Map Protection issues

[Darky29]

BahamuzZERO just told me that map protectors screw the header of the embedded MPQ file inside a map.
The map Protector replaces the header size with a huge random rumber which causes many MPQ apps tp fail opening the archive.
My Script now takes care of those maps and makes my script able to extract minimap and informations out of protected maps.

have fun

Darky27

 

[SantoRayo[iP]]

You rule, dude.
Now create a script that un-protect all maps or better, a program.

 

[thebloodgod_red]

dont do that youll ruen it for those who made the map by alowing dum asses to clam maps as there own

 

[Quiztar]

Ain't nobody claiming maps for themselves.

People want to learn from other maps, not just throw their name on it and host it. Besides people get a bad reputation that way. The only people who are dumb asses are those who protect their maps and think that is a good thing to do. It isn't because newer mapmakers have every right to start learning how to make maps by looking at how other people's maps work from the code inside of them and tinkering with them as experienced mapmakers had from their own early days.

 

[Anubis]

I absolutly agree.
It's just fair let people learn from own Ideas.
I think the only protecting should be alowed at the loding page.

 

[tonicStyles]

I think that if someone takes the trouble to protect their map, they do it for a good reason: they don't want anyone touching it.
So programs that open protected maps are a bad thing IMO.

 

[Quiztar]

Yeah well boo hoo.

If someone thinks they can take a copyritten software package like Blizzard's and customize a little file for use with it and say they copyright that information they are wrong. All of the maps associated with Blizzard including Warcraft III become the property of Blizzard Entertainment because they built the game which runs the map and the engines which build them. The Warcraft III world map editor says that people should open other people's maps to learn how to edit them.

Why should anyone be allowed to make a map that can't be understood? If you simply changed the way maps are saved, Blizzard could easily put a hidden and complexly fortified part of the map to show who made it and who edits it by Warcraft III key, username, world editor version, and some other optional information then authors would have permanent marks on maps to prove they made them. Maps can always be broken. The question is who is allowed to learn from them. All new mapmakers should be allowed to, not just the people with advanced computer science capabilities and their inside friends.

Blizzard breaks map protections quite often when they do battle.net updates. They do this just for the reason I indicated. People don't want heavily encrypted maps on battle.net because map hackers use them to try to thwart blizzard and others use them to just plain keep newer map makers from learning the tools of the trade. And don't be telling me that map encryption doesn't get used in map hacks. When a map hacker hacks they somehow upload their map into the battle.net game rather than allow the blizzard copy to run. After the game, if another player happens to save the game and send a copy to blizzard, blizzard has to watch the replay. If the map won't open for them to check if there were map hacks in it they have to debug it and this takes labor time for them to unprotect the map. The heavier the encryption the more time it takes.

In conclusion, and I can speak on this matter for hours on end here, in many games and in many places in the past we have seen the open source versus closed source argument. People are not making money on battle.net custom games. They are providing free maps for people to play. If they have a website they have a read-only method for people to get the real version of their maps at all times in case some bozo out there alters one. Bigger mapmakers just want to protect their maps because they think they are some kind of corporation or something and people will come kneeling at their websites for the maps they produce.

It is not so. I've left more websites than I remember because they had a bunch of crappy protected maps and wouldn't let people try to take a look at them and make their own modifications. The best way to get maps is to just play on battle.net and eventually you find a nice person out there who provides an unprotected map for ya which shows you some of the latest gadgetry. But the doors are closing. And mainly because of the attitudes of the replies of the people on this thread. Isn't there anyone who will agree that unprotecting maps is good for our gaming community? Just one of ya?

 

[iNVaLiDSyNTaX]

People want to learn from other maps, not just throw their name on it and host it. Besides people get a bad reputation that way. The only people who are dumb asses are those who protect their maps and think that is a good thing to do. It isn't because newer mapmakers have every right to start learning how to make maps by looking at how other people's maps work from the code inside of them and tinkering with them as experienced mapmakers had from their own early days.

I have a wonderful solution to this.
While still protecting maps, the owner of the map includes an e-mail address of some form of contact. As long as the map maker is willing, they can either post up a sort of 'source code' like map, or contact form that would let the learning map maker learn how they did those certain things in the map, without the possibility of plagiarism. The 'source code' map can consist of triggers and abilities etc, but would not require unnecessary things such as the terrain, models, etc. If not, then the learning mapper can contact the map author about how to recreate certain things, and learn from that. This could surely fix the problem of learning mappers, and the map author's will to keep the map unplagiarized. Anyone have any thoughts about this idea?

 

[Quiztar]

This still doesn't address the problem of 3rd party protect.

Third party protections need to be disabled and banned. Blizzard needs to provide a standardized and fair method such as this. I mean yeah, something like an area where the author can put their home page, e-mail and other optional information and the map automatically puts in their battle.net account and server and the date created or modified. You are right about letting the author choose is a good fair decision but Blizzard needs to be able to set the encryption standard for all maps and no one should be permitted to violate the terms of service.

 

[iNVaLiDSyNTaX]

Whatta bout simple un-third party protection? like importing a blank text file and renaming it after the trigger file (forgot the name offhand) that's enough to keep people from totally ripping your map, and then you could provide the 'source code' map thing too if people wanna check it out. Hopefully darky will accept my map with that simple protection on it (the text file one, not that technical scrambler stuff) when i finish and upload my AoS, The Moon's Final Breath. ah well

 

[Quiztar]

MPQ editors are 3rd party apps

Everything except the World Map Editor by Blizzard is a third party application and until Blizzard can make a standard it is my firm belief that people should stand by their work by backing up their maps and making webpages of their own with their maps on them and uploading them to sites like Darky's unprotected so that if someone out there changes it you can always rehost your own version and have fun. The whole point of gaming is to let everyone have a learning fun filled experience in the game. Most times when people try to edit something here or there and they don't know what they are doing they will bonk up a map anyhow. Read the map faq, it says to put your name in your map several places and over time in it and near the end so that a quick redo like you all are suggesting suck so bad out there can be seen right through and someone can contac you for the original after someone changes it. Putting in protections of any kinds keeps all of the people like me who are honest out there from even being able to open the map to see who you are to find out more about the map. You can't always write down author information as quickly as a game takes to load. Be reasonable.

 

[c3o]

Re: MPQ editors are 3rd party apps

I think protecting a map is good for 2 main reasons;

A: Some, some, maybe a scratch of all people who play on b.net, think they have made the greatest map ever by editing their favorite hero to "suddenly" do 10000+ damage and 1000000 bonus gold to that player.
And, B:
I played some mauls long ago. Wintermaul is, as probebly everyone knows, unprotected. And I have over 150 versions of it in my maps folder. But Towers Wars, which I play 2-3 times per day and is protected I only got 8 copies of, one for each new version (1.0-1.8).

And now some math, a maul takes around 125k hardware space. And 150 maps = around 45 mins extra download time for a 56k modem user. And it's boring to wait so long. But Tower Wars you only need to download one time couse noone can change it to a new version.

I also protect my maps to hide secrets (certain destructibles with loot etc.). But I include my email in my maps and if someone is intelligent enough to mail me and ask for any code I can send them what they want.

 

[Quiztar]

Maps are like cookies. You save the best in a new spot.

This was my simple solution to those issues of people slightly changing maps when the changes weren't worth it, I didn't save them into a separate folder from my downloaded maps folder which is the default folder the Warcraft 3 uses to put maps when you are not hosting. Then when you want to host a map you host out of a separate folder you go up and out to another folder like favorite maps you might create and copy maps there which are worth saving.

Maps which are protected hurt the game itself as a whole because players have no way of learning from all of the elements in the mapmaking process. When someone visits a website like this one and sees all of the skins and tools which can be incorporated, if there is no one available to provide tutorials on how to do it with maps unprotected available like on other sites like Sky-Fury's hero arena tutorial which I was able to find back when I got started last year, people may never get that start they need.

Map protection should be banned because of the ability of mapmakers to host their own maps on protected web sites like this one where the originals may be found in their "pristine" format. People who make slight modifications to maps would be seen as the shams they are, if someone is able to reach an author of a map and get valuable insight into how their map ticks, for which the contact information is often more readily found in the source triggers rather than by playing the map then the overall gaming experience is improved for everyone.

Maps like tides of blood, sure they even have their own website with forums and all and many versions they host, but why they can't provide a tutorial map which would give players the ability to work with a version of their map is really beyond me. The selfishness and pure greed of mapmakers these days is really astounding. I always leave my maps completely unprotected and don't care if anyone wants to do whatever with them. It's the internet man, I am not out to make money on Blizzard's games.

 

[ccjx]

Re: Maps are like cookies. You save the best in a new spot.

Blizzard breaks map protections quite often when they do battle.net updates. They do this just for the reason I indicated. People don't want heavily encrypted maps on battle.net because map hackers use them to try to thwart blizzard and others use them to just plain keep newer map makers from learning the tools of the trade.

From that paragraph I can already conclude that you have no knowledge of map-protection but I will not attempt to explain it to you because you are a cup which is so full of itself that it cannot accept any more wisdom from others.

I totally agree with "c3o". In fact, when I design maps, I protect them as well. It is not because I don't want others to learn from my maps, but because I do not want 20 versions of my maps being posted on Battle.net. If people e-mail me for the game source of a certain part or feature I will surely allow him to have it. But please note, a certain feature, not the whole map. What's the point of getting the whole map?

Think that map protection is bad? Think about these few examples. How many versions of Life of a peasant are present? How many versions of Defence of The Ancients are present? How many versions of Maul TDs are present (I recognize Wintermaul as the one and only original maul). And the best one, how many versions of Footman Wars do you have? Many times, you join a game which goes "No newbies" only to get booted out because you have a different version of the map.

Additionally, many map-kiddies (newbie mappers) love to "mod" maps. They claim to "balance" or to "add features" to current maps and claim credit. This causes something which I call "conflict of strategy" where the strategy which once worked will not work.

Another problem caused is the "version number inconsistency." For example, the original creator makes version 1, then version 2. But some smart-assed map-kiddie decides to make a version 2.5 by editing version 1. How will the general public be able to know which version is the latest one?

Think about other protected maps. How many versions of Vampire Hunters do you have? How about the original Tower Wars? How about those protected generic RPGs? You have only 2-3 versions of it and they are from the same author. Why? This is what I call "quality control". I wouldn't want an eleven-year-old to start modding my map and claiming that it's his/hers.

Quiztar, from your tone, I feel that you are very immature. No doubt, it's fine with everyone if you are leaving your maps unprotected, but not everyone loves the fact that everyone can edit his/her map so we protect our maps.

The selfishness and pure greed of mapmakers these days is really astounding.

Please remember the fact that some map-makers are still leaving their maps unprotected so please do not over-generalize.

Additionally, if you are the "map-maker" you claim that you are, you should already have understood how map protection works and have defeated it already by now. Most people who understand mapping well understand map-protection as well. Every single type of protection is able to be reversed, fyi.

Conclusion,
Map not protected = "mods", rigged stuff, a thousand versions, plagiarism.
Map protected = Quality versions, correct credits to the right people.

I appeal to all quality map-makers reading this post to protect your maps and release only parts of it which contain the special features for others to learn. Trust me, you will feel more encouraged to continue updating the map if you do not see 10000 versions of it on Battle.Net.

Peace.