[Strategy / Risk] Lordaeron: the Aftermath

[Koganesaga]

There's no mystery here, it's a common, well known, and already reported bug. It happens sometimes to the bug infested silverhand, where even with all heroes dead silverhand stays silverhand, locking them in to a dead faction effectively ending his game. The cause is at this point unclear, the only thing that can be said for certain is that the longer the game goes the more likely it is to happen, but if you force yourself to turn at the 20 min mark when argent becomes available it can be avoided (or at least I've never seen it that early). This occurs in all versions, hacked and official, which goes to show those hacked versions are complete crap if they don't even fix a crippling error.

 

[Holymind]

New Ajzol-Nerub.

 

[Go'el]

[IMAGE]

New Ajzol-Nerub.

.....why have you done this?

 

[StormWarriors2]

.....why have you done this?

I think it is awesome.

But I have no idea why it is there.

 

[Holymind]

New units.

 

[PlankingWolf]

What I'm planning to do is entail three core modes that are choose able at the start, might narrow it down to two though; we'll see.
Roleplay would feature completely freeform alliances, name changes and etc; so people can be content to their hearts desire. Lore based will have historical alliances/factions/heroes and names.

Good versus evil will most likely be: Forsaken, Legion, Scourge, COTD, Dragonmaw Clan, Dark Horde

vs

Alliance factions, Horde and Trolls. Obviously trolls are more evil than good but for the sake of balance that is how it must be.

I just love you more now. Thanks, man.

 

[Koganesaga]

New units.

Again while the sediment is honest and good, why make the map unnecessarily larger with beautification? It's not like there's anything wrong with the WC3 models Marsh is using. Also why would marsh need a bear model? Gonna mount yellow's men?

 

[Holymind]

.....why have you done this?

I didn't make these models

 

[Holymind]

Again while the sediment is honest and good, why make the map unnecessarily larger with beautification? It's not like there's anything wrong with the WC3 models Marsh is using. Also why would marsh need a bear model? Gonna mount yellow's men?

I'm not telling Marsh to use these models. I'm just trying to inspire make makers to use more and prettier models which will truly add sparks to their maps.

 

[Holymind]

Also the name Aftermath reminds of players zombie maps and "Lordaeron" reminds players of the human race which is not that interesting. This is becoming a big problem because we hardly get any players joining our games.

 

[Goblinkingsp]

There's no mystery here, it's a common, well known, and already reported bug. It happens sometimes to the bug infested silverhand, where even with all heroes dead silverhand stays silverhand, locking them in to a dead faction effectively ending his game. The cause is at this point unclear, the only thing that can be said for certain is that the longer the game goes the more likely it is to happen, but if you force yourself to turn at the 20 min mark when argent becomes available it can be avoided (or at least I've never seen it that early). This occurs in all versions, hacked and official, which goes to show those hacked versions are complete crap if they don't even fix a crippling error.

Do not fear, as your hero is here! I've been looking into what I'd call several game breaking bugs to fix for the next version. Obviously at best this will be completely patched and fixed by the next version; at worst it will require a complete reworking of triggers.

I'm not telling Marsh to use these models. I'm just trying to inspire make makers to use more and prettier models which will truly add sparks to their maps.

Models really don't add much content or actual game play to a map which should be valued above all else. With larger maps such as LTA, Azeroth Wars, and other RTS actual triggers/units take up a fair amount of space. At some point there is a limit to the amount of custom content you can add to a map. Especially in the case of the models you posted which most likely are high quality and take up additional space which simply is available in all maps.

Edit: For good measure, if you have any truly game breaking or pressing complaints it would be best to send them to me atm as I'm working on triggering and redoing things at this moment.

 

[Acadian]

models arent important as gameplay and triggers and stuff for sure, but models add to the enjoyment of playing your faction. No one likes to have their best hero look like a generic garbage unit.
I think if ur gonna add models only do it for certain heroes that as they are arent doing justice to their epicness.
or dont at all if there aint enough space meh ; /

 

[Holymind]

There's an ashbringer mod also

 

[StormWarriors2]

:/

Okay stop with the models requesting. You do not need more models to make a game better. The mods do not add anything! I understand you are just trying to help. But you need to stop spamming on the forum about it.

Better graphics do not make a game better.

It is all based on mechanics.

If the graphics work against the game and its mechanics then you implement better graphics.

In this case you do not need better models and textures to make this game better.

It needs more improvements yes. But not to its models or its textures.

I've studied game design for a couple of years and I have yet to see a game that requires better graphics. Let me reiterate: This custom game lacks nothing in terms of textures or anything interesting. This game is great. And you should just ignore the fact of graphics. For why else would people play Minecraft? Why would I sit down and play duke nukeum the older version? Why would I play Diablo 1 and still love it? Why would I play any old game?

It is because I love those games for its mechanics and its storylines, and its characters.

I Do not think this game lacks models and textures. And anymore would ruin the game and its functionality, the triggers will add enough space and problems to the game itself. They do not need anymore problems with this map. They are fixing enough things, I do not want to add to their workload for such a fantastic map. The only complaint I have! Is.... Stratholme, but that is a common consensus....

Anyway. I hope I have spoken for the team on that. I may not be an official spokesman.

 

[Holymind]

:/

Okay stop with the models requesting. You do not need more models to make a game better. The mods do not add anything! I understand you are just trying to help. But you need to stop spamming on the forum about it.

Better graphics do not make a game better.

It is all based on mechanics.

If the graphics work against the game and its mechanics then you implement better graphics.

In this case you do not need better models and textures to make this game better.

It needs more improvements yes. But not to its models or its textures.

I've studied game design for a couple of years and I have yet to see a game that requires better graphics. Let me reiterate: This custom game lacks nothing in terms of textures or anything interesting. This game is great. And you should just ignore the fact of graphics. For why else would people play Minecraft? Why would I sit down and play duke nukeum the older version? Why would I play Diablo 1 and still love it? Why would I play any old game?

It is because I love those games for its mechanics and its storylines, and its characters.

I Do not think this game lacks models and textures. And anymore would ruin the game and its functionality, the triggers will add enough space and problems to the game itself. They do not need anymore problems with this map. They are fixing enough things, I do not want to add to their workload for such a fantastic map. The only complaint I have! Is.... Stratholme, but that is a common consensus....

Anyway. I hope I have spoken for the team on that. I may not be an official spokesman.

If graphics adds nothing, then why is successful gaming companies upgrading their graphics in each and every series of their games.

 

[StormWarriors2]

If graphics adds nothing, then why is successful gaming companies upgrading their graphics in each and every series of their games.

Ahem. Minecraft, angry birds, BROWSING GAMES, Puzzle games, Flappy Bird, Boredom, Song of Saya, Spec Ops: The Line, DOTA 2, League of Legends to just name a few.

The average gamer is a browsing gamer, not the hardcore player.

Anyway this is completely off-topic!

Anyway. I can't wait for RP mode my RPing group cannot wait!

 

[Koganesaga]

It seems at lvl 2 for some reason alex's undead sacrifice moves doesn't work.

 

[StormWarriors2]

It seems at lvl 2 for some reason alex's undead sacrifice moves doesn't work.

You Mean Mograine The Ashbringer?

If so dang my brain farted.

This is a very powerful character. I feel like he should have a summon.


Also I was playing as teal again. (Man I love the legion, They are just too much fun. I mean I just teleport in with an army of voidwalkers and nether hatchlings. Balnazzar once he is level 16 is just funny as helk. I killed deathwing with him.

anyway I got the book of medivh after absorbing the sunwell. The entire game crashes after I summoned the Legion. Its kind of funny. But kind of bad. Either the game knows I have won, or the game really hates the idea of an overpowered Balnazzar and a Kil'Jaden.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

"Oh and yes there is a limb missing in Azjol Nerub and Cult cant make Tartek"

 

[Marshmalo]

Regarding models, there is already TONS of costum models and skins in the map. There are even some wow models but these are non animated doodads.

I've played Fall of Lordaeron where they've packed loads of wow models in and it just looks a terrible mess to me.

Theres nothing wrong with the WC3 generic models, there's no point in adding wow models just to replace existing generic wc3 models.

Remember the map is already 7mb out of a max size of 8mb.

"Oh and yes there is a limb missing in Azjol Nerub and Cult cant make Tartek"

I'm not sure how this item was deleted, but me or goblinkingsp an look into it.

anyway I got the book of medivh after absorbing the sunwell. The entire game crashes after I summoned the Legion. Its kind of funny. But kind of bad. Either the game knows I have won, or the game really hates the idea of an overpowered Balnazzar and a Kil'Jaden.

Did this crash happen once or does this happen everytime you summon? I've seen people summon before and game hasnt crashed yet.

It seems at lvl 2 for some reason alex's undead sacrifice moves doesn't work.

Gobling could you have a look into this ability bug please?

 

[Koganesaga]

Also as a balance change, if Scarlet goes risen, you should remove Bal's ability to summon. People have found this trick easy to exploit; either teal or lb gets their hands on the book, teal kills bal, lb goes scarlet then risen, risen bal is at or close to 10, and upon reaching 10 he gets the book and summons. This doesn't sound too bad by itself, but it's when they rush this it becomes a problem. If they decide to do this, legion is summoned before the 15 min mark which results in teal sweeping from either people not willing to deal with it or those who got crushed because all their allies left. Combined with the fact that unless someone sank the essence there's a 2/3 chance that teal will also drain the sunwell, makes it game over soon as it happens which makes me sad.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

"Remember the map is already 7mb out of a max size of 8mb."

If you don't mind super-visually epic models being reduced a little, I might have the ability to save you some map filesize.

I don't need your map if your scared of theft, just all the models and textures you want reduced in size in a folder in a zip file or some achieve.

 

[Marshmalo]

Hmmm thats pretty impressive if someone managed to get a level 10 hero in first 15 minutes game time? And the summoning ritual alone takes 3 minutes.

I am very reluctant to take out things like this as they make playing these mini factions like Risen more fun.

Risen needs some more work to make the faction more playable and unique

The essence shouldnt be sinkable anymore, I thought I applied the same anti sinking triggers to that item as I did the book but I could be wrong.

Anyway. I can't wait for RP mode my RPing group cannot wait!

Yes it will be interesting to see what GoblinkingSP comes up with for RP mode

He is currently working on the map.


On another note as people keep mentioning Strathholm I'll see if I can spruce that city up more before next release.

 

[Koganesaga]

It's not that hard if you power lvl that one hero, also did you forget you give a pretty decent exp boost to bal for going risen?

I'll get a replay to make my point.

 

[Marshmalo]

It's not that hard if you power lvl that one hero, also did you forget you give a pretty decent exp boost to bal for going risen?

I'll get a replay to make my point.

I realised once I had written that I had forgotten about Balnazzars bonus xp. Yes I see now.

This is a good excuse to rework Risen, as I said they currently don't work at all, there is nothing fun or unique about how the army works.
Heres some changes I will include to give Risen more of a unique and interesting army style:


RISEN CHANGES

-Risen units will become "undying" allowing them to re-raise themselves as dead again.
-Balnazzar will no longer get the xp bonus but instead gets a new unique ability as Risen.
-Risen Army will all be skeletal or Zombies.
-Risen Necromancers able to permanently summon lesser Risen units.
-Army weakness will be a weakness to magic as all units will have summoned armour type.
-Possibly new elite unit type? Any ideas? Otherwise Ill just keep them as death knights.
-Possibly Mal'Ganis as bonus hero for Risen?

PS: For those who were unaware, Risen faction can be obtained by going Scarlet Crusade but ONLY if Balnazzar is killed and forced into hiding.

 

[Go'el]

The elitw unis tou could use Skeletons Knitghs, the are some models like that in Hive

 

[StormWarriors2]

Well it always happened to me. It always happened like this.

Destroyed sunwell
Found Book of Medivh
Deathwing is summoned
Balnazzar summons legion at sunwell.
game Crashes

 

[amhesa]

remove the -ally think its just idiot shit people keep mass ally last 10 game i played is people massing ally. this make me really hate the map .or at least make max of ally you can get

 

[Anubis24]

remove the -ally think its just idiot shit people keep mass ally last 10 game i played is people massing ally. this make me really hate the map .or at least make max of ally you can get

Shut up Amhesa, you map-hacking scrub. You're the reason why 1.15c and 1.15f exist, because you keep making hacked versions of Marsh's maps. You pulled the same crap with Azeroth Wars years ago.

 

[Holymind]

Shut up Amhesa, you map-hacking scrub. You're the reason why 1.15c and 1.15f exist, because you keep making hacked versions of Marsh's maps. You pulled the same crap with Azeroth Wars years ago.

Kadoe is Amhesa on ent.

 

[Koganesaga]

First off people again, this is about the map, please don't rage here, regardless of what they might be doing.

Second, I have an idea for risen elite and how to throw Mal'ganis in there (as it's hard to think of other heroes).

To begin, no death knights, no faction should have to share elites. Instead I purpose the Risen Templar. This would be a very strong frontline unit to reflect their strength in life. For abilities how about a damage reduction, a bash and possibly a death coil. It sounds kinda powerful and it is, but this is just spitballing, you can choose different abilities I just think Risen Templar as a unit sounds badass.

Now Mal'ganis could be impimented by traveling to that scarlet island somewhere around northrend (hopefully someone knows what the hell it's called). There the player will find Admiral Barean Westwind and High General Bridgette Abenddis. The player must kill Abbendis, and then Barean dies, but Mal'ganis rises from his corpse and joins the Risen. Abenddis would be fairly tough to kill, like Malygos but landbound. If you want added challange you could give her a platoon of Scarlet Templars (you could make the quest a double whammy, get Mal'ganis and unlock his elite unit saying that his elites come from the dead of the last and strongest of the Scarlet).

 

[Yousef]

New Hearthglen, it's in Dragonblight, that is what you mean, right?
And I want to suggest a new event for the Scarlet Crusade (not Risen), If he lost Tyr's Hand and Marden's Hold Keep, the player will get New Hearthglen.

 

[Spinel]

New Hearthglen, it's in Dragonblight, that is what you mean, right?
And I want to suggest a new event for the Scarlet Crusade (not Risen), If he lost Tyr's Hand and Marden's Hold Keep, the player will get New Hearthglen.

Yeah i wrote it here before but they dont want to change curent status. :-(

 

[Koganesaga]

New Hearthglen, it's in Dragonblight, that is what you mean, right?

No not new hearthglen, there was an island you got to during an event but it's been so long I don't remember where it was or how the player even got there, but it was a small isolated island with Abenddis on it.

Edit: Found it, Scarlet Harbor. This is the place where Abenddis was killed and where apparently Barean resides all the time.

Edit 2: I found a new hero that could be potentially used; High Abbot Landgren. It seems he would blindly obey any orders from Barean and was brought back to life by him. Judging by from what I can find he would be something like Kel'thuzard, as the only way to prevent his return was actually killing his spirit (lore). He's also super fanatical, and even if you chose not to use his human form, turning into some sort of risen caster wouldn't be too far from impossible, as there is a chance this could have happened had his spirit not been destroyed.

 

[Anubis24]

Kadoe is Amhesa on ent.

What a retarded thing to say. I happen to know Kadoe IRL. He is NOT Amhesa.
Amhesa is "Amhesa" on Ent, and if you really want to know, just do a !from, Amhesa is from Kuwait, and likely the only person from that country who plays Warcraft 3 on battle.net

 

[Goblinkingsp]

remove the -ally think its just idiot shit people keep mass ally last 10 game i played is people massing ally. this make me really hate the map .or at least make max of ally you can get

To each his own opinion. In the future alliances will be restricted to role play mode only while Good vs Evil and Conquest will have fixed historical alliances. For people like you who do not like this fact, then obviously in the next version you'll have the option to play Conquest.

Well it always happened to me. It always happened like this.

Destroyed sunwell
Found Book of Medivh
Deathwing is summoned
Balnazzar summons legion at sunwell.
game Crashes

I'll look into this and see if I can find a fix.

 

[Marshmalo]

In the future alliances will be restricted to role play mode only while Good vs Evil and Conquest will have fixed historical alliances.

Errr Goblin I said earlier you were free to do what you wanted with the game modes as long as it didn't interfere with the default Conquest mode, which the game is now.

Unless your referring to conquest mode as another, fourth mode? I was refering to conquest mode as the mode the game currently is in v1.15. Can you list all the game modes your planning to implement here?

Yes I've said to Goblin he can pretty much do what ever he wants with regards to the new game modes he's creating (provided they don't interfere with the default Conquest mode).

Default mode should not be in any way changed other than bug fixes and to add the new worgen events you said you wanted to do. Sorry if I didn't make this clearer earlier on.

Kogan, I see that Onslaught Harbor base now on wow wiki, I like the idea of including this somehow, might not be in the same way you've suggested but if I get map back this weekend I'll try and terrain it

 

[NE_DA_MRTAV2]

bug report i was playing risen and i tp with balnazzar to deepholm and i summoned voidwalkers, but when the voidwalkers went through deepholm portal they died instantly

 

[StormWarriors2]

bug report i was playing risen and i tp with balnazzar to deepholm and i summoned voidwalkers, but when the voidwalkers went through deepholm portal they died instantly

Thats due to the pocket factory ability.

 

[Holymind]

What a retarded thing to say. I happen to know Kadoe IRL. He is NOT Amhesa.
Amhesa is "Amhesa" on Ent, and if you really want to know, just do a !from, Amhesa is from Kuwait, and likely the only person from that country who plays Warcraft 3 on battle.net

Kadoe is the one who keeps hosting the hacked version(1.15a) on ent. You're probably one of those who likes to cheat too.

 

[Koganesaga]

Thank you marsh, I look forward to seeing what you do with it. And I would like to push for one thing seeing how I don't care for death knights for Risen, and it would be the Risen Templars. They don't need the skillset but they still sound awesome. Also I thought of another one; 15% cleaver in a 200 range, 270 degree arch (if you can control that), damage reduction, and either immolation, thunderclap, or bloodlust.

 

[StormWarriors2]

Personally I think it would be better. If Stormguarde wasn't available until later on. Because everyone just runs that hero to his death. Or everyone just kills that base because its completely useless in the north fight. I think it would be awesome if stormguarde changed allegiance if you go Scarlet Crusade, but comes back if you go argent dawn. (So they go neutral. and the trollbane guy becomes invulnerable and gets revived and is now revivable.)

Also in RP mode are all heroes revivable? Or are they not?

 

[Acadian]

or stromeguarde could be a backup base for lb if he goes argent, so make it nuetral/invul in the begining.

 

[StormWarriors2]

or stromeguarde could be a backup base for lb if he goes argent, so make it nuetral/invul in the begining.

Good Idea. I've never used the Stromguarde base because it is a hopeless fight down there. Plus I think they are really missing their unique units.

Also are you suppose to lose blood sorceress? Because you lose alot of powerful abilities if you get rangers. What are the runed wells for? I mean it would be awesome if the Windrunner tower did something more than just look pretty as blood elves.

-Dalaran feels very powerful. So many dragons , (some of the whelps do not get upgraded so they are quite useless.)

-There is one thing you are missing Murdain is alive in WoW lore and is the Frost Dwarves in Northrend. (Maybe they have a very powerful unit that is basically a support unit?

-Is Gnomergon suppose to super powerful and almost impossible to defeat?

-Also I suggest that you make The Yellows northern base neutral.

-Teal has some funny things you can do with him.

-Red feels very weak late game as he has no dedicated casters like dalaran does nor any powerful demi-hero that can tank for him.

-Prince Galen Trollbane needs Troll'klar and he should be neutral, along with the nation of Strom Guarde, If you lose say Tyr's hand and Margehold you gain Galen Trollbane, but you city is in a state of chaos.

-Scourge, Dalaran and Twilights hammer win almost every game, these three are the most powerful out of all the playable races. This maybe because they are completed. Trisfal Agents are kind of weird survivior units. Nothing really useful about them minus the teleport.

-Scourge and Gray are great and fun to play.

-Light Blue needs some aid with that terrible bug. Now I just rush Islien to die. (Except in lore, the order is established after a certain period of time. I forgot when, I hate wow lore.)

-Garthios should be relivable for teal. (Otherwise he has no Relivable heroes)

-Red needs one more hero. (They need Blood Elf Paladins, Maybe Lady Liadrin and her blood elf paladins? Say you go in and defeat illidian or you join him. You have a possiblity of researching at silvermoon once captured establishment of the blood elf paladins? Red needs some help against Gray and Scourge. Because after they attack him, they just steam roll him.)

-Yellow, I think Yellow needs less bases, there are so many to count. Also why do they have bears. (just regular bears the anvilmar bears?), They are lacking events. In my honest opinion: Thundermar the thunderlord group isn't really useful, no real point you only gain a demi-hero, no chance.
(planning on playing pink and green, darkgreen)

-Dark Green needs something, I just can't point it out. Its just something.

 

[Koganesaga]

Forgot to mention it sooner and I know people are going to say don't do anything he's already so weak but that's some bull. So I'm going to suggest a reduction on deathwings movement speed. Give that winged bastard some boots and I believe he's at max movement speed. This means nobody except Kalecgos in dragon form with boots can even keep pace, and odds are Kalec is a bad choice to fight deathwing in a deathmatch. As stated above everyone is under the impression he's crap but I have no idea where this is coming from as he's hilariously strong; strong and large aoe reign of fire, infernal drop fire elementals, the summon is a bit underwhelming, but his ulti is death for anything in the area under 1k HP. Now considering purp needs 15 with a potentially unrevivable hero to summon this is fine, but he needs to be killable, as unless he's not paying attention or all factions ally and use their anti-air on him he's likely to get away and even then odds aren't great. My suggestion is to drop him down to maybe 250 movement or whatever slow-average is.

 

[Rui]

Is this some off-shoot of AW:LR or similar maps? The terrain looks fairly similar to something else I've seen before.

 

[JesusHipster]

Screeenshots look sexy.

 

[StormWarriors2]

Is this some off-shoot of AW:LR or similar maps? The terrain looks fairly similar to something else I've seen before.

Sorta. Its similar but not the same. Instead of being the very beginning it is basically only focused on lordaeron.

 

[Koganesaga]

Is this some off-shoot of AW:LR or similar maps? The terrain looks fairly similar to something else I've seen before.

Also I wouldn't insult the map by calling it an off-shoot. The maker to the best of my knowledge made the game from scratch. The only real similarity is the point control system. Beyond that it's much more thought-out, crazy, and generally enjoyable.
P.S. I call it an insult mostly because Azeroth Wars has fallen from it's days of glory and is now viewed by many of it's old fans as something that is more tolerated than enjoyed.

Edit: Not to rush ya marsh, but when you expecting the new release? I'm quite eager to see all the changes, not to mention less people exploiting certain bugs.

 

[StormWarriors2]

Also I wouldn't insult the map by calling it an off-shoot. The maker to the best of my knowledge made the game from scratch. The only real similarity is the point control system. Beyond that it's much more thought-out, crazy, and generally enjoyable.
P.S. I call it an insult mostly because Azeroth Wars has fallen from it's days of glory and is now viewed by many of it's old fans as something that is more tolerated than admired.

Edit: Not to rush ya marsh, but when you expecting the new release? I'm quite eager to see all the changes, not to mention less people exploiting certain bugs.

Actually i quite enjoy azeroth wars. Because every is OP so it works!