HELMS DEEP ULTIMATE v2.0

[Moderator]

17:26, 4th Aug 2010
ap0calypse: Approved

 

[IronForge]

LOTR RPG ALPHA - the shire ready, most systems in place, camera doesn't work very well - to be updated in a few days
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=21gmy5

IN GAME SCREENIES (very outdated)

 

[EternityPala]

Hai, i am here to support.

 

[Vengeancekael]

it is already better than most other Helms Deep maps out there

stop boasting nah i'll check it out later.

 

[EternityPala]

Well, in my opinion, it's pretty cool.

 

[IronForge]

eh thanks for FINALLY showing your face

 

[Warhunter]

This map wasen't verry fun, and I don't like the terrain, I mean, the geography, the castle itself. The castle is much better designed on other helms deep maps. I would not call this a epic map. It's just, boring, if you ask me. And I absolutely don't like that save/load system. It gives other players that have played your maps bigger chance for winning. It ain't fun.
3/5

 

[Hawk]

Nice map

 

[IronForge]

Hmm you're right with one thing, the terrain needs improving which is being done at the moment to convert it into forest style... but the save system is designed to help a bit, mainly to add variety. You can win even if NO ONE in the map has a single wood. As for boring, any ideas appreciated, but a helms deep is a helms deep, nothing more.

 

[IronForge]

The point of the map exactly, it started out as a small project just slapping AI spawns on. Come a long way since then lol.

 

[Lag_Reviews]

Nice Map, Heres my review

Awesome map it should be higher rating.

Although It is not perfect so... let me rate this map!

Please Note: I played as blue

First Review:

First method of rating:

1) Terrain - Excellent (4)
The terrain is awesome, it is very good texture. To get a better rating for this maybe texture the castle a bit more, but otherwise its all good.

2) Fun factor/gameplay - Good (3.5)
The game-play of the game is pretty good although there is room for improvement. You start out with a hero and have to defend the castle for 40 minutes. 40 minutes is a long time, especially when you do the same thing over and over again, it gets boring fast.

3) Single player - Bad (2)
Single player is really bad because there is limited AI support.

4) AI support - Bad (2)
There is some AI for units but not for the Heroes .

5) Originality - Bad (2)
This map isn't very original as there are many LOTR maps around.

6) File Size - Reasonable (3)
File size is a bit on the small side (This means you have alot of room for improvement) But overall, the file size is reasonable.

7) Internet/LAN Friendly - Excellent (5)
Works very well over LAN and Internet, as it does not crash for random reasons.

8) Balancing - Excellent (4)
You balance this game excellently. As mentioned above, the idea is get a hero (from what i saw there all balanced) and defend the castle. The creeps and heroes are well balanced.

9) Credits - Average (3)
You list the credits very well in game but you should also list them in your hibeworkshop map details section.

10) Theme - Excellent (4)
Defend the castle - awesome theme.

11) Description/Information/Detail - Average (3)
add screenshots/youtube video to the description to make it good and maybe an upcoming update log.

12) Hiveworkshop rules & regulation - Good (5)
Fits all Hiveworkshop Rules!

Overall top rating (40.5/60)

Second Review:

Second method of rating:

Game-play [3.5/5]:
The game-play of the game is pretty good although there is room for improvement. You start out with a hero and have to defend the castle for 40 minutes. 40 minutes is a long time, especially when you do the same thing over and over again, it gets boring fast.


Balance [4/5]:
You balance this game excellently. As mentioned above, the idea is get a hero (from what i saw there all balanced) and defend the castle. The creeps and heroes are well balanced.


Visuals [3.5/5]:
The visuals of the game, the look and feel is just great and here is why. You have some unique models for some of the attacking units (Catapults etc) Although you could have gotten custom LOTR models for creeps/ heroes and some of the buildings. Although the terrain is awesome, it is very good texture. To get a better rating for this maybe texture the castle a bit more, but otherwise its all good.


Usefulness of the map [4/5]:
Other then a couple of tweaks and fixes, I would share this game to anyone who enjoys a slow type of keep the hero alive. If you work out a few more tweaks, I am sure you will get a higher grade. This map is very useful/fun.

Other Points [3/5]:
While the idea of the game is very good and suits the map well, although it still has alot of things that could be done to make it look, feel and even be more enjoyable all over. Although on a good point there are no bugs within the game that I have actually found. Overall the game is working, has no bugs and just a few customization issues in need to make it a 5/5 star map.

Stuff to add in future (-2):

• Add AI support for heroes
• Give the castle a bit more texture
• Add more items
• Add a choose ability for heroes (They shouldn't start with all abilities and you should choose the ability when you level up, make custom abilities)
• Add custom lord of the rings models to everything

18/25 (from above)
minus 2 for the stuff you need to add to make it better
Overall Bottom Rating(16/25)

Things that confused me:

• Where do you buy items?
• Why does the -save -load command save your lumber?
• why do heroes start with all spells?
• How on earth do you get lumber and what is it used for?

Overall with a few tweaks this will be an awesome map,
Lag_Reviews


PS: Nice loading screen, catapults and how units climb up stuff to get into castle, keep up the good work and i'm sure this map will become huge!


EDIT: Two items in the armory are missing tool-tips

 

[IronForge]

* Add AI support for heroes
* Give the castle a bit more texture
* Add Items
* Add a choose ability for heroes (They shouldn't start with all abilities and you should choose the ability when you level up, make custom abilities)

There is no need to add AI support for heroes, its nearly impossible for it to be 'intellegent'. Its not ment to be played with anything less than a full house.
Abilities for heroes, I'll definately look into it.

* Where do you buy items?
* Why does the -save -load command save your lumber?
* why do heroes start with all spells?
* How on earth do you get lumber and what is it used for?

Items are sold in the armory. The place with lots of shops, should be obvious enough to find.
Lumber is used to buy some items. Not OP, just more variety. Ok maybe slightly more powerful and special (like the flag that gives a friendly aura) but don't expect an instant win item.
Save/Load is to encourage people to play my maps

 

[Warhunter]

I don't like that you've put a forest in this map.. If you look at the movie, there are no forests at Helms Deep.
Well, maybe you wanted an forest there, but I'm just saying that I don't like it.

 

[IronForge]

Well some illustrations from the book has forests on the side, with a field lightly dotted with trees on the path to the walls. That was a picture of helms deep at peace time. Also, the map would be hella boring and I'd get 0/5 for terrain if I didn't decorate it properly. But I'll definately look into removing some of the trees to create that barren field where the orcs assembled. Also, in the movie, it was dark and all, so you couldn't see the background. Its actualy the White Mountains.

As for forested helms deep, lookie here.
http://www.3dnworld.com/users/70/images/helms_deep.jpg
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/13/cc/02/helms-deep.jpg

From the book:
http://www.timefold.com/brosimages/helmsdeep.jpg

 

[takakenji]

wow, this actually IS better than most helms deep maps out there.

the terrain is already a plus, most helms deep maps have boring ugly terrains.

 

[IronForge]

Eh thanks!! If thats so, please save me and rate. Thx

 

[Dragonson]

the terrain is already a plus, most helms deep maps have boring ugly terrains.

As i said in the Pms ^^
I've looked abit into your map, and hell. It IS good.
5/5, also 'cause i like the map maker

 

[IronForge]

lol thanks

 

[VampireofBlood]

but don't reupload it !

 

[IronForge]

Reuploaded due to bug. I had to reupload over 4x today already due to small glitches that my testers found...
Mainly text errors and potential bugs

 

[Sumallo2]

Based from what I saw in the pictures, the forest is outside the city... not inside. I think the Helms Deep is somewhat like a walled city. Further comments will be posted later.

 

[VampireofBlood]

Reuploaded due to bug. I had to reupload over 4x today already due to small glitches that my testers found...
Mainly text errors and potential bugs

oh ok.
then i take that back^^

 

[IronForge]

1.7 Changelog
Terrain
Removed some trees in the middle
Improvements here and there

Items
Price changes, due to increased spawns you were getting too much gold.

Balance
Increased collision slize (slightly, more later if needed) from 8 to 10. The goal is to prevent being hit by 100 melee units at once but still not letting them get stuck.
Maybe reduce unit spawns but make them harder, we'll see how it works out first.

Misc
-Maybe add in realistic mode where each unit can only take a few hits before dying. Just a thought. Still experimental and may require more button mashing.
-Make the game work neater, trigger fixes, simplifying commands. Dialog options are even messier than commands so unless there is demand for it, its out. Dialogs are user friendly but annoying.

If anyone would like to suggest something more specific, just let me know.

 

[Vuormalainen]

Deleted on request.

 

[IronForge]

Yeah yours is interesting, but serves a different audience. More like a traditional helms deep. This is not ment to be simply an improvement over the hoards of others, its supposed to break grounds. And it has. Love it or hate it, helms deep now has a new genre thanks to this.

PS on the terrain, I'm working on it, but methinks its already great.

 

[phuatw]

The map quite fun and the map terrain looks nice,love the chain heal skill especially. On a side note i got prob playing the ranged night elf char in both teams. My warcraft keep crashing and it says the application has encountered a critical error. the file data is corrupt.. File : War3.mpq . Press ok to terminate the application -.-

 

[IronForge]

Eh thats new. I'll require more testing. Currently updating and playtesting 1.7 with some serious improvements particularly in the gate system. I'll get that done first before adding in 3rd person mode which has already been tested.

 

[CloudWolf]

Neat map I just played a quick game on bnet

Its generally pretty good, however, there is a slight problem with the map

Towards the end, there are masses of urak-hai running around, and you get that warcraft bug where troops take a long time to issue commands. So basically, they just stand there and do nothing The bug occurs when there are too many commands being issued by the player

This can be fixed by adding multiple players for the urak-hai force rather than having the one

but yea! Overall I liked it Nice work!

 

[Hawk]

Dude I can't play this !! Tell me why...

 

[IronForge]

Allright, I'll do that now, thanks!!!
Never really had that problem, maybe because my team after rounds of playtesting can pwn this on hardest difficulty easy. But yeah when they pile up it gets unfunny.

 

[IronForge]

Tell me why you can't play this...?

 

[Hawk]

Everything is fine.All is need to is download the latest patch.Good Map !

 

[IronForge]

Good to hear, thanks.
I'm working on an experimental FPS mode build but next update will be really slow in coming.

 

[Dragonson]

First Person mode or First Person Shooter mode?

 

[IronForge]

It was epic fail. First person mode, not shooter.

 

[Dragonson]

Then remove the S from FPS
Anyways, it sounded like a good idea.
What went wrong?

 

[IronForge]

Well, the camera used is the most advanced one on hive, it allows custom elevation and not just a flat surface. However with so many units swarming all over, it will cause lag in all but the newest and most advanced machines to the point of unplayableness.
ALso as you climb up and down its going to make you real dizzy and fast.

 

[Dragonson]

Hmm... a shame. Sounded like a good idea.

 

[Dragonson]

BTW, Iron, ya need a loading screen or something? 'cause i'm practising my photoshop skills right now.

 

[IronForge]

Heh that isn't necessary right now thanks for the offer though.

If you like a first person helms deep I'm going to explore that in my upcoming MMO. Its unlikely to work there but once my hands are free again i can continue to work on helms deep and minas tirith.

EDIT
v2.0 released, see changelog.

 

[Lag_Reviews]

Here is a Re-Review as this map has changed alot

Well I was recently asked to re-review it and as it has been updated heaps I decided it deserved another one.

So here is the re-review, Hope you enjoy and use my ideas and criticism to help improve your map.

The Review!

*Note I played as blue who I believe is Aragorn*

Things I liked:

• Nice Preview screen
• Nice number of units
• Good use of ladders/gates
• Nice steady flow of enemy units

PRO's:

• No Bugs
• Minor Glitch
• The game worked

CON's:

• Could have more custom icons/spells etc
• The terrain outside the castle could be improved (It's alright but it could have some tweaks to make it better)
• Riders of Rohan pile up and block the path(Some paths) stopping units going in and out to protect other sides.

Things you can do to improve the description:

• Could add an upcoming updates log so we know what you are working on fixing/adding
• Maybe you could add a youtube video of gameplay (This will attract more downloads if done well)
• Add a credits list (a must have)
• Use BBcode to make the description better and stand out more (Such as hidden tags, bold and underline tags etc to make certain sections stand out and to shorten the description)

Things you could add to the map to improve it:

• More custom spells/icons for heroes (Such as custom spell icons and customize what the spell effects/do as the majority are the same as what is already in most other maps)
• Could use custom icons for items

Suggestions

Suggestion Difficulty Mode

I was thinking as the host has to choose the difficulty mode every time and can do so at any time of the game, that there should be a better/more organized way of doing this.

My idea is that at the start (after everyone has loaded the game) you could have a dialogue box appear and vote for the difficulty you want to play on.

Choices could be:

• Sandbox (Enemy Units 20% handicap)
• Easy (Enemy Units 40% handicap)
• Medium (Enemy Units 60% handicap)
• Hard (Enemy Units 80% handicap)
• Impossible (Enemy Units 1000% handicap)

Then the option with the most votes would win (each player gets to vote once) after you have voted it would tell you what option got the most votes and move on to how long you wanted to play for (See Suggestion Timer)

Suggestion Timer:

I was thinking it takes forever for Gandalf to arrive to the town, therefore I have come up with a quick and easy solution to this as people don't necessarily want to play a map for 40mins.

My idea is that at the start (after everyone has loaded the game) you could have a dialogue box appear and vote for how long you want to play for.

Choices could be:

• Short(15mins)
• Medium(30mins)
• Long(45mins)

Then the option with the most votes would win (each player gets to vote once) once all votes are placed it would tell you what has been chosen and the game would start.

Overall, the map is a fun for a defence type map. Although the map hard in some cases and requires alot of teamwork, I think it is a good map and very challenging. The map is also good because I only found one minor glitch(Units blocked path) in the stuff that I tested. I would suggest this map to friends and people who like a team styled defence map and I would also suggest this map to friends as the bugs/glitches/errors are only minor.

I Vote for Approval and would give it a 3.5/5 It still has a little way to go yet before it is complete and up to scratch, so fix some of the cons I suggested and you will be well on your way.

All in all hope you liked my review as much as I enjoyed playing your map,
Lag_Reviews P:

PS:I did not finish the map as 40minutes was way too long. Also can't wait to here your feedback on my review and see what you brign to this map in the future P:

 

[IronForge]

Just an update - the RPG project is finally on the move again and some... help will be appreciated. Email [email protected] for details. Basically this map is one instance in the rpg.

 

[Dragonson]

Good to see this moving again.

 

[IronForge]

^^ good to see some people actually like it.

The RPG is now in early alpha and the shire is done.

Real thing will look very different as it is in third person rpg camera. Thanks to the witcher for that.

The helms deep map will be re done in the RPG, so you will fight in TPS mode with custom twitch based skills, knockback and all that stuff in arrow key movement. However for now, we're just making the shire for our 4th august release.

 

[Vengeancekael]

As a member of the group Map Reviewers, I will be reviewing maps :

[+] Terrain
[+] Gameplay
[+] Custom Music
[+] Custom models
[-] Fountain in the ground
[-] No intro (Perhaps a short cinematic)
[-] No custom icons

Tips: -Pan the camera to the hero's position when he's revived.
-Add camera options, for example lock on etc.
-Add tips
-Leave inner gates open until enemy units close in

Overall a lotr castle defense map better than the other ones I've played, which needs just a little more tweaks and it will be superb.

Rating: 3/5
Status: Approval

 

[ap0calypse]

Approved, but a few small notices:
- Uncaps the title (you may caps the first letter of every word, but this is ridiculous).
- Put the screeny's in the map description, in hidden tags ([hidden=title] [/hidden][/noparse).
- Improve the description with [url=http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode]BB-codes[/url] ( 1) explain the game 2) put the changelog in hidden tags 3) create titles and subtitles, don't use too much colors please, and do NOT use flashy colors at all).
- NEVER multi-upload!

 

[keston1010]

wow this is cool

 

[Goosebearslug]

On the picture of your upcoming MMO in the shire you may want to remove the shadows on the hobits cause they look kinda weird :S.

 

[IronForge]

As a member of the group Map Reviewers, I will be reviewing maps :

[+] Terrain
[+] Gameplay
[+] Custom Music
[+] Custom models
[-] Fountain in the ground
[-] No intro (Perhaps a short cinematic)
[-] No custom icons

Tips: -Pan the camera to the hero's position when he's revived.
-Add camera options, for example lock on etc.
-Add tips
-Leave inner gates open until enemy units close in

Overall a lotr castle defense map better than the other ones I've played, which needs just a little more tweaks and it will be superb.

Rating: 3/5
Status: Approval

Thanks. There won't be any more tweaks as this is just the demo for my RPG. It will be improved there. Its an RPG set during the war and this will be one of the instances (story missions).

The fountain is supposed to be in the ground, and its too big to have custom icons in the RPG. Tips are in quests page and yeah I promise you the one in the RPG will have all these and more.
We are currently in closed alpha so this isn't in yet though.