FBF Hero Idea Contest

[Shadow Fury]

Hmm... a bit strange but unique idea. Interesting...

 

[13lackAce]

Hmm... a bit strange but unique idea. Interesting...

thats the point, that its a really unique hero and thx to the skills who all scale with a different attribute he should have alot of replayability

 

[Daffa]

Klavier - Legendary Captain

General Information

Abilities

Explanation

Klavier was an ordinary human who lives at Mt. Teressa, he learn the art of fire magic and swordsman from his father, inheriting his father. He was made to protect the mountain from anyone who wants to destroy the citizen inside the mountain, being the successor of his father. One day, the mountain was destroyed by the dead, only for Klavier to survive thanks to the help of the high elf forces. Klavier then invited by the high elf forces' leader to become one of their members. since then, Klavier fought with the elves to destroy the dead, he swore that the dead will pay for what they have done to his homeland.

Affiliation: Human Role: Slayer Race: Human Gender: Male

Strength = 24 + 2.20 (Primary) Agility = 21 + 1.90 Intelligence = 20+1.15 Movement Speed: 245 (Slow - Average) Attack Range: 120 Attack Cooldown: 1.95 s

Ability Name: Burn : Dragon Flame Ability Type: Active + No Target Ability description: "Klavier releases his sword to burn the area, devastatingly damaging everything in radius. For the next few seconds, he will gain additional damage."

Level	Duration (Damage Bonus)	Cooldown	Mana Cost	Range	Area of Effect	Allowed Targets	Effect
1	10 s	40 s	200	N/A	400	Enemy	Deal 200 Damage to the radius, +10 Damage
2	15 s	45 s	200	N/A	400	Enemy	Deal 300 Damage to the radius, +10 Damage
3	20 s	45 s	225	N/A	400	Enemy	Deal 400 Damage to the radius, +15 Damage
4	25 s	50 s	225	N/A	400	Enemy	Deal 500 Damage to the radius, +15 Damage
5	30 s	53 s	250	N/A	400	Enemy	Deal 650 Damage to the radius, +20 Damage

Ability Name: Burning Step Ability Type: Active + Point Target Ability Description : "Klavier steps into target point instantly, once he reach the target spot, a line of fire will be left behind him"

Level	Duration (Fire Trace)	Cooldown	Mana Cost	Range	Area of Effect	Allowed Targets	Effect
1	8 s	20 s	105	900	N/A	N/A	moves instantly to target location, leaving a line of fire, the trace deals 10 damage/second to all enemies in the flames
2	10 s	20 s	110	925	N/A	N/A	moves instantly to target location, leaving a line of fire, the traces deals 11 damage/second to all enemies in the flames
3	12 s	22 s	120	950	N/A	N/A	moves instantly to target location, leaving a line of fire, the traces deals 12 damage/second to all enemies in the flames
4	14 s	24 s	135	1000	N/A	N/A	moves instantly to target location, leaving a line of fire, the traces deals 14 damage/second to all enemies in the flames
5	18 s	28 s	150	1100	N/A	N/A	moves instantly to target location, leaving a line of fire, the traces deals 20 damage/second to all enemies in the flames

Ability Name: First Sentence : Fire Slash of Death Ability Type: Active + Unit Target Ability Description : "Klavier uses all the fire in his blade for 1 attack, blink to target instantly and deal devastating damage to the target, he loss ability to attack for a specified duration afterward. (except if he's in final showdown)"

Level	Duration	Cooldown	Mana Cost	Range	Area of Effect	Allowed Targets	Effect
1	10 s	100 s	250	800	N/A	Enemy	deals (200+(2*Str)) damage
2	9.5 s	100 s	275	850	N/A	Enemy	deals (225+(4*Str)) damage
3	9 s	100 s	300	900	N/A	Enemy	deals (250+(6*Str)) damage
4	8.5 s	100 s	325	950	N/A	Enemy	deals (275+(8*Str)) damage
5	8 s	100 s	350	1000	N/A	Enemy	deals (300+(10*Str)) damage

Name of Ultimate (Ultimate): Final Showdown : Field of Heaven Fire Ability Type: Instant Ability Description : "Klavier swing his blade, creating a powerful ring of fire that eradicates anything inside it. The fire can also be controlled partially, allowing some of it to be used for direct combat. If First Sentence : Fire Slash of Death is used during duration, the fire will loss some of its effectiveness, But the slash is moderately empowered."

Level	Duration	Cooldown	Mana Cost	Range	Area of Effect	Allowed Targets (Flames)	Effect
1	30 s	300 s	250	N/A	1000	Enemies	25 Damage/Second, First Sentence has 25% damage bonus but reduces the Flame's DPS by 20%. 15% Armor Bonus & 20% Damage Bonus for Klavier.
2	35 s	290 s	300	N/A	1000	Enemies	40 Damage/Second, First Sentence has 30% damage bonus but reduces the Flame's DPS by 15%. 20% Armor Bonus & 30% Damage Bonus for Klavier.
3	45 s	270 s	400	N/A	1000	Enemies	55 Damage/Second, First Sentence has 30% damage bonus but reduces the Flame's DPS by 5%. 25% Armor Bonus & 35% Damage Bonus for Klavier

DESIGNED PLAYSTYLE
Klavier is intended for offensive and heavy assault, given he has enough mana, due to this, he needs as many supplement for mana to keep utilizes his abilities. He's designed to kill hordes and assassinate heroes with his abilities rather than actual killing in the front combat. He's unable to fight well without abilities, so it's necessary for him to avoid clashes (especially large ones) if he's out of mana, supplementing him with mana based items can give him a moderate to big edge in battle. He's however, pretty much slow without his traveling skill (Burning Steps), so he needs to avoid getting to the front or he might risk get killed by enemies with deadly offensive skills since he has no escape option without it.
PROS

• Heavy Damaging Spells in later levels - making them doesn't rely too much connection for maximum damage soaking
• Quick Hero Killer - Most newbie enemy usually pawned before they realize it
• Easy Mob/Spawns Cleaning
• Heavy HP - Good for Survival, he can fend off enemies well
• Skills doesn't really rely on others too much, making Klavier a well versed fighter

CONS

• Lacks of MP - Needs lots of Mana Recovery Items
• Third Skill is risky, if he fails to kill enemy, he might die if he can't escape
• No Healing Skills - Risks him killed by heavy assaults if not backed up and he tanks most of the damages
• Skills needs to be connected to each other properly to be very effective in their use, skills aren't pretty effective themselves, this mostly applies in early stages, in later stages spells should be able to effectively used without connection
• Klavier skills mostly have an average to long cooldowns, making them needs to be used properly

---

Credits
Royal Captain by Tranquil
BTNFireSword by Hemske
BTNFireBoot by PeeKay
BTNFireSword by Mc !
BTNSpell Fire SealOfFire by Blizzard Entertainment

 

[Chaosy]

nope its no mistake, u saw it right, he doesnt get any agi even though its his main attribute. thats just so he wont be too op, since he can be played as tank, as a damage dealer(thats why agi his mainattribute) or as a mage or even a hybrid build. and as Chaosy already wrote in the first post, "Game Balance is a fickle thing, so you won't loose many points if you're unsure about some numbers for the abilities and give estimates. Every number changes at least once during Beta testing anyway.", i would rather balance him in beta test than making him already too op.


but good seeing some1 did read it

Just pointing out, that is just my opinion. I think its stupid to remove points because they use 5 more start agility than the average hero. As I see it that should only be the issue if the hero seem OP. Again just my opinion maybe the judges think otherwise.

we talked about the topic a while ago in the team chat and one of us thought that we shouldnt modify the hero at all. The winning hero should be balanced enough as it is and there would be no point in having a contest if we have to "re-disign" the hero anyway. I dont remember who it was tho

@daffa you got a random image link in your ability tab

 

[13lackAce]

Just pointing out, that is just my opinion. I think its stupid to remove points because they use 5 more start agility than the average hero. As I see it that should only be the issue if the hero seem OP. Again just my opinion maybe the judges think otherwise.

u know he has a 6x agi skill? if i give him a agi gain from 1.0 each lvl, means even if u play full tank he deals alot of dmg with this one skill, i tried to counter that abit

 

[Chaosy]

well I am not the balance judge so it doesnt matter to me. However I would look very carefully on a hero with such high scaling before giving it a high rating.

 

[13lackAce]

changed the agi scaling from 6 x agi to 4x agi and hope that will be enough nerf to the skill(6x agi was a bit muchxD)

 

[Meticulous]

we talked about the topic a while ago in the team chat and one of us thought that we shouldnt modify the hero at all. The winning hero should be balanced enough as it is and there would be no point in having a contest if we have to "re-disign" the hero anyway. I dont remember who it was tho

That'd be a nice world to live in, but something like that is pure fantasy in the real world

I don't think there's a single designer who can truly predict how a character will fit in a game and make them perfectly balanced on release. Not to mention as metagames evolve older characters often have to be changed because they suddenly become too weak/strong with the addition of new characters they're strong/weak against (or strong when paired with), or items they synergize really well with, etc.

 

[AlienAtSystem]

I don't think there's a single designer who can truly predict how a character will fit in a game and make them perfectly balanced on release.

Well, that's not what I meant when I said that, or at least when i said what Chaosy misremembered like that.
The original question in question had indeed been about whether to judge heroes as-is or judge them based on how far we'd need to change them to fit.
I argued against it, on the basis that we want to judge your ability to design a hero, not our ability in thinking up how to improve it. When we start thinking like "That hero would be awesome if it just had this ability instead of that.", then we're doing the work you were supposed to be doing. Thus I drew the line at changing numbers, because a) That is, as mentioned, going to happen anyway and b) I'm not that much a geek that I can fully calculate the repercussions of the choice of numbers in my head.

I hope that removes all remaining clarity.

 

[Chaosy]

well I kinda said that too. But he got a point tho

anyway I added daffas entry to the list

 

[Chen]

My Entry is Finished!

 

[Chaosy]

everything seems to be in order there. Welcome to the entry list.

 

[AlienAtSystem]

We have reached the deadline. Here it is:

---

Entries submitted after the post will not be accepted. Anyone editing their entry after this post will be disqualified.

The list of all qualified entries can be found here.

Judgement time starts now. I don't know how long it'll take us to complete our assessments, but there'll be an announcement once the results are finalised.

 

[Meticulous]

Well, that's not what I meant when I said that, or at least when i said what Chaosy misremembered like that.
The original question in question had indeed been about whether to judge heroes as-is or judge them based on how far we'd need to change them to fit.
I argued against it, on the basis that we want to judge your ability to design a hero, not our ability in thinking up how to improve it. When we start thinking like "That hero would be awesome if it just had this ability instead of that.", then we're doing the work you were supposed to be doing. Thus I drew the line at changing numbers, because a) That is, as mentioned, going to happen anyway and b) I'm not that much a geek that I can fully calculate the repercussions of the choice of numbers in my head.

I hope that removes all remaining clarity.

Ah, well that makes a lot more sense. I agree with that. Looking at a kit that seems awesome save for a single odd black sheep is always disheartening. DotA has been a great example of this in the past (less so in recent years). Lina, for example - an intelligence hero with 3 big nukes and then a random attack speed steroid to go along with her terribly slow attack animation (meaning enemies will often be out of range before you can throw your second attack anyway). Same deal for Windrunner, 1 nuke 2 support skills and a big attack speed boost; except her steroid skill is her ultimate and most people still don't level it up until they have to.

Anyway, good luck on the judging. Hardest part of any contest.

 

[T. D. W.]

Well, that's not what I meant when I said that, or at least when i said what Chaosy misremembered like that.
The original question in question had indeed been about whether to judge heroes as-is or judge them based on how far we'd need to change them to fit.
I argued against it, on the basis that we want to judge your ability to design a hero, not our ability in thinking up how to improve it. When we start thinking like "That hero would be awesome if it just had this ability instead of that.", then we're doing the work you were supposed to be doing. Thus I drew the line at changing numbers, because a) That is, as mentioned, going to happen anyway and b) I'm not that much a geek that I can fully calculate the repercussions of the choice of numbers in my head.

I hope that removes all remaining clarity.

I'll add a c) people posting here may not exactly know what are the average numbers in the game or either played the game.. So yeah

 

[13lackAce]

We have reached the deadline. Here it is:

---

Entries submitted after the post will not be accepted. Anyone editing their entry after this post will be disqualified.

The list of all qualified entries can be found here.

Judgement time starts now. I don't know how long it'll take us to complete our assessments, but there'll be an announcement once the results are finalised.

will only the choosen hero be announced or will the other heroes will get a review why they didnt make it/their points?

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

I suppose that the point of going through, reviewing the entries, qualifies all of us for a set of reviews from the judges. They'll have to explain their scoring, anyways

Now, when the contest is over, I'd like to point out a thing or two.

1. Cooldowns should never, never, raise with levels. They should always stick to the same value, or drop lower with each level. Also, cooldown of 90/80/60 should, instead, be 90/75/60 - balance the number growth/loss.
2. Mana Cost can either increase or decrease with levels, but any of these two variations is a much better idea that leaving it plain for all levels. Also, mana cost growth per level should never be more than 50-80% of +INT per level x Total Mana gain per INT point, in mana cost.
3. A total of 4 spells, their combined mana cost, should never be higher than total mana pool.

These are just simple examples of technical data that I saw done wrong in quite a few entries.

 

[Kanadaj]

I suppose that the point of going through, reviewing the entries, qualifies all of us for a set of reviews from the judges. They'll have to explain their scoring, anyways

Now, when the contest is over, I'd like to point out a thing or two.

1. Cooldowns should never, never, raise with levels. They should always stick to the same value, or drop lower with each level. Also, cooldown of 90/80/60 should, instead, be 90/75/60 - balance the number growth/loss.
2. Mana Cost can either increase or decrease with levels, but any of these two variations is a much better idea that leaving it plain for all levels. Also, mana cost growth per level should never be more than 50-80% of +INT per level x Total Mana gain per INT point, in mana cost.
3. A total of 4 spells, their combined mana cost, should never be higher than total mana pool.

These are just simple examples of technical data that I saw done wrong in quite a few entries.

I agree with point 1.

From point 2, you should exclude int based characters, since they buy mana/int items, which boost their mana tremendously, so I think ~150%-ish would be still fine, if not 200%. Also, long CD ultimates can afford even more mana growth as a way to control their power. Mana is there to limit the sustain of the characters, and this should be true for high mana casters as well (if you follow the 50-80% rule, a hero with 200 int from items will practically never run out of mana). This is especially true for caster type characters with no intelligence multipliers on skills, since if you don't force them to get int and mana in order to sustain their spells, they keep buying life to stay alive for as many casts as possible for damage output, since it only scales with the amount of times it has been cast. And that is a bad hero/gameplay design in my opinion.

Number 3 is true from the moment the character gains his ultimate, since the initial cost of it may be way too high for a lvl 1 character. Just to make this point more obvious.

My own number 4: The early mana cost of a spell should reflect the initial cooldown of it. No point in a 1s CD spell with 150 mana cost. Also, spells need a certain ratio of Damage/Mana, with other modifiers calculated in as well (such as 1.1x damage for each additional second as DoT effect, meaning 2x the damage of an identical instantaneous spell as a 10 seconds DoT).

These are my own general guiding points on spells, and can not force them on the judges, but still good to consider.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

You're quite good at noticing how balance works.

About #4 - It's a triangle, where you can only benefit from two sides at any time.
The sides are Mana Cost, Cooldown, and Damage & Effects.
Or from one side. Or from percentage divided on the three categories.

Though this includes a very large discussion based on pre-made abilities that can and are situational, and how to balance them while still having all three sides of a triangle, and it's still balanced, so let's leave it at this (for now)

 

[Druu]

I'd add a #5.

Balance the fun; using abilities is fun, dodgeing abilities is fun. Action packed games usually ends up with good ending. I mean hitting a skillshot always brings joy as well as dodgeing one.

So to this, I'd add having abilities that aren't significantly powerful but usable often. Also, if you have a passive, make an active out of it. Passives are like having 1 less skill to play with. (Think how nobody ever said : "Wow this king leoric has mastered his character!")

If you eventually end up having a passive, pretty sure you can make an active out of it.

 

[Drunken_Jackal]

We should make this a list and compile it. Maybe call it "MOBA 101".

#6: Remember counter play. When designing abilities, be sure to make it both fun for the user of the ability and the one being affected by the ability. Both sides should gain an equal or somewhat equal amount of new, interesting decisions after the ability. Adding an element of risk to an ability is one of the sure fire ways to add counter play.

For example, let's take Storm Bolt. Deals damage and stuns, fairly simple, yet it only works in favor of the caster. However, if we make it from a unit target spell to a point target spell, it becomes a skill shot which can be dodged. Making it a skillshot should land more benefits, adding perhaps a larger damage.

 

[13lackAce]

may i ask how far you guys are? (if u dont wanna give us information about it, its fine too)

 

[Chaosy]

we are still judging. I know that some of the judges are somewhat close to finished but I dont know the exact number of judged entries. However I think the judgement should be complete rather soon.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Sweet, can't wait

On a side note, the fun thing about this is that each judge has it's own category of expertise, so they're focused upon very minor details, leading to better reviews.

 

[AlienAtSystem]

Sweet, can't wait

On a side note, the fun thing about this is that each judge has it's own category of expertise, so they're focused upon very minor details, leading to better reviews.

Hopefully. So far, what judgement I received met my expectations, if it is to your liking, we'll most likely see next week.