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Ideas concerning an AoS? Post em here ^^

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Level 5
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
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61
Hey all,
Well, I'm expiriencing some Problems with my Map. I just can't proceed with my current Project, because I'm lacking (Good) Ideas. Critism, Suggestions or Comments are appriciated aswell. This is what I've got so far:
Chant of the Black Birds
First off, this AoS relates to a War of opposing Factions, The Night Elves, and the Dark Elves. Both nor Good nor Evil.
Now, as for you, you must choose from 6 (The current total amount of existing Heroes ), and fight with 2 other players against 3 opponents. In other Words, a classic 3v3 Game. Unlike most AoS, there is only 1 Lane, which goes horrizontally thru the Map. Now, there are some Restrictions concerning Items. During War, the 2 Factions can't afford expensive Wepons, but they offer Recipies, with which you can build exessive Wepons. Each Player should not only go for the Main Objective in this game, which is destroying the opponents Base. The whole Map offers opportunities to hunt for Monsters, and after slaying each Monster, there is a Chance of 17% for the Monsters to drop an Item, which can be manufactured in Stronger Items by using the Recipie shop (Requirements must be fulfilled before Manufacture). Like in all AoS maps, you will recieve support by a Computer Player (In this case, regular creep Spawns).
This Game also features custom Spells. Not every Skill is Custom, but about 60% of all the Skills are Custom.
Well, I did all the Triggering, and Leak removing in GUI (gah, I wish I could use JASS properly). Any Questions will be answeared or Demands for screenies will be made on command :grin:
 
Level 5
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
61
I'm not realy going to build up on Item making. More or less, it might give you an Advantage towards your opposing team, but thats all I guess. Could realy need some Ideas on Custom Heroes and Items...
How about I exchange the Item drops in Materials? So that you won't get instant boosts... But yet again, you must compose them into Wepons by using the recipie shop...
I need your Oppinion on this =)
 
Level 31
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,306
Dude, I had started developing a major AoS project..

You could choose what spawned based on a point system. Based on the number of players on your team, you got a certain amount of points (60/#of players rounded up).

There would be strongholds scattered all about the map. There were 3 different grades to a Stronghold and these Strongholds could be upgraded to the third grade etc:

Outpost- No spawn bonus, basic defense/trap upgrades, low morale boost

Stronghold

Fortress

The game was also heavily based on morale. The more morale you had, the stronger you were. The more units in an area, the more morale you have. Each unit contributes a certain amount of morale. A lowly footmen may contribute .1 points while a Player Hero may give 1 point. There were also special Morale Boost Units. Morale was also ranged based. The closer you were to a unit, the more morale boost you got from them. The farther, the less.

Some units might have a low morale boost but a very wide range (for example heroes).

Strongholds, fortresses, and outposts also give morale boosts.

The combat system was also fully JASSed with improved AI and 100% customizable weapons. A basic weapon would do 1450 damage. This may seem like a lot to you, but based on the combat system, it was actually quite minimal.

Every unit had a certain amount of energy (mana). You need energy to move, attack, cast spells, etc. The more energy you have, the less damage you take, but the more energy you have, the more energy you lose when you get hit. It's not % based... It's exponential.

In this way, caster type characters and melee type characters are extremely separated. You can also develop a sort of assassin class character (very low hp, high agility, high mana). The more agility you have, the faster you run, but you also lose energy at a higher rate while you move.

So there were many trees developed by doing this combat system:
The Tank - High Stamina/Strength/Spirit
The Assassin - Energy/Agility with Minor Strength
The Caster - Energy with Spirit

No classes actually existed. You chose your race (which had base stats), chose your major stats (from the #1 major to the least. The #1 got the highest % bonus), and then you went in. Every spell in the game is open to you, but based on your stats, you are only going to be really well off with certain things. For example, if you decided to go an elf and went for high energy/speed, you would probably be best at an Assassin. Even though you have a large amount of energy, the high speed will make you lose too much to really be a good caster.

The next thing I had were Knowledge Points. Knowledge points opened up different skill trees and advanced your knowledge in those different skill trees. The cost of opening up these skill trees is largely based off of your stats. Mono classes are probably the easiest to make for the beginner, but Hybrid classes will probably be the main class seen. Three classes would probably be possible, but would be very hard to pull off..

Spells: Spells that you cast that are your level are going to take up a large percentage of your energy unless you are just a plain monster ><. If you cast your best spells, you might only be able to cast 1 or 2 before completely wearing yourself out.

Be careful when casting spells. When you are worn out, you move at half speed and you take 100% dmg (that really weak 1450 dmg weapon is suddenly really nasty). With a level 1 unit that had about 30 mana and 300 hp, I probably took 30-35 dmg from a 1450 dmg wep while I had no armor. I only lost about 10 mana. At about 10 mana, you lose 1 mana per hit and you take about 70-80 dmg. It's quite balanced and realistic with my damage equation =). If you had about 250 energy with no special abilities to reduce energy loss per hit, you'd probably lose all of your energy and take about 1-2 damage from the wep. Energy proficiency goes WAY down after you hit 30-35 which is why I was at 30 =). Remember, this is exponential.

Now, with spell casting, imagine spells like wisp wheels (from mazes) flying out towards you. Some spells can be easy to dodge, some harder. Each of the little parts of the spell can also deal out different amounts of damage. Based on the over-all balance of the spell, 1 little wisp in that wisp wheel might deal 70 dmg while the rest deal 1 each.

Spell-Casting would be based on your reaction time and math. If you can properly balance out the spell to be the most effective and you can react fast enough to what's happening, you'd probably make a great mage.

Fighters are based largely on aiming, dodging, and blocking. Each weapon has a specific cooldown. When you hit the hotkey for the wep, you attack with it. Each weapon has a certain curve of attack, a certain attack radius, weight, cooldown, energy cost, damage, etc, etc, etc, etc. There are so many different factors to each wep, it's breathtaking. As a fighter, you won't be looking at these different factors. You'll be looking at the other player's wep and timing when it is best for you to strike and not get hit. As a fighter, movement is very strategic. When you move, it takes up energy, and you won't have that much energy. If you put more into spirit, you could give yourself more energy to allow for more movement, but you would have to sacrifice hp or speed in the process and both are very important. If you don't have enough speed, you might not be able to dodge a killing blow. If you don't have enough hp, you might not be able to take any hits. If you don't have enough strength, you might not even be able to wield your weapons or deal that much damage based on the stat modifiers.

Yes, weapons get damage boosts, speed-up boosts, etc, based on your stats and based on the weapon type, If you are wielding a claymore, your boosts would probably all go to damage. If you had a dagger, it would probably all be in speed and lower energy cost.

Now, when you move, if you run out of energy, that means you can't attack because it takes energy to attack. You are also at half speed. This leaves you wide open to the enemy which is why this class is so very strategic.

Assassin Builds-
The Assassin is just what it says. These are extremely speedy characters with EXTREMELY low amounts of hp. They don't rely on strategy to win because they don't have to worry about their energy while they move since their stats should be focused into agility, spirit, and energy. The weapons take low amounts of energy to attack and can deal out major amounts of damage in a short amount of time with the utter speed.

This build is more based on reaction time and quick thinking. Your goal is not to be hit. If you are hit, you are dead.

Ranged Builds-
These builds use things like Bows and Arrows. They need to worry about their ammunition. If they run out, they are pretty screwed. Bows yield damage while arrows yield effects. Mix different arrows together to form devastating effects (shoot an freezing arrow along with a flaming arrow for quick burning damage while keeping them frozen so they can't move towards you).

This build is more of a support build as they are very weak in 1 on 1 combat. However, it can be directed toward 1 on 1 combat with special skills such as multi-shot and special bows that put more speed into the arrows. The harder it is to dodge an arrow, the more easily they could handle a 1 on 1 fight. However, they are not the best in 1 on 1 fights as I have said. The most probable best is the Assassin. The Fighter is more based on tanking for Support Characters. The Mage is more for massive war-time battles. The Ranged Builds are more for Anti-Hero Support as they can easily kill heroes that do not see the missiles coming at them.

All of these builds coupled with the growth system that I went over and coupled with the new point-based spawning systems yields an extremely strategic/skillful/fast thinking/analytical game. Every player can fully play their own style and experience an entirely different face to the game.

One more feature I'll go over:
Units cannot move without a leader unit. This unit can be a player hero or a Lieutenant. Your spawn points go up as you kill (different units wield different spawn points). To gain levels, you need to kill special units or heroes. To gain spawn points, you need to kill regular units. The units killed by units that you spawn also count toward your spawn points. In this way, you can have an even more diverse war-time build.

Another:
Units damages and damage types are solely based on the equipment they have. Buy 300 swords for the next 300 units of a type. These 300 units will spawn with these swords in hand and will do damage. A unit without any equipment of any sort can yield extremely low damage and armor. Spawn Points are used to buy equipment. The equipment is only temporary though. The spawning is permanent. It needs to be balanced. If you start out with a few strong units with lots of equipment, your over-all morale is going to be lower unless you somehow balanced that with morale boosting units. Enemies will have higher morale and will probably end up winning.

0 Morale = 50% decrease to all
50 Morale = No Increase/Decrease
100 Morale = 100% increase to all

Ok... hopefully this will give you some ideas =)

I forgot what my old project was called, but as you can see, it was pretty massive and required a lot of skill. Me and a friend also tested out some of the combat and it was a lot of fun. We each had some really weak human soldiers and went in with a couple of basic pikes (very large cooldown). We both Moved EXTREMELY Slow, was kinda funny. We both really sucked at it, couldn't even hit each other (our aim suxed ><).

So, have fun then! : D

BTW:
I'm Really Against Recipes. You should make class-ups instead (another feature from this thing). Maybe Item Class 1-10?

You should also put in augments to customize your weapons even more. Perhaps make a few weapons that grow as they kill.
 
Level 4
Joined
May 16, 2004
Messages
76
Wow you certainly have alot ideas Nestharus. To coffin puppet, I don't know if anyone already suggested this but why not try adding in a unit upgrade system. Say if your team was to band enough supplies from killing the enemy creeps you could turn them in to your homebase to upgrade your computer ally's forces.
-CR
 
Level 31
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,306
That's been tried in different things such as Hero Wars. It took away from the hero battle and sort of split everything up. What ended up happening was the sucked up heroes would stand in the back upgrading troops while the good ones stood out to fight.

That's why you need to split them up into completely different categories such as I suggested.

A better way like I said before would be also to allow players to have their own choice of units to spawn (they would not be in control of these in any way, they would be owned by the computer, but the kills done by the unit would go to the player's spawn points). This allows for more strategy and a larger array of diverse games.

You could build a sort of troop that worked perfectly with your hero and you could lead them into battle.

Imagine a Hero vrs Hero fight where each hero had their own supporting troop.

Let's say one was ranged. They had a few tanks/mass unit damagers (low damage to lots of units). In this way, the ranged unit with the extremely high damage could quickly pick off the weaker units and could also more easily target the hero.

Imagine the other side was an assassin type. They had counter units (units that countered spells), and distractive tank units (very low dmg, very low speed, but high defenses and hp). In this way they could distract the small troop with the higher damagers and use the few counter units to counter any spells in case of a mage. The Assassin could quickly sneak around and kill the hero. From there, it could do minor support and finish the troop off which would have extremely diminished Morale.

Now imagine that there was a supportive Mage set up in Ambush. They used an invisible type spell to hide bombs all about. The quicker more fast acting units of the ranger would need to lure the other troop to the bombs while keeping the hero off its guard (it is a ranged unit, so it's very anti-hero). All troops would be destroyed in the bombs and the other hero would be nearly dead.

The Strategic Elements of spawning your own troops at the different outposts/strongholds/forts are boundless...
 
Level 5
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
61
Wow, your Suggestions realy made me astonish! First off, thanks alot for helping me out.
Just one Question, what did you mean with Class Items? Items that Level with your character? Like a somewhat permanent Wepon/Armor/Misc. thing?
Oh, and +Rep for you Nest, realy must have taken some time writing all that down.
 
Level 31
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,306
Let's say you have a sword that slowly gains power as it kills..

Almost like a leveling sword

After a certain amount of levels (the sword, not the player), the sword changes appearance (gets larger, etc). Over all of this, the sword's stats are increasing etc.

This would be more for a race specific thing, maybe like a demon.
 
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