Forsaken Race

[Sunreaver]

UNITS:
Summoner:Summon and repair buildings.(Ghost model)
Zombie:Can learn Harvest,unholy rage and championship to upgrade as dreadguard(Zombie model)
Dreadguard:upgrade of zombie can learn unholy rage and lifesteal.(Dalaran Mutant model)
Dark Ranger:Can learn Black Arrow and Unholy Marksmanship(Dark Ranger model)
Gargoyle:Can learn stone form(Wild Gargoyle model)
Valkyr:Have raise death can learn Animate Death and Life Sacrifice(Sellenisko Valkyr model)
Fallen Champion:Can learn Life Drain and Unholy Defense(Dark Champion skin)
Banshee(Same)
Fallen Priest:Have dark call,unholy curse and Unholy Light
Abomination(same)
Forsaken Catapult(require model)
Shades:weak attacker isn't invisible but can learn Nightmare to upgrade them to have parmanent invisible(same model)
Deathstalkers:Can learn Death Strike and Revenge ability.(warden of barrow den)
Death Knight:have summon minion ability can learn Aura of Blight and Path of Frost(Death Knight)

HEROES:
Dark Ranger:same(Sellenisko model)
Valkyr Spiritcaller:Call of the Death,Charging Souls,Arise and Spirit Call.(Sellenisko Dark Valkyr)
Plague Masterlague Bomb,Blight Flask,Decay and Forsaken Plauge(Don't Know yet)
Forsaken Championeath Blast,Unholy Charge,Returning Evil and Doom of Darkness(Arthas evil on foot model)

 

[VeljkoM]

Why would he need zombie elves, most of the Forsaken are human. He can use wretched if he really wants to.

Anyway need more imagination as this is basically just undead with few new units (I am unsure are they balanced though). Also using hero models for units is kinda bad idea as you would need to at least remove glow and add decay animation.

 

[Sunreaver]

Not zombie elves zombies with lumber animation,Dalaran Mutant with sword and Dark Ranger remove her hero glows.

 

[ForgottenNightmare]

Well you also need some more units too but you can add them later.

 

[Sunreaver]

BUILDINGS:
Plague Hall:town hall can upgrade to Undercity Stronghold and Citidel of Plague.(Ujimasa forsaken town hall model)
Halls of the Dead:Train Zombies,Dreadguards,Dark Rangers and Fallen Champions(Crypt model)
Cursed Lumberhut(Ujimasa Forsaken Hall)
Undercity Houseroduce food can be upgrade to Cold Tower and Death Tower(Ziggurat model)
Plagueworks:Trains Abominations,Catapults and Obdisian Destroyers(Slaughterhouse model)
Temple of the Blight:Trains Achelmist,Fallen Priest and Banshee(Temple of Dammed model)
Spire of the Skies:Train Valkyr and Gargoyles(Gargoyle spire model)
Pit of Darkness(Train Shades,Deathbringers and Death Knights)

 

[VeljkoM]

I must ask do people read How to make races. I see often same mistakes in this group.

You have to many units with same role and some units are just copies of regular undead. For example you have zombie/dreadguard, Fallen Champion, Abomination and Death Knight (and deathstalker/deathbringer?) all melee units and limit is 3 at maximum, 1st tier regular melee, 3rd tier melee and optional special unit who is often siege but never can replace regular melee unit as backbone of army (you can't use raiders instead of grunts for example). If shade is also melee unit well I already question its purpose, also permanent invisibility I am not sure but I think doesn't react to upgrades as it lacks icon.

You actually lack heavy Air unit which is surprising but you do have flying caster which is refreshing though I would like to see her having more imaginative spells.

Also I suggest Alchemist to be called apothecary as that fits Forsaken and I still remind you that heroes lack death animation and you'll end up with map cowered with permanent corpses. Heroes you actually have Dark Ranger unit and hero at same time, you have Death Knights as units and Forsaken Champion as hero who is basically death knight on foot. If I knew what heroes spells actually do I feel like I would have to explain Hero making process. In my first opinion you have no passive skills or auras and heroes just can't have enough mana to use that many skills at same time (that's why some spell-casting heroes have mana regeneration like Mana Siphon, Briliance Aura and Dark Ritual).

Your ultimate building makes 3 units when they are supposed to have 1. All in all your race is just unbalanced undead. You share same units, buildings (really undercity house?) and add to many units and also use all same mechanics of undead like summoner worker, ziggurat defense and perhaps blight too (if not then I should point out that ability for workers to summon buildings anywhere on map can be unbalanced). What does make this race forsaken besides few name changes and Valkyries?

 

[Sunreaver]

Shades and deathstalkers are range
Call of the death is actually an aura made from aura of blight
Returning evil is lifesteal aura
I remove death knights from race
Also dreadguard is an upgrade like berserker upgrade
Change Valkyr Spiritcaller ultimate ability to Necromancers Wrath
Achelmist is Apothecary I only always forgot the spelling
Valkyr have ground form ability
No heavy air units for the forsaken I think valkyrs are powerful enough
Forsaken Champion Unholy Charge change to Path of Frost

 

[VeljkoM]

You know there is just 1 unit in all of blizzard races, counting campaign ones like Naga and Draenei, that has Aura and that's Kodo. Now reason why units don't have auras and instead Heroes and Higher Creeps do is because units can be mass produced. A constant increment of stat that can't be countered is by no definition balanced and even more so if unit that provides aura is cheep and actually can be used in damage dealing role. To make Aura unit be balanced is hard. I am sure you have noticed that its Heroes that have Auras and lead units in almost every case.

Yes I know dreadguard is an upgrade to zombie that's why I wrote "zombie/dreadgruard/ implying they are same unit. Just remember that upgraded unit (the berserker variant not destroyer) maintains same cost and isn't too drastic. Mostly because you could cheat and save gold by spamming unit and then upgrade and thus save on gold.

Valkyrie is starting to sound like god of all units the way you describe her. Caster, flyer, ground and I bet her stats are high enough to preform any role it wants. So what would I like you to do is explain to me what is the role of that unit , detailed info on abilities, info on her stats (HP, Mana, Attack type and number, armor type and number etc.) and how do you think it can be countered.

I would like also to hear from you what is the point of Shade unit and Deathstalker unit and why those units will not overlap with Dark Rangers role. Well also it wouldn't hurt for you to tell me in your words why this race is not overpowered copy of undead race with new units and instead is its own unique race that represents Forsaken and adds new features. The least you could have done is make them merge of Human and Undead. I am just asking you to share your point of view because the way you presented your race doesn't give me a good impression.

Also saying name of ability does not describe anything about ability.

 

[Sunreaver]

Valkyrs have old abilities except Sacrifice.
It is an ability the valkyr use that kills himself and ressurects 5 units.In the air valkyrs deal less damage and have less hit points than ground form.In ground form valkyr on ground attack turns melee on air attack turns range also when u train them they are on air u need to use unflight form to let them become ground unit.
Plauge Master/Master Apothecary abilitieslauge Bomb(Acid Bomb),Blight Flask(Healing Spray),Decay(Death Grip) and Forsaken Plauge(Death and Decay).
Valkyr Spiritcaller abilities Call of the Death(Aura of Blight),Charging Souls(Cluster Rockets),Arise(Carrion Bettles:they summon ghosts) and Necromancy(Orb of Darkness:every kill made by Valkyr Spiritcaller will turn to Tormented Spirit.
Forsaken Champion abilities Death Blast(Death Coil),Impaling Frost(Impale),Returning Evil(Vampiric Aura) and Doom of Darkness(Finger of Death)

 

[ForgottenNightmare]

Well honestly Feathermoon. Here is an example of what VeljkoM is trying to ask.

(I'm using my own custom race discussion to provide example)

Spellbreaker- Like that of the human race model spellbreaker this unit has the Control Magic ability, but it also has Spell Immunity, Arcane Force (An Aura that doesn't show even when active), and Arcane Glaive.
Control Magic- Like the Human Model takes control of an enemies summoned unit, like a Water Elemental for example.
Spell Immunity- grants the unit immunity for all unfriendly spells.
Arcane Force- Like Brilliance Aura grants the unit extra mana (only works on self).
Arcane Glaive- Similar to that of the Night Elves Moon Glaive Upgrade, the only exception is that this upgrade makes the blades of the Spellbreakers glaive turn bright blue and gives him a few extra points of damage he could deal.

Only I left out a couple details though, so sorry for leaving out some details VeljkoM.

But back to main subject. With the exception of HP, Mana, Attack type and number, armor type and number, I gave him pretty much everything he needed to know, like the fact that my golem Spellbreaker is a mix of that of these three units, Human Race: Melee: Spellbreaker, Campaign: Blood Elf Lieutenant, Night Elf Race: Melee: Huntress. There were aspects from all three of them that went into my Spellbreaker that were made into an almost perfect balance. The Control Magic came from the Human Spellbreaker, the Spell Immuntiy came from the Blood Elf Lieutenant, and the Arcane Glaive if you ignore the modifications I put in is pretty much the exact same thing as the Huntress's Moon Glaive ability/upgrade. Also on the Blood Elf Lieutenant side if you take a look at the description of Blood Elf Lieutenant and then at my Spellbreaker you will find and "odd coincidence".

 

[VeljkoM]

Well that certainly is example of unit presentation. Though that Spellbreaker sounds like it will be hard to balance. Well ok Arcane Force is uneccery you can edit yourself mana regeneration (also self aura is just regular passive). Think your unit would best use pierce attack (casters are weak against pierce) but unsure for armor but i guess medium or light (don't get him heavy as that is weak against magic and unit is immune to magic that's why Spellbreakers in later patches were updated to use medium armor). But try to make stats slightly lower or at least unit more food costly or maybe ground only attack then Golem Ranger so Ranger would still be useable. I really like the idea of this unit.

But back to the topic of Forsaken. Well ok I didn't get answers I was hoping for. I don't know what to say about Valkyrie sacrifice. I mean You could basically sent entire army keep them in the back and when your army is dead just instant resurrect them for the price of 1 unit per 5 corpses. I kinda think that could be a problematic to stop.

Heroes use editor abilities so I can't say its creative that much and I can't judge Valkyre because I have no idea what type of hero is she. I would at least suggest that Grand Apothecary/Plague master instead of death and decay get something to help him regain mana faster or some passive. Death Grip fits Agility or strength heroes or agility heroes as they want their target near them, Intelligent heroes are fragile and well aren't on front lines. By the way Aura of Blight isn't that just health regeneration? I mean Unholy Aura does that and movement speed increase.

 

[Sunreaver]

Valkyr Spiritcallers are intelligence hero
Valkyrs will only ressurect 3 units using sacrifice
Decay name change to Life Grip it gives mana and some life to the hero.

 

[ForgottenNightmare]

Well VeljkoM I'll find a way to keep him balanced out, besides all three unit that I mixed had a pierce-type attack.

And Feathermoon I like the way your trying buddy, but please look at my previous post and look at what I did to learn to use the information in your head or in plain sight to help you in future explanations of any units.

 

[Nealdros]

May I suggest something i'm about to use in my own map? You could have the Graveyard have a mana pool counting dead bodies like this: instead of producing 5 dead ghoul it can "store" corpses, you can trigger it so that it can store bodies from the meatwagons turning them into mana for itself. Could then use the mana for abilities such as: crating the 5 corpses (also could be autocast) or training permanent skeletons using something like 2 mana, instead of 2 skeletons form a corpse with necromancer that are limited time. Also could make giant skeletons, archer skeletons and maybe a big special skeleton unit at like 50 mana (means 50 corpses so no, it's not too OP) just make sure it does not have mana regen and make statues unable to refill it's mana (or it all goes bad). Should work in my opinion

 

[StormWarriors2]

^Actually you could do it so that it does have mana regen and acts as both a defensive role and as an upgrading role.

But you will be unable to have full mana until you upgrade the graveyard with that ability. I have seen that in Azeroth Wars where the castles/final tier of structure allows you to summon units. So that you can easily defend your base. Its actually quite useful. But they have a very short timed life like 120 seconds, which is enough time to repel an attack. But this could be easily spammed, and I have seen it spammed, but it is extremely easy to defeat.