How Should It All Be?

[Retera]

Hey guys, I had a thought about brainstorming something. I am working on making a new game on libgdx engine. I have mentioned it in several places on this site and to some people on discord, but basically the game looks like this:

Spoiler: Warsmash

The premise of the game is for it to exactly match Warcraft 3 as closely as possible, and require a WC3 installation to play (so it's almost like a mod in the legal sense) but I want all of the code to be recreated from the ground up so that players are free to mod it however we could want.

And this was making me think, how should it be? Reforged shows us that some people are okay with 30 GB download to play Classic Warcraft 3, so I was thinking because this project will probably be classic-only rendering (unless somebody else mods it) then in theory I could make this game have a 30 GB installation but use that space to store like every half-decent custom MDX model from the hive and every half-decent custom race from the Hive on the list of in-game units and models for the editor or something. If we're dealing with those smaller size files, we could really do a lot with 30 GB.

So I was thinking about this version of Warcraft 3 that has like many extra thousands of models and all the custom races implemented that the campaign inspires people to imagine (Naga, Draenei, Fel Orc, etc) perhaps with whatever is the most definitive edition of these races (maybe I'd talk to the Ultimate Battle guys, not sure, idk).

But at the same time, the video up there is playing a map made in the Warcraft 3 editor. This game would aim to support any Warcraft 3 map (with some limitations, for example the pathing system is slightly different and might always be different since I don't really know how WC3's original pathing system works on an algorithmic technical level). Also I tried a map that almost exclusively used custom models and there were definitely some edge cases in the MDX format that would make it totally unplayable until I fix things, which would take a very long time.

So, I mean, this isn't going to be done tomorrow, I'm really just fishing for ideas. If we think about this 30 GB install with all the races and all the MDX models from Hive, maybe, what else should be in there? Obviously all the new natives added in the patches leading up to Reforged. I don't personally think it should support Lua, it seems more like the game should only support one language and people would want a lua game could fork the code and build a lua version and I would encourage them to delete JASS entirely on that version to prevent spaghetti code.

I think it should also have a world editor with this kind of behavior tab, although there is more work needed in the engine to accomplish this:

As well as an initegrated Retera Model Studio in the editor, hopefully:

And stuff like this:

 

[stein123]

:O

 

[Pwnica]

Dude where you was 15 years ago ! you had the chance to rule the world !

 

[Retera]

Tonight, I made it play starcraft.
So, that's another way I think it should be -- it should be able to do this.
I am not the author of the Project Revolution mod to play Starcraft on Warcraft III; it's been around for years. So, again this is just loading a Warcraft III mod.

 

[A]mun]

Isn't this too much work, all decent hive models implemented? I mean... that part doesn't seem necessary.

The Warsmash i've seen so far looks quite like classic+ - a dream come true (been watching youtubes for quite some time now).
Btw, does Blizzard allow all this tinkering with their source code?
I am afraid something like Wow Nostalrius might ensue.

 

[Drake53]

Reforged shows us that some people are okay with 30 GB download to play Classic Warcraft 3, so I was thinking because this project will probably be classic-only rendering (unless somebody else mods it) then in theory I could make this game have a 30 GB installation but use that space to store like every half-decent custom MDX model from the hive and every half-decent custom race from the Hive on the list of in-game units and models for the editor or something. If we're dealing with those smaller size files, we could really do a lot with 30 GB.

I'm one of the people who are not okay with 30GB. I also don't see how this idea would work out in practice, since existing maps are unable to benefit from the additional assets, and new maps would become Warsmash-exclusive (unplayable on official wc3) if they rely on these assets. Either way if you decide to do this I think it'd be best if you somehow make it optional.

what else should be in there? Obviously all the new natives added in the patches leading up to Reforged.

You could add natives that do not exist in official wc3, for example getting the mouse screen coordinates. More ideas here: Producer Update: Natives List

I don't personally think it should support Lua, it seems more like the game should only support one language and people would want a lua game could fork the code and build a lua version and I would encourage them to delete JASS entirely on that version to prevent spaghetti code.

Not sure how I feel about this, I don't know how you implemented the JASS VM so far so I'll just take your word for it that it'd become a big spaghetti mess if lua were to be added.
Though I don't think a lua version can actually delete the JASS stuff, since I'm pretty sure the preload files are in JASS, even if the map is set to lua.

I think it should also have a world editor with this kind of behavior tab, although there is more work needed in the engine to accomplish this:

That looks really awesome, mind blown.

Btw, does Blizzard allow all this tinkering with their source code?
I am afraid something like Wow Nostalrius might ensue.

Blizzard can't do sh!t as long as the assets are not redistributed (so that Warsmash requires an official installation to play) and all the source code is created from scratch.
There exist other projects similar to this as well and they seem to be doing just fine, example: OpenRCT2/OpenRCT2