Event attacked, action add +dmg ability works?

[Map Designer]

Hello guys

i just had an idea,

say I want some unit to do bonus damage to undead. ofcourse i can use damage detect. but also, i wonder, can I make a trigger of this sort?

Event
Unit is attack

Condintion
attacker is paladin (unit type check)

Actions
If attacked unit is undead && paladin is not in bonus to undead group
then add paladin to Bonus to undead group
give him abilty bonus damage
If attacked is not undead && paladin is in the group
then, remove paladin from the group
remove the ability from him


well maybe not exactly as this, but this sort of thing. does it work? again, ofcourse i can use damage system, but the damage system adds pure damage i think, unliss ofcourse we will detect armor first. so maybe in another case where i want physical and not pure damage added maybe i can use this? (say vengeful paladin hate orc, its physical not pure)

 

[Wietlol]

well maybe not exactly as this, but this sort of thing. does it work? again, ofcourse i can use damage system, but the damage system adds pure damage i think, unliss ofcourse we will detect armor first. so maybe in another case where i want physical and not pure damage added maybe i can use this? (say vengeful paladin hate orc, its physical not pure)

I so much love those words... When I made a system that reverts damage taken to requested damage... people started to hate me.
Even though I could change damage type and attack type of any possible attack!

But yes the concept works... for melee units at least.
Ranged units idk, could work though.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...a-231846/?prev=d=list&r=20&u=looking_for_help Will solve your question map designer.

That fails horribly however it does work for melee. When a unit is attacked is when the attack order fires which is before the actual attack. You can spam stop to abuse those kind of triggers.

No, damage systems do not add pure damage. They detect the amount where you can edit it. Yes damage gets affected by armor, but you can easily fix that by removing armor and making your own. Either way you can have or remove armor since you can deal pure damage with triggers and in that system I linked you can easily do anything you want in terms of damage. It detects both physical and spell/magic as well lets you do a third type of damage which is "Code" damage.

I so much love those words... When I made a system that reverts damage taken to requested damage... people started to hate me.
Even though I could change damage type and attack type of any possible attack!

But yes the concept works... for melee units at least.
Ranged units idk, could work though.

What are you even typing about? Nobody's hating on you. Even though...? Every damage system is expected to do as such. So I don't see your point.

Sadly ranged units break it if the projectile speed is too slow.

 

[Wietlol]

That fails horribly however it does work for melee. When a unit is attacked is when the attack order fires which is before the actual attack. You can spam stop to abuse those kind of triggers.

It does not. map designer wants to give the unit a hidden critical strike ability.
As it is an ability, units cannot have the effect multiple times.
So the new order does not give you free damage.

It also works on ranged units as the attack is made while that unit has the critical strike... it does not matter if the source had no critical strike when the attack landed.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...a-231846/?prev=d=list&r=20&u=looking_for_help Will solve your question map designer.

No, damage systems do not add pure damage. They detect the amount where you can edit it. Yes damage gets affected by armor, but you can easily fix that by removing armor and making your own. Either way you can have or remove armor since you can deal pure damage with triggers and in that system I linked you can easily do anything you want in terms of damage. It detects both physical and spell/magic as well lets you do a third type of damage which is "Code" damage.

That damage detection system adds PURE damage or it reduces damage twice... both are not wanted.

What are you even typing about? Nobody's hating on you. Even though...? Every damage system is expected to do as such. So I don't see your point.

No because all DDS that I have seen detect reduced damage instead of requested damage -_-

 

[Tal'Rarity]

It does not. map designer wants to give the unit a hidden critical strike ability.
As it is an ability, units cannot have the effect multiple times.
So the new order does not give you free damage.

It also works on ranged units as the attack is made while that unit has the critical strike... it does not matter if the source had no critical strike when the attack landed.


That damage detection system adds PURE damage or it reduces damage twice... both are not wanted.


No because all DDS that I have seen detect reduced damage instead of requested damage -_-

He does? Where exactly does he state this? new order? free damage? Yeah its an ability.

Well that's if you exploit critical strike's bug.

Your not making any sense... Pretty sure there's no pure damage being added. They are forced to detect reduced damage due to armor and other features in-game so the requested damage is a bit hard to obtain on hit since no such system exists as of yet. I am actually in the progress of one. A pure/requested attack damage detection system.

Still though they don't detect reduced damage, they actually detect what was done.
Edit: How do you even consider "requested" damage...?

 

[Wietlol]

A unit has 20-30 damage.
He attacks a unit with ... armor (lets say 10% reduction)
Attack type doubles the damage

The dices say he dealt 25 damage.
25*2*0.9 = 45
The event "Unit takes damage" says 45 damage has been taken.

45 damage is taken.
25 damage is requested... at least that is how I consider it. You can call it whatever you want but the attacker wanted to deal 25 but ended up dealing 45.

The system by lfh (which you linked) then activates the custom event simulating variable.
So you can edit the 45.
And then that editted 45 is dealt as true damage to the target.

After that the system properly removes the original 45 damage taken through the regular damage system of WC3.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

A unit has 20-30 damage.
He attacks a unit with ... armor (lets say 10% reduction)
Attack type doubles the damage

The dices say he dealt 25 damage.
25*2*0.9 = 45
The event "Unit takes damage" says 45 damage has been taken.

45 damage is taken.
25 damage is requested... at least that is how I consider it. You can call it whatever you want but the attacker wanted to deal 25 but ended up dealing 45.

The system by lfh (which you linked) then activates the custom event simulating variable.
So you can edit the 45.
And then that editted 45 is dealt as true damage to the target.

After that the system properly removes the original 45 damage taken through the regular damage system of WC3.

That isn't requested, that's proper and how it works. You consider it a bit empty from the looks of it, an idea is to remove attack types and trigger your own if they're that problematic. It'd be cool to see a system like that made, one that does the damage shown on the infocard/unit panel. However the entire point of these systems was to grab all those numbers and be able to edit/use them.

Well at least you can edit it to whatever you want so technically it isn't true damage.

Edit: It might be dealt as true damage but it was originally detected as proper damage so in another way it isn't really true damage even though it is.

 

[Wietlol]

Yea the concept is indeed amazing... if you do not have to make your own attack-type and damage-type tables.

If you do a test and check the damage taken on a unit and return the percentage then you get the exact data of the requested/proper damage.
The problem is that you have to know what attack-types and damage-types the attach had.
Attck-types is no problem as it can be detected and saved... however damage-type is hard... as there are different damage types on spells. I don't know what the actual difference is in how much damage it gets though.
Also there is a problem if the unit took damage below 1 or when a random raw effect on a basic attack's damage has occurred.

Because of the last one I stopped making my DDS.
Also because I won't be using a DDS at all in my maps
I use an Alternative Damage System.
Stuff with BasicAttack(), DealSpellDamage(), etc when you have removed the standard WC3 damage system.

But still on the existing Damage Detection Systems...
If you add 20 damage to the PDD_Amount, you end up dealing 65 damage. while (25+20)*2*0.9 is 81.

Critical Strike is less systematic and dynamic but you do have a glitchless increase of damage.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Yea the concept is indeed amazing... if you do not have to make your own attack-type and damage-type tables.

If you do a test and check the damage taken on a unit and return the percentage then you get the exact data of the requested/proper damage.
The problem is that you have to know what attack-types and damage-types the attach had.
Attck-types is no problem as it can be detected and saved... however damage-type is hard... as there are different damage types on spells. I don't know what the actual difference is in how much damage it gets though.
Also there is a problem if the unit took damage below 1 or when a random raw effect on a basic attack's damage has occurred.

Because of the last one I stopped making my DDS.
Also because I won't be using a DDS at all in my maps
I use an Alternative Damage System.
Stuff with BasicAttack(), DealSpellDamage(), etc when you have removed the standard WC3 damage system.

But still on the existing Damage Detection Systems...
If you add 20 damage to the PDD_Amount, you end up dealing 65 damage. while (25+20)*2*0.9 is 81.

Critical Strike is less systematic and dynamic but you do have a glitchless increase of damage.

Too bad you gave up, good try.

How do you figure? The calculations are already done and you got your amount that you can edit. By adding 20 you only add 20.

 

[Map Designer]

exactly what wietlol said

in his example, and say i wanted the paladin have +10 in addition to his 25 damage, not in addition to the 45. If I introduce it to the 45, I want to to introduce it with correction and make it 63 i.e. +18 (correction factor 1.8)

the damage detect system cant do that, unliss ofc the way you said which remove all armor (but serioiusly? why not invent another game then )

meh had to spoil my 500 posts :'(

 

[Wietlol]

Also try to use your solution map designer... because I cannot find a way it would bug.

When a unit starts attacking a unit and if the target is undead and the attacker is (paladin or has ability or whatever) and if the attacker is in bonus damage group
then add that unit to bonus damage group and give him a hidden critical strike that deals 10 bonus damage.
If the target is not undead and the attacker is in bonus damage group then
remove the attacker from the group and remove the ability.

Works fine for both melee and ranged units.

 

[aple]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...a-231846/?prev=d=list&r=20&u=looking_for_help Will solve your question map designer.

That fails horribly however it does work for melee. When a unit is attacked is when the attack order fires which is before the actual attack.

From my understanding that's not quite how it works. The Attacked Event fires just as an attack goes out but damage/firing projectiles delays the actual damage because of Backswing and Damage Point. If you set those to 0, it would actually work very accurately with The Attacked event if I'm not mistaken.

The reason why this can be abuseable is because attacks can be cancelled before the Damage Point and Backswing actually finish IE before damage actually happens.

The Unit is Attacked event does NOT fire from the actual order otherwise it'd be no more useful then "A unit is issued an order targeting an object" event with "Order = Attack" Condition.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

From my understanding that's not quite how it works. The Attacked Event fires just as an attack goes out but damage/firing projectiles delays the actual damage because of Backswing and Damage Point. If you set those to 0, it would actually work very accurately with The Attacked event if I'm not mistaken.

The reason why this can be abuseable is because attacks can be cancelled before the Damage Point and Backswing actually finish IE before damage actually happens.

The Unit is Attacked event does NOT fire from the actual order otherwise it'd be no more useful then "A unit is issued an order targeting an object" event with "Order = Attack" Condition.

Funny right? Too bad they actually are equally the same in usefulness. Hope you understand better now. Yeah by getting rid of unit animation you get rid of the bug, but that's too costly for any good game.

Edit: Want to find out why they're the same? Spam stop with a map with this trigger.

Hidden

[trigger=]
Untitled Trigger 012
Events
Unit - A unit Is attacked
Unit - A unit Is issued an order targeting an object
Conditions
Actions
Game - Display to (All players) the text: (Name of (Triggering unit))
Game - Display to (All players) the text: (Name of (Target unit of issued order))
Special Effect - Create a special effect at (Position of (Target unit of issued order)) using Abilities\Spells\Human\ThunderClap\ThunderClapCaster.mdl
Special Effect - Create a special effect at (Position of (Triggering unit)) using Abilities\Spells\Human\ThunderClap\ThunderClapCaster.mdl
[/trigger]

Just disable unit is attacked or the other event to test one or the other. Though even using both will cause it to trigger at the same time which is even better precision.

 

[Wietlol]

From my understanding that's not quite how it works. The Attacked Event fires just as an attack goes out but damage/firing projectiles delays the actual damage because of Backswing and Damage Point. If you set those to 0, it would actually work very accurately with The Attacked event if I'm not mistaken.

The reason why this can be abuseable is because attacks can be cancelled before the Damage Point and Backswing actually finish IE before damage actually happens.

I know that you can cancel an attack and stuff after you gained the ability and before the damage was taken but that doesn't make any difference in this situation.
Even ranged units that attack a unit with low missile speed so the missile would take 5 seconds to reach his target, and then immediately attack a unit next to them so that attack will be before the first one, the first one which was a undead will get bonus damage and the second which was a living unit did not. (Also works the other way around.)

So how can this still fail?

 

[Map Designer]

wait wait

a unit is issued attack order, and a unit is attacked are the same thing? LOL
blizzard is noob

I thought unit is attacked ment that attack animation started or such

anyway, what if the unit was holding formation and then a unit got in-range, and was autmatically attacked by the paladin, (i.e. it wasnt directly ordered by player)

does that give the bonus or not? i.e. does it work as intended?

 

[Wietlol]

I dont know about the order but "A unit is attacked" is exacly when a unit is starting to wind up the attack.

I can see how Issued order to attack could be split up in "Move towards unit" and "Attack unit" though.

A unit is attacked will always run regardless of the order.
I do know that "smart" or "" could also be given when you do "Get current order of unit" when the "A unit is attacked" event fires.