How much time do you invest for your map/campaign projects?

[Verdun]

Wanted to do this in map development originally but this is more of a general question not tied to a specific project.

If you contemplate your most "ambitious" projects on the Hive so far - full campaign, really detailled supersize map, your own tower defense, etc. - how long did it take you to move from idea to uploading the finished thing here?
Were there big pauses in development?
Did you ever finish it at all?

What sort of general advice would you give, based on your experiences?

 

[Footman16]

Lordaerons Legacy took a year I think? And it's short for a campaign only 5 playable missions and 2 cinematics.

Lordaeron's Destiny a full campaign with ten chapters and multiple interludes took me multiple years with a big break in the middle and delays due to Reforged originally not having CCs so I couldn't test as I developed it.

My current project Path To Valour was started January last year and should be finished by this summer so a year and a half? To be fair I did work on it fairly consistently at the start finishing maps in an average of 2 weeks roughly. However, I also took breaks again at a few points where little to no work was done including recently.

So my advice is Two-fold:
1) Start off with a smaller project that you can finish before you lose passion, a mini-campaign is good because it's tight and forced you to be sharp and efficient with the plot and missions.

2) For longer projects you need to plan and have a clear vision of the story and where things will go. It doesn't mean everything needs to be planned perfectly but you need a good idea of the story you want to tell and how but the specifics can change as you progress. Also people starting out tend to overestimate the scope they'll be able to achieve, most blizz campaigns are 7-9 missions, usually 8, which is a good guideline I think to aim for as any more and things can start to grow out of control, lose focus and motivation.

 

[FeelMyRash]

My largest project was "Lord of the Rings: Dagor Dagoroth" which took about 2 Years to develop to a point where I thought I could release it, but I took a lot of breaks between and sometimes I simply didn't have any ideas or motivation for how to continue.

I don't really have any specific advice aside from saying that breaks are important and that you shouldn't try to push development too much or else you'll burn out quicker.

If you get burnt out just work on something else or play a different game for a bit until one day you think about the map and go "Hey, what if I added this?"

Also don't be too disheartened if something you really wanted to add doesn't initially work out or doesn't work out at all. Concepts can be totally different in theory VS in practice. Either look for new ways to implement the idea or save it for another map.

 

[deepstrasz]

I think time is the essence here. If only there was more of it. Passion is there but it's never enough alone.

 

[Rheiko]

Actually, I don't have a finished map project uploaded to Hive yet, but please allow me to share my perspective.

I'm the type of person who keeps working on something with little to no breaks, hoping I can finish it faster that way. But that often leads me to cancel projects midway due to burnout. Don't be like me.

FeelMyRash is right — breaks are very important. Don't force yourself to push development too hard. I also agree with Footman16: start small. I often find myself getting new ideas that way, perhaps because small projects are easier to expand on. Just make sure to set boundaries for the ideas you want to implement, or they'll pile up and become harder to manage. Don't forget your main goal — that's what I'm trying to say.

From my experience with projects outside of map development, breaking a big goal into smaller, achievable milestones makes things much more manageable. I've applied this to my latest map project. Along with taking proper breaks, I don’t burn out as much anymore. Progress may be slower, but it's steadier. Hopefully, I’ll finish it and upload it to Hive someday.

It's okay to be ambitious — just remember, life is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[Footman16]

I will say that one advantage of Custom Campaigns is the sheer breadth of things sometimes keeps it fresh. Because once you finish a map you move onto something different it can help to prevent burnout or things feeling stale. You also need to: terrain, techtrees/units, trigger, sound design, cinematics, writing etc so it's a very holistic project to work on.

 

[ThompZon]

My biggest project is: https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/the-defence-of-the-castle.324524/
I think it was ~5 years from I started working on it until first upload here (and now another 5 years have passed).
I've had many pauses for various reasons and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Take care of yourself and do what you like. If motivation is low, don't push too hard. Burn out is a risk.

I guess my advice is to do what feels fun and try to get family or friends to try what you make. It can be demotivating when you don't get any feedback. Also, don't worry too much; if you keep at it, you'll learn. I didn't really have interest to learn jass at first, but then it was required to do some suff (clearing leaks, doing timer stuff, local variables, etc.), then more and more things became easier. You don't need to make it perfect the first time. It's always best to do something simple, try it and improve it rather than trying to make something "perfect" from the get go (and risk getting stuck and lose motivation).

I also took way too long before doing initial upload. I should've uploaded it earlier imo. I also have very low interest in "marketing", so the page for the map is very "unprofessional" (simple) imo, and so is the minimap-art (I did it in paint). I think that is fine. If I cleaned the map-page up, maybe the map would be more popular. But I don't think it's fun to do, sooo... Mabye at some point

 

[Barbafire]

Let me contribute. Well, today I'm a Game Designer Junior (trying to change my life, and searching for work), and I'm using warcraft as a learning tool, since I love this game too much xD.

My first official project (which means, the one I intended to seriously develop), is Outerworld Arena. I've took all that I was learning while studying, and executed in a real project. I've documented everything, trying to make a wonderful project, and I've defined a roadmap (list of objectives until the release version). I was supposed to spend 2 years developing this project until version 1.0. Guess what? I'm on the 3rd year, and didn't start the last objective on my roadmap.

I've tried to use the KISS idea (Keep It Simple Stupid), and failed miserably. I've discovered in practice how difficult is to balance an RPG game (My project is a gladiator arena, but it has RPG elements). I already knew this was going to give me a lot of work, but I didn't expect it'll be that much. But here I am, not giving up, and developing one thing after another. I've stopped for 6 months one time, doubting about myself and my choices, if this is really necessary, that sort of things, but eventually I came back. My project is more about me, than anything else. It is a proof that I can create something enjoyable, that I'm capable to trail of the path of the game development. So, here I am. My objective is self growth.

---

Now, not speaking about me and my motivations, but about my experiences during this development, I can share one or two things:

- Document your thoughts and ideas:

Write everything. You don't need to be a redator to do that, just write. When you write, you start to organize your ideas. If you like to write, I recommend you to also write how things will work, pace by pace. System, characters, units, anything. But only write the new things, not the obvious one (like move and attack).

- Set a deadline (or create a roadmap):

Even if ficctional, or one deadline that you don't have any idea, set one. While you are developing, and the project starts to grow, you see how much time did that part take, and so, you can predict better the other phases that are coming.

- You will fail a lot:

It is normal to make things wrong, and fail horribly. It is part of the process. Keep one thing in mind: If you failed, then is less one thing to check. You've learned one more way about how to not make what you want to make.

- Be thick skinned:

More about yourself than about the project. Receive negative feedback is bad. It is not good, but you need to understand the players' side, and that not everybody is a developer. You need to filter the opinions you receive, removing the toxic part of it, and keep the idea. List them, and after some days, go back to that list and check each one. Is it valid? Is it right? Can I improve? Remember: Do not let bad opinions affect you. It can reflect on your work.

During a match of my project, I was hostilely attacked by a player, and to this day I don't understand why. I was called trash, a bad developer, an idiot, that kind of thing.

- Work a little everyday:

Projects take a lot of time. You don't need to hardly work on them everyday. Do you need a new icon for an ability? Go search, download it, and leave it on a pastebin to use later. And you are done for today. It is not wrong, you have a life outside this. Research is also part of the process. Or take some time for yourself and don't touch it. Some people say that, if you are stuck on a problem, it is good to leave it far from you about 2 or 3 days. Your brain unconsciously thinks in the solution.

---

Well, I think I've finished. Now that I'm about to release my 0.90a version of my project, it'll officially receive a page on the maps section of this great community. Right after this objective, I'll start to develop it's final phase, and I've already started another project. Everything I've learned in Outerworld Arena, I'm using on the new project, with an expected developing time of 1 year. My experience reduced the new roadmap by half, and I feel grateful for the experience.

If you got curious about the new project, check it here: New Zombie Map by Barbafire. There is a video on it, and the playable prototype available.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

If a project's worth doing, it's worth spending 2+ years on. Don't release before it feels ready, take your time. You're allowed to have a life outside mapping and your work will probably be better for it.

 

[Resyak]

I'm an absolute disaster. I imagine there are those who think of something well planned and thought out when they see a fairly large project published. In my case, even those I've been working on for almost a year, reality is a chaos of curses against everything that exists.

I come up with an idea, for anything, from a video to a novel, a game... Whatever, and based on that, I open the editor and start "improvising" until I build a story. From there, with clear ideas (at that moment), I begin working on the project, but as problems, setbacks, and inconveniences arise, I get angry and frustrated until I eventually give up.

After a while, I usually come back, even more pissed off. Maybe it's been a month, two, or more, but if I have anything worse than my lack of patience, it's my stubbornness, so I don't accept defeat. And I start over again, moving forward until I "explode" again and then leave it for a while. And so the cycle repeats itself until something finally comes out, better or worse, but it comes out.

The final summary is that of the maybe 6-8 months I was developing a project, I spent 2-3 months outside cursing everything and 4-5 months actually working

Luckily, I haven't been alone in developing my campaigns, which is why they've ultimately come together. However, this latest one I'm working on is entirely on me, and well, it's been crazy (even though it's a remake of my previous projects). Luckily, I've had the help of a map tester, who, although he doesn't work directly on the development, is very helpful in finding errors and getting straight to the heart of the problem.

Regards.

Moral: You have to be a little crazy for this "job"

 

[Armelior_is_back]

Way too much time, because I'm crazy and perfectionist.

When I remade Lich King I think it took me about 1 year so 1+ month on average per playable map (10), but keep in mind :
1/ picking up the editor after almost 15 years took some time, it's not quite like learning to ride a bike but still faster than learning everything
2/ even if I didn't start from scratch except for 2 new maps, there was so much change I don't think that would have changed that much
3/ I made new gameplay parts like stealth and puzzle sections, an area effect that drains life, scripted boss fights and abilities etc. - the "crazy" part
4/ I can take a few hours to choose a model, a music track or a sound I want to use and I do a LOT of testing even for small details I don't like - the "perfectionist" part

But I was super motivated so I barely took any break and played only War3 that year (almost).
On my current project I've taken a long break after map 2 and now it's been a year and I have barely started map 3 after finishing all the preparation (planning, assets to use, techtree etc.).That might be just me, (re)starting anything takes 10 times the willpower compared
to continuing or finishing. Even playing a new game.


Enough about me, the maybe useful part :

Doing even a little work every day (or couple of days depending on your schedule) as someone already said, seems like solid advice.

Also, testing and fixing/rebalancing can take a while and is less creatively fulfilling (at least for me) so don't be too ambitious if you're just starting or that part could burn you.

That's also true if there is any part you like doing less (terraining, cutscenes, creating a techtree, whatever) try to spread it in between the parts you like instead of putting it for later and being left with only that to finish your project at the end.

 

[Barade]

More than with my family.