Exodus: The Violet Gate 3.05.4

[AramChe]

Guys I just wanted to say thx for your unmatched amount of fun u create. This campaign is among of my favorite ones. U are super amazing without exaGGeration.

 

[Mixxer5]

I didn't notice AI behaving differently on Reforged than on 1.31, common.ai was the same as far as I remember. I didn't check on 2.0, but I also doubt so. I'll check it anyway.

Anyway, this map is hard, because you've got three overpowered heroes, all upgrades and lots of high tier units to compensate. Apart from AI attacks, there are three pretty big waves of enemies that are triggered to strike at a given time. Heroes' AoE skills, towers, gryphons and gunships' napalm dump are the key to countering huge masses of enemies, especially when they are stacked on the bridge or in other choke point. Also, dropships can quickly transport your heroes to where they are most needed.

Fair, I totally forgot about napalm- it should do really well against such a blob. Thanks for hint!

 

[Urim03]

Nice Campaign, I had to play on reforged because not playable on 1.29 and I don't 1.30 or above version, I still had very few bug and probably most of them were due to reforged, I'll still list 2 of them :
-On Chapter 3, the long march, I feel like it's quite easy to bug it and it'll decide to stay on the initial spot and never move. Probably bodyblock triggers that. As I could make it work also perfectly, I don't think this is due to reforged.

-On chapter Eleven, sometimes the timer doesn't show when a trebuchet is appearing.


Globally nice story and characters, the biggest downside to me is that there is way too much "empty" discussion, not enough straight to the point. Usually, it is better to have small meaningful dialogues rather than long empty ones. I started to lose track of what was my goal in a few maps.

I would easily give a 9/10 though, great work !

PS : I liked the custom lines of heroes and units, they were great.

 

[LoveWarcraft3]

Come and kiss my dirty alteraci ass. (c) Margoth Leitenhove
That's the greatest campaign I've ever played, the plot and dialogues are stunning.

 

[Nyctaeus]

Come and kiss my dirty alteraci ass. (c) Margoth Leitenhove
That's the greatest campaign I've ever played, the plot and dialogues are stunning.

Soon with full VA in 2.06 :]

 

[Macielos]

And of course even more insults from Old Chap Leitenhove.

 

[LoveWarcraft3]

And of course even more insults from Old Chap Leitenhove.

And political science from Inaylia Aequath

 

[Macielos]

And massacrating religions with facts and logic by Eldin Tharennas.

And daily dose of valid tactics and good old-fashioned discipline from Reynart Alinthor.

 

[LoveWarcraft3]

And massacrating religions with facts and logic by Eldin Tharennas.

And daily dose of valid tactics and good old-fashioned discipline from Reynart Alinthor

Diapers and statesmen have to be changed regularly, for exactly the same reason(c) Inaylia Aequath. I never knew a computer game character could teach more than a whole political science degree

 

[JackBlaze]

If you two don't mind me asking, is there like a discuss thread I can hop on over in order to check on how the development for the sequel's been going?

Due to irl reasons I haven't been keeping up much with the WC3 custom campaigns scene, including gems like this one, in the past year and a half and I'm finally getting back to that again this last week or so (after finally biting the bullet and getting Reforged cuz I lost my previous CD Keys) via playing all of the new stuff along with some oldies. And in the vein, I really wanna know both how his this particular campaign's changed and developed in that time and how far long the sequel is or isn't

 

[Macielos]

If you two don't mind me asking, is there like a discuss thread I can hop on over in order to check on how the development for the sequel's been going?

Due to irl reasons I haven't been keeping up much with the WC3 custom campaigns scene, including gems like this one, in the past year and a half and I'm finally getting back to that again this last week or so (after finally biting the bullet and getting Reforged cuz I lost my previous CD Keys) via playing all of the new stuff along with some oldies. And in the vein, I really wanna know both how his this particular campaign's changed and developed in that time and how far long the sequel is or isn't

Well, there's an Exodus sub-board and in particular this thread where we share all the important news:

Dev News and Updates

Fellow Warcraft 3 players and modders, Welcome to a subforum of our campaign series: Warcraft 3: Exodus. Yes, you got it right, there will be more upcoming campaigns that will follow and expand the story and characters from Exodus: The Violet Gate. Although the sequel is still in a very early...

www.hiveworkshop.com

The sequel is still quite far away, but we're finishing a big patch for TVG, including a new chapter and full AI voiceover.

 

[JackBlaze]

Well, there's an Exodus sub-board and in particular this thread where we share all the important news:

Dev News and Updates

Fellow Warcraft 3 players and modders, Welcome to a subforum of our campaign series: Warcraft 3: Exodus. Yes, you got it right, there will be more upcoming campaigns that will follow and expand the story and characters from Exodus: The Violet Gate. Although the sequel is still in a very early...

www.hiveworkshop.com

The sequel is still quite far away, but we're finishing a big patch for TVG, including a new chapter and full AI voiceover.

Much appreciated, my good man

And new chapter, you say? Well now, seems I might have to hold off on the replay, then. Any chance there's a set release date for those?

 

[Macielos]

Nah, we don't set strict release dates, they are too dependent on how much we're occupied with our daily lives. But I think we need about 2 more weeks.

 

[Macielos]

One of the last bugs to fix before the big release - if anyone's got an idea, I'm all ears.

Replacing LordaeronTree's model - works in editor, but in-game with order or rally point

Hi, another "funny" problem for today. I replaced standard LordaeronTree model variations: imported them on paths: Doodads\Terrain\LordaeronTree\LordaeronTree0.mdx ... Doodads\Terrain\LordaeronTree\LordaeronTree9.mdx I think they worked before, but now something weird is happening: A...

www.hiveworkshop.com

 

[Macielos]

Nah, we don't set strict release dates, they are too dependent on how much we're occupied with our daily lives. But I think we need about 2 more weeks.

It turns out we could have set this release date for two weeks from then. Exodus: The Violet Gate 3.0 is here! Enjoy!

EDIT: uploaded a small fix for Chapter Ten.

 

[skarfyy]

 

[aboluo]

Is the subsequent campaign still under development?

 

[Macielos]

Is the subsequent campaign still under development?

Of course. We closed the Violet Gate story-wise and will now focus on the sequel. Actually, some changes and new content in this patch was inspired by our work on the sequel and will find a continuation there.

 

[aboluo]

Thank you so much

 

[Nyctaeus]

In fact 3.0 integrates some plots that Exodus 2 continues. This patch extends them on early post-TFT period. It's one of the reasons why we put new content into TVG - we want to make Act I more coorresponding with continuation of the story. Exodusverse vastly evolved during development of Exodus 2 and we cannot leave TVG behind.

One of previous patches was similar in this regard and focuses on Enclave matters. This one expands Margoth's story but also setups things for Alteraci in Exodus 2 and also potential further acts.

 

[AlvinXCW]

how long do i need to wait on mission 2? after balnazzar base destroyed, sylvanas send like 2 or 3 waves of attacks then no more. so I destroy the southern forsaken base and nothing happened. i use maphack cheat to check if I miss any units, but there is nothing left to fight.

 

[Macielos]

how long do i need to wait on mission 2? after balnazzar base destroyed, sylvanas send like 2 or 3 waves of attacks then no more. so I destroy the southern forsaken base and nothing happened. i use maphack cheat to check if I miss any units, but there is nothing left to fight.

There are four attack waves sent with quite short intervals (40-60secs or something). And their orders renew periodically, so they shouldn't get stuck anywhere.

Did you have waves with Varimathras and Sylvanas?
Did you have a dialog "okay, let's push east now"?
Did you destroy the red base before defeating Balnazzar? Of course you can complete these objectives in any order, but they are handled a bit differently, so knowing what you did may help me determine what went wrong.



EDIT: BTW, a question for those who already played some RTS maps: what do you think about enemy AI balance e.g. in Chapter Four? Doesn't it rebuild its defending units too quickly? I had several attempts to balance it properly so that it doesn't get stuck after losing a single structure like a standard AI, but on the other hand it doesn't become Arkain-style abomination with instantly replenishing armies. I was rather satisfied with the result, but I have a bias as a map creator, so feedback from other people with their own playstyles is welcome .

 

[ilidandin]

i don't know if anyone else have same problem as me but when i reach the syndicate mission and start to build and some upgrades for the base and like in 2 or 3 min...... it's kick me out of warcraft 3 and return to windows i don't know why

 

[Macielos]

i don't know if anyone else have same problem as me but when i reach the syndicate mission and start to build and some upgrades for the base and like in 2 or 3 min...... it's kick me out of warcraft 3 and return to windows i don't know why

Hmm, weird, it never happened in my playthroughs... 1.31 or Reforged?

 

[AlvinXCW]

There are four attack waves sent with quite short intervals (40-60secs or something). And their orders renew periodically, so they shouldn't get stuck anywhere.

Did you have waves with Varimathras and Sylvanas?
Did you have a dialog "okay, let's push east now"?
Did you destroy the red base before defeating Balnazzar? Of course you can complete these objectives in any order, but they are handled a bit differently, so knowing what you did may help me determine what went wrong.

No, there are only two waves, and no heroes. I did destroy the red base first, so there is no push-east dialog. This might help. I loaded a saved game; maybe that broke something? I restarted the mission and played without saving, and everything went fine.

also a bit of random question, did you nerf the balnazzar attack wave? because garithos easily crush his base by the time I'm done with the red base. i noticed that balnazzar didn't even rebuild after each garithos's attack making this mission extremely easy in my opinion.

 

[ilidandin]

Hmm, weird, it never happened in my playthroughs... 1.31 or Reforged?

i play in last parch in reforger but with grafics on classic

 

[Cristian]

how long do i need to wait on mission 2? after balnazzar base destroyed, sylvanas send like 2 or 3 waves of attacks then no more. so I destroy the southern forsaken base and nothing happened. i use maphack cheat to check if I miss any units, but there is nothing left to fight.

I have the same problem

 

[Macielos]

Okay, I will retest this map tonight and see if I can reproduce it.

 

[ilidandin]

Okay, I will retest this map tonight and see if I can reproduce it.

ty i really want to play the syndicate maps i only see a littel but it was cool as hell

 

[AlvinXCW]

how does the outcast stun work? do they channel it or is it instant? because it is ridiculously long, can't see the effects and my armies get blasted again and again. they just chain stun my maxed out army in chapter 4 forever.

 

[Trailblazer]

The new alteraci mission is such a breath of fresh air. Loved the in depth storytelling and the details

Spoiler

like the parrot learning new abilites if Margoth uses taunt next to it.

I can already see the upcoming campaign will be of highest quality and will be up there with my favourites like Arkain and The chosen ones

 

[Aswel]

I still have some issues with Reforged regarding visuals and wrong talking portraits like Valena being a Lich in it. But, nevertheless, it's still buggy as hell and quite discouraged to use saves. I'm glad you still maintain it on 1.31.

 

[Aswel]

Absolute cinema of a campaign. It's a one hell of a show. For the Alliance and Alterac shall rise again!

 

[The Nightmare Book]

I played only 2 missions by now: the first one was played before the new version, and the second one I played on the newest 3.0 version.
I can say that never saw that someone VOICED hints in CUSTOM CAMPAIGNS! It's immersive for players.
Looking forward to updating this review after finishing the whole story, but I already like it for such small yet cozy feature.

 

[Macielos]

I have the same problem

No, there are only two waves, and no heroes. I did destroy the red base first, so there is no push-east dialog. This might help. I loaded a saved game; maybe that broke something? I restarted the mission and played without saving, and everything went fine.

Okay, I re-tested this fragment, also with loading a save in the middle of Sylvanas attack waves, and everything went fine. I suppose loading a save can break active triggers in some strange edge case, but I don't know when exactly.

also a bit of random question, did you nerf the balnazzar attack wave? because garithos easily crush his base by the time I'm done with the red base. i noticed that balnazzar didn't even rebuild after each garithos's attack making this mission extremely easy in my opinion.

He has a scripted AI now, but its attack waves are very similar as before. Maybe its defence behaviour is now a bit different. But he definitely should rebuild, even after losing the Demon Gate.

how does the outcast stun work? do they channel it or is it instant? because it is ridiculously long, can't see the effects and my armies get blasted again and again. they just chain stun my maxed out army in chapter 4 forever.

It's instant, but its effect lasts only 2s, so it's meant rather to interrupt than to disable units from combat. As for visibility. I can give him a nicer fireball. Anyway, outcasts are unarmored, so Arbalists/Mortar Teams go brrr .

I still have some issues with Reforged regarding visuals and wrong talking portraits like Valena being a Lich in it. But, nevertheless, it's still buggy as hell and quite discouraged to use saves. I'm glad you still maintain it on 1.31.

In which map? All variants of Valena were recreated, so they should have valid portraits.

 

[Aswel]

Map 1. When I confront Valena for the first time, the talking portrait is a Lich when I played it in Reforged 2.01. The spectral bridge doesn't show also when I activate it, however the units can cross it.

 

[ilidandin]

Okay, I re-tested this fragment, also with loading a save in the middle of Sylvanas attack waves, and everything went fine. I suppose loading a save can break active triggers in some strange edge case, but I don't know when exactly.


He has a scripted AI now, but its attack waves are very similar as before. Maybe its defence behaviour is now a bit different. But he definitely should rebuild, even after losing the Demon Gate.

View attachment 518222


It's instant, but its effect lasts only 2s, so it's meant rather to interrupt than to disable units from combat. As for visibility. I can give him a nicer fireball. Anyway, outcasts are unarmored, so Arbalists/Mortar Teams go brrr .


In which map? All variants of Valena were recreated, so they should have valid portraits.

Hi i just want to know if you test the map of the syndicate and in the end is a problem of the map, me or the last parch of warcraft ty for you time

 

[Macielos]

Hi i just want to know if you test the map of the syndicate and in the end is a problem of the map, me or the last parch of warcraft ty for you time

Yeah, I had a crash too. Something breaks this map on damn Reforged. I'll look into it.

 

[ilidandin]

Yeah, I had a crash too. Something breaks this map on damn Reforged. I'll look into it.

Ty really i was thinking the problem was me, then i will wait when you can fix it

 

[Macielos]

Ehhh, I reproduced it and I have bad news. It's a problem with AI, already known to me since it happened in the sequel campaign (which is on Reforged) too. The enemy tries to send an attack wave, but nothing happens and after a few seconds the game crashes. No idea why this happens, since it is in Blizz's native code. I only know it's related to seeking out an attack target on the map. My workaround on that sequel map was to give AI "attack coordinates" order rather "attack player", but it's a last resort since then AI will stop attacking your expansions. I'll think about it.

EDIT: in the meantime, if you want to continue the campaign, "allyourbasearebelongtous" should be working in all missions and should save your heroes.

 

[Macielos]

hello, please could you create optional upgrade for Lordaeron Spearman? little bit more stronger and expensive, with 620 hit points, 230 gold, 30 lumber, 3 food and requires Keep

Nah, they have less HP on purpose. if you want more endurant units, train Footmen. Or Knights in later maps. Spearmen are second-line DPS units (although they are only minimally weaker than vanilla Footmen, and they deal higher damage, much higher against Heavy armor).

 

[SamKing1206]

May I ask if anyone faces an issues with the syndicate campaign? For instance, after Margoth acquires his own base with another witch hero, in less than one minute, the whole Wc3 will crash with no error message.

 

[Macielos]

May I ask if anyone faces an issues with the syndicate campaign? For instance, after Margoth acquires his own base with another witch hero, in less than one minute, the whole Wc3 will crash with no error message.

Yes, unfortunately it happens on Reforged, it's an AI issue. I'm trying to figure out why it happens. In the worst case I'll prepare an alternate AI for Reforged. In the meantime you can skip the chapter with "allyourbasearebelongtous", it will transfer your heroes' progress mid-mission.

 

[SamKing1206]

Yes, unfortunately it happens on Reforged, it's an AI issue. I'm trying to figure out why it happens. In the worst case I'll prepare an alternate AI for Reforged. In the meantime you can skip the chapter with "allyourbasearebelongtous", it will transfer your heroes' progress mid-mission.

I see I see…. Alright! Thank you. Anyway I have tried classic as well and same thing happened. In the meanwhile, I’ll just skip it. But I look forward to enjoy that mission haha.

 

[Macielos]

I see I see…. Alright! Thank you. Anyway I have tried classic as well and same thing happened. In the meanwhile, I’ll just skip it. But I look forward to enjoy that mission haha.

I mean, it happens on Reforged version of the game, no matter which graphics you choose. You'd have to play on 1.31 to avoid the crash. It can be downloaded here:

Patch 1.31.1 Backup Files

Greetings, After Warcraft III: Reforged launched, some people like myself either updated to the latest version by mistake or regretted doing so afterwards. Since Blizzard removed patch installers from Battle.Net, the option to go back to an older version was effectively lost. The purpose of...

www.hiveworkshop.com

but as far as I recall, you need a valid key for older WC3, I don't know if you can make it work if you only have Reforged.

You can track the progress of my struggle here :

[AI] - SuicideOnPlayer crashes the game on Reforged - only on some maps

Hey, here's a problem with AI on Reforged: AI script calls SuicideOnPlayer() It prepares an attack wave Debug shows the attack wave is sent and SuicideOnPlayer() is called - but no units from its base move After a few seconds the game crashes What I determined so far: It occurs on Reforged...

www.hiveworkshop.com

 

[Tuwnew]

Truly an amazing campaign! Exodus (2010 edition) was already one of my favorites at the time, but The Violet Gate took it to another level.

I replayed the entire campaign with the last update, and it was incredible. The Alterac chapter was particularly interesting, and the new subplot was great too. However, it's a shame the new characters were cut off so abruptly in the last mission. I was honestly expecting a full cutscene about Hath’s brother, knowing his potential fate.

Can’t wait to see the next campaign!

By the way, what happened to Alfric? Did he survive?

 

[Nyctaeus]

However, it's a shame the new characters were cut off so abruptly in the last mission. I was honestly expecting a full cutscene about Hath’s brother, knowing his potential fate.

By the way, what happened to Alfric? Did he survive?

Don't worry :]. Every cliffhanger is set for a reason. As I said earlier, 3.0 incorporates plots that further chapers will continue. We decided to backstrack and start some of the plots in TVG to have them more grounded in the next chapters.

As for Alfric, he survives TVG and I can confirm that he will reappear in the story.

 

[Macielos]

I replayed the entire campaign with the last update, and it was incredible. The Alterac chapter was particularly interesting, and the new subplot was great too. However, it's a shame the new characters were cut off so abruptly in the last mission. I was honestly expecting a full cutscene about Hath’s brother, knowing his potential fate.

Spoiler: Final chapter plot

Well, Faranell and Aedale were not there mostly for balance reasons. Having six heroes fighting Kel'thuzad would be totally OP . So we made them withdraw earlier. But rest assured, they have their big roles planned for the sequel.

 

[JackBlaze]

Just finished replaying the campaign again on 1.31 and on Hard (compared to when I did it in Normal the first go around, I think. I'd replayed the whole of Arkain on Hard just before this campaign and figured I might as well do the same for TVG)

Story

There have definitely been improvements in terms of the story, lore and characters since I first went through this about a year and something ago. I think just about all the criticisms I had at the time have been pretty well addressed from what I could see (or well, if nothing much was actually changed, I suppose those 2 years have apparently changed my perspective enough lmao). Eldin had about the reactions I expected for him during the swamp mission and directly after it (and I'd say he was better developed as a character overall, too), Inaylia's behavior during and after it felt better handled, Raynart had more of a reaction to the Ogres in general. There was no Garithos axe though, or at least I didn't find it, so I couldn't check what the dwarves' reaction would be now after the changes.

I also really liked the expansion that's been done on the Alteraci a great deal (and I assume that character talk mechanic is something directly from the sequel? I think I remember one of you two mentioning it). I assume the bulk of the inspiration for them was Eastern European folklore and culture? Very nice addition, even if it was a shame how Aedale (And this Aedale is quite the baddie indeed) and the more politically savvy Hath brother got so abruptly cut off during the Finale (Mind, I do understand why - just with the usual 4 the Kel'Thuzad fight was definitely slanted in our favor even on Hard. No mind if we got Aedale and the Hath bro helping as well). Speaking purely in terms of character, I'd have expected at least Aedale to be down to fight Kel'Thuzad as well - she fought Mokosh, figured she'd have stayed around for the Lich as well. Or for us to at least see the two either evacuating during the starting cinematic or helping in the initial defense of the portal before evacuating afterwards as we transitioned to Inaylia and Margoth. Still, I do understand why they weren't allowed to stick around due to gameplay balance reasons.

So, overall far as this goes, amazing work all around with the changes made!

Now, for the feedback on the actual gameplay

Gameplay

All of the factions themselves have plenty of uniqueness to them compared to before which I really loved, that criticism has definitely been more than put to rest , even despite what I will be saying below about actually playing against the enemy factions. Though, ironically enough, that's now left me thinking the Lordaeronians are the ones left lacking, but I suppose it's better to leave that be at this point since otherwise you'll be stuck with a constant cycle of trying to compensate one or the other faction with more unique stuff lmao.

The actual gameplay itself as a result definitely feels more difficult, though that's probably also because I played this time on Hard compared to Normal and from what I saw when I accidentally played the Circle of Betrayal mission on Normal (More on this in the bugs section) - things are definitely a lot easier there.

That said, I definitely feel like either the Outcast's AoE Stun (say, cutting it back from 8 to at least 4 seconds is probably a good start, if not entirely swapping it either for a different spell, or making it single target) or the Old Wounds mission need to be rebalanced some. That 8s stun was absolutely disgusting both to play against and when I was using it myself. If changing the spell itself is out of the question, then we need to be given an actual frontline unit in that mission, because the Footman just ain't meaty enough (The Spearman even less - with the stun, I can't even take advantage of their special ability like I did the first go around which made them worth using over the Footman) to last long enough for my Mortars to either clear out the backline or for me to advance for long after I did manage to pull it off (which really wasn't easy even with like, 11-12 of them since the AI immediately focuses them when they start firing, whether just on enemy backliners or on buildings, especially on buildings. Which, smart most definitely yes, but still a problem when my frontline falls apart near immediately from the stun chain that emerges even with just 2-3 spell casters).

(Alternatively, it might also be an idea to make workers not require food, that should free up enough food to make those couple more Footmen to help actually hold the line.)

Like, I'd managed to gather about 22k gold by the time I decided to actually start hitting the three Syndicate bases and that ended up not feeling enough, of all things. I was burning through it far too fast for my liking even after I managed to figure out a decent army comp to work with just for one base. That really shouldn't have been the case imo. The only other option I was starting to consider was just making like 12 barracks and sending constant waves of Footman to help me maintain some semblance of a frontline like I did for some Arkain maps when I first played that campaign years ago and was still adjusting to its difficulty (Ironically, when I was replaying the True story on Hard, the RTS maps themselves were a lot easier than I remember em being, even the Dark Breeze mission where I felt heavily filtered. This time around, the part where I actually felt heavily filtered was the Rahandir boss fight). So, all that to say, if that option is what it felt like that I needed to resort to in order to legitimately beat the three Syndicate bases (Especially Ulric's, that one just felt near impregnable. Thank fuck that something there eventually bugged out dozens of save scummings later. More on this in the bugs section) then there's either skill issue on my end involved or part of the map's difficulty needs to be tweaked some and that we can all agree that if I can beat the Arkain maps on Hard without sweating as much for them (A quick example is that I ended up making my workers stop mining to preserve the gold. I can't remember if Arkain maps ever made me consider doing that, outside of maybe when I first played them), then this one shouldn't have given as much trouble.

Still, I did play it on Hard, so if the intention is for the bases to be incredibly difficult (to near impossible for Ulrifc's base) to crack, then fair enough.

Besides that, the rest of the missions were more than doable enough to get through (And the section where I had to defend Atravan for about 10 minutes didn't have that big spike of difficulty I remember encountering when I first played it. It was about as difficult as I was expecting it to be). And I do like that the missions starting with the Day of Reckoning one forced me to actually think about my army compositions about as much as I did during the Arkain maps (and more in some regards, tbh - cuz I don't remember the enemy there targeting my backline and catapults there as hard as they did here) and it also made me see why riflemen are all the recent rage in ladder for Human lmao - those guys were absolute units when it came to the flying enemies that targetted them (All flying units fell down too quick to be of actual use, sadly). That said, that did mean I ended up having to abandon using spellcasters near entirely so that I could field both a frontline and a backline. In case you guys do want to make spellcasters a viable option even on Hard, maybe consider making the AI (Especially the fliers) not target them immediately on sight and focus more on the frontlines or something.

And finally, for the bugs

Bugs

To start with what I felt to be the most glaring ones and then down in rough order of less glaring.

Something eventually ends up causing the AI ally to either or both stop maintaining a decent army (staying in the Green and not even budging) and ceasing to attack the enemy. I'm not fully sure, but I suspect it's most likely due to them taking a bit too many hits to their base since that behaviour usually ended up happening after a few particularly rough hits

First example would be Margoth's base in Day of Reckoning - even before I did that risky attack Alena's base (Letting her hit the forward base I'd made right below her own while I went to finish the job I had to stop after I nearly popped both Halls) where she then nearly wiped Margoth's base, the lad was hovering around 50 food and wasn't really bothering to go into proper yellow (no mind red, I don't think I saw any of my allies going for red Upkeep army until the Alterac mission) and after that devasting hit, lad stay in like...30 food or so and didn't even attack anymore. Then during the Alterac mission - while the army replenishment issue thankfully didn't happen (I'd have been so cooked for those massive ogre waves otherwise, much as I loved them. Finally, a campaign mission where the enemy bases make coordinated joint attacks. I think this was the first time I'd ever seen it happen, instead of ones delayed by a few minutes, which were just infuriating when it came to actually advancing anywhere) the elder Hath brother's base just stopped sending attack waves eventually after a point when it'd had eat dozens of big Ogre attack waves - which made the guy announcing his offensives hilarious when it ended up being just me and Ulric (man was a cur, but he was at least a big help during this mission the whole time) doing actual attacks while the Hath bro just stayed in his base at 81 red upkeep. Truly, a Pit of Snakes indeed.

Finally, there was the Wrath of the Dark Lady mission where after I think...one-two attacks strong enough to crack most of Margoth, Aedale and the younger Hath bro's army - the base both stopped attacking and maintained around...25-35 food at best. They even stopped attempting to help me defend entirely. For the Holding Back The Tide mission, they somewhat redeemed themselves since they kept an about 63 food army while my heroes were out and about clearing the siege camps to make popping the trebuches easier. Still, would've been nice if they actually went into red Upkeep there, but that one really goes for all of the allied bases in the missions.

Also, I didn't see any of the ally bases going past Tier 1 weapon and armor upgrades.

And the bug above I would say is the most glaring one, personally. Next, I'm not sure if this is a bug or something else, but the allied bases' attempts to help when I was being attacked was detrimental more than anything else - it usually led to them being kinda locked into traveling between my forward bases and going back to their own base which meant that they spent a lot less time attacking the enemy than they should have. I'd have honestly preferred it if they'd just ignored any attacks on me outside of the Holding Back The Tide mission where Kangard's forces were helping defend my base, which was the only major point where the assistance was actually appreciated and a boon. Maybe on Normal it can be left as is, but I think on Hard at least the ally AI should be spending more time defending its own base and hitting the enemy one - that'll be helping me the most out of anything else they could be doing, freeing me up to focus fully on hitting the enemy bases and nothing else.

Next, for the Hammer and Anvil mission, the Undead and Forsaken bases still seem to be focusing more on me than on each other. Which was especially frustrating and entertaining when the latter kept attacking me despite them having only 2 bases compared to the Undead's 3-4 bases by the time the big Wyrm was done. Here they are, having their shit completely kicked in by the Scourge, but they keep sending me - whoever Sylvanas put in charge of her forces in Vimturn is either highly incompetent or she really hated Inaylia after sis messed up her op in the swamps and distracted her from Kel'Thuzad's advance. At least the Scourge made sense since with the Giga Wyrm on top of things, they could certainly spare the forces to focus me. Speaking of the Giga Wyrm, it stopped coming out after it popped 2 of the Forsaken bases (which weren't all that well defended from what I could see, I was expecting it to get killed at least once, but nada - the Giga Wyrm did not die once), not sure if that was intentional or not. Quite disappointing, I was looking forward to seeing what shiny thing it dropped, since its structure certainly dropped nothing.

Now, for the bugs I didn't find that much of a problem. For Ulric's base in the Old Wounds mission - In the Old Wounds mission, I got a Margoth attack wave and an Ulric attack wave shortly after I'd finished making Calverton somewhat presentable base-wise and then...nothing for a very long while afterwards. No attack waves at all, which then allowed me to drain the gold mines and creep with Raynart unmolested until I finally decided to start taking the 4 villages for myself - the Syndicate resumed normal attack waves afterwards (And yet, all that gold still didn't feel enough). Not sure if this was intentional or not. Then, after I'd popped Margoth and Alric's bases (burning nearly half of my total gold even after the army comp switch, which was insane) - I'm not sure if it was all the save scumming or what, but the I eventually managed to both break through enough of Ulric's army, pop the castle and kill all of the workers besides 3-4, however, instead of one going to make a new town hall way back (due to the original spot being blocked by the tome that spawned) the workers did...nothing. Just stayed there and only tried making a new town hall after I attacked again with a recovered army - not sure if it was all the save scumming or what, but something definitely got bugged there. Thank fuck though, spared me having to restart the mission and go full Arkain on Ulric with the attack waves.

The Hammer and Anvil mission seemed to make the game pause hard when I was trying to either load a save during it, or when I had to exit the victory screen. I'm talking something like a full 30-60 seconds wait time for any attempt to reload a save, here. No idea what was going on there. The issue also kinda persisted a bit on the Holding Back the Tide mission as well, if a lot less. Speaking of it, at completely random points during the Holding Back the Tide mission, the game just straight up crashed on me with no real rhyme or reason but then it didn't happen again after I reloaded again - thankfully, it seemed to stop after a point and it only happened I think a total of...3-5 times, hence why I'm not rating it as much of a problem.

During the Alterac mission and the Hammer and Anvil mission, when I first got the Winged Hussar and the Napalm Fleet - their attack and armor didn't have the maxed out weapon and armor tier I had by the time I completed their respective unlock missions and neither did the subsequent such fleets I trained for the rest of the missions' duration.

Occasionally, I'd get this funny graphical bug where while building something, part of its build animation thingies got slapped on something else nearby instead of on the building itself

In the Alterac mission, think it happened only once, but while I was clearing out one of the initial creep camps we get before we reach the Alteraci bases - Margoth's animation for one of his spells (Either the Howl or Taunt spell) got bugged and he was stuck in the chant animation for a bit before it got fixed by itself at...one point, can't remember when, but I think before I had to do the ogre defense that the elder Hath brother helped bust me out of.

Not sure if this is a patch 1.31 issue or a campaign issue, but I had to go back to the campaign selection screen to choose Hard difficulty for each mission since all of em were automatically forced into Normal diff. I'd suggest just straight up asking the player what difficulty they wish to play on at the start of each mission like I've seen other campaigns do to avoid this, but it might be already too late at this point to try and make this sort of change without something else bugging out in the process.

During the cinematic when we each the Gatekeeper outpost in Lonely Ridge and during the start cinematic of Hammer and Anvils, the lines that were supposed to be said got switched for something completely different from what was on screen. Threw me off so hard lmao

I think this should be it, feels like I'm forgetting a few other things I noticed, but I've yapped long enough lmao

Alright, with all of the above out of the way, the last few bits

I really loved the added music choices here, the ones before were already good, but these were even better. Also, much appreciated for introducing me to those music artists, always nice to find new sources of good music. Though, any chance you could say which music specifically plays during the Lonely Ridge mission when we just get to the portal entrance and see the Scourge troops dropping? The music identifier app I had for some reason didn't recognise the song.

Now that you guys are fully focusing on the sequel and are even some of the way through, any chance you could say what format it would be in? Would it be a mixture of things like TVG or would it be more like the Rexxar campaign? I really love the latter type of campaigns and the coming Jiluun Exploration Act feels like it'd be exactly that type of campaign (Since I assume besides the Enclave itself, there shouldn't be anything to play against RTS style until we find what's happened to the Jiluun civilization or we return to Azeroth. Assuming Kangard's actually being truthful about the latter, of course), which would be amazing for me personally.

And if it's not too much of an issue to ask, are you two considering going with an initial demo version that you update as you get each mission done, or are you going to be releasing the whole campaign at once when it's done? And I apologize for asking this annoying question, but any at least tentative ETAs for the release either way? Would it be somewhere this year, the next or even later? Replaying this campaign again just made me wish so hard I could play it right now

To finish off, this campaign was just as great a ride now as it was then and I'm eager to see how you two develop the Jiluun series further, lads.

PS: Wasn't sure where to put it, but I loved the added funny lines for clicking the custom units repeatedly. The Enclave Golem was probably my favorite one .

 

[Macielos]

Thanks for elaborated feedback and congrats on completing the campaign on Hard. I imagine it must have been quite the journey.

There was no Garithos axe though, or at least I didn't find it, so I couldn't check what the dwarves' reaction would be now after the changes.

Spoiler: Garithos Axe

It now drops in Chapter Ten, in the main Forsaken base. I moved it because in Chapter Eight we already had plenty of items from Alterac map + the Alteraci Lament.

(and I assume that character talk mechanic is something directly from the sequel? I think I remember one of you two mentioning it).

It's a bit inspired by the sequel, but only a bit. Starting a conversation in sequel will be the same (appoaching + clicking), but conversations themselves will be realized via a custom scripted dialog window you can find here:

Cutscene and Dialog System 1.0.1

LUA Declarative Cutscene & Dialog System by Macielos Let's say you wrote (or you plan to write) SHITLOADS of dialogs for your map or campaign in a form like below: Arthas: I'm glad you could bake it, Uther. Uther: Watch your tone with me, boy... How much work do you need to actually turn it...

www.hiveworkshop.com

I assume the bulk of the inspiration for them was Eastern European folklore and culture?

Yup, we made Alterac basically slavic and Polish .

Spoiler: Slavicness

The witches were mostly inspired by the Witcher series. Mokosh is a slavic goddess, but of course her origins in our campaign are different.

it was a shame how Aedale (And this Aedale is quite the baddie indeed) and the more politically savvy Hath brother got so abruptly cut off during the Finale

Introducing them, even just for the early part of the mission, would require lots of rebalancing, so we decided to just have them evacuated earlier. If they were in game from the start, I would probably split the defence on three parts rather than two, and have two heroes in each. But I'd rather avoid reworking existing stuff too many times.

(Alternatively, it might also be an idea to make workers not require food, that should free up enough food to make those couple more Footmen to help actually hold the line.)

Nah, I don't like this in Arkain. Balancing between army and economy is essential in RTS games.

That said, I definitely feel like either the Outcast's AoE Stun (say, cutting it back from 8 to at least 4 seconds is probably a good start, if not entirely swapping it either for a different spell, or making it single target)

But Outcast's stun does hit a single target and lasts 2 seconds. 8 seconds is an interval. There's one base that has ~3 Outcasts, so maybe that's why you thought it's AoE. I will probably increase its interval.

Also, I didn't see any of the ally bases going past Tier 1 weapon and armor upgrades.

It's on purpose. I set upgrades dependently on difficulty level - allies usually have 1, enemies have 1 on normal and 3 on hard. They don't change mid-game.

I really loved the added music choices here, the ones before were already good, but these were even better. Also, much appreciated for introducing me to those music artists, always nice to find new sources of good music. Though, any chance you could say which music specifically plays during the Lonely Ridge mission when we just get to the portal entrance and see the Scourge troops dropping?

If you mean the final fight of Chapter 7, here they are:

Now that you guys are fully focusing on the sequel and are even some of the way through, any chance you could say what format it would be in? Would it be a mixture of things like TVG or would it be more like the Rexxar campaign? I really love the latter type of campaigns and the coming Jiluun Exploration Act feels like it'd be exactly that type of campaign (Since I assume besides the Enclave itself, there shouldn't be anything to play against RTS style until we find what's happened to the Jiluun civilization or we return to Azeroth. Assuming Kangard's actually being truthful about the latter, of course), which would be amazing for me personally.

It will still be a classic RTS style campaign, but with more extended interactive dialogs and a base camp between missions where we can talk to companions and switch army upgrades. There will be enemies to fight in RTS-style, trust me .

And if it's not too much of an issue to ask, are you two considering going with an initial demo version that you update as you get each mission done, or are you going to be releasing the whole campaign at once when it's done?

We will probably release it in 2 or 3 mission packs. You're right that early feedback is very useful.

And I apologize for asking this annoying question, but any at least tentative ETAs for the release either way? Would it be somewhere this year, the next or even later? Replaying this campaign again just made me wish so hard I could play it right now

Unfortunately you need patience. I'd say we need a few months to release the first act, but it's hard to tell the exact ETA.