatically changed into Helpers). If they have nothing assigned to them and no children vertices, you can delete them too, to save a bit on the filesize.

 

[Uncle Fester]

The point is, that even though vertices were added to the helpers, after saving and opening it in Magos, the helpers did not become bones.

oh....i occasionally had that too on models which i changed dozens of times, especially whenever i removed old parts before assigning the new ones to the corresponding bone.
Unfortunately there's no real way to fix/change this in MDLVIS, but there are two ways around the problem, way one is simply remake the model from the point where you merged the custom parts with the skeleton/ingame model. Then do the reassigning before you remove the ingame model's mesh.
Second way: If the skeleton is custom made and the model not already assigned to it, then open the skeletonless model in Magos, create always a few helpers along with a few of the children bones (bones that come after the helper in the hierarchy in Node Manager), assign the vertices to them in MDLVIS, then open your result in Magos, create a few more nodes and reassign again in MDLVIS. It's a bothersome alternative but it might save you from the hassle of automatic vertex-bone changing