Helms Deep 2015 v1.6

[Moderator]

22:18, 19th Nov 2013
Orcnet: Map reviewed by SeedingAethyr:

Hello Hebert09, at your request, I am rechecking your map, and am also going to make a full review this time. First of all, your Hive description is much better than before, and you have credited all of the makers of resources you have used. You've used attractive BBCodes, and you also have a nice map preview. Screenshots would be nice, but they're not required and your description is acceptable as it is. (Side: Again, thank you a ton for being agreeable about improving your description and adding full credits.) Now, my feedback of your actual map. Your loading screen description is good and I liked how you implemented a beginning cinematic to show off the map to the players. However, the timer in the top right and the multiboard kinda... eh, dampened the quality of the cinematic. It would be much better if you could create those right after the cinematic. It's also a bit off-putting to the Uruk-hai players to see the timer ticking down as they watch a cinematic. Also, it says in your quests that the Uruk-hai only have thirty minutes to breach Helm's Deep, but the timer starts at forty-five minutes (but they lose a minute because of the cinematic). Now, I know that the field the Uruk-Hai marched over was a lot like yours (empty with a few rocks and stuff) so I'm not going to criticize the terrain too harshly, but you could have used a bit of tile variation, like maybe a few patches of rough dirt. I like how you have global rain, but I don't think the map is dark enough. I think you could add in a bit of global black fog, enough so that the players can see enough to play well, but so that they feel as if it's actually nighttime and there is a terrible rainstorm. I'll say that your mountains on the sides look really nice (a few rocks on the cliffs won't hurt though) and that Helm's Deep looks epic. However, a few more "random stuff on the ground" doodads within Helm's Deep might not hurt, such as a sword lying on the ground, or small pieces of rubble. Also, I rewatched the Helm's Deep battle scene, and I don't believe that you've included Uglúk, or the raise area that he stood on. Uglúk is the Captain of the Uruk-Hai. Another thing I'm going to point out now is that you said "Uruk-Hia" in many tooltips. I googled it just to be sure, and it is Uruk-Hai. The Pikeman's tooltip and the Raider's tooltip contains this error. The Crossbowman also has a faulty buy tooltip. All of rossbowman is highlighted in yellow (the C is not highlighted). Now, gameplay. I liked the massive range of the ranged units, and I liked how the Uruk-Hai could endlessly produce units and the defenders could not. I have not tested the balance yet, but from reading damages and abilities I believe that the game is relatively balanced. I really liked how the defenders could open and close the gates, and I liked how you had a multiboard with killcount. Makes me think of that contest between Legolas and Gimli: Who could kill the most orcs? Although your abilities are only modified blizzard spells, the custom icons make them much nicer. I liked how the orc players could blow open sections of the walls and also attach ladders to them. There is also a random spearthrower within the Player 6 units guarding the gate; I think he should belong to Player 6 and you forgot to switch him? I also have a question. Where is Theoden? Have you forgotten him, or left him out due to filesize reasons? The music and all the models and icons really show how much effort you put into making this map look good.
I think this map looks pretty good, and it's fun. The idea wasn't that original, but it was made from scratch and it was pulled off well.
Hebert, I give your map a
3/5

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Were you the original creator of this helms deep map? It's really old.

 

[Theoden of KoMe]

Here is my review.

-Bad description
-No credits
Im gona play now and tell you more later.But since it is a beta and you have no credits then there are 2 strong reasons to get a rejection

Credits is when you say what you used (custom models,icons,skins,music...) and thank the creators who made them or just mention them at least.


Ok I just played it.I have my full review now.One thing is sure:This is his map , cause he might just took ideas from the older versions.

Nice things:
-Very good loading screen( from LOTRO )
-Very good opening(with saruman talking)
-Nice call using original Lotr models ( there is a skin for theoden and gimli but I don't remember the creator.Just look here at the skins section)
-Very nice terrain with the Keep and the deeping wall.

Bad things:
-You haven't mentioned credits... But I see you have used a lot Fingolfin's sindar elfs and uruks and Cloud wolf's skins with millitian and bandit rider
-Why no uruk heroes?
-Later game music is lame my friend.I don't want to hear the music of Frodo leaving Shire while im in Helms deep..... Frodo is the Black sheep of Lotr
-A great bug with elfs changing from bow to sword (it writes bear form......)( and I have to use it 3 times to swap............)
-Legolas isn't from Woodland Realm , he is from Wooden Realm and Haldir is from Lorien
-Gamling wasn't old at that battle.He was old 10 years later when Eomer become king....
-Spells have nothing creative or original.There are just the wrc spells with different names and decsreptions( some are half done too)

Suggestions:
-change the late game music please
-Mention those who have made the custom staff you used( credits )
-fix the spells and the ability of the elven archers swaping to swordsmen
-Fix legolas' name
-And Gamling's too
-And get the skins for Théoden and Gimli.

Overall I can give you a 3/5 but It's not the real rate cause you miss too much things.Im just good with the man who remade my Stronghold

 

[Rheiko]

Read this:
General Resource Rules
Resources must be complete.
Works in progress, alpha and beta versions must be posted in the relevant forum, or the pastebin.
You must give credit where credit is due.
If you use material made by somebody else, you must give credit to them in the description. This includes material created by Blizzard if it comes from a different game than Warcraft 3.
You must have permission to use any material contained in your resource.

[highlight]REJECTED[/code]

 

[Theoden of KoMe]

Its his map Rheiko.He is just missing all the other rules

 

[Rheiko]

still, the other rules

 

[Theoden of KoMe]

that what I saiz

 

[Hebert09]

I am working on getting all of the credits for models, skins, and music on the quest menu in the game as well as in the WC3 editor and description. This was just a beta test release to see how the scaling of the units and balance will work out. My next version will not be a BETA and will include credits and bug fixes. I just needed some testers to see how the balance worked. Yes this is my brand new Helms Deep i made it completely from scratch. While a few ideas may have come from older versions it is mostly original.

 

[Hebert09]

Oh and i tried multiple times to get the gimli skin to work but its a WC3 bug with the heromountainking texture. I opened WC3 viewer and tried every single path but none worked. Having a simular issue with theoden skin.

 

[Hebert09]

Thank you all for your help by the way it helps to improve the map. And sorry for posting it in the wrong spot Rheiko. Will message the creators of skins and mods today for permissions.

 

[Footman16]

You should've put this in map development if this isn't your release version. I suggest getting a group of testers as opposed to just letting a few select people download and play. You will get better results that way.

 

[Rheiko]

post your map here

 

[Hebert09]

Add as attachment?

 

[Rheiko]

for the map?
yes

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

First things first. Did you get permission of this old popular map from the original creator? Or are you the creator.

 

[Hebert09]

I am the creator. i built this completely from scratch. I started this map a couple of weeks ago in hopes of getting back into WC3. Started with nothing. I did take some traditional IDEAS from other maps but tried to keep it original. The terrain and triggers are mine but not the models skins or icons, i am giving credit to EVERYONE on this one. credit list will be long but complete.

 

[Legal_Ease]

Add as attachment?

No. You can create a link to the pastebin. Then you can take the map URL and put it in the image -

and use it as a Link. Click it to see how I did it.

But if this map is playable and fun, there is no reason you can't have it here. I have not tested it but if its nearly done except for balance I don't see why its not ready for release. Sometimes if you present a map, like its not a final version and say you want testers then you get guff for it. If the users above have tested it and think its not ready then I would take their word for it. They are all respected members and are telling you the truth.

Oh ya, ADD Screenshot!!!!!!

 

[Hebert09]

Version 1.0.5 is a full version. No longer in BETA testing. The map now works and has everything i wanted to put in it in and done. Enjoy

 

[SeedinAethyr]

Hello Hebert09, at your request, I am rechecking your map, and am also going to make a full review this time. First of all, your Hive description is much better than before, and you have credited all of the makers of resources you have used. You've used attractive BBCodes, and you also have a nice map preview. Screenshots would be nice, but they're not required and your description is acceptable as it is. (Side: Again, thank you a ton for being agreeable about improving your description and adding full credits.) Now, my feedback of your actual map. Your loading screen description is good and I liked how you implemented a beginning cinematic to show off the map to the players. However, the timer in the top right and the multiboard kinda... eh, dampened the quality of the cinematic. It would be much better if you could create those right after the cinematic. It's also a bit off-putting to the Uruk-hai players to see the timer ticking down as they watch a cinematic. Also, it says in your quests that the Uruk-hai only have thirty minutes to breach Helm's Deep, but the timer starts at forty-five minutes (but they lose a minute because of the cinematic). Now, I know that the field the Uruk-Hai marched over was a lot like yours (empty with a few rocks and stuff) so I'm not going to criticize the terrain too harshly, but you could have used a bit of tile variation, like maybe a few patches of rough dirt. I like how you have global rain, but I don't think the map is dark enough. I think you could add in a bit of global black fog, enough so that the players can see enough to play well, but so that they feel as if it's actually nighttime and there is a terrible rainstorm. I'll say that your mountains on the sides look really nice (a few rocks on the cliffs won't hurt though) and that Helm's Deep looks epic. However, a few more "random stuff on the ground" doodads within Helm's Deep might not hurt, such as a sword lying on the ground, or small pieces of rubble. Also, I rewatched the Helm's Deep battle scene, and I don't believe that you've included Uglúk, or the raise area that he stood on. Uglúk is the Captain of the Uruk-Hai. Another thing I'm going to point out now is that you said "Uruk-Hia" in many tooltips. I googled it just to be sure, and it is Uruk-Hai. The Pikeman's tooltip and the Raider's tooltip contains this error. The Crossbowman also has a faulty buy tooltip. All of rossbowman is highlighted in yellow (the C is not highlighted). Now, gameplay. I liked the massive range of the ranged units, and I liked how the Uruk-Hai could endlessly produce units and the defenders could not. I have not tested the balance yet, but from reading damages and abilities I believe that the game is relatively balanced. I really liked how the defenders could open and close the gates, and I liked how you had a multiboard with killcount. Makes me think of that contest between Legolas and Gimli: Who could kill the most orcs? Although your abilities are only modified blizzard spells, the custom icons make them much nicer. I liked how the orc players could blow open sections of the walls and also attach ladders to them. There is also a random spearthrower within the Player 6 units guarding the gate; I think he should belong to Player 6 and you forgot to switch him? I also have a question. Where is Theoden? Have you forgotten him, or left him out due to filesize reasons? The music and all the models and icons really show how much effort you put into making this map look good.
I think this map looks pretty good, and it's fun. The idea wasn't that original, but it was made from scratch and it was pulled off well.
Hebert, I give your map a
3/5

 

[Hebert09]

I appreciate the time you took to review my map Thank you. I will continue too work on adding more doodads and touching up some areas. Those are great ideas that will make the map look and play better. Also cleaning up descriptions and other small errors. Also, i am starting on the Uruk heros now, Ugluk and his captains. Was thinking off adding Ugluk as a raider and the others as one pikeman, one crossbowman, and one troll. These along with a lot of other updates to come in version 2.0.0.One thing, i am having problems with the Gimli and Theoden skins post update. The gimli one doesnt work at all and the Theoden one makes an invisible unit with the hero aura. Iv tried and tried again but cant get them to work

 

[Rheiko]

@SeedinAethyr
that was a wall of text D:

 

[Fingolfin]

-Gamling wasn't old at that battle.He was old 10 years later when Eomer become king....

As a swede, i can totally understand if anyone would think of Gamling as old, since his name literally means "old man" in Swedish. Not assuming the author speaks swedish - just some trivia.

 

[Theoden of KoMe]

yeah a guyinbnet told me that

 

[Fingolfin]

Alright, some feedback on the map:

*Why are the swordsmen and pikemen virtually the same unit? The only difference i can tell is that pikemen have 50 more hp and a tiny bit more damage. You should instead learn to use damage tables to, for instance, make the pikemen do a lot more damage against cavalry (you can find damage tables under advanced>gameplay constants). Also, i suggest making pikemen perhaps a bit slower, with slower attack speed, but longer range and more damage. Swordsmen should be a dps unit.

*I also think that the uruks die too easily. I dunno, maybe this is just the way these kind of maps work, but it makes it feel like a spamfest to me. There are other ways to balance it so that the defenders have a standing chance. You should also add a tool for commanding large groups at once - this is not very hard to trigger, you can check out Vuormalainens helms deep map for inspiration.

*Terrain just looks.. bad. I suggest you check out B2Ms high res pack and extract the wall models from there, it will make it look much better. Use walkable destructables and pathing blockers to make units be able to stand on them. Then check out the miscdata.txt hack to raise your terrain sharply instead of using cliffs. Also check the skins section for some new ground tiles.

*The ladder system is too limited and bugged. Try to find/make a better one that lets you place your ladders anywhere.


Now, for the pros, i think you did a nice job adding cinematics and sounds! Sure, the camera is a bit dodgy, but cinematics just add sooo much to the polished feel of a map.

 

[Hebert09]

Good suggestion Fin ill get right to it. This is my first created map so im still learning. I understand almost everything you said and they are good ideas. I will update the Uruks, make the cinematics have more depth, Double the amount of spots to use ladders (have already fixed the bug) and update the terrain. I do not know what you mean by "Use walkable destructables and pathing blockers to make units be able to stand on them."

 

[Rheiko]

what he mean is your unit can stand on the wall, you got it?
well, if you still don't understand i can attach an example picture for you

 

[Hebert09]

I got it and lemme say the deeping wall is. WOW so much better. Heres a little sneak peak of everything im working on. Player 1 Red has a torch bearer at start is you want to check out the new deeping wall cinematic. Units have also been balanced and now each unit has a purpose thanks to fins suggestion

 

[Hebert09]

Just redid the Cliffs using the miscdata changes. Actually looks like the mountain behind helms deep now

 

[Hebert09]

Version 2.0.2 RELEASED!!! Enjoy.

 

[Daffa]

Why there's 2 version of this map on the database?
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/helms-deep-v2-0-0-a-241776/?prev=status=p

 

[Hebert09]

Accidentally posted it and cant figure out how to delete it!

 

[Rheiko]

use the

button

 

[Hebert09]

Its gone, found a cpl small glitches in my game, minor errors in code that i have worked out and will be updating the map within the next couple of days.

 

[Vinz]

Hm.. Kindly post some screenshots so users would download your map more.

Also, may I ask if this has an AI? If it doesn't, it's fine, but AI is a huge plus. Possibly a 5/5.

 

[Hebert09]

Hey thanks for the feedback i will be working on getting some screenshots up soon. Adding a Uruk banner carrier that cost 10 lumber but gives uruks around him a damage and attack speed boost. Also added nice wooden towers and some multishot abilities. I am not the best at AI but will try and figure one out before the next release.

 

[Binsu]

The Hive Workshop Official

Map Reviewer: Hell_Master Map Name: Helms Deep v2.1.1 Map Author: Hebert09 Originality I dont see maps such as this that is well-made and especially it is LOTR. You really putted all the possible models that fits each other and you stayed original with how LOTR works. Score: 70/100 Presentation Map has a decent description though it could use some screenshots for it is needed on a map not actually needed but most of the time, users seeks for it. Also, it would be better if you put the Credit List into a Hidden BB Code tag to make it short and simple also to give spaces for more possible additions at descriptions. You could also experiement more with BB Codes and create your own template for example to stay original and at the same time creative dont you think? Score: 57/100 Design Minimap Preview Image and Loading Screen fits and is nicely done. Tool tips are well-done though you could have used some more formalities like adding more infos into it and going beyond on how Warcraft gives its description which is just pretty simply that they do wall of texts. Quest Menu is very informative of the game. No green icons when I played but if I see one, I'll possible state it in some updates. Score: 83/100 Terrain Terrain looks decent, it could use some more detailing most of all the Castlegrounds, you could have putted some Training Dummies and some Campfires for the camps. Also don't spam too much the Camps instead put them wisely. The whole field in-game is empty, I do know that is how Plains looks like but it could use some detailings to better make it unique from most of people's perspective of what a Plain is. Score: 62/100 Object Data Everything looks fine though I dont like how unit models somehow clashed in this one. Some looks warcraft-ish, some partially edited and some completly HQ like the Uruks and Sindar. If you could find some models to change those Warcraft-ish to fitting one it would be better. Score: 90/100 Gameplay Gameplay is not that unique and other Defenses has this but I like how you putted some custom musics that best fits the game and also some custom units with custom model to best explain them. Though that's the only thing that I can see unique from this. You could have added more. Score: 52/100 Suggestions were stated at Review. Final Score: 69.000/100 3/5 Vote for Approval Contact: (Visitor Message) / (Private Message) / (Map Reviewers)

 

[savinguptobebroke]

Hm.. Kindly post some screenshots so users would download your map more.

Also, may I ask if this has an AI? If it doesn't, it's fine, but AI is a huge plus. Possibly a 5/5.

Ai would be awesome

 

[K1LLTH3N00B]

3/5

-Rohan heroes are WAY too strong, especially Aragorn (100% cleave wtf?)
-Rohan can -open[any]gate and then -close[any]gate to full heal it
-Rain causes a lot of lag. Remove it or tone it down A LOT

 

[HOooDy]

On years , I haven't seen a game that looks like this : http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...43-a-146455/?prev=search=uthragon&d=list&r=20 , It's good but I want the "Helms of Deep Version" , Are you willing to make this one. I'm a terrainer if you need help just kindly pm me. I just love the maps that Tranquil's made.

 

[Hebert09]

Ok so a quick update. Finally fixed the bugs with the gates. Using reals and different triggers it has been fixed to work accurately every time. Added Warg Riders to give more diversity among the Uruks. Changed the music completely to give it an epic Two Towers feel. Cinematics have been improved as well. And the Big one everyone has been suggesting, an AI is NEAR COMPLETION! In the testing and balancing stages now but i must say with the all new Siege Mode selectable by game host at the start of the map makes this helms deep different and unique. Normal mode will still be available to the players as well. Hoping to have a release in the next couple of days so stay tuned and Thank You all!

 

[Hebert09]

Update 2.2.0 with Orc AI released. Be sure to check it out!

 

[fr14nd1]

It looks good from the screenshot, checking the map now

Just played the map, and... good, if I could say.
Some suggestion:
-Make the city entrance invulnerable, and then vulnerable after killing Rohan.
-Somehow the archer cannot attack the torch bringer. <--- This is not suggestion, of course.

This is all I can give for now.

 

[ss4gogeta]

Hey im also a map maker and i have a ton of ideas/codes/models/terrain for lotr if you want help suggestions or a co-maker let me know at [email protected] (my gaming email)

 

[Fingolfin]

I really, really like your progress on this!! I haven't tried out the latest version, but from the most recent screens, terrain looks MUCH better than it did at the start (and i'm not just saying this because you're using my models, lol). AI for orcs also sounds great, it is a pretty simple thing to add in a map like this, but most mapmakers seem to skip it.

Good work and keep it up!

 

[useminename]

Well i like this map, but its very lag here

 

[Vinz]

It will now be much more easier to put up a defense because of the ramp. <3

Now if only I could micro like AI. ;_;

 

[InfernalTater]

File Size: 8191 KB (Max allowed on BNET is 8 MB, or 8,192 KB)

Cutting it a bit close, eh?

Definitely going to try this out.

 

[raisen]

Woah... Woah...!
The Terrain is good and this gotta be fun!

 

[raisen]

Oh! BTW... you must Optimized the file size!