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What do you want in an AoS? - Ideas Needed!

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Some of you may have played my map "Strife of the Elves" which attempts to take ideas from many different AoS-style maps, improve upon them, and put them all in one epic package. While I think I have added some somewhat interesting features (i.e. the ability to upgrade creeps, improve your abilities with crit and spellpower, and capture nodes that buff your allies), I can't help but get this "generic AoS" feel when I play.

My question is simple:

1. What do you want in an AoS?

and subsequently:

2. What don't you like about everyday AoS-style maps?
3. Any innovative features that you have seen in other AoS-style maps that you found particularily cool or well-done?
 
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Big post incoming! :)

I've had some thoughts of making an AOS, got some pretty neat ideas from other members here and from my own mind, i will quote them and copy paste from my development thread, do what you want with them, i found them useful for my map at least, was some nice things to add :).

My own ideas:
-Upgradeable creeps and towers
-certain points that give exp/units/gold when controlled that exist on different spots of the battlefield
-Abilities to some of the creeps
-Sending bomb attacks at a point in the map, ground as sappers, when they reach the target they explode and deal some damage (needs to be timed very great to be nice) or as zepelins, bombing units below them.
Events- Well, random events, all heroes gets freezed for a couple of seconds, every hero gets some extra gold, every hero gets experience, random monsters spawns all over the map, all heroes takes 25 % of its max hp in damage, all heroes gets healed by 20 % of its max hp, all heroes gets a movement speed buff for a couple of seconds, Etc. Etc. Uncountable number of different events that happens at random times during the game can be invented.

Quote from Yeeshadow's post:
"- Another resource: I named this resource "magic", you used to buy special things, specially upgrades or to repair buildings (And something more importnat). The way to gather that magic was simple, there were lanes, each lane had one tower that produced magic, of course you could conquer those tree places to work for your side, it was a battle for resources too.

- More gold income: It worked like the magic, but instead a tower, it was a gold mine...

- Summon Builders: No, no, this is not a common hire peon-type unit to use it to repair your base, you buy that thing to summon lots of peons to repair the towers. I really loved how it looked, a lot of peons appeared in front of the castle (the primary building you need to destroy to win) and they start running all around repairing towers, buildings and almost everything. Of course you could kill the peons to stop them.

- Power Generators: The goal was the same, destroy the enemies base, to do that, you needed to destroy the generators first, those generators were almost in the entrance of the base, to make it simple... but, this was to make people fight in each lane, not just focus on one.

- Rebuild Buildings: You could rebuild your defenses and of course the generators, for that you needed magic. This worked different from the Summon Builders function, the buildings just appeared (with a teleport effect) so it was an instant thing, this is a very tricky part for the balance, but it make the game really fast, always with lot of action, you needed to be fast to defeat your enemies, this simple function make the map 10 times more interesting, and you need to destroy the enemies magic spots as fast as you could to prevent them from gathering magic.

- Change sides: What?? Are you insane?? Yes... you could be a traitor the whole time...

- Send items: I loved this function, if you are a terrible player you could send items to the other players to help. Lets say you buy a potion and want to send it to another one, you go to the shop, "buy" the send item, you give the item to the runner, and she started running, the problem is that she could be killed and she dropped the items.

- Nightmare Spell: Well, this is as simple as it sounds, but it was extremely weird, it was an ultimate, you put to sleep a target then it becomes invulnerable, then a ghost appeared far away from the target, that was a representation of the unit dreaming, that ghost could be controlled by the owner of the sleeping unit, the objective was to reach his body to wake up, but, if the ghost was killed before reaching the body the sleeping unit died, the problem is that the only one that could see that ghost were the nightmare caster, but the ghost make the minimap ping, but if he stopped, the mini-map stop the ping, so it was a hide and seek mini-game with an ability. I never uploaded this because is harder to use than it sounds, specially beacause you can't make the ghost appear in any place, because it could get trapped.

- Advance AI: And it was seriously Advanced, so advanced that you could only use it in single player mode (too much lag in multiplayer, specially with full house, 10 players). And what is the advanced thing? Well... if you typed something like "I need gold!" or "Gives me money" or things like that, the AI
respond in different ways, so, it was really AI, not a simple command, like "-all gold to me". Let me get a little more in depth with this system.
- Each hero have their own personality, and each hero react different depending on the situation. You may have seen things like, the base is being destroyed and the AI is still trying to destroy the enemies base... well, with my system the AI, depending on the situation and the personality of each hero they could go and defend, buy a "Summon Peons", continue attacking, and more...
- More important, the AI was created to make the player feel like it was playing with someone. Not just another random creep. If you typed things like "help me", they answer depending on the situation and their personality, and yes... they answer... They could answer things like "Can't you see I'm in trouble here?" or "Can't teleport, I'm going as fast as I can", each hero with more than 20 different phrases for each situation...
- To make the player feel like it was playing with someone else, the AI also talked sometimes, and can even chat with the other AI units, from your side and from the enemies side too, they could something like "you're gonna die" or they could ask for your help, money of something else, like "I'm dying here! Please give a potion, you have to spare!"
- To make this possible you need to develop the heroes, their history, an more, it was really simple to me, because they were from a previous campaign I created, so they act as if you were playing with those characters, they even have a relation between heroes that could change their answers.

More things that are not really common but have been used:
- Upgrade units: Stats only
- Upgrade units: Change their actual look and improve all their stats.
- Quests"
 
Level 6
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ni mode which stands for "no items"
Item leads to "receipes" which leads to imbalanced.
Most of all, I don't like items because they cause the game to be a memory game
instead of an AoS/Arena. I don't want to play a puzzle but a PvP match.

That is all. DotA would be awesome without items ;)
 
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ni mode which stands for "no items"
Item leads to "receipes" which leads to imbalanced.
Most of all, I don't like items because they cause the game to be a memory game
instead of an AoS/Arena. I don't want to play a puzzle but a PvP match.

That is all. DotA would be awesome without items ;)

DotA is not good at all, not even without items, and items are a very big strategical point in most AoS maps, but well, many items are useless, there should only be a certain amount.
 
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* I find an interesting feature is if neutral hostiles are occasionally spawned somewhere on the map, so as to hold off the enemy waves (or allow them to be more numerous as one catches up with the other, which provides an additional challenge).
* If a player on each side is allowed to directly control the spawned creeps (who still carry out their Attack-Move to enemy location order, the player in charge can use them more efficiently by focus-firing etc.).
 

CyberDuelX16

C

CyberDuelX16

* I find an interesting feature is if neutral hostiles are occasionally spawned somewhere on the map, so as to hold off the enemy waves (or allow them to be more numerous as one catches up with the other, which provides an additional challenge).
This would unbalance it sometimes

+Upgradeable Creeps
+Less Items (Seriously...we don't need that many ><)
 
Level 28
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^ In the ones I've seen, there wasn't a big difference in terms of balance, as the creeps were strong enough to hold off several waves (we're talking 3 Queens of Suffering behind 5 Doom Guards and Infernal Juggernauts here). The idea being that they can hold off both attackers at the same time, so you really need your hero to get through.

* Something to do with all your money once all upgrades are purchased.
* Some kind of countermeasure that kicks in when a barracks is destroyed, for example a defense bonus on all the losing side's creeps to make up for the lost barracks (or just the ones spawned from that barracks). However, this one would be even harder to balance out.
 
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* I don't know if this is standard among AoSes, but shops selling towers can make for interesting situations.
* A "shield generator" scenario: all buildings (and all units within a certain radius) are invulnerable, you must destroy a vulnerable generator located in the middle (or a difficult-to-reach and hevily guarded spot) before moving on to the enemy's base.
 
Level 10
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woah, I forgot about this thread.

Thanks for your ideas :)

_____________________________________

I like the node concept on the paths. Thus making it more difficult to push forward on paths.

I also like the no item mode idea, will be implementing that in the future.
 

CyberDuelX16

C

CyberDuelX16

Lol, fail. Np. We'll keep em comin!

[+] Evolving Units - Unit Evolve After a significant amount of upgrades or an amount of time
 
Level 28
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* Some kind of long-range bombardment emplacements/creeps for both sides (and neutral hostile as well).
** Long-range spellcasters that are hard to take out but severely weaken your army until killed.
* Way gates that are only active when certain events occur leading closer to the base (and the fight that occurs to stop the other side from using the gate).
 
Level 4
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1. What do you want in an AoS?

-Epic Map Size, for more fun.
-Massive Creep Waves.
-Huge Number of Defenses.
-Heroes with awesome spells.
-and has a great Life Span.

2. What don't you like about everyday AoS-style maps?

-Lack of originality.
-Repetitive Gameplay.

3. Any innovative features that you have seen in other AoS-style maps that you found particularily cool or well-done?

-Item Recipe Function.
-Surrender Function.
 

CyberDuelX16

C

CyberDuelX16

Similar to my idea

[+] - Smart AI - AI creeps don't screw over the player (like blocking the hero)
 
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medium mapsize for faster ganks and less QQ farm ( farming sucks )
Lots of heroes. Agility, Intelligence, Strength ( 48+ )
Unique hero concepts. Not too many fancy imbalanced custom spells, but decent ones.
destructables, NO! cinematic doodads. Shit, can't stand a map that is put full of shit without any juke spots in the forest. One - Two kinds of trees, (warcraft 3 standard trees)
Some nice doodads are good, but only at spots that are not really part of the gameplay.

2-3 types of creeps no spells on them, jungling creeps. Fair sides ( jungling, juke spots, rune control, and so on )
2-4 creep lines - Same attack point for heroes, thus last hitting is easy to use.


-> do a fast paced aos, do not put that much work into it .. you don't come near dota or aom. Create a funmap AoS that is fun to play and therefore get more players. Its a nice diversion from competitive games
 
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* Lots of choke points, spells/attacks that destroy huge amounts of units at once are always fun.
* I always wanted to see a "gauntlet"-type AOS, where you need to dodge attacks to get through...
* How about traps you can choose to set off (or not, so as to lull the enemy into a false sense of security/make them paranoid and waste spells...) on your own side of the map? The effects useable would be limitless: poison, slow, burn, mana drain, illusory units that make them waste time...
 
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But fun!

* An idea that's been in my head for a while (thanks in part to OOTS): Nemesis heroes. The idea is that as eternal rivals, two heroes will always be at the same level (exp for any kill (but the rival) is given to both heroes). However, each hero will get special bonuses in combat (against that other hero only) such as extra damage, an occasional spell not normally available to them, screwing with the regeneration rates... And this would have to be done with specific heroes (can't have a manaburner rivals with a mage, can we?) that have similar roles in battle (support vs support; melee vs melee, etc.). And of course, combat dialogue between the two ("You killed my parents when I was young" vs. "You were the only victim that ever escaped me").
I know there's at least one AoS out there where the backstory for two heroes is of two sisters separated during childhood, one kidnapped and corrupted, the other taken in by the good guys, so now each tries to convert the other. This would simply be a way to implicate the story (which, to me, is the main selling point of any AoS map) into gameplay.
* An extension of my previous "creeps drop in at random intervals" idea: Have a boss occasionally appear that can't be beaten by a single team, instead, both sides consider the other neutral (but still attackable) until the boss is defeated. (Throw in standard Saturday-morning-cartoon message about making friends with your enemies just before they go back to ripping each other's guts out.)

And in case it still isn't flagrantly obvious, I have no idea how to balance out a map, so don't hesitate to tell me if my ideas are more unbalanced than the Titanic after hitting an iceberg.
 

Deleted member 177737

D

Deleted member 177737

Some of you may have played my map "Strife of the Elves" which attempts to take ideas from many different AoS-style maps, improve upon them, and put them all in one epic package. While I think I have added some somewhat interesting features (i.e. the ability to upgrade creeps, improve your abilities with crit and spellpower, and capture nodes that buff your allies), I can't help but get this "generic AoS" feel when I play.

My question is simple:

1. What do you want in an AoS?

and subsequently:

2. What don't you like about everyday AoS-style maps?
3. Any innovative features that you have seen in other AoS-style maps that you found particularily cool or well-done?

1.) Nothing
2.) The entire idea of AoS maps, all it is is a bunch of hero's killing each other. If you want to do that just go make a plane 64x64 map throw 6 hero's on it and let them kill each other.
3.) I stop d playing after the second game so, no comment here.
 
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Yeah, if you want heroes killing each other you want hero arenas. AoSes are about carnage and destruction on a grand scale, waves after waves of units hurling themselves into battle relentlessly despite the spells ripping into them from all sides, the hero doing his best to aid his allies push forward, every victory a thrilling push towards the enemy stronghold, every defeat a nerve-wracking moment of despair until your hero revives and joins the fray anew!

That said, I do like a minimal amount of plot for these maps, at the very least a good reason for why these forces are trying to kill each other.
 
Well, I myself like AoS a lot, and am currently working on one.

One thing I dislike about AoS today is the "farming session". Huge wave, strong creeps, they are very insignificant for those who wants to have an exciting game. Why would someone spend like, 60% of the game just blindly kill creeps and earn money, and repeat over and over again?

The important part of AoS is the battle of the heroes. You can go and watch some AoS-type of movies, and you will always find that the camera always focus on the heros fighting the villians. Who cares about the soldier dying at the corner of the camera?

I'm not saying that all AoS are boring, but personally, the only thing that can get me excited while playing an AoS is the part when every single player(hero) throws in all he/she's got in the big clash.

What's really worth achieving is to see your team standing in the battlefield with all your enemies dead after the "Crash Boom Bang"..

And that's what I'm implementing in my AoS map.
 
True, true, but isn't just as fun to have your hero square off against big ugly monsters and come out victorious?

Personally, I wouldn't like to fight something that's computer-coded. I prefer fighting against a real human being and enjoy the challenge of unexpectedness.

dota got everything that aos needs

One thing that DotA (or rather its creator and/or updater) failed and is still failing, is to acknowledge the world that it's just a Warcraft 3 AoS map. There are people who plays DotA, and doesn't know what Warcraft 3 is.
 
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One thing that DotA (or rather its creator and/or updater) failed and is still failing, is to acknowledge the world that it's just a Warcraft 3 AoS map. There are people who plays DotA, and doesn't know what Warcraft 3 is.
even thought dota is just a map/mod to wc3 it is rather considered as a new game, for a reason

its played offically in leagues and gaming happening over the world
 
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