Lords of Europe- need help to improve

[Corristo]

Hi guys!

I'm new around here,just registered recently.

Some players from eurobattlenet told me to ask for help on this forum.I don't know if I write to the right place,or into the right thread,but I'm gonna give it a try.

I hope that some of you can help us.

So,shortly.My IGN is Corristo,i usually play Lords of Europe 2.1 official version.

With the help of ENT bot hosting,we could bring that map back alive!
We managed to get like 30+ players into a skype room,and we play it every day.We love that map very much,but since it's old,it needs to be improved.
We have a lot of ideas,but sincerely,we lack the skill and knowledge to do it.

One of our members (Rd_cryton) managed to break up the official 2.1 version of that map,but all we could do was to rename some city and king names.
The rest needs some serious knowledge of coding,which we don't have...

I know there are newers versions of that map,but we stick to the 2.1,and since we are hard pro's in it (we really are ) ,we would like to implement our ideas,and make an almost perfectly balanced and re-edited Lords of Europe map.

So I'm here to ask for your help.
If any of you guys are really professional in mapmaking and modding,could you plz help some poor guys improve a map,to have more fun?
I can give you the map we play right now,and I can make a so-called whish-list what we would like to change in it.

I don't have any questions about any specificated stuff,since I don't know anything at all about coding.

If any of you reads this,and interested in helping us,plz add me at skype:
ID: robert_ninacs
Maybe it will be a challange for you also!

Sorry for the long thread,I wish you all to have fun!

Corristo

 

[Bannar]

One of our members (Rd_cryton) managed to break up the official 2.1 version of that map,but all we could do was to rename some city and king names.

Our conversation ends here.
One of your friends managed to "break" aka steal the map? Without permission of one of map's editors you will get little to no help here.

Hive does not support piracy (at least officialy) and probably never will. Each resource, redarless if it's map, skin or model requires appropriate agreement for others to modify it.

If I missunderstood you, accept my apologies. Although, providing permission would be more than welcome. If I'm not, however, I'll ask mod to close this thread shortly.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Ask the original author for the latest version and use that. Unless he is a really... not nice guy or is still working on the map he should have no problems giving you a version to mess with.

How do you know your ideas will be balanced if you have little idea about mapping?

 

[Corristo]

Hi.
Thanks for your response.

The map was of course sealed.The original authors protects what theirs. We wanted to ask for permission,but there is no way we can get in contact with the autors of that map.
If you know any of them plz let me know,so I can ask for permission.They didn't leave any note or adress where i can find them...

They are:

stricken_2 (we use his 2.1 edition) , Debei (made the terrain), nth.nemesis , nth.Yunyun, both are mapmakers making new changes and their marks are also on the map.

Yes,we tried to brake,but with no succes since its protected with password and cannot be edited with the editor.We cant edit it even know.

To answer your question Dr.super good:
We have many ideas that would balance the gameplay.As I said,we play it every day,we know its weaknesses and bugs which should be solved. Like techtree modding,nerfing some units statistics,putting some elites into an other age then it is now,adding more citys to speficifical locations to balance the chances of all nations.Reducing costs of some units.Stuff like that,which will make it more balanced.

This map is a strategic game,like a mix of Risk and Age of empires 2.Take citys for income,make army,go to next age to make better army.Use diplomacy etc.
However,we don't have the knowledge to do that.That's why I asked for your help.

It's a really nice game,but as i said many times,it's not perfect,we just want to improve it.

We didn't meant to steal,or to insult the original authors...Simply I don't know how to get in contact with them.I would gladly ask for their help,if i could.But it seems they are not interested in this map anymore.

 

[sethmachine]

There is saying that comes to mind about how to judge the worth of an author's work. Essentially it comes from a famous Russian author who is very critical of Shakespeare, claiming that his work is terrible. An American author rebuts the Russian, saying that in the end the only way to judge whether an author is good is if their work has not been forgotten and has outlived them.

I mention this because if the original mapmakers abandoned the map it may be a sign that you should move on.

Your best bet, if you were really crazy about the map, would be to remake it yourself.

Otherwise you could find similar games. Broken Alliances comes to mind as perhaps the most popular WC3 custom map strategy game, boasting its own dedicated forums/site. Even the hosted projects on the Hive don't have this big of a fan base to warrant their own website.

See: http://brokenalliances.com/forum.php

Or you could just deal with how it is and keep playing.

 

[Bannar]

Don't get me wrong, but DSG probably meant that you lack knowledge of how to modify that map, not the knowledge of actuall possible balance ideas.

Anyway, I like the map, I have been playing it a lot about 6 years ago, or more. Magnataur "knights" were op, won most of games with them

 

[Corristo]

Bannar is right,I lack the knowledge of how to modify,not of balancing ideas.

The map is playable as it is,but with some improvements it can be even better.When a lot of players telling you this,everybody can't be wrong.

Of course if the original authors won't agree to that,i will leave it as it is.But I don't see why shouldn't they make it even better.
I would absolutely will be oke with idea that they improve it using our ideas,and then seal it off again.

 

[Xonok]

How willing are you to make a good map?
Do you specifically want to improve this strategy map or can you handle other genres too?
What skills do you have aside from knowing the ins and outs of this map?

If you truly want to work on something good and make the mapping scene better, then you're very welcome to help anywhere.

 

[Corristo]

Xonok:

I would specifically would like to improve only that map. I'm a pro player of it,I know every value and statistics of all units and buildings.Costs and tech tree also for everything.

I know what changes should be done to make it better balanced.
Just a few ideas for example:

-greek elite units (huskarls-their names should be also changed to Hoplites) are too OP to be accesed from the Dark age.It has evasion and critical strike skill,with a very high armor.Comparing to the other nations same-age units its OP.Nobody can face 5 or 10 huskarls at the beginning.
My advice is to make them avaible only from Feudal age or even better from castle age.Of course this needs to be tested like everything before releasing in it's final form.I have some other pro friends,who would help me test it.

-Heavy cavalry units can be trained only after you reach Imperial age .but for a very high cost (450 gold). This should be reduced to 300-280. Comparing with Frankish Knights costs 236 gold its very expensive.Also needs to be tested.

-Muslim towers are less powerfull then the christian towers.Should be fixed.

-Nerf the marksman towers dmg,hp,and armor in the powder age.

-I renamed a lot of citys and king's names already,but some towns has the same code.So if I change the name for one,it changed for both of them.It looks stupid when I renamed a town in germany for Mecklensburg,and the town in norway which should be Oslo has the same name.I think it needs a separated line of code for both,to be fixed and renamed correctly.

-Some nations like Liban or Turkey has a big dissadvantage becouse they have less citys in the surrounding to be taken.should be added 2 more towns for each in their surrounding region.
Same stays for Kievan Russ (+1 town at least),Byzantine Empire (+1 ).
Comparing to France which got 7 to 10 towns in his close surrounding it's not even much.
Italy got 6,spain 6 and germany 6 again.Those have a very big advantage of income at start.


-Heavy Knights have bash,but the chance of bashing must be reduced to 5% instead of 10%.When you focus on a king in late game,he cant escape from 12 heavy knights bashing him all the time.

-Italy's elite unit should be changed to Italian Pikeman instead of Christian healer.

-General pikeman models also should be changed.I saw once in a version a very nice Spearman model unit.it would be nice to see them here as well. (i think it was 3.0)

-English special units (longbowmans) are also OP.It must be put into Castle age,or nerf it.We are still arguing about that,couse infantry's can use activated shield to counter them.But even with that,many player only masses archers when playing england,and they own in Dark and Feudal age without any problem.Only castle age ballistas and stronger infantrys can counter them.

Those for the fixes in mayor.As i said,everything must be tested,and modified accordingly to be balanced when u play any nation.

Now for some new ideas which I heard from others,and also mines.

-A good mapmaker can make the map more detailed.For example more trees,brushes flowers.
-Some new islands with citys on them could trigger more naval battles.At the moment ,for example ,almost everybody stick to the ground battles,only a few use ships.
For example new islands with towns could be created on Corsica,Balear Islands,Malta.
Two islands on the black sea,and many others on the Atlantic ocean.
-Adding more neutrals defending the free towns.That should be done accordingly to every nation,so nobody would have advantage of more unguarded city then others.

I would have some more ideas,but i think those are the most important ones.

Please let me know if you find them usefull,or interested in helping in it

And I ask you again,if any of you know how can I reach nth]Yunyun, Debei ,nth]Nemesis, or stricken_2 plz let me know.

 

[Xonok]

You are pretty much asking to maintain the map. I hope you get in contact with the previous ones somehow.