Helms Deep, TFT FINAL

[VGsatomi]

3 words: About. effing. time.

Finally a good helms deep map. Kinda an old map, too bad this site didnt get it much sooner, but darn sure the best Helms Deep out there. Could use some custom models and maybe some AI support and a longer ending to help spice this map up, but overall its the most balanaced map of any of this theme complete with a reasonable file size. Great detailing. Excellent work, and a Director's Choice Award from me.
-VGsatomi

 

[Mini-Me]

Excellent work? You got to be kidding me.

Castle defenders: Footmen, archers, couple of elite footmen (or w/e you call them). Heroes are the basic blizzard heroes with just name changed and some more damage added and have the blizzard spells (nothing changed there). The setting is the useall, ton of units scattered around the helms deep area.

Attackers: One building per enemy player, where you can mass produce the basic blizzard orcs and head hunters and couple of other types of units that are right from blizz with the exception of name changed.

This map provides the basic boring stuff as the other lotr: helms deep maps. Only thing that was decent, was the terraining of the helms deep. Even if this is 'a good lotr map', does it mean it deserves Directors choise? You dont give DC to 'good' aos maps, 'good' td's, you demand them to be outstanding. Was this map really outstanding?

Why did this get directors choise award? My guess is that vgsatomi is a lotr nerd fan. If this was 'the attack of the orcs' i bet no directors choise from him. But then again, there are other crap maps who got the Directors choise, so this map will fit right in.

 

[VGsatomi]

No, it was mainly because of the balancing, which almoast all other maps of this kind do not have, and because it fit the specifically targeted theme better then almost all others maps of the same theme.

You cant expect me to have nearly the time to play every single map in the archive, so no doubt there are many DC quality maps that have been passed over simply because me and the other map mods have not played them yet. You mention that I dont award "good" aos and td maps...well, let me ask you this; what do you consider to be "good" aos and td maps? Why have you not pointed them out to me in the past? If you have a suggestion, let me know and I can review them.

-VGsatomi

 

[Mini-Me]

Balance got this to be a DC map? Thats pretty funny because as i already mentioned, he uses the blizzard made orcs, archers (ofc he modified the range), footmen, heroes, spells, so naturally its balanced since blizzard created the units. With this criteria you should reward all melee maps with DC because they are also all balanced :roll: .

The rest of your comment i dont get where its coming from, you must have misunderstood me. I think its a good thing that you dont award just good aos or td maps, thats a good thing, ok? DC should be given to great, outstanding, spectacular, amazing, mindblowing masterpieces of aos or td maps or any kind of map type and this map didnt in my oppinion met any of the requirements, thats what i wanted to say, ok?

 

[VGsatomi]

You dont give DC to 'good' aos maps, 'good' td's,

When people say stuff like that, it means they they have something in mind. Lets hear it. If you don't, then you are simply not part of the solution, but part of the problem.

There are meny critiera I consider when issuing a DC. Here's what I go by:

-Terraining (how well the map looks in-game)
-Inginuity (How well did the author manipulated triggers to create unique effects?)
-Fun factor/gameplay (How fun the map is actually fun to play?)
-Replay Value (Is is worth coming back to after completing?)
-Use of imported matierial (Were imported models/skins implemented properly?)
-Rouph Edges (Green icons, spelling mistakes, ect. and other small things easy to look over were fixed? this typically shows how much time was put into a map, if there arent any)
-Single player compatabiliy (Can it be played by myself?)
-AI support (Was AI implemented so a full house of human players is not needed to create a worthwhile game?)
-Originality (is is a new/fresh idea that no one else has explored?)
-File size (Is the map B-net firendly?)
-Balancing (is the map fair and does not give certain players unfair advantages?)
-Optimization (not to be confused with optimizers...was the map optimized for online play, such as memory leaks plugged?)
-Finished/Play tested (Is the map complete and free of bugs?)
-Packaging (does the map look appealing to those browsing and/or gives an appealing description?
-Credits (Does the author give proper credits for imported meterial?)
-Theme (Did the map try to meet a specific theme? How well did it do that?)
-Compare/contrast (Does the map exceed the quality of others of the same genre?)
-Overall effort/Quality (Does it look like the map had a lot of time and effort put into it?)

It doesnt mean it has to excel in every single one of those catagoeies. This map surely did not meet all those, but it met enouh in my book. Some catagories do not apply, such as the multiplayer oriented ones (file size, ect) for when I test single player maps and the such.
-VGsatomi

 

[Mini-Me]

-Inginuity (How well did the author manipulated triggers to create unique effects?)
-Fun factor/gameplay (How fun the map is actually fun to play?)
-Replay Value (Is is worth coming back to after completing?)
-Use of imported matierial (Were imported models/skins implemented properly?)
-Single player compatabiliy (Can it be played by myself?)
-Originality (is is a new/fresh idea that no one else has explored?)
-File size (Is the map B-net firendly?)
-Optimization (not to be confused with optimizers...was the map optimized for online play, such as memory leaks plugged?)
-Packaging (does the map look appealing to those browsing and/or gives an appealing description?
-Compare/contrast (Does the map exceed the quality of others of the same genre?)
-Overall effort/Quality (Does it look like the map had a lot of time and effort put into it?)

Above what requirements this map didnt meet

-Terraining (how well the map looks in-game)
-Rouph Edges (Green icons, spelling mistakes, ect. and other small things easy to look over were fixed? this typically shows how much time was put into a map, if there arent any)
-AI support (Was AI implemented so a full house of human players is not needed to create a worthwhile game?)
-Balancing (is the map fair and does not give certain players unfair advantages?)
-Finished/Play tested (Is the map complete and free of bugs?)
-Theme (Did the map try to meet a specific theme? How well did it do that?)

Above what it did meet. Enough? Not in my books, but you are the one who decides, no point in me argueing with you. Its just another crappy map put on DC, and people know DC is not a place for only good maps so no harm done in here, the world doesnt end because of this, relax. I just wanted to bring my own oppinion out there of the map to help any people blinded by the DC.

 

[VGsatomi]

Those catagories are not "Yes/no". they all have degrees. You are still ignoring what I am asking of you. When you say stuff like this:

Its just another crappy map put on DC, and people know DC is not a place for only good maps

And this:

You dont give DC to 'good' aos maps, 'good' td's

...it implies you think I am not putting quality maps in the DC section...which also implies you know of better quality maps. For the second time, tell me what they are...or dont bother criticizing me again. Telling me my descisions suck without providing me an alternative does absolutely nothing. So I ask once more, be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
-VGsatomi

 

[Capcy]

Good Job VG...Now this map hmmmm if its to go from the movie then the keep needs to be redone because in the movie the deeping wall is only on 1 side of the keep...apart from that i see no problems tho i will keep testing it because i didnt get much chance before.

 

[Mini-Me]

You dont want to talk about this map in questions, 'helms deep, tft final'? You want to twist the conversation to other maps? You made this DC and it stays? But okay then, i'll play your game, here's a couple of good maps that got ignored:

The best resident evil map, very detailed and fun to play.

http://www.wc3sear.ch/index.php?p=Maps&ID=7085&sid=4b25571fcb16aae00edfcc2097021aac


Beam Ball, very original arena type of map which provides ton of fun, great gameplay.

http://www.wc3sear.ch/index.php?p=Maps&ID=7186&sid=4b25571fcb16aae00edfcc2097021aac

 

[VGsatomi]

The last two sentances I quoted from you were the ones that brougt the other maps into this. Okay, I'll give those two you linked to a try when I get a little more time.
-VGsatomi

 

[DeviRaco]

Mini Me You are telling VG to chill. When you bust into this forum degrading this map for a DC? And on top of that, you insult VG because you think in "your opinion" is a bad map? Afterwards you just basically try to worm your way out by saying that you can't argue with a Mod. VG has a lot of patients I can see that. It shows when she argues with you, how she doesn't put in insults every post about her "opinion". I bet that you are just tired of crap maps getting DC. But friggin aye, don't start with an insult to the map and the MoD who put it on DC. If you want to have an lasting affect on the DC, then try applying for a Mod. If you can't too bad. But don't think it's right for you just to come in here and post about your opinions about Mods and Maps that just put down people. You make comments so that the map makers can improve. You don't make comments to get people annoyed and put down. Post about how you feel about DC on the forums. Don't do this in the comments. :x :x :x

 

[Mini-Me]

And on top of that, you insult VG because you think in "your opinion" is a bad map?

Where did i insult VG? And is my oppinion wrong if its not favor of the map? Last time i checked 'negative' comments are not forbidden if they are not just a pure flame, which mine wasnt.

It shows when she argues with you, how she doesn't put in insults every post about her "opinion".

(maybe you got more better info but i thought vg is a guy, but w/e ), again, you imply that i put insults in my oppinions, where? Here comes an insult: you are so up VG's ass right now that your sencors are bit too hyperactive and you see my posts as an insult rather than critisism. "Defending" VG wont get you any points...

But don't think it's right for you just to come in here and post about your opinions about Mods and Maps that just put down people. You make comments so that the map makers can improve.

This is the place to post ones oppinions about the map, your post is is 0 posts, 1 comment (this one), so you maybe not familiar with the rules yet :? . If i were to start a new topic at the 'maps' forum just to say my comments about this map, a mod would surely come and tell me to post at the maps comments. And if you could read without seeing red, you could see that i point out the bad things meaning the creator should work on those, get it?

 

[Tunesmith]

First of all, sorry to the majority of people who come here to actually review this map, but I just would like to respond to MiniMe's comments.

Where did i insult VG? And is my oppinion wrong if its not favor of the map?

Here ya go:

Why did this get directors choise award? My guess is that vgsatomi is a lotr nerd fan.

Not sure about you, but I wouldn't like being called a "lotr nerd fan".

Also,

Here comes an insult: you are so up VG's ass right now that your sencors are bit too hyperactive and you see my posts as an insult rather than critisism. "Defending" VG wont get you any points...

An insult rather than criticism...well, look at the above quote.

" 'Defending' VG wont get you any points..."

Why would DeviRaco be wanting to get points with VG? If you look at the date he joined, it was on the same day that he posted below :roll:

I don't think he'd be sucking up tot he administrators after six hours of registration...

Anyway, sorry to take up space, downloaders, its just that I was reading the comments and got a bit annoyed with Mini-Me. I'll try out this map as soon as possible, but I'm tied up with homework and the Joe's Chronicles Series right now.

-Tunesmith

 

[Mini-Me]

sorry to take up space

Yes you should be sorry. You are not actually saying anything, just trying to make me look like the "bad guy" with useless quotes and vain comments.

 

[james1654]

Yes you should be sorry

Ive got 3 letters for that: w t f

This is not a hatemail site, that is just playing on hes freindly apologative atitude

You dont give DC to 'good' aos maps, 'good' td's

Hmmm, TD, that word seems rather familiar to me . . . ah yes, its because your getting personal about your Tower defenses that didn't get DC with vgsatomi. Dont go taking whatever problems you have out on other people. You owe whatever gender type-thing vgsatomi may be an apology, Wether its a girl or a boy . . . or something else . . . (joking, lol)

I allways did think vgsatomi was a guy, it acts like one.

But anyways, stop spreading hate and agresion in our peaceful place here. You don have loads of pr***s going round the coments section of your day of the cow td and pinking holes in it, and i bet that if your map had got directors choice, and you was proud of it, you would be furious if someone kept trying to take that away from you. I think you have something up against the map author and want to ruin hes enjoyement and pride of hes map getting DC. I know map author did not see this here, but its still just as bad for you to be so obnoxious and rude.

You are not actually saying anything, just trying to make me look like the "bad guy" with useless quotes and vain comments.

That is a disgustingly acusive thing to say, It seems that you really are starting to get agresive here. You better start watching yourself when you post horible coments like that, especially in front of a mod, or you will be watching your bad behaviour points, instead.

I having got anything against you, because, i havent even met you before, mini-me , but to see such horible behaviour to others here, really angers me.[/quote]

 

[Mini-Me]

I having got anything against you, because, i havent even met you before, mini-me , but to see such horible behaviour to others here, really angers me

How long did you hatch this masterplan? Because i clearly remember having james1654 in my clan, i clearly remember james1654 being kicked for flaming and bad behaviour, i clearly remember james1654 flaming me and some others, i clearly remember how james1654 came back couple of days ago at the clan channel making excuses about his bad behaviour and wanting back in the clan, i clearly remember i told james1654 to piss off.

Maps comments is not the place for your personal flame war against me james1654. Tell your comments about the map, dont try to start a holy war against me here. Whisper me at bnet like normal people do. But problem with 1 on 1 flaming is that you must flame with facts not lies, maybe thats why you prefer public flaming, more people to sell your lies to because we both now the truth.

 

[odoyle]

whoa whoa hold up here people. no offense mini me but youre fighting a battle you cant win bc everyones siding with VG. this all started because you didnt think this was a DC worthy map and criticized his/her (not sure about that one) ability to decide on DC maps, not to mention the fact that you insulted him/her. if you hadnt noticed, VG didnt try to argue with you but you encouraged it, he/she told you to give examples of good maps and it took you awhile to give them, but you did so that shouldve been all. anyone who said commented about it after that shouldve kept their mouths shut because it shouldve been over. and mini me you did deny insulting VG and said you were being victimized as the bad guy, instead of accepting it. i dont know you but correct me if im wrong, you sound like the kind of person who cant admit when theyre wrong. now please, drop this stupid crap before it goes any further...i for one have had enough arguing. this is supposed to be about the map, so everyone STOP THE VIOLENCE!!! CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?![/quote]

 

[Master-DNA]

Hey, I just wanted to say that this game is very good, better than many other Helm's Deep maps I've played. It definitely is worth DC, and it did meet many of the requirements (I think so atleast) that Mini-Me said it didn't, such as compare/contrast.

A few things I recommend changing (mostly AI related):
-The comp heros use their retreat horn too
quickly, I reccommend making it a percent
health if you used a trigger for that.
(maybe at 25% health use item Retreat Horn)
-The comp gets stuck at the Deeping Wall
sometimes once the bridge is blown up,
and although it kept me and my brother alive
when we played it, it probably was not
intended.

That's pretty much it, and again great job on the map!

 

[slake]

oooh LOTR i love these kind of maps and your is good
I mean its balanced but hm some custom models and spells maybe
overall i give a 3.5/5 (that means 4)

 

[lateris]

This map is good, though its not worth a directors cut. When i click "Directors Cut" i expect maps that ar not good, not great, they have to be breath-taking, epic. This isnt breath-taking. If this map would get a DC... Half of the maps on the hive are as good or better than this. If all those maps would get a DC then DC would lose its meaning, and i would have to go searching through all those maps for those few gold nuggets, that are now called DC. Its quite hard to explain(esspecialy since english isnt my native language), but i hope you understand what i wanted to say.

This map wasnt anything special, just another helms deep map.