Farmer vs. Hunter R! ver. 3.7

[Moderator]

Vengeancekael - [Contact]
Date: 2012/Jun/30 11:45:16

Comment: [Approved]

Resource Moderation - Rules

 

[Emental]

Pure amazement! I'm adding to my TOP10 list..

 

[Almia]

Oooohh i like the removed wandering
for that ill give you 5/5

 

[Mufanza]

Pure amazement! I'm adding to my TOP10 list..

Thanks a lot man - you're da best!

Oooohh i like the removed wandering
for that ill give you 5/5

Thanks! Although I'm not sure what you mean - animal wandering is still implemented. It forces the player to build fences and spawn the animals in them, so they don't wander off and don't get in the way.
(But now you can control in which direction you want the animals to spawn (with building rally-points))

 

[Skipper]

Never seen this before, Very good map, very good idea from very good mapmaker, Rating 5/5 and adding some rep...

BTW: Balance se píše s jedním L

 

[Mufanza]

Never seen this before, Very good map, very good idea from very good mapmaker, Rating 5/5 and adding some rep...

Thanks so much! I can't take much credit for the idea - unless you mean the idea to remake this map
I'll fix the spelling right away, thanks for pointing that out!

 

[Sverkerman]

@rednek
Mind removing

and vote 5!

before a moderator sees it?

 

[Mufanza]

@rednek
Mind removing before a moderator sees it?

I'm sure moderators have a sense of humor too

 

[Ariagil]

I've really enjoyed that map and played it many times. Full of great features, terrain is great and I love the name Iron Penis.
Even though I don't know the other versions I suppose this is one of the greatest versions, easily the best.
I think you deserve 5/5

 

[Mufanza]

Thanks dude! <3

 

[Tanasren]

I played two times as farmers :

the hunters have to face golems only in the end right ? so it may become boring for them before

i tried to make multiples bases, putting towers to destroy them before it becomes food, but it was time consuming and gold too so i had not much time to make my golem but i helped others by occupying the hutners.
They had super golem and i made mine at 6 minutes lol so he had 2500 hp and few things like that but i also made a lot of mercenaries building. We almost got them but one of the golem fled (the strongest one).

I wonder if you could make an option to control an "army" or/and some upgrades for it, because i don't wanna make a base since i have to hunt them.

Loading screen said that few upgrades make golem as strong as hunters but it's false, even with 7000 hp and lot of dmg etc one golem can't kill a hunter late game.
Basic golem is also way weaker than one basic hunter, while you wrote the opposite.

Do we need to keep alive the chickens to get gold ? (it looks logical but...)

EDIT : as Hunter :if you make a base as hunter, the mercenaries will all go there and die here. It makes mercenaries useless. When I had no base, i was going to die coz of mercenaries.

 

[Mufanza]

the hunters have to face golems only in the end right ? so it may become boring for them before

In theory. Gameplay for both Farmers and Hunters seems to be boring when you first hear of them. Surprisingly, we always found it fun to play for both sides (the proof for that is this actual remake of the map).

i tried to make multiples bases, putting towers to destroy them before it becomes food, but it was time consuming and gold too so i had not much time to make my golem but i helped others by occupying the hutners.

If by food you mean feed then YES! That's how the pros do it!
Strange it took you so much gold and time - One boulder tower is basically enough to deny most of your livestock and one flame-arrow should cover the buildings :S
Anyway, you were on the right track here! You might try doing it again with less, bigger bases perhaps (or by doing something else differently, since I'm not sure what went wrong in your case. Perhaps it was just a bad luck).

I wonder if you could make an option to control an "army" or/and some upgrades for it, because i don't wanna make a base since i have to hunt them.

Do you mean when playing as a Hunter or when playing as a Farmer?
As Farmer, you can partially control mercenaries with Increase Motivation spell. The option to make other units, well, perhaps We thought of it but decided to leave it like this for now.
If you mean for Hunters, buying and army of grunts can end surprisingly well but only if there aren't too many Golems (== too many nuke spells).

Loading screen said that few upgrades make golem as strong as hunters but it's false, even with 7000 hp and lot of dmg etc one golem can't kill a hunter late game.

Depends on the amount of feed the Hunters got.

Basic golem is also way weaker than one basic hunter, while you wrote the opposite.

You are correct with the basic Hunter > basic Golem. But I can't remember where did we wrote that :S
Wherever it is, it must have been done by a mistake. Where did you read it?

Do we need to keep alive the chickens to get gold ? (it looks logical but...)

Indeed.
In some early beta versions, animals even had little +1 floating texts floating above them every income-tick, but we removed them later on (they seemed like a pointless cpu-consuming loop)
Do you think we should bring this back?

EDIT : as Hunter :if you make a base as hunter, the mercenaries will all go there and die here. It makes mercenaries useless. When I had no base, i was going to die coz of mercenaries.

You are correct once again. These are the two strategies that counter each other (It's like training Marauders against Roaches in StarCraft 2. The Roaches aren't useless because they can be countered - Roaches are useless when they get countered).
If you decided to not make a base as a Hunter and the Farmers get mercenaries, you can still get away with it - but only if you get enough potions.

In any case, thanks for playing and for this AMAZING comment! It's really this kind of feedback we'd like to hear and you brought us just that!

 

[Mufanza]

Farmer vs Hunter i just love that game but too much mh this days so ppl dont really play this map but 5/5 anyway + rep

Hundreds of thanks!

 

[Tanasren]

"Indeed.
In some early beta versions, animals even had little +1 floating texts floating above them every income-tick, but we removed them later on (they seemed like a pointless cpu-consuming loop)
Do you think we should bring this back?"

No, if it adds lag and it will make lone chickens more visibles to hunters, it will help them.
But you should write it clearly, "EACH SHEEP ALIVE GIVE YOU +2 GOLD, DONT KILL THEM WITHOUT A GOOD REASON".

"Strange it took you so much gold and time - One boulder tower is basically enough to deny most of your livestock and one flame-arrow should cover the buildings :S"

I was making bases around the map and i put walls lvl 2 (otherwise i would have no time to kill my own animals), one Boulder tower and sometimes i put a frost arrow too and i kill my farm to 10%. It costs 220 for walls (if you put only 2, if you are in a good place, but since it's timed I had no time to search forever), then 250 for boulder, 200 for arrow, 600/800 for the farms. 1500 gold for a fuckin base. I had to make like 5-7 bases like that...

Well my allies had not to worry thx to me but it was hard for me lol.

And all the games I played, nobody ever killed their own animals, only me lol.

"You are correct with the basic Hunter > basic Golem. But I can't remember where did we wrote that :S
Wherever it is, it must have been done by a mistake. Where did you read it?"

I guess in the loading screen or F9.

Also you said to buy lot of potions as hunters, and i did that, but i didn't know that 100 gold was hard to get in later game, so i "wasted" a lot of gold on potions.
What i mean is that your hints are not very useful for beginners.

Suggestion :

-add a sort of blink spell to get out of your own base with the golem or iwth the peasant without killing your upgraded wall or killing trees and having to make a new one and new towers...
-one game a guy teamkilled one other, then he took his revenge and it sucked. I was Hunter so i couldn't know who I had to kick. Then i kicked one and the other had lost everything so he left. Dunno how you can fix that lol its not a suggestion.
-units, even a farmer who resurects, can spawn in a "bugged place" on the north west near the river. I had to kill the farmer iwth a tower to debug him. Don't add a -suicide command it would be abused


For the moment I stopped playing because I kind of understood how to win against "beginners" (lol even if I played only 4 games) but I'd like to play with guys who know how to play. Where ? When ? (europe time)

 

[Mufanza]

But you should write it clearly, "EACH SHEEP ALIVE GIVE YOU +2 GOLD, DONT KILL THEM WITHOUT A GOOD REASON".

Hmm, you might be right - we tried to make the descriptions as short as possible (this is based on my experience - players tend to ignore long texts).
But since you insist, I've changed it to:

Chicken Farm:
Produces Chickens. Chickens take 10 seconds to create and each chicken generates 1 gold every 7.5 seconds.

Better?

I was making bases around the map and i put walls lvl 2 (otherwise i would have no time to kill my own animals), one Boulder tower and sometimes i put a frost arrow too and i kill my farm to 10%.

Hmm, then you were probably just unlucky they found you
Although there is no need for lvl 2 walls - if you put your towers behind the animals, Hunter have to chop their way through to them if they wish to destroy them, which should buy you enough time to deny most of the livestock. Flame-Arrow Towers have Siege damage-type, which should make them about few times better over Ice Towers for denying buildings
Yep, towers are expensive, but the main thing is Hunters don't get the gold.

-add a sort of blink spell to get out of your own base with the golem or iwth the peasant without killing your upgraded wall or killing trees and having to make a new one and new towers...

The last wall upgrade (Magic Wall) can be lowered, allowing units to pass through.

-units, even a farmer who resurects, can spawn in a "bugged place" on the north west near the river. I had to kill the farmer iwth a tower to debug him. Don't add a -suicide command it would be abused

It has already been pointed to me via PM, I'm about to fix it
Thanks tho!

For the moment I stopped playing because I kind of understood how to win against "beginners" (lol even if I played only 4 games) but I'd like to play with guys who know how to play. Where ? When ? (europe time)

Great, I'm looking forward to play with you!
How about tomorrow (friday the 6th), 18:00 (UTC+2)?
Both me and Parafrazor have time, we play over Garena+
Add me as a friend, I go over the nickname: Mufanza

edit: this is also an invite for everyone else reading this, come, friend me and join us! Even if you're not that good at this map, we're all cool and friendly people

 

[Vengeancekael]

Fixed the description for you. (That weird bug happens once in a while)

 

[Mufanza]

Then we fixed it both at the same time because I noticed it too
In any case - thanks once again!

 

[bladerdog]

You made a really nice map mate. Me and that strange sheep tested it on gamer ranger and now the whole community is playing it. Keep up the good work . Maybe you can add some different kind of farmers and hunter that would add the game more spice but all in all 10/10 points.

One of the few maps that those not get boring after 10 times xD

 

[Mufanza]

Duuuuuuuudes, you rock! So good to hear this! ♥♥♥♥♥♥!
I've never heard of this gamer ranger but this seems like a good time to try it

Different kinds of farmers/hunters. Mmmmm maybe one day, but for now, I don't want to hold the players at start (and I'm also not sure what would they differ in )
Keep the suggestions coming! Anything an experienced player can say has a price of gold to us!

 

[bladerdog]

Gamer ranger is one of the oldest Internet gaming services and its pretty easy to use so still a lot of people use it. Nvm that the bug that sheep just send you can only be stopped with closing the color red.The hunter that the red gets is hostile towards the other hunters.
About the diff kinds of hunter/farmer thing. I just had the wild idea that different kinds of farmer and hunters would make team-play stronger because most people don t want others inside their bases ( they are afraid of being discovered early ). For instance farmers that have more defensive building , farmers that have more offensive buildings and the balanced ( those right now ). For the hunters some classes for instance tracker , spear class , sword class etc.

 

[Sheep]

even if we close the red slot the red hunter and his magic wall will still spawn:/

how many animals can you have at once?

 

[Lenura]

disable farmers ability to kill each other/kill themselves with their towers. ruined many games for me as hunter (winning solo as hunter is still extremly easy tho).

also don't add anything like a -suicide, if farmers spawn inbetween trees get goblins.

 

[Mufanza]

even if we close the red slot the red hunter and his magic wall will still spawn:/

Sorry, I placed these units there to test (and try to fix) a bug that sometimes happens and I forgot to remove them :S
Should be fixed by now!

About the diff kinds of hunter/farmer thing. I just had the wild idea that different kinds of farmer and hunters would make team-play stronger because most people don t want others inside their bases ( they are afraid of being discovered early ). For instance farmers that have more defensive building , farmers that have more offensive buildings and the balanced ( those right now ). For the hunters some classes for instance tracker , spear class , sword class etc.

Heh, we actually didn't want the players to team-play that much at start (that's why only one Farmer can repair one wall). Like you said, as a Farmer, you don't want others in your base because when the Hunters find you like that, it's like killing two birds with one stone for them.
It also might be better if Hunters differ in the skill and item build, so you can adjust your strategy in game and are not limited by the class you picked at start (for example, Flare Gun and Skull Mask with Wards and Reveal would make a good tracker, while Key of the Critic and Gloves of haste with Attribute Bonus and Wolves would make a good offensive class).
On the other hands, there are some abilities I wanted hunters to have but they never really made it.
We may reconsider this yet

disable farmers ability to kill each other/kill themselves with their towers.

We actually can't afford to disable this. Noob players and trolls can destroy your base with careless tree cutting, so you need to be able to snipe them from a distance before they destroy everything.
Like in any team-based game, if someone wants to be a dick, he will find a way. We just need to rely on the -kick command in these cases I guess :S

also don't add anything like a -suicide, if farmers spawn inbetween trees get goblins.

They shouldn't be able to spawn like that anymore. But if they do, let me know!

 

[Mufanza]

how many animals can you have at once?

If there are 3 or less Farmers playing, it's 300.
If there are more, it's 1050/number of Farmers.

When the limit is reached, they start with the upgrading.

Hmmm, now that I look at these numbers again, I think I should change them a little in the next version

 

[Sheep]

how about an upgrading system to get more animals?
like 2000 gold to get it upgraded

 

[Tanasren]

"You made a really nice map mate. Me and that strange sheep tested it on gamer ranger and now the whole community is playing it."

o_0 gameranger was not very interesting when i tried it, only dota and dumb players lol

"Produces Chickens. Chickens take 10 seconds to create and each chicken generates 1 gold every 7.5 seconds. "
better

and in changelog you wrote "june" instead of "july".

For today I don't know if i'll be here at 18h. But I must try to play with you so i'll PM you for more infos

 

[Mufanza]

how about an upgrading system to get more animals?
like 2000 gold to get it upgraded

I would like that, but the main reason for the animal limit is that the game becomes unresponsive and laggy once there are too many units :/
But small limits also force you to decide whenever you want small but fast-to-max income (chickens), big but slow-to-max income (pigs) or in between (sheep).

and in changelog you wrote "june" instead of "july".

What, it's July already? Where did the days go D:
(fixed)

For today I don't know if i'll be here at 18h. But I must try to play with you so i'll PM you for more infos

Aaaaaaw that's too bad :C Be sure to PM tho, I have sheetloads of time these days so it shouldn't be a problem (unless it's tomorrow, I'm away all day)

 

[Sheep]

can you make it so you can stuck chickens in a 2 by 1 square like you can do with sheep and pigs?

 

[Mufanza]

What do you mean?

 

[Sheep]

you can build farms around pig and sheep farms and make them stuck in middle so they can't run around in your base

 

[Mufanza]

I'm still not sure I get what you mean
You can do that with chickens as well (no?)
You can use rally point to choose in which direction you want the animals to spawn. I myself tend to block the animals with weak walls if other buildings are not enough.

 

[Lenura]

ok been playing this with inhouses for a fairly long time now. i EASILY win the game as hunter ALONE or in teams, hunter is seriously overpowered. remove healpotions, or add a 3minute cooldown in buying them. i easily kill any bases no matter how much they upgraded (if they upgrade it way to much i just destroy trees or afk for win since they dont have gold for mercs etc). hunters damage needs to be nerfed, healpots and armor. also buff farmers. one way to balance it out would be to remove all attributes skill and give them something else (getting +70 in every game its just retartedly op , wards + stats only)

 

[neven1]

OK my Review:

Good Things:
+Very Nice terranin i really love that animal thing and the towers and golems ^^

Bad Things:
- Hunter are so OP that one is enough to win against 6 farmers
-Golems are Waaaay Weak even the strongest golem is no match with beginar Hunter!
-Too Little GOld Gain too slow until you reach enough gold to make army or golems and up them 20-25 minute pass!But in most casses you are dead by then!
-Towers are way too weak!
-Walls are weak too!
-Farmers have like 20% to WIn the Game only of hunter is new and he is serius noob that may increes the chance

May Review 1/5 but i know you can do it better than that!

 

[Mufanza]

1/5? aw c'mon man, you have compacted 4 good things into one line while you wrote only one bad thing (Farmers being too weak) into 5 different lines! Plus you haven't even gave us a chance to defend, because you may be wrong about that one! :S

About Hunters being overpowered - actually, the very contrary is true. If the Farmers are good, the Hunters have very little chances of winning (If you notice, there is a "-progame" mode which balances this issue. When "-progame" mode is activated, the Hunters are even more powerful).
Of course, most new players find this hard to believe. But if the farmers deny their buildings and animals (with boulder towers, for example), run away when the Hunters find them (they have faster movement speed) and hide in good spots, the Hunters get almost no feed at all.
The Farmers are supposed to get army at about 25-30 minutes of gameplay, since Hunters with no level and gold can't defend against it for too long.

Well, thank you for writing this anyway (although I think you were a bit unfair). We might nerf the Hunters a bit in the non-progame mode (I suppose +70 to all stats might be too much after all).
But the thing that would make me most glad would be if you played the map some more (to realize what I'm talking about).
If you're too good as a Hunter, try playing as a Farmer instead. Bad teammates can ruin it, but if you have at least one decent player, it shouldn't be too impossible (unless the Hunters are good too. But when me and Parafrazor play as Farmers, we almost always win).

edit: Or, if you have time, we can play together. We'll show you how weak the Hunters can be.

 

[medin]

Hi I play this Map Always and it is playing on GameRanger 10 Rooms jsut for theat game Amazing But its getting Booring Can you make a remake map I mean only trees and make more hills for base and other things to Hunters Now Know where will we go always and Killing uss And yes 40 mintes to kill Hunter is to little because I have to bulid first base towers upgrade then wall and golem upgrade theat is 30 mins or more if I got pwned by hunter And add blink to farmer it would be better because the Hunters have their Troops for cutting tree

 

[Mufanza]

Thanks so much medin! It honors me greatly that you first post in this site was a comment on my map!
What you just wrote made me sit and think for a few minutes. I always thought the map is too big, but I've never played it with a lot of people who knew how to play.
I might increase the 40 minutes to 45 as it was as first, I'll have to think about that too.
Sappers should be a bit weaker in this version (they don't explode when they die) so if you're paying attention, they should no longer be a problem

Anyway, I'm going to try that Game Ranger thing. You are the third person (after sheep and bladerdog) who said this map gets played a lot in there and that makes me really happy

 

[medin]

And will you remake map make bigger and put other tress so Hunters dont know now where we are they just use True sight to check are we in our secret place So you could remove theat spell or 5 min cooldown and please remake tress and all and bigger map because we play theat map 24/h after day after day So please bigger map difrent destinations and tress LOVE YOUR MAP

 

[Sheep]

why does stone wall have 10 armor while all the other walls only have 5?

 

[Mufanza]

And will you remake map make bigger and put other tress so Hunters dont know now where we are they just use True sight to check are we in our secret place So you could remove theat spell or 5 min cooldown and please remake tress and all and bigger map because we play theat map 24/h after day after day So please bigger map difrent destinations and tress LOVE YOUR MAP

Ok.
I will remove Far Sight (or increase the cooldown at least). Now that you described it like this, I see you may have a point - it probably really is imbalanced :S
New and bigger map? Well, the problem with that is that even the new map will get old after some time.
But I might try to implement some randomization elements - i.e, the map will get randomized at start so it would be a little different each time (although it's not possible to change cliffs in game, I would just have to make more ramps and block some of them, but the spots would always be the same, although a bit different each time).
Also this is also a lot of work, since I must make sure no stuck-areas will appear and all roads are accessible.

why does stone wall have 10 armor while all the other walls only have 5?

It had 10 before I nerf'd them all, but I thought the Stone Wall was already weak as it was so I left it with 10.
Do you think I should change it to 5?
Also, I forgot to write this armor change into the changelog,so it's a good think you mentioned it

 

[Sheep]

don't think that matters just though you forgot about it and no problem

 

[medin]

And one more thing make the mercants no EXP worth so theat Hunter cant Feed on them because we make very slow mercants and he can Easy Feed on them

 

[Sgt.Pierce]

Great MAP! Give you 5/5!

 

[Mufanza]

And one more thing make the mercants no EXP worth

If by mercants you mean mercenaries then: Are you sure they did feed on them? Because mercenaries shouldn't give any EXP after death :S
If they did, then it's a bug. Do you remember anything specific about how did it happen?

Great MAP! Give you 5/5!

Awesome! Please do!

 

[medin]

Yeah Im sure the Hunters go to the place where they are getting healed and mana And they just Camp there and geting EXP by killing mercants and leveling up So they are using the Health they Regain in the Fountian

 

[Sheep]

can you add a view distance command? like -cam 2000

 

[Mufanza]

Yeah Im sure the Hunters go to the place where they are getting healed and mana And they just Camp there and geting EXP by killing mercants and leveling up So they are using the Health they Regain in the Fountian

It must have been some kind of a strange bug. Let me know if it happens again!

can you add a view distance command? like -cam 2000

As you wish.

 

[BonerBoo]

I dont know what to say , map is very attracting. But playing it is bullsh*t . Farmers have no chances , hunter can just stay near fountain , and we can't do anything... farmers should have something more strong , like snipers or something.

But still , great work , i really like random unit spawns but make game mpre balanced !

You get +rep, but please do something with it.

 

[Mufanza]

Ok, that's it - that post was an official border of enough people complaining about Hunters being OP. I will NERF them in the next build, damnit!
Even tho I still disagree with these claims - if Farmers play good and don't feed, they should be fine.
But as you wish. After all, if you want a balanced game, there still is the "-progame" mode...

 

[neven1]

I houp 3.0 is more balanced then previus verison!