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Frost Soul

Submitted by deepstrasz
This bundle is marked as substandard. It may contain bugs, not perform optimally or otherwise be in violation of the submission rules.
Description

A rather difficult melee map with only one gold mine for an expansion in the center of the map. Space for building in the main base is not wide. Players can get to others either by flying units or by foot through the middle of the map. Rushes can't be executed on this map. There are four taverns in the center zone. They are not near one another. Gold and wood is scarce, so planning is needed. The gold mine in the middle has more gold but an expansion there becomes an easy target. This is where the "King of the Hill" type of teamwork has its role. Players would have to share resources from time to time. Creep groups are also placed either near to each other (careful not to stir more groups at once) or are hard to access with only melee units. The terrain outside the main base sites is not friendly because of places with low width, so players would have to tread strategically or make use of fewer land units.




Credits


Blizzard Entertainment for making Warcraft III and its editor
The Hive Workshop for keeping the map in its database
BB code: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode
Vexorian's Optimizer: Default Wc3mapoptimizer 5.0


Screenshots

Overview
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Picture X
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History

~2008: map creation started and its name given
2016: continued working on it this week and uploaded on the 24st of January
Update: modified the middle part so that night elves could entangle the mine. Also moved some neutrals to make the dots on the minimap correctly show
08.04.2016: tweaked the position of the Taverns at Ardenian 's suggestion
09.04.2016: increased the gold in the mines and edited the mobs in the middle at Ardenian 's advice
26.02.2019: released open source version (post)

Keywords:
Frost Soul, melee, TFT, the Frozen Throne, 8, player, Warcraft.
Contents

Frost Soul (Map)

Reviews
Moderator
2016-04-10 [IMG][c]Rufus ReviewMap ScoreGameplay:[c]8 / 30[r]Aesthetics:[c]10 / 20[r]Total:[c]18 / 50 Rating Chart 45-50[c]5/5 Highly Recommended[r]35-44[c]4/5 Recommended[r]25-34[c]3/5 Useful[r]15-24[c]2/5 Lacking[r]0-14[c]1/5 Unacceptable...
  1. 2016-04-10
    [​IMG]
    Rufus Review
    Map Score
    Gameplay: 8 / 30
    Aesthetics: 10 / 20
    Total: 18 / 50


    Rating Chart
    45-50 5/5 Highly Recommended
    35-44 4/5 Recommended
    25-34 3/5 Useful
    15-24 2/5 Lacking
    0-14 1/5 Unacceptable

    [​IMG] Gameplay
    It could be argued that the current concept is too hard, thanks to the single gold mine.
    However, I think that there should exist one of every possible type of melee map.

    Basic melee requirements:
    The creep camps are balanced.
    The middle camp is very strong. Even though it is guarding a big price, this could use some nerfing.

    The items the creep camps drop are balanced.
    Middle camp has too big item rewards.

    No player has a positioning advantage.
    All players do not have the same creep camps available to them. The cornor bases has access to two small creep camps, while the middle ones have none. Also, the base sizes are not quite the same.

    The gold expansions gold amount are balanced.
    Kind of. This is the maps concept, so it is acceptable.

    Plenty of large open areas that allows for epic battle clashes.
    This map has very cramped pathways in general, making it hard to do any real fights. Even the scorpion pits had a crystal in the middle of them, leaving no chance of a relaxed battle here either. There are no real battlefields but in the very middle, resulting in mostly frustrating fights where you block off your own units, making the fights really messy.

    The dragon whelp camps has no real reason being at their locations. They can't drop items, they don't give much gold and heroes can't reach them unlessed pulled closer to the land. they are basically just a light damage blocker for aerial units that won't cross their path anyway.

    The base camps are too small. Some of the bots blocked themselves off with their buildings, making them unable to reach the middle. you also placed decorative iceblocks here and there in the bases, which cramped them even more.


    [​IMG] Aesthetics
    The terrain is decent, with a few questionable choices.
    The center area is pretty undecorated in comparision to the rest of the map. You could use more doodads here. It is important that you don't use up much more space though, since the pathways are minimal already.
    The rest of the map is not outstanding in general, but does its job.

    I like the scorpion pits.


    [​IMG] Bugs
    The bots blocks themselves off due to the small base area.


    [​IMG] Summary
    The map has too many issues in its current state, and can not yet be approved.
    You could check in with the melee nation, and ask their opinions aswell.

    Status set to Awaiting Update.


    old

    15:43, 6th Apr 2016
    Ardenian:
    An interesting King of the Hill concept. The limited place around the expansion
    gold mine requires careful deployment of town halls and defense structures.

    Is there a particular reason why you decided to protect this map ?
    You credit the tool, but please also note it is protected.

    The neutral buildings are heavily unbalanced. Remember each player
    should, in the best case, have the same distance to each neutral building.

    12:20, 9th Apr 2016
    Ardenian: There are two points I would like you to think and work on.
    Firstly, the gold of the mines are quite low.
    I estimate you could rebuild your army maybe around three times to full size before it is game over for you, as your gold runs out.
    You could think about increasing it, maybe to 12,5k or 15k.
    Remember that's the only gold mine the players can get,
    since there is only one expansion one, if they don't kill another player.

    Secondly, the creep groups in the middle are too close to each other.
    Some others are called when you attack one.
    No creep group should call another.
    You could also think about whether four red creep groups might be a bit strong,
    even if considering how big the teams are.
     
  2. Alxen345

    Alxen345

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    The map is quietly interesting...like a Hunters map from StarCraft....but this for warcraft ....I have been waiting for such thing!
     
  3. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    Indeed, it has a similar design, although I think this one has more stressing factors.
     
  4. Strajder

    Strajder

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    This is an interesting center-oriented, star-shaped map. In my opinion, this type of maps is more suitable for FFA than teams, which isn't to say that team play on such maps isn't possible.

    The starting spots on the map are symmetrical, but the taverns could use some more balanced distribution. There are no item shops? I feel like a few goblin merchants would be nice. Tavern creep camps are not the same for all taverns - some creep camps contain only air units, which makes things further non-symmetrical.

    There could be a few expansions along the way to the center, maybe near the spots where the blue whelp camps are. While I'm at them, they are also currently inaccessible for ground units and can only be pulled/killed by air units.

    Since the map is protected, I couldn't check the state of the drops, but I assume you used the guide available on Hive.

    Overall, a nice snowy map!
     
  5. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    I had this idea in mind that it would be difficult to keep an expansion in the middle as one player when 8 people are playing the map even in a teams game. Moreover, there is only one mine in the middle which can be accessed by only 4 expansion main buildings. Although easier to defend against land units with towers, room for the expansion owner's land troops would become even scarcer.

    I had to use doodads on the centered rim pieces of land to compensate for the lesser land of corner parts.
    Placing the taverns became a problem in that other creeps might have come to help those drinking at the tavern. I didn't want to let the taverns free because of the lack of creeps in the early game.
    Placing other neutral buildings would've taken more room. Land width is already a difficulty of the map. Creeps may drop very useful items.
    I didn't want the map to be entirely symmetrical when it came to the late game. Usually, when reaching the middle, players would have all sorts of units to face what is there. The strengths of the dragon packs and troll & mammoth ones are pretty much the same if we consider player owned units that are able to attack air units.

    I didn't want any other gold mines. I wanted to make it have a little "King of the Hill" vibe.
    The dragons that fly over water are supposed to become an inconvenience when players decide to do aerial attacks.

    Now, I'm not saying the map hasn't got issues, but I wanted it to feel pretty hard to play.
     
  6. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    Changed the position of the southern Taverns (Ardenian's suggestion) so that the southern middle player would be closer to them.
     
  7. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    Increased the gold in the mines and modified the Neutral Hostile groups in the map's center as Ardenian recommended.
     
  8. Rufus

    Rufus

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    [​IMG]
    Rufus Review
    Map Score
    Gameplay: 8 / 30
    Aesthetics: 10 / 20
    Total: 18 / 50


    Rating Chart
    45-50 5/5 Highly Recommended
    35-44 4/5 Recommended
    25-34 3/5 Useful
    15-24 2/5 Lacking
    0-14 1/5 Unacceptable

    [​IMG] Gameplay
    It could be argued that the current concept is too hard, thanks to the single gold mine.
    However, I think that there should exist one of every possible type of melee map.

    Basic melee requirements:
    The creep camps are balanced.
    The middle camp is very strong. Even though it is guarding a big price, this could use some nerfing.

    The items the creep camps drop are balanced.
    Middle camp has too big item rewards.

    No player has a positioning advantage.
    All players do not have the same creep camps available to them. The cornor bases has access to two small creep camps, while the middle ones have none. Also, the base sizes are not quite the same.

    The gold expansions gold amount are balanced.
    Kind of. This is the maps concept, so it is acceptable.

    Plenty of large open areas that allows for epic battle clashes.
    This map has very cramped pathways in general, making it hard to do any real fights. Even the scorpion pits had a crystal in the middle of them, leaving no chance of a relaxed battle here either. There are no real battlefields but in the very middle, resulting in mostly frustrating fights where you block off your own units, making the fights really messy.

    The dragon whelp camps has no real reason being at their locations. They can't drop items, they don't give much gold and heroes can't reach them unlessed pulled closer to the land. they are basically just a light damage blocker for aerial units that won't cross their path anyway.

    The base camps are too small. Some of the bots blocked themselves off with their buildings, making them unable to reach the middle. you also placed decorative iceblocks here and there in the bases, which cramped them even more.


    [​IMG] Aesthetics
    The terrain is decent, with a few questionable choices.
    The center area is pretty undecorated in comparision to the rest of the map. You could use more doodads here. It is important that you don't use up much more space though, since the pathways are minimal already.
    The rest of the map is not outstanding in general, but does its job.

    I like the scorpion pits.


    [​IMG] Bugs
    The bots blocks themselves off due to the small base area.


    [​IMG] Summary
    The map has too many issues in its current state, and can not yet be approved.
    You could check in with the melee nation, and ask their opinions aswell.

    Status set to Awaiting Update.
     
  9. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    Response to Rufus:

    The middle camp is very strong. Even though it is guarding a big price, this could use some nerfing.
    The point of reaching the middle is to play in a team otherwise going for an enemy base is better suited for FFA or 1v1. Defending the middle as one player is quite impossible unless it's a 1v1.

    Middle camp has too big item rewards.
    It should have. It's not easy eliminating that group with melee units.

    All players do not have the same creep camps available to them. The cornor bases has access to two small creep camps, while the middle ones have none. Also, the base sizes are not quite the same.
    The experience gained and the item rewards are balanced overall. The only difference is that the players facing the bridges will have to wait a little longer to defeat the arachnids properly but reaching the middle usually takes the same time for all players.
    The base sizes were edited. I've placed doodads on the ones that have a wider patch of land to make sure the building space is almost the same for everyone. You realize that I'd have to recreate most if not the whole map to make the patches equal, right?

    This map has very cramped pathways in general, making it hard to do any real fights. Even the scorpion pits had a crystal in the middle of them, leaving no chance of a relaxed battle here either. There are no real battlefields but in the very middle, resulting in mostly frustrating fights where you block off your own units, making the fights really messy.
    The idea of the map is to be frustrating. Players will have to think a strategy, say, aerial units mixed with infantry. Leading 12 Knights through that environment is not ideal.

    The dragon whelp camps has no real reason being at their locations. They can't drop items, they don't give much gold and heroes can't reach them unlessed pulled closer to the land. they are basically just a light damage blocker for aerial units that won't cross their path anyway.
    Apart from being a nuisance for aerial attacks, they also have an aesthetic purpose.

    The base camps are too small. Some of the bots blocked themselves off with their buildings, making them unable to reach the middle. you also placed decorative iceblocks here and there in the bases, which cramped them even more.
    I know about the AI issue. That can't be solved unless the map will have less doodads and/or wider land patches which would result into a recreation of the map. Besides, the map can be played with and by real people.

    The center area is pretty undecorated in comparision to the rest of the map. You could use more doodads here. It is important that you don't use up much more space though, since the pathways are minimal already.
    I wanted the center to be more infantry friendly. If you're referring to the zone where the mine is, it's because not only a main building should fit there but also ground units should be able to pass too.

    Anyways, the map is not supposed to be a ladder type. I'm not a fan of symmetry when it comes to landscapes and strategy. With that, the balance is not actually absent.
     
  10. Mr. Gameplay Knowledge

    Mr. Gameplay Knowledge

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  11. Rufus

    Rufus

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    I'm removing your rating @Boco_Exist.
    Please elaborate what is so bad with this map in order to keep that rating.
     
  12. Mr. Gameplay Knowledge

    Mr. Gameplay Knowledge

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    Sorry for making you problems.
     
  13. Rufus

    Rufus

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    Not a problem for me, but I don't think the author of the map likes it. :/
     
  14. Mr. Gameplay Knowledge

    Mr. Gameplay Knowledge

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    ;)
     
  15. Michael the Boombringer

    Michael the Boombringer

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    He, he he! This is substandard.
     
  16. Mat3uszzz

    Mat3uszzz

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  17. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Open source released.
     

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