Magic the gathering

[weuser]

Check it out.

Is this possible/worthwhile to make? Anyone want to help/make one of their own?

 

[AyeKantSpel]

To my knowledge there already is one out, which can be found in the maps section.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...c-1-52-a-81611/?prev=search=Magic&d=list&r=20

But there's nothing to say you can't make your own, last time I played on battle.net, MTG was pretty popular in the sea of dotas, I think it'd be fun to make one, if nothing else.

 

[weuser]

You probably didn't open the map I attached because this one is nothing like that one (as far as I know from looking for a Magic-themed one a few days ago, finding the one you just shared, playing it, realizing it's not much like the real Magic, and then making a test map [the one I attached]).

Thanks for the reply, though. Let me know your thoughts.

Edit: I shouldn't say "nothing like"... It's something like it... but also very different.

 

[AyeKantSpel]

I played the old one and it was basically spam cards/creeps and win if I remember right, that was years ago though, correct me if I'm wrong, are you wanting to make it more spell/ability based?

 

[weuser]

That's what I found, too.

This one aims to be more turn based, more strategy-based (less spam-based), slower (like real Magic)... pretty much just more like the real Magic

You can't tell much from the map I posted--or maybe you can if you use your imagination--but just picture the real game being played on a map similar to the one I posted.

 

[AyeKantSpel]

Oh okay, I gotcha, I never was chanced with the opportunity to play the real Magic, but if it's like any TCG I know it can be lengthy, but I also (somewhat vaguely) remember that you had to play your cards carefully.

 

[kakemannen]

"like real magic". lol'd.
anyhow. nice idea

 

[Arcmage]

I think this would be very difficult to do as the real mtg rules are very complex (Do you really want to program in the stack?). Also there are several programs that allow you to play full real mtg on the internet for free already. If you want to do a Mtg map I suggest you make it stylized somehow rather than just trying to accurately model the original.

 

[PurplePoot]

I toyed with the idea for a while but then figured it would just be a shitty version of MWS and would take a ton of work. It just doesn't seem suited for the wc3 engine in general.

 

[weuser]

Thanks for the opinions, all.

What if there weren't interrupts? Then the stack would be unnecessary, right?

I figure you can simulate game steps (beginning phase, attacking phase, etc.) by hero (player) movement through some small regions. Or buttons or text messages... Many ways to do it...

I don't think it'd be too complicated to bring in many of the rules (if not all of them). Maybe that's what you meant by stylized, though, Arcmage.

How about....

1. Triggers for "drawing" from "deck" (unseeable section of map) each turn.
2. Region triggers for tapping mana (wisps in my map) and thereby paying for creatures in your "hand" (an area of the map).
3. Region triggers for advancing to attacking phase.
4. Attack once then return trigger system for attacking creatures.
5. Creatures fighting each other if a creature is assigned to block (if a creature is assigned to a certain region)
6. Instant move triggers for graveyarding.
7. Triggers spells

Most of all of this could be done with the map areas I've already made, basically.

 

[ThaAthael]

Have you read any of the magic the gathering novels?
Depending on whether you read some of the oldest ones or some of the newer, you have the possibility to go for different approaches... the newer ones describe magic closer to the tcg, the older books use magic itself as a hard to grasp thing.... being pretty uncertain and such..
About having a spellbook, I have a suggestion: why not give your heroes the Spellbook ability and adding each turn a new ability (reflecting drawing cards ).
Depending on whether you want your players being able to have only one or more colours in their deck you could modify the 'magician's mana (current as well as max) each round.
I don't know how close you want to become to the card game or how much you want to catch the intended feeling, though

 

[weuser]

Yup, good ideas, ThaAthael.

I think I'll use your mana idea like this: you draw a wisp (that's a mana), you put it into play (move it to the mana section of the "table"), you "tap" it (move it to a subsection of the mana section of the table), the hero gets more 1 more mana, the creature "card" the player wants to play is moved into a certain section, the hero can then play a spell which allows him to use his mana to play creature (unfreeze the creature and send it to the table).

Only problem is, this wouldn't allow for different colors of mana. My previous idea would have (it's basically the same as above but just cut out the hero; it's all done through wisp moving).

I've never read any of the novels.

Spellbook is a good idea and that's what I was thinking, too.

 

[ThaAthael]

As for the mana part: How about using the multiboard as a reference? You can add symbols and text into a multiboard, just make 1 line for each player and 1symbol + text per mana colour (+colourless) to show how many mana of what a player may use this turn... whenever a player wants to play a spell, open a dialog box where he's asked to use mana (and may decide which one) to use for the spell.. just another random thought, may or may not be good. Just trying to keep ideas flwing a bit (so don't worry when I post contradicting stuff, it's just to give you more to choose from, not a coherent system).

 

[weuser]

another good idea, i'm sure--though I don't know what a multi board is

would you like to begin to discuss this project in a more systematic way? like, we could more start out from the idea of trying to totally replicate the game and discuss the components of the game and how we would replicate each component

for example:

magic has these components
1. multiple players
2. life system
3. chance system (drawing from deck)
4. attack system
blah blah

then we start discussing the specifics of how these systems work, and how we might replicate them in world editor

(might benefit from a new post in which to discuss this stuff with more people)

 

[ThaAthael]

You got a point there.
1)&2) Multiple Players:
-why not create a wizard for each player that represents him - with the model's current life being your life count.
-> So each wizard is clearly seperatable (and by choosing the hero from a tavern at the beginning of the game you could determine which deck a player plays).
Also makes damage spells easy to use as you choose the target (caster) and you're happy
3)When a player has an ability in his spellbook that allows him to draw cards, you could check what slots in an array (the 'deck') are still free and pick a random one that will add that spell to the currently available ones.
4) Attack system: Units are paused until a player declares an attack and blocks are done. Now, those units are removed from player control, get via trigger a 'attack unit once' order and are unpaused; moving to the targets they shall deal damage, then moving back to their position if still alive.
Or, when a wizard (player) is attacked, that wizard gets a casting animation so that it looks as if the unit is teleported back to another part of the map (I'd suggest a scenic battlefield for this rather than a true differentiation into different zones.. is not 100% accurate, but will give a much better feeling, seperating it from just being copy/paste mtg card game into a limited version with some graphics). For dead units, there could be a targetable dummy be created - when a player plays 'zombify' on that pillar, he gains that unit again or something like that.. Could be more interesting than just putting units from 1 area to another - oh, and while at it: tapped units could simply be set to sleep =)

 

[Dr Super Good]

Due to the varying nature of the game's cards, you would need to design a highly flexible engine to run it and then have unique code components for virtually every card.

It is possible but not easy to do. I would certainly not advise using GUI for it.

A lot of observer observable style interactions would be needed (aka events) for the card effects. Additionally you might need to seek professional (someone skilled with mtg) help for certain cards as I think some of them may be ambiguious (the problem specification is faulty).

My advise is firstly start with the engine.
Then move onto the graphics (trigger interaction with the map)
Finally work on adding the thousands of cards that I believe mtg now has.

 

[Arcmage]

The offical mtg rulebook is here http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/rules Take a look at the simplified rulebook. Its like 30 pages long. The comprehensive one is much much longer. Do you really want to program all that stuff? I think an rpg or rts based on MTG lore would be much more interesting than trying to recreate the card game.

edit: btw there are over 2,000 MTG cards so I somehow doubt you would want to add even a small fraction of that or even that you could fit it into 8 MB

 

[weuser]

1. Good stuff, ThaAthael. For some reason I was thinking Life couldn't actually be player hit points (but I can't remember why now). I was instead thinking about using a skill called life and having the level be the number of life. But hit points would probably work. (I just don't know how to solve some problems so I try to find a way around; sometimes this leads to seemingly weird solutions like this one about skill level as life.)

2. I've read the rules. And, yes, they are complicated WHEN you have to account for the actions of every particular card and type of card and every wrinkle in the rules. We don't have to, though. We should start from trying to make it like the real game--but be opening to making changes where it is simply easier (or more fun) to do so.

3. I'm not sure that we need specific slots in the hand--but this might be useful for spells that allow the other player to look at only one card.

4. Scenic battlefield might be better, yes. Just that we have to make sure that it's clear where to put creatures if you do want them attacking, blocking, etc. (if we make it region trigger-based), and don't forget making sure that one attacking creature attacks the creature blocking it--and not the opponent player--if it's being blocked.

5. If people haven't looked at the map I posted in the first post they should (there's not much there...but there is much there in implication.

 

[PurplePoot]

You'd need to remove all instants, interrupts, and activated abilities that can be played at any time (ie that don't have to be played as a sorcery) if you wanted to drop the stack. You'd basically be left with something like Portal/Starter.

 

[weuser]

Or you could allow instants and just let people play them when they click the spell (no waiting for stack)

Or you could make a timed cast that told the other person what was about to happen and enabled them to do something to prevent it (though, this would really mean having a different kind of stack and NOT dropping the stack)

be creative!