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General Gameplay Improvement Suggestions

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Guess who's back with more controversial/selfish suggestions . I know I know Z, you're thinking, or will quite likely be thinking after reading this, that you shuda ignored this annoying guy at that other post, and save yourself the trouble. You'd be better off too, trust me. But I take pleasure in annoying ppl, to a reasonable extent :ogre_hurrhurr:

If you had done so, I'd just go to my emo corner and get over it in a coupla months. But you didn't, so here I am.

On to business now:


-> I'm not imposing, demanding or expecting anything. I also can imagine possibilities only so much, for I know zilch abt coding. Purely voicing ideas, since I want the game to improve in ways I think can be useful.
-> I'm fine with one or all of suggestions being 100% ignored/rejected.
-> With questions, I'd really appreciate precise answers though, despite being able to get over it if possibly ignored, due to any reasons you might prefer to not answer because of.

About questions, I think someone has to ask these anyway, and like always that someone has to be me. We srsly lacking solid info base for this game.

Wheher'z houwrrr buloody WeekeeaH payge naaooo Vestra-chuwaan !!?! :nemad: :ogre_rage: xD


Anyhoo, here goes nothing:



In light of your possible deity system addition, add deity of the monsters -> sacrificial item/paid gold to re-summon/summon (outside) bosses. (Name it.. :fp: "Vestra, the Goddess of Raging Monsters", if you will.

And/Or increase chance of scroll drop and/or respawn time of outside bosses. After a coupla hundred farming games
I'm now almost sure you have added diffculty by reducing drop chance of scrolls (at least, if not all items) when the related
class is in fight (or at least in game).



Add character requirement to reset dungeons. I think dungeon skills are too easily farm-able, while more important usually, whereas outside skills make you lose hair. It could require mana, gold, anything.



Increase ms of poison clouds and decrease their appreaing frequency to encourage ppl actually
try and zigzag them rather than depending on temammate shield/mend and or restat/hp pot
or feline + pot (I do like the fact that previous efforts on farming feline reflexes pay off here
, but still). Make characters lose support spells (shield/mend/fury) when entering class quest cell, or arena. Like
being unable to take merc, this is supposed to bring out the exact amount of challenge intended. Also increase difficulty of Cleric class quest if possible.




Toughen up Andy-chan 20 to 40%, (just hp/armor or add a (chanced or active) spell to heal, I mean come on, no boss cept for Maluvu-chan knows healing spells? Damn undead illiteracy. :)
Some kinds of rejuvenation would fit perfectly imo, since he is a shadow user. Generally I think all would agree that Andy is too quickly kill-able (and his zombies, too easily avoidable) for being one of the only 3 mc-dropping bosses, even though his dps is remarkably good and his rather-whimsical random and fast bolt casting makes people break a sweat.

His despicable slowbies, could possibly "steal health" for their beloved master, by attacking, or converting the damage we do to them to Andy's HP (or even make him/themselves boost up in some other way, e.g. 2% Attak+Move speed per successful hit; they are way too Slowbie-newbie-ish as they are tbqh). Input damage->Heal system, after a certain period of time (good cause makes AOE dps'ers think twice before casting one too many AOE) (u can make them disappear fast or low hp so that when they die they restore health to him).. or even explode (not a good idea since dps would be too much).. many possibilities.



Enable AI control system, preferably on mercs, but also would be beneficial on bosses, for dps/resist testing. In merc's case I mostly am irritated by how randomly Troll merc uses barbed arrow when I solo-farm and need him to keep it for bosses, not the damn lowbie mobs on the way :).
Even with spam "retreat" and -pet to defensive it gets used sometimes.



I'm sure it has been mentioned b4, but plz add a bit more diversity to monk items. Monk's the only one who gets no weapons/offhand (Misc) from Trade Route or Fjords areas. And there are only 2 Misc for him, if I'm not mistaken. Intel-based possibility of build for him also wud be very great,
I understand might get it OP a bit with evasion you get with Steel Body off 0.07 int, but I really am interested in int-monk atm. On a very subsidiary note, he is considered by most, least useful team char of all 10. Perhaps better mass-aggro control, and/or buffing others off their aggro wud make him better. I might very well be asking for too much here.



Add some kind of info icon and/or legend icon/buff icon with explanation/resume on bosses distinguishing their role
in story possibly, and/or their stats, especially resists and CC/CM/Eva hidden stats. Imho, plot element, is falling behind, losing badly to tactical area/dungeon/boss fights designs. To me, story is the main immersion/deep interest factor of any game. That and depth of character design. I would kill to know why Lt is called Lt, and who is his superior o_O the hypothetical General :). If there are army ranks, then this can't really be an army of mindless undead, spinning off Gaia's act of retaliating on human and other creatures. I'm already imagining very likely story twists.



Design or introduce please, somewhere one can read talent tree specifications. Currently only way is to get 30 lvl char of each of 10 types, and I, being the insufferable noob that I am, almost always reset skills
twice or thrice depending on gameplay/team. That or put a gun to Vestra's head and don't move it till he finishes up dat Wikia page.



Following 8th suggestion, please lower restat cost. At least by 10-15 % if possible.
And/or (still reminding u, I dunno what Quest Tokens are meant for) add an "affinity/relation rank" system towards all seller/trainer/re-trainer NPC's (and even deities, something like "holding their favor" (only one at a time possible for deities). It does look like Skyrim's "speech" system yes, but I only remembered that While I was writing this number 9, so it's not just messing up games together, I thought of it cuz most 35+ chars currently have too much gold and really no need for stash upgrade (50k one), so with this base prices can even go higher -> more difficulty, and more rewarding quest completion system, over a simple xp/gold reward system.
Affinity would add a <enter preferred amount here> percentage "discount" and/or even chance to bargain with them for much more affordable prices for any spell/reset/lewt purchases. It adds choice element, to game play. Go longer, easier way and earn money farming, or go shorter, riskier way and feel smug and appreciate teammates that helped u with getting quest done, and getting good rewards.



Add betting system :). Random Gambler NPC's or w/e suits you, if at all. (Player vs Player, or NPC vs PC). I leave details to ur imagination.
Actually I don't like pvp fights or arenas/team pvp's. Only reason I started and am doing gaia's atm and not bored of it like few others I know is cuz perfect team work is always pleasurable, no matter the number of times I have done same boss.
And it's strictly personal opinion, but PvP's are pointless, add force-strip team beach ball in its stead for all I care :).



Make stealing twice or thrice possible, but player-dependent (I mean each player can only steal a certain mob once). Like all main aspects of game (dps/tank/heal) that have "main" and "off" in a given team (mt/offt etc), I think classifying possible steal-able items to scale with number of steals, would be very interesting. Currently common rule is roll before boss fight to see which of the possible 2 or 3 thief class chars in team may steal from the boss. This could put the roll loser in a better position too.

If you specify and increase chance of "material" steal-only to lower level mos/areas, I firmly believe it would stop them getting obsolete and unappealing. It ould encourage high lvl thieves help farm people with low level chars, much more than already. Even better if NOT steal-only. Just an idea, but if you could reverse material drops in contrast to gear drops it would be great, with problem: material drops from high level areas would be useless. The workaround could be "specification". I.e., weed only drops at, say, low lvl spidies.



I have no idea about merc main stats, and even less than no idea abt their resists, but would be a minorly good
thing to add resistance based on recruiter's char's hp/wis.. if not already so (cuz I beleieve char's hp has no effect as it is now).



(Don't flame me for this), but I think Crus should get small AoE with taunt instead of +2 second on Leadership talent tree (which nearly makes his tactics at offtanking at lady problematic).
I think that wud be a good solution to his wave/mob group "starting" problems where he cant gather waves for a good crucify, after loss of Shout spell. At waves, it's doable with (one attack with heroic + shield slam another + hateful strike the third mob) and then walk back to
Gaspode and do a crucify. But at standing waves post-Liutetant, if he is the only tanker in team, people need to wait for him
to simply walk into and through mobs to the rear side of them and crucify then, for max number of targets aggro'ed.




If possible, add some more aggro holding capabilities to Servant of Nature.. something along lines of auto-triggered howl of terror (even if with no secondary effect, purely to get aggro off hunter self) or a sacrificial/protective skill, hunters, as they are, can't focus too many str do to high dps.
Hunter is perfectly fine imo, just lacking choice of who holds aggro now atm, even aggro prob is a very minor one. (Yes I know AoE Claw strike with 5th point of Animal Bonds talent tree could probably fix that, but hey who got a 46 lvl char now :) . I also Have considered range effect on aggro,
but high CC with hunter always pisses in one or two mob's coffees, and Gawd help you if they are Ghoul/Basher and have been spawned on the wrong side today :). I'm not being dramatic, good shops (unlike me) know to shield/mend hunters and net + reflexes always add survivability options. Suggesting this just and purely, for better control.



Following 14th suggestion, add summonable " (Harpy<<<best/Golden) Eagle" to hunter class and transfer the PL aura to it. Simply cause it feels epic to have a pet Eagle :goblin_jawdrop:, and it can slightly nerf the aura, which imo is too good to be always there -> (42 wroth agility per team member just by CC 7%, and 84 agi worth to team at Eva 7%, at level 36 average, given the formula I guessed stands correct.)

You can also add invisible bonus stuff (invisible dropapble items if that's even possible, and/or randomly appearing bonus mobs, which would require Eagle, with a supposed "Eagle Eye" passive to be there to kill and get benefit. Hunter would be encouraged to summon eagle for team, and wolf for survivability. I have even thought of a rename for Pack Leader if it is to move to beloved hypothetical Eagle: Apex Predator. Eagles don't get hunted, they only hunt, far as I know :). And Harpy Eagles are fracking Royal uber mega hunters, ever so augustly serving the food chain at the very top.

Along same lines, perhaps even replace "efreet" with Black Mamba or something like that, which would mesh well together with the poison on Venomosus Keeper bow, resummonable to more than once, for some change in monotonous one-summon per char pace of game. Would totally fix my personal dps probs with max-int dudu. Dorylus, as I figured today with help of my friend, is also an interesting wild card :) but Imma plead silence as to how to use it on this one. (*whispering: they can have stun effect and be used as both player or mob summoned creature, even as Invisible, doing short stuns and bites, making people realize when they need supposedly to-be-implemented wards/Eagle Eye. Ok this is getting Out Of Hand. Stopped).



I know this has been suggested, but count this as a "for" vote on that: please very slightly improve Assassin class mana management capabilities.I cbb with the method you wish to sue



Make Zombies bigger :). They are hard to click, is all. That, or make me less lazy (not gonna happen).



Add (or edit some existing quests into) few repeatable quests to enable better pre-d3 and even mid-d3 gold farming if that won't mess up with your difficulty preferences. I know Now, that spell CC and spell CM, also this repeatable quest idea seems coming from tKoK, but I had never played it until a week ago (after posting Stat Balance thread) and no my intention, again, is not making games alike. It could kinda be needed and/or fun-adding to farm games. Ofc, the difficulty could be fixed with making those specific quests, much harder, so as not to lose effort->gain usual pace, and reassure team play status and importance. Reason I didnt even got bother ed to play tKoK even as test game more than 10 mins half-afk, was no story as my friend told me:) I just love your game for having that element, plus well-chosen OST.



Devise, if doable at all ( I know sounds far-fetched), an anti-ninja system where rolling with command : -roll mana crystal or -roll mc, would automatically add a lumber point to player with highest number. Same with items to Main Inventory, which if they can't equip it would automatically drop with game item class restrictions. Preferably don't add auto-saving after successful slot plantation since there might always be re-considerations /mistakes. In same accordance, a -roll sell + item name, for adding to backpack.
Ignore this if it is impossible. But to me this wud be greatest improvement of them all, since I won't have to watch replays, investigate and judge and kick people, as a team manager, and team play will follow naturally.



Rejuvenation Pots work this way currently:
Using Rej pots, does not cool down itself or any other pots. Using any HP pots, cools down itself and its type, still does not affect anything else. Using mana pots on the other hand, cools down Both Mana type pot s and Reju Pots.
Also, at least for goof-proof-ness sake, add some kind of cooldown to Reju Pots, to not enable possible unintended or intended spams, and hence waste of 300 gold. I think we all agree it needs a cooldown fix, if not a nerf as well, amount-wise or cost-wise or both even. If it's perfectly intentional and preparation material for later versions, do excuse my unwise hint.



Add randomness to waves at Lieutenant. One, it would prevent afk'ers and slacking, as well as repeating the exact same goddamn spells over and over. Two, "surprise" is always the most challenging/enjoyable factor there is to fights. Design a good number of hidden wild cards, that might or might not randomly appear at mob spawning spots, and at d3 waves with some dangerous/tactical unique spells, that would require people to improvise/decide instantaneously and always keep some of their best skills trigger-ready for such challenges, rather than blowing tiny skellies away with meteor when the mood strikes. Special resistances could be very effective.. or insane armor/evasions, you get the idea.



Add energy focus capabilities, if not messes up with your game style. E.g., a monk would be able to channel their Qi/Chi energy before a boss fight, at a great cost (hp/all of mana, sth like that) which would intensely amplify their some kind of instant damage output. Same with arcane power would be great with mages, ofc again with a high cooldown, good enuf risk, and high cost. It could even be added outside the 11-skill box, beside rest e.g... maybe, with your deity system, this special skill could be related to which deity your loyalty lies with. E.g., a necromancer swearing allegiance to dark deities can before a boss fight, channel dark energy and summon a malicious and powerful creature, instead of "meteor" which really makes necro and sorcerer much Too alike.


...


Add a playable Hatsune Miku, or even cuter, hachune miku, definitely with Negi-Slap spell and a fresh Negi as one-handed weapon to the game, to fulfill my individual wapanese-weeaboo fetishes and/or feed my love to troll. You were warned.. yet you opened it.. YHBT. Just for the LuLz and thanks for your patience reading all of this. Blame my insomnia, and epic music.


>>>====================================================<<<



Does ArP work this way: Each char's [max AP (base and bonus AP) + Arp] - mob armor = damage per "attack" (or damage per "any Physical damage"?)
My question here mostly lies on the bonus/plus AP actually working or not in that system. I have a monk wih 16 to 18 (+8) AP and 11 ArP. Damage dealt
on crabs with 5 armor is 24 or 25 on non-criticals. 35 to 37 - 5 = 32 to 35 is supposedly logical damage. 24 to 25 damage that he does really makes me believe
the bonus AP does not go anywhere in that formula.
OR:
(Possibly highest) ArP in team breaks (intangibly reduces) mob's armor and makes others do more dps? (I highly doubt this wud be the case tho.)



Even though there is no critical healing enabled in Gaia's, and though I must admit I realy like
the slightly-volatile and random (on spells if i'm not mistaken) -/+ 10 % chanced difference on spells heal/dmg number,
(I mean like when my 111 SP'd shop heals between 500 and 600 rather than fixed 555) I gotta ask, is that variation chance or amount controlable by stats?



Am I correct abt this:

Elemental means all non-phyical, which includes:
Shadow/Magic/Holy/Lightning/Fire/Water

Cuz the word Element makes it sound like lightning/fire/water only.



Can evasion enable you to miss criticals and bashes by ghouls/skelly bashers (and generally any other mob with such skills)
or are they (both crits and bashes if there is any on them)
coolodwn'ed skills like ogers/makruras/gnolls do the bash?



Is this true:

[You have added diffculty by reducing drop chance of scrolls (at least, if not all items) when the related
class is in fight (or at least in game).]



Are these exact actually:

Eva = [5 + (Agi/ 2 x Sqrt level)]

Atk Spd bonus from agi is 2%



Do minions Only follow char's CC with abilities that char uses itself? Or do minions have
same evasion and CC/CM generally as Char? Or none at all? Cuz I'm sure Claw Strike can crit, but dunno about anything else (e.g. necro's skellies).


Like usual, sorry for lengthy post, it was Intended -,-.

Special thanks to Doubtful for helping me with this post.
Honorary thanks to Vestra, for biting lips and bearing with my trolls, & hopefully for not cutting me, while she is at it.
Thank you for your attention. I'm fully prepared to get banned now.
Cheers.
 
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Zwiebelchen

Hosted Project GR
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Joined
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Messages
7,236
I will only answer the questions so far, as I don't have that much time to answer all of your suggestions. But I appreciate the effort you put into this post.
I'll probably answer to the suggestions tomorrow.

Q1:
The amount of damage dealt is calculated by this formula:
-> damage = Max[Attackpower - Max{(Armor - ArP), 0}, ArP]

Q2:
Depending on the skill or ability, its either +/-10% or +/-20% and can not be affected by any stat.

Q3:
Elemental means all types of damage except physical.

Q4:
You can not evade physical abilities.
Exception: monks can evade physical ability DAMAGE (not the side effects!) when having the talent that allows for this.

Q5:
Why the heck should I do this? o_O

Q6:
Doesn't matter. 1.1n will have changed formulaes anyway. But just for records sake, the formula is the same as CC, just halfed.

Q7:
hidden stats of pets, minions and mercenaries depend on the specific pet. Some of them are static, some are affected by the sum of STR, AGI and INT of the hero.
 
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I'll go over the suggestions Kyuzo although my input is barely valid really. As for the wiki thing, I got lazy, but I'm, more than happy to edit anything you want to type up for it. I intend to work on it post 1.1n probably.

#1: No need for this. You can always fight the world bosses in lan, then rm. I'm 99% sure there's no reduction on drop chances based on classes being in game, it just seems that way sometimes. The drop rate of all skills, correct me if I'm wrong zwieb, is 10% so essentially getting them in either area is just as hard. Anyway, a system like this would be pointless imo but as always these come down to Zwieb.

#2: A system like this would suck for the player who has to reset the dungeon, it would just lead to arguments. The skills are indeed easily farmable, but for most characters, both skills are quite important anyway so I don't really see a problem here.

#3: The whole 'removal of buffs on entering a class quest thing' should definitely be in place. As for the poison clouds, its complete possible with enough con and rest but any changes on this come down to zwieb. I quite like the randomness of this quest though, as the others all have very specific patterns, even the cleric quest, and are easily managed via those patterns.

#4: I've always liked the andy fight and found it very well balanced. All the fights are easy to manage if you know what you're doing. however, having the zombies steal health for andrazzar is a great idea, it would suck for melees though.

#5: Having control over a mercenary would be really handy but I feel zwieb wants them to have their own AI as they are, in a sense, their own person, not your hero. It's an rpg and although its a frustrating system, I quite like it. Maybe we can add something more than '-pet' to manage their skills, other certain commands or something that would stop them casting spells or make them run a distance further back manually.

#6: Pretty sure this is happening in 1.1n.

#7: More connection to storyline would be nice, some more quests in mytargas to explain backstories maybe? The thrill of building towards a boss is fairly exciting. That poor damn troll needs a quest I still demand this. As for stats and stuff, I'd like to grab them and skill details for enemies for the wiki some time Zwieb.

#8: Being able to see the talent trees for a class before it's level 30 would be nice if that's possible Zwieb.

#9: No to both man, the reset system is fine as it is, the price isn't too hefty. A free reset scroll on class change would be nice for those who made mistakes, or a monk, which is a mistake in itself. Other than that, they're manageable prices. As for relationships with sellers, that's up to zwieb but it would involved more balancing on the gold curve which is a bitch as it stands already.

#10: Some minigames would be awesome, I think I approached zwieb for shit like fishing and mining but in the end this isn't runescape, however if materials came from more sources than just monsters I think that would really benefit gaias. Other things to do rather than fighting are always nice in games, even gambling. Although, unfortunately, with a save load system, gambling systems can often be exploited. Other minigame ideas would be nice though. Fishing, harvesting, mining. Doit.

#11: The steal system is fine, I strongly encourage your group to embrace the idea of having the stolen item as simply another item in the drop pool, as if a lorekeeper bard was there. You'd roll for the second drop off that wouldn't you, why not the steal one? Just because someone plays the laziest class in the game and uses a one click skill doesn't suddenly grant them the item imo. As for the materials thing, you can buy low mats anyway. I'll be going over that shit later.

#12: I reckon a scaling resistance on mercenaries/pets is extremely important, as their dodging AI seems fairly average as it stands but i suppose we should see how they interact with later conflict before asking for changes now. Knowing mercenary stats would be handy for the wiki though.

#13: Yeah, change that taunt talent to make taunt aoe, and for the love of god make taunt generate a small amount of agro so people have the option for a alternative to demoralising shout. I've never liked how you can taunt something, and then it's just like OH LOL ILL FORGET ABOUT YOU if you didn't generate any more agro on it.

#14: No comment really, I reckon rangers should be able to out agro the wolf. Having skills that increase it's agro later would be nice though.

#15: Some more summons for a hunter would be pretty awesome, as for the other shit, no no no no, stupid dudus or w.e.

#16: God damn you have so many suggestions. Get more wisdom.

#17: Zombies could be a little bigger, I just think they're meant to be in line with people. I've always found their colour against the terrain extremely frustrating. They are hard to click/see sometimes.

#18: Repeatable quests for farming would be handy.

#19: No need, just don't play with dicks.

#20: This item, as it stands, is extremely fucking stupid. I'm assuming it's a bug that's been fixed in 1.1n. If it's not, we're going to have a serious chat Zwieb, a serious one. Seriously serious. Seriously, seriously, serious. siriuz.

#21: The only real purpose of waves is to apparently be a time sink. Although having random waves sounds neat, it could potentially fuck over certain team setups, which would cause a bit of hassle.

#22: nononono, no more fancy buff things to improve damage, monks are shit because each class is better, they don't need chi to kick ass. They need 1.2.

#X: That world is mine song is extremely catchy but if someone brings any animeish shit into this game I will cut them so hard it will be roughly sexual.

cbf spoiler
 
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Zwiebelchen

Hosted Project GR
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7,236
about your suggestions:

1: There will not be a deity system

2: People will exploit remakes to avoid this

3: If people want to avoid the quest by bitchslapping it, I can not stop them, really. I can not remove buffs from players that easy, unfortunately

4: I'll think about it, though it might mess up balance for groups who just started doing d3 and are not geared properly

5: I think the pet AI is pretty good in its current state... I don't want to make it unneccesarily complicated. Also, I am limited to two pet control buttons due to UI reasons

6: Why should Monk get items from trade route or Fjord areas when you need to be level 25 to become a monk? That makes no sense and would just add junk drops. Monks got the same number of misc items as any other class (if we only consider 25+ level items)

7: The main storyline will be continued in 1.2, with Gaias Retaliation quest part III and up. The superior of the Lt is pretty much Andrazzar, as the final boss of D3.

8: Not sure what you mean... every info needed is in the talent tooltip. I think if people really want to decide their class based on the talents, a wiki can do the job.

9: Having branching quests (not sure if that was what you meant) would be too complicated to make; the quest system is pretty limited, especially due to save/load limitations.
Dynamicly adjusting prices in shops is not possible without copying the items multiple times. And this would defile the map with a lot of unneccesary junk data

10: Gambling is indeed a good idea for a sustainable money sink. I'll possibly add a diablo-esque gambling system in the future.

11: There are always skills that don't stack well. That's also why there are choices in skills. If you can't steal because someone other did, simply unlearn the skill and get a different one and be happy having one battle skill more than your mate ;)
I recently increased material drop chance for almost all trash mobs and bosses. Its very easy to get the materials you need now, so I don't see a reason to make it even more simple.

12: resistance of all pets including mercenaries scales with the level of the hero

13: offtanking lady by timing the taunt before she casts mark of the vampire was never intended by me. And because of that I don't really care about how that talent affects this. It was a creative use of game mechanics, though, hence why I did not take any measures to prevent players from doing so. But I'm not going to encourage it either.
AoE taunt might be an addition on future skills.

14: There already is a range component to threat generation. The pet makes soloing ridicolously easy for hunters; I think holding back with dps somehow to slow soloing speed in order to not get aggro is a good trade for that.

15: Pack leader is possibly one of the strongest passives in the game right now. But I think this is okay, considering that hunter somewhat was the underdog class until now. Eagles... I don't know. Maybe as a new skill for the future updates, but definitely not harpies.

16: The "Into the Shades" skill which will allow assassins to go in and out of stealth in combat will render mana management almost trivial, so just wait for the future updates.
Also, nobody prevents you from putting some skills from CON into WIS. You gotta love the additional resistances anyway.

17: Hmm... I don't know if I want to pollute D3 with even bigger unit models...

18: Repeatable quests... I don't know. Most of the time they suck balls. But maybe with 1.2 content.
I had this idea about a "weekly" quest (will refresh every 7 ingame days, will only get active after 7 ingame days after the game starts. so no point in remaking the game...).

19: Anti-ninja systems usually just make things unneccesarily complicated. I want to game to be as easy to learn as possible.
Simply don't play with dicks. :)

20: The CD of rejuvenation potions is obviously bugged. It was never intended for them to not have a cooldown and this will be fixed in the next update.

21: I'll add more randomness to D4 and future content, but existing content will probably not get changed. Waves have static mob types for balance reasons.

22: Has too much in common with talents or abilities. I also think that the amount of possible customization for heroes is more than enough now (stats + talents + abilities + equipment).
I'd rather add more options to talents and equipment choices than tacking another system on top of it.


That's all for now. Sorry to turn you down at most of the points. I liked the gambling idea alot, though and will probably implement it (or something similar) in the future.
 

Zwiebelchen

Hosted Project GR
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As long as you keep in mind that gambling would be exploitable via reloading.
I pretty much got an easy solution for this: By having an array of custom random seeds generated upon char creation, then give this seed a specific ID and store the ID to the save code.
That way, the "next" item is determined, but still different for every character. Remaking would be pointless, as you will always get the same item after every remake.

The only way to get a new "random list" of items would be to create a new character. Probably not worth it, don't you think? ;)
 
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I pretty much got an easy solution for this: By having an array of custom random seeds generated upon char creation, then give this seed a specific ID and store the ID to the save code.
That way, the "next" item is determined, but still different for every character. Remaking would be pointless, as you will always get the same item after every remake.

The only way to get a new "random list" of items would be to create a new character. Probably not worth it, don't you think? ;)

Fancy, fancy indeed. I'm assuming the item would also be counted as 'saved' after it has been gambled for?

Sounds like an awesome system man, looking forward to playing with that.

However, couldn't someone just gamble twice in a row, and get a different item on the second roll? Or would it be a complete, cycling list of say, 10 gamble items or something? Or however big the pool is.
 

Zwiebelchen

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Fancy, fancy indeed. I'm assuming the item would also be counted as 'saved' after it has been gambled for?
Yes. For the same reason purchased items are rendered 'saved'.

Or would it be a complete, cycling list of say, 10 gamble items or something? Or however big the pool is.
This. It's just a matter of making the list very long.
 
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That sounds good, but it could be pretty rough on people, say someone scores the items they need in one roll, someone else gets it in 200. I suppose it will have varying factors but I'm liking the idea. What about level scaling etc? Would it be one giant pool from 1 - 50, or would it be a scaling pool.

Also, would it involve a code wipe ):
 

Zwiebelchen

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That sounds good, but it could be pretty rough on people, say someone scores the items they need in one roll, someone else gets it in 200. I suppose it will have varying factors but I'm liking the idea. What about level scaling etc? Would it be one giant pool from 1 - 50, or would it be a scaling pool.

Also, would it involve a code wipe ):
A scaling pool, depending on the input gold ;)

Basicly, you can select a level range like item level 1-10 or 11-20 and pay a fixed amount of gold for that. You basicly then have access to the entire item pool of that level range with varying percentages depending on the quality of the item (green, blue, red).

With the current method of implementation (at least if I didn't miss anything when thinking about it), I don't think a code wipe would be neccesary.


However, a gambling system requires for a high variety of items available to really make sense. I don't really expect it to be released before 1.2.
 
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Fair enough, otherwise people could just roll through 10 swords and score themselves a phoenix. Hell, if it gives you more reason to make shitty early game items I'm up on that. The cost will have to be pretty hefty though.

Would you consider gamble only items, just to spice things up?
 
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@ 1: Well, I had some hopes there, but it's fine, I'll wipe it off my mind.

@ 4: Thx. Much like d1/d2 they shouldn't get there unprepared. In most farm games we kill Protector many times before Ancient one. I think two bosses are enough, perhaps with tiny more stealable items added, to get them enuf gear for some srs fight at Andy.

@ 6: Well, all other chars do, e.g., someone who Knows he wants to go Crus, won't most likely choose Gnoll helmet over Sergeant's.

@ 7: What about some kind of lore where you can provide background, and or stats for bosses? A book with some info. An NPC or anything of that sort.

@ 8: I mean, if there is a way to know what talent you will get before going to 30 and reading it, you can avoid unnecessary restats.

@ 9: How about some nice items, half of which are rare drops, and/or sepcific to quest completion as reward, rather than just xp/gold; or in addition to it.

@ 11: I don't think anyone has ever even used blurred motions, so I'm not sure if you're serious abt "and be happy having one battle skill more than your mate ;)"
What's more, stealable items are just so good, constant roll losers will definitely feel bad abt it.
About materials,.. so I guess there is no way to re-add appeal to farming low level mobs.

@ 12: I think merc's need overal toughening, if they are meant as replacers for players lacking in team. Other than tank and, slightly the healer shaman, the two others die a bit too fast.

@ 14: A critical fire arrow even can out-aggro claw strike, and hunters have much CC for this to go ignored, and claw strike cools down faster so fire arrow will get back aggro when people spamming spells fast o a difficult boss. And as it is, hunter's only way to not die is with help of Servant. I still insist it is needed.

@ 15: I meant "Harpy Eagles" or "Golden Eagles". Both apex predators, pretty majestic looking too. With what I suggest, (14 + 15) PL aura won't go off, just gives more option to hunter. Like when solo farming, one can choose merc for tank +eagle for aura, or wolfie for tank (with better aggro stealing capabilities) to prevent gold loss. In a team in d3, sometimes wolf just dies, and doesn't do much at all. Also with addition of Eagle you will have many possibilites (like passives on Eagles). I just "suggested" Eagle Eye for seeing possible invisible stuff, there could be a lot of other things.

@ 18: Weekly sounds pretty nice.

@ 22: Fair enough, but the four other classes (other than mage) get "sufficiently" distinguishable at class change. I still think necro needs a tiny bit more uniqueness.

I can't believe myself, but I miss something like "Limit Break" from Twilight's Eve. I so epically crave something extreme to redefine limits and break monotonousness of how you can get stronger, and also add true uniqueness to your main and favorite char.

After all the time you put into gear/skill/gold hunt and so many d3 runs.. mc and gold become pointless sort of. Only thing is Exp.. I wish you could keep thinking about a Gaia-style Ultimate skill, or a novel way to improve chars up to new extremes. Talents are doing it so-so, and getting from 38 to 42 e.g., will be quite difficult I'd wager. Still, it's not difficult enough, or new enough.. there was also something else in Teve ORPG, that was unique in all RPG's I've played (few, believe me, but good ones) -> The mage there had an ulti that needed lumber point to cast and it was also only farmable at extremely hard dungeons. With the wipe of deity system, I am having a hard time thinking of something unique and different for Ulti's. Perhaps something "Titan-related (damn now I'm going for god of war :)) since there is Gaia here involved.

Just thinking about it now, perhaps an NPC addition laters, after you kill, say, 5000 undeads, he would appear/speak to you abt something and open a whole new window to improve your character.

..................................................................................................

@ Q-1: Maybe my math sense is getting too old. I didn't get what that zero or commas doing in that formula, is it this you meant? :
Damage per Attack = Your Max Ap - (Mob Ar - Your Arp) + Your Arp again ?_?

Also this one got overlooked, Arp is calculated in ALL "physical damages", the one from abilities too, right.. or just normal attacks?

So, to each his own ArP is calculated, true? Or if a zerk with 30 ArP is already penetrating boss armor for example, the bard's 15 ArP is ignored and he also is doing 30 ArP based damage?

@ Q-5: I dunno but scrolls feel like take 100 tries all bosses to drop. Just my luck then.

..................................................................................................

I'm totally fine with the rest.. I'm a big boy, can handle it.
I'm sure you've made Vestra very happy abt staying same in many aspects, and no God system lol. Thanks for replies, and considerations. I'd definitely miss that Vestra goddess, and/or Hacune..
 
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About, gambling.. an invest-to-win system is also applicable, in addition to betting for unique/junk items.

E.g., a group of five, could play a gamble game where they invest 500 gold each to guess on a wild card (there obviously has to be more than 6 cards to bet on). Winner takes all, and the more gold you put in the higher prize, even if you don't win, next time Gambler Npc takes, say, 10% commission, and keeps 90% on the next prize's base worth.

I.e., 5x500 is put in, the first time. If someone wins it, 2500 and system resets. If no one wins, 250 goes off but next next prize is already 2250 worth.
 

Zwiebelchen

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@ 8: I mean, if there is a way to know what talent you will get before going to 30 and reading it, you can avoid unnecessary restats.
Probably not, because accessing the hero skill menu by clicking on the red plus is hardcoded to WC3 and can not be modified. But I'm looking forward to seeing class guides on talents in the future.

@ 9: How about some nice items, half of which are rare drops, and/or sepcific to quest completion as reward, rather than just xp/gold; or in addition to it.
1.2 will have quests with item rewards.

@ 12: I think merc's need overal toughening, if they are meant as replacers for players lacking in team. Other than tank and, slightly the healer shaman, the two others die a bit too fast.
Mercs have an amazing survivability with their pool of armor and HP. They also deal a good amount of damage. Mercs were never meant to truly replace player characters. That would be stupid. But they are a nice addition for incomplete groups.

@ 14: A critical fire arrow even can out-aggro claw strike, and hunters have much CC for this to go ignored, and claw strike cools down faster so fire arrow will get back aggro when people spamming spells fast o a difficult boss. And as it is, hunter's only way to not die is with help of Servant. I still insist it is needed.
Simply give your servant some time to build up aggro and you'll be fine. That's why the threatmeter is there. Pets were never meant to be viable boss tanks btw.

@ 15: I meant "Harpy Eagles" or "Golden Eagles". Both apex predators, pretty majestic looking too. With what I suggest, (14 + 15) PL aura won't go off, just gives more option to hunter. Like when solo farming, one can choose merc for tank +eagle for aura, or wolfie for tank (with better aggro stealing capabilities) to prevent gold loss. In a team in d3, sometimes wolf just dies, and doesn't do much at all. Also with addition of Eagle you will have many possibilites (like passives on Eagles). I just "suggested" Eagle Eye for seeing possible invisible stuff, there could be a lot of other things.
Possibly for new abilities in the future. But I usually decide for abilities based on "what could improve the playing style and enhance the strategic role of the class?" instead of "what would look cool?".

@ 22: Fair enough, but the four other classes (other than mage) get "sufficiently" distinguishable at class change. I still think necro needs a tiny bit more uniqueness.
I don't see why Necromancers should be any less unique than the other classes. Skeletons and life leech are pretty neat stuff in my oppinion.

I can't believe myself, but I miss something like "Limit Break" from Twilight's Eve. I so epically crave something extreme to redefine limits and break monotonousness of how you can get stronger, and also add true uniqueness to your main and favorite char.
I don't like the idea of having "ultimates" or "limit" attacks or whatever they may be called. Simply because it flashes the stiff middle-finger to balancing and shoves it down its ass. One of the reasons Twilights Eve sucked in my point of view was BECAUSE of totally imbalanced ultimate spells.

After all the time you put into gear/skill/gold hunt and so many d3 runs.. mc and gold become pointless sort of.
That's because people totally overdo it to the point of repeating the content more than it was supposed to be. Can't help it if they like the game so much, but I must balance content also in view of future content. And if 50 is the new max level soon, it doesn't make sense to add so much level 35 content that in the future nobody will ever care to see because its outdated. Endgame content is not the thing to be worried about when the endgame is not even reached yet.

@ Q-1: Maybe my math sense is getting too old. I didn't get what that zero or commas doing in that formula, is it this you meant? :
Damage per Attack = Your Max Ap - (Mob Ar - Your Arp) + Your Arp again ?_?
It's a maximum function. It basicly picks the higher one of the two values in the brackets.

Also this one got overlooked, Arp is calculated in ALL "physical damages", the one from abilities too, right.. or just normal attacks?
All physical damage.

So, to each his own ArP is calculated, true?
Correct.
 
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Will be neat if you could pick your quest reward somehow as well ^^ ...

Gambling sounds fun xD i'm all about gambling (watch me get mad in games now haha)

weekly quest 0_0, that was smart ^^ I love that idea (make more than 1 though, most at end game of course though)

Still think it will be nice to get different modes for dungeons... i don't think anyone understands how much i miss killing bandits when they were a threat xD
 
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Still think it will be nice to get different modes for dungeons... i don't think anyone understands how much i miss killing bandits when they were a threat xD
There has already been talks of adding heroics to old dungeons in 1.3 which will allow players to run like d1-d3 as level 50 dungeons


EDIT: I think on the higher end items for gambling you could even throw in MC as a gambling price cost to throw in some mc sinks especially the pools that render a chance to get a legendary I'm all for gambling though sounds fun and I like the concept of 'weekly' quests it will give some stuff to do at end game that is aside from dungeons. Someone I played with a long time ago suggested for a repeatable quest that would be like a full dungeon clear of D4 all bosses. A quest that requires you to kill all the bosses which would take a substantial amount of time I'm sure and very hard to do plus it encourages players to keep running all bosses rather than skipping bosses to run what they desire or seem fit to run thus allowing them to 'farm' and reset.
 
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All physical damage.
yeSSS. I knEw it :). Nothing short of epic man. I'm restating hunter back to 200 hp :).

About eagles, I didn't mean it as a new ability suggestion, or I wudn't base it upon how kool it feels to have one :). I'm just saying, renaming PL -> Apex Predator (Aura) and replacing the purchasable skill with an Eagle summon, makes it fun, while serving in opening new possibilities + a bit more versatile game play for hunter, departments.

This has been a fun thread. Thanks Z, V, and folks for participating.

Edit:
Is it possible to make income "character's" level-dependent, or at least add that modifier beside mob's level/type. It would encourage high levellers to help farm toddlers at Fjords area, for instance.

Any, any, any solution, to give people an alternative to "waiting till outside bosses are there again", no matter how hard/costy would be a very smart addition to game; as currently there is no other way. I mean if a player is willing to sacrifice something else to get their skill, they should have that option. Deity + gold/sacrificial item was just one idea. There could be (hidden or not) "scroll sellers" for hefty prices, with quest line requirements perhaps, just to be able to go see them. I mean anything would be fine, cuz, I know since I been there done that, sometimes scrolls, just, don't, drop (3 hours farming with my monk, no confidence (all other scrolls, but not that).

This prolly wraps it up. Thanks for bearing with me.
 
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Zwiebelchen

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Is it possible to make income "character's" level-dependent, or at least add that modifier beside mob's level/type. It would encourage high levellers to help farm toddlers at Fjords area, for instance.
Why should I reward people for farming mobs that are FAR below their strength? Schoolyard-bullying? o_O
 
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I always agree with you Vestra.

Why thank you I appreciate your trust in my valid opinions. Yeah TEve was fucking terrible, truth be told there are a bunch of shit rpgs amongst the wc3 world, the two best being gaias and tkok. I'm a gaias supporter as I love the connection it makes to the WC3 engine without losing all connection to what was already a good game, whereas tkok is a bit too complex for a wc3 rpg imo but hey, it's still easily the next best when you have shit like TEve, GoH and TBR.

However, the GoH maker is an extremely nice and involved guy.
 
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Why should I reward people for farming mobs that are FAR below their strength? Schoolyard-bullying? o_O

lol no. I was unclear. To encourage, people with high level characters, help new char starters, farm and do quests. It's already happening, frequently enough I should say. But a valid reason would make more of new starters (I use word toddlers for them) into actual players/fans later. I see quite a few starters/people returning from old versions back to Gaias world in the very few Eueope rooms we explore around.

About Teve, I never said it was a good RPG. It was what killed my time fairly well back then and if memory serves, other than Runemaster, Priest, and Mage, I don't remember any other of the many classes worth a spit; yes it was imbalanced and the two makers quit too early and left it to some other guy who apparently couldn't even be paid to care. Reason the makers quit was too many hacks I believe, it Could be very discouraging, I hope Zwieb is a "security-first" kinda guy.
Like I said, I can't believe myself, but I still liked the "novelty" the Limit Break system suddenly added to game after long gameplay hours of xp/gear-farming, as the only means to get stronger, that is all. Sorry abt off-tpic-ness -,-
 

Zwiebelchen

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Why thank you I appreciate your trust in my valid opinions. Yeah TEve was fucking terrible, truth be told there are a bunch of shit rpgs amongst the wc3 world, the two best being gaias and tkok. I'm a gaias supporter as I love the connection it makes to the WC3 engine without losing all connection to what was already a good game, whereas tkok is a bit too complex for a wc3 rpg imo but hey, it's still easily the next best when you have shit like TEve, GoH and TBR.

However, the GoH maker is an extremely nice and involved guy.
When talking about good RPGs, people tend to forget about two very good and well made RPGs:
Hero RPG (although its single player), which has an AWESOME final fantasy-esque battle system and nice terrains (too bad someone on hive used the name to create his own rpg which doesn't even come close to the quality the very old original "Hero RPG" campaign had) and Dark Invasion II.
The latter probably had the most extensive use of multiboards I've ever seen in wc3 maps. Too bad the actual gameplay and balancing was not so well done.

GoH RPG is actually pretty good. It has a nice flow and overall graphics style. Always liked it...

However, I could never get in touch with TKOK. Content-wise, probably the largest RPG map created for WC3 (which is awesome!), but I felt the makers got lost in ideas that are good on its own, but don't fit together well in terms of user comfort or ease-of-controls.

@Kyuzo:
There's going to be endgame content, don't worry about it. However, the current state of the game is not the endgame of Gaias, hence I will not put in endgame content now. It does not make sense, as it will destroy the balancing of upcoming 'real' endgame content.

Also, there's no hack security in Gaias other than simple map protection.
Unfortunately, there are no effective ways to keep people from deprotecting the map and putting a cheatpack in. The tragic thing is, hackers don't even need to know about JASS to do this. Simple GUI knowledge is enough.

I see no reason to put in a reward for people helping other people level up. Simply because it makes leveling up for those people less fun as it takes out the challenge.
Also, if I put in reasons for people to help other, it's not helping anymore, as they do it for their own personal profit...
 
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Dark Invasion II was pretty neat, I did indeed forget that but I've never tried Hero Rpg, I should look into that. There are a few good single player ones as the map size can be a hell of a lot bigger.

GoH is fun, but the balancing is awful.
 
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whos playing them koreon ORPG's with -create party and all that non-English things that you've got to figure out? o_0...

*silence*

ok no one? (tough crowd...) well um, for those people that actually want a power level... or solo for themselves.... you could make a party system... not saying you SHOULD... just saying you could....

Dark Invasion 2 was really good :( everytime I bring it up in gaias everyone says its crap or too complicated.... it was much more user friendly than TKOK! (don't get me wrong that game was good...) but imo Gaias has the trophy for top ORPG on Warcraft III

What made GOH good is the fact that it took a lot longer to level to max level...and even after max level you could level to get 'MP' (Master points) which is needed to weild legendary items...

Very Open world... everyone could do there own thing.... sandbox type.

Repeatable quest (but the weekly quest thing I am in love with anyways)

So much skills per character/Diversity... ... I believe Gaias will do that in the next update anyways, don't want people saying you have to play full int to get the best of the character etc...

Oh and the quest felt never ending xD ....

Just main things why I Find GOH a good ORPG... now the list for Gaias is a bit too long... let Kyuzo write that since he loves long post xD ^^
 
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