How should heroes learn Abillities?

[Evil seal]

Im working on a AoS map and i asked my self which type of way your hero should learn abillities in:

All abillities at 1st level
This includes the ultimate, at the beginning of the game you have all the heroes abillities from the start and can use them.

All abillities except Ult at 1st level
As above except that you get your Ult automaticaly at level 6.

Classic
The Normal Wc3 abillitie learning system.

Other
If you choose other, please describe what system you think is the Best,

 

[Kala]

Depends. If you want a slow AoS like Dota, use the classic way. But if you want little faster
game you should use the "All except Ult at first level".

 

[Ennyliohanus]

Okay, my system maybe isn't the best (it is probably used in many maps), but it's still better than simple Blizz style in my opinion.

It would be good if each Hero had 5 abilities instead of classic 4. Lets say maximum level is x. From level 1 to level x/4 Hero can level up 2 spells. From level x/4 to 2x/3 in addition to first two spells, Hero can learn and level another two spells. From level 2x/3 to level x, final spell is unlocked.

There is a problem if maximum level is too low or too high. Lets say max level is 100. Then it would become too boring to level up 2 spells for 25 levels, then 4 spells from 25 to 66 (lets make it 70), and at last all 5 spells from 70 to 100. Same thing is if max level is for example 10. 2 spells until level 3, then 2 more until 7, and then all 5.

Whether you use this system or not, I suggest that you don't use "All abilities at 1st level" and "All abilities except Ult at 1st level", because they'll make game boring.

Of course, all this is just my opinion.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Classic

2 Active, 1 passive and 1 ultimate

And one spell that automatically levels when you gain levels (or every 3 levels)

 

[Chizume]

Aeon of War is great proof of why I voted for all abilities at level one.

 

[Rym]

Hmmm if you want something new to make your AoS map somewhat unique, here is my suggestion..

Instead of 4 skills, try making it 6
- the two in the center part will be most likely a passive or a core mechanic for your hero. You can use this two slots to create a unique playstyle in every heroes you make.
then the 4 skill at the bottom will be 3 active and 1 ultimate.

How this thing works?
Sample1:
ORC WOLFRIDER, the wolf will have a stamina meter and it affects the skills you use (the 4 active skill/spells) the main core is to balance the usage of the wolf's stamina.
The two core skills of Wolfrider will be
"wolf's stamina" - shows how many stamina your wolf have, and passively regenerate stamina while standing still.
"consume corpse" - your wolf consume nerby corpse to regain its stamina.
sample skills:
growl - increase the attack speed of nearby allied unit while reducing the enemies movement speed. the area of effect varies on how many stamina your wolf currently have.
consume x mana x ws(wolf's stamina)
whip - increase the movement speed of your unit for a certain amount of time.
the speed varies on how many stamina your wolf currently have.
consume x mana x ws

sample2:
Ogre Brute, this heroes main mechanic is to gain rage and control it.
The core abilities of this hero will be:
"Rage" - each damage you take will add rage. increasing your effectiveness in combat. (it also show your rage meter)
"Boiling anger" - passively increases your attack speed and slightly increase your movement speed depending on your rage.
sample skills:
Vengeful strike(autocast) - adds x physical dmg and x% of your rage as spell dmg.
consume x mana and x% rage.
Anger control - ogre brute will try to relax and control its rage making the ogre more vulnerable to attack, but slowly regaining its hp.
slowly drain rage.

Change Skill upgrade
- instead of generic skill upgrade that uses hero points, the skills will automatically improve itself each time your hero level up.

Change how hero level points works
- make every skill available in level 1 but not the ulti (the ulti will be unlock depending what level you prefer and it doesnt spent hero points). remove the boring plus attribute and instead of the generic single upgrade, try to make a 3 different upgrade on one skill and 2 different upgrade for the ultimate. each upgrade will give a different effects for the skill. The player can only choose 2 of 3 upgrade in their active spells and 1 upgrade for their ulti. giving the player a way to customize their hero not only by item.

 

[Evil seal]

Hmmm if you want something new to make your AoS map somewhat unique, here is my suggestion..

Instead of 4 skills, try making it 6
- the two in the center part will be most likely a passive or a core mechanic for your hero. You can use this two slots to create a unique playstyle in every heroes you make.
then the 4 skill at the bottom will be 3 active and 1 ultimate.

How this thing works?
Sample1:
ORC WOLFRIDER, the wolf will have a stamina meter and it affects the skills you use (the 4 active skill/spells) the main core is to balance the usage of the wolf's stamina.
The two core skills of Wolfrider will be
"wolf's stamina" - shows how many stamina your wolf have, and passively regenerate stamina while standing still.
"consume corpse" - your wolf consume nerby corpse to regain its stamina.
sample skills:
growl - increase the attack speed of nearby allied unit while reducing the enemies movement speed. the area of effect varies on how many stamina your wolf currently have.
consume x mana x ws(wolf's stamina)
whip - increase the movement speed of your unit for a certain amount of time.
the speed varies on how many stamina your wolf currently have.
consume x mana x ws

sample2:
Ogre Brute, this heroes main mechanic is to gain rage and control it.
The core abilities of this hero will be:
"Rage" - each damage you take will add rage. increasing your effectiveness in combat. (it also show your rage meter)
"Boiling anger" - passively increases your attack speed and slightly increase your movement speed depending on your rage.
sample skills:
Vengeful strike(autocast) - adds x physical dmg and x% of your rage as spell dmg.
consume x mana and x% rage.
Anger control - ogre brute will try to relax and control its rage making the ogre more vulnerable to attack, but slowly regaining its hp.
slowly drain rage.

Change Skill upgrade
- instead of generic skill upgrade that uses hero points, the skills will automatically improve itself each time your hero level up.

Change how hero level points works
- make every skill available in level 1 but not the ulti (the ulti will be unlock depending what level you prefer and it doesnt spent hero points). remove the boring plus attribute and instead of the generic single upgrade, try to make a 3 different upgrade on one skill and 2 different upgrade for the ultimate. each upgrade will give a different effects for the skill. The player can only choose 2 of 3 upgrade in their active spells and 1 upgrade for their ulti. giving the player a way to customize their hero not only by item.

We have considered doing something like this, but we aren't sure... Maybe we give all heroes 1 passive ability and 4 other and they might be passive aswell.

 

[Rym]

Oh i see. well in this kind of concept its not necessary to have 2 extra skill, as long as the hero have its unique gameplay mechanics its fine. the reason why the 2 extra skill is different, its not upgradable. its just like a tool that helps the hero or enhance its spell/skill but it can also be its main spell. ill show you in the sample hero. i hope you get
my idea..

not like the first 2 sample that somewhat kinda same coz they both using another resource besides from mana, (rage and wolf's stamina) i have made two sample hero that uses 1 extra skill that have different gamestyle and mechanics.
the first hero uses the extra skill as a tool and the other one uses it as a main spell.

sample1:
Dwarven gunslinger, this hero focus on timing and aiming.
The core ability of this hero will be
"Focus" - Dwarven gunslinger concentrate on its target walking slowly and making his shot more precise but also more vulnerable to attacks.
Activate/Deactivate style of spell. doesn't need mana to cast.

sample spells:spells effects improve while "focus" spell is active.
Bazooka - fire a bazooka at the target area, damaging every enemy on the area.
Bazooka (focus on) - fire a bazooka towards the target area, damaging the first unit it strikes.
Rifle - fires a long range and high damage shot on a target area. needs 2sec to cast.
Rifle (focus on) - remove the casting time.

sample2:
Bloodelf firestarter, this hero spells dmg and effects depends on how long he charge his fire spells.
The core ability of this hero will be
"Evoke fire" - Creates an aggressive fire out of no where and tries to control it to follow the caster's bidding. interrupting the process will damage the caster.
channeling spell that drain mana per sec.
(this spell is necessary for casting fire spells)

sample spells: spells doesn't need mana to cast, you need to cast "Evoke fire" first. and while this channeling spell is active, you can then cast fire spells.
Fire blast - stun the target and set him/her on fire dealing dmg over time.
(the stun and DOT duration depends on how long you channel "Evoke fire")
Fire cloak - while the cloak is active, the caster is immune to stun effects and also damage to anyone who attack the caster for x spell dmg.
(the spell damage and duration depends on how long you channel "Evoke fire")


The spells might not be that balance but its just a sample on how this mechanic can be applied. I hope you get my point. ^ ^

 

[Evil seal]

Yes, i get the point We already have implented a "Similar" way before but we consider adding "Perks/upgrades" cause it sounds awsome. And it's important in my map that every hero got unique gameplay and several diffrent playstyles. Thank you for ideas

 

[Rym]

you're welcome. ^ ^
i hope that you can add "perks/upgrades" smoothly with no problem in your project.
Good luck!