Eternal Heroes

[ks13]

Ok, this is the topic where i'll put all infos and problems encountered in making the campaign

edit : i'll be putting in this post all problems and tasks that are to be done in near future.

- Terain advantages (searchiing a way to do it)
- Soul eating mode (got the idea but have put it in triggers)
- Hero evolutions (first idea abbandoned, with the saving system idea have to make it dynamic)
- Evolvers race

Those above are being done. I'm actually doing all this by myself and i'd like to ask for help, but till i rearranged the terrain i can't do so (will be a major edit). There is still one thing that i might ask help with : heroe's evolutions; if you have an idea of a hero i'll be glad to hear it, or see it if you prefer doing it and sending me the unit done.

 

[Sunny_D]

ok i found the topic. rdy to any help

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Wouldent it have been a good idea to actually have some info or a problem before making the thread?

 

[Sunny_D]

not really. we discussed problems and other things at another thread since now, but then created a new that all things in future related to his map will be bundled in one post (huh, correct me if necessary ks13 ).

the old thread is located here:

http://www.wc3sear.ch/viewtopic.php?t=14404&highlight=

problems and infos will follow i think....

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Okey dokey, just never tjecked that other thread so didnt knew that

 

[ks13]

XD i got plenty of ideas for the ampagn and the multiplayer version maps....now all that's left is to make'em true

ah, i also found a way for the save system, a dynamic save system....all that's left is to create an encoding process so people won't be able to use it at will. i mean, of course people will be able to see the system or change ti since i'll leave the map unportected, but at least i'll try to create an encoding system that will keep off all noobies from abusing it, which should be enough to keep the maps safe, since i don't think people that are good at map making or programming will be evil enough to play wiht it or they simply won't be interested in it enough to try anything (i sincerely hope so u_u)

anyway, i really want to put all those ideas into the map, but, i believe that as well as an almost feature-free map will be boring to general public, a feature-full map will be boring too. so i'll try to put only some of the ideas into this first map and distribute the remaining ideas to other maps.

there is a general summary of what i'll put into the map as my signature. i'll put detailed info once i decided what exactly will the map contain.

last thing : i wanted to inmort some mp3 abience music in the map so not to have the same old ambience music as in all the maps, but as it is, i'm afraid that the map, without the mp3 will border 4Mb, which is the limit for a multiplayer map, and i won't be able to add any music. but i'll be sure to put some in the campaign since there is no limit in single player maps.

 

[Sunny_D]

duh, yea i wanted some custom mp3-music too in my map, but i didnt find a way to reduce the size below 1 MB. and even 1 MB would be too big for my b.net - map. maybe there is a tool in the tool-section for that - i didnt check yet...
at least there is now limit to SP-campaigns, ye.

for the save code: there are many ways to do a good save code. for example create some variable-librarys containing different letters/number. for each thing you want to save you use substrings to get one of those letters. then you mix the different parts of the save code and combine it in one string and show it the player.
and in the load trigger u do the same up-side-down and add some conditions like compare substrings of the code and if they fit each other then they can load.
the more conditions the saver it is...

 

[ks13]

Uhhhh....i was trying to get some free time to continue the map but never got it. Anyway, thanks to that i was able to think about units and dynamic unit spawning (i don't like it when i have to make tons of triggers for spawning because of too many units), and i got an idea of a new race....i got the idea of the race by playing Earth 2160. I'll try to do something similar to the alien race, but i don't want it to be exactly the same, i mean, i don't want it to be a mere copy, but i find the building system quite interesting. The building system isn't hard to reproduce but the units are problem...

 

[Sunny_D]

The building system isn't hard to reproduce but the units are problem...

hm... if you mean that you need new models to be done, well i cant do that. on a scale of 1 to 10 i give myself a -5 for modelling. huh, to be more clearly: i didnt even try it ONCE :shock: .

 

[ks13]

Yea, i meant models, and, i got 3DS MAX 7 you see, the problem is i absolutely don't know how to use it u_u or else i'd be doing new models by now. If need be for new models (i'll try to make do with the default ones) i'll try to find some here, giving credits to their creators of course

 

[ks13]

Okay, i thought a bit about the evolutions and came up with the first version of the evolution tree (first version means obviously that it will or may be changed) :

Basic form : Spirit of the fallen

1st forms :
- 1st choice : Constructor; Evolution : Constructor II
- 2nd choice : Holy Knight; Evolution : Half-god/Demi-god
- 3rd choice : War Machine; Destroyer
- 4th choice : Berserker; U-Kamikaze
- 5th choice : Ninja; Shadow Master
- 6th choice : Necromancer; Summoner
- 7th choice : Orc Brute; Death Bringer
- 8th choice : Elf Wizard; Element Master
- 9th choice : Troll Thrower; Sniper
- 10th choice : Aracnoïd; The Queen

Okay, now for some details : since it's the first ersion i didn't bother much to find realistic names, but i'll try to adapt some of those so they fit in the game (kamikaze, ninja, sniper...). Also, i don't know exactly about the multiplayer mode yet, but i'll try to add some hidden evolutions for the campaign mode, and, if possible, i'll make each evolution unlockable with some side quests, which should add some fun to the campaign.

Last but not least, even though i thought up those evolutions, i still have to think about the spells, and i'd be grateful i some of you can help me with this and think about some spells matching with the evolutions i wrote (that is the second reason i wrote the evolutions).

Unfotunately, i wasn't able to continue making the map but i think i'll be able to do some work on it soon. I think that if this continues i won't be able to finish not only the campaign but even the simple multiplayer map u_u. so i'll try to do some work on this whenever i can.

 

[Modeler]

the save system, a dynamic save system

Hasnt anyone heard of a game cache? Save systems in campaigns are a blatent waste of time. Just see the tutorial on game caches somewhere in the tutorial section.

Now regarding the campaign, do you have a general story of the campaign? Or are you just going to "go with the flow"?

 

[Sunny_D]

do you have a general story of the campaing, or.....

once again: thats a continue of the following topic: i think ks13 posted there the story of this campaign and some basic ideas. go check it out:

http://www.wc3sear.ch/viewtopic.php?t=14404&highlight=

Last but not least, even though i thought up those evolutions, i still have to think about the spells, and i'd be grateful i some of you can help me with this and think about some spells matching with the evolutions i wrote (that is the second reason i wrote the evolutions).

well i think i have some basic ideas:

to 1: hm... basically create mechanical unit/buildings and is able to repair mechanical units. maybe a robotic dog or whatever (i think there are good mechanic skins in the skins-section) what follows you and guard you.

to 2: (btw semi-god is correct word i think) well, that seems to be your standard knight so i would give him something like that: critical, self-heal, and something like defense from soldiers and an ultimate (maybe you can decide whether he becomes a good or an evil semi-god....)

to 3: is this a mechanical? sounds as he needs some really heavy bash or something

to 4:of course: berserker spell (grows a bit, glow on sword or weapon with faster attack/movement speed), kamikaze(hurts himself, deals high damgage)

to 5:invisibility or windwalk-like, maybe a jump-attack with stun and high dmg (i think there is a tutorial about that...), shadow-gate (demons from "another dimension", or becomes invisible when stands in shadow (huh,hope thats trigger-possible...)

to 6:well, that sounds easy (summon different units) and maybe increase stats or duration of summoned and a unit-controll spell and a high-dmg destroy enemy summoned... too ordinary? :?

to 7:hm... is that one like berserker or whats the difference?

to 8:ah one of my favourite i think, maybe elven archers support or climb trees and hide there or talk to animals and for the element master yea all kind of element magic (water-heal, earth-stun, fire-hurt, wind-err whatever) or he can morph into different elemental units like golem, firelord or water-summon...

to 9:headshot, increase sight-range or/and weapon range, semi-automatic (can shoot much, much higher attk-rate for some sec) or a penetrating shot.

to 10:hm... summon spider spawns (minions to lords), burrow in earth, kinda poison spell or web...


well, thats what i got in a first thought, i think i can find some more in future. but i suggest to use completely different spells for the different evolutions - much more work - but that makes your map much more interesting. hope that helped you a bit.

 

[ks13]

Hmmmm, i guess i should've explained what kind of unit is each of those :

1st : well, as Sunny_D said it's the unit/machine builder. i think mechanic units/buildings repair isn't a bad idea, but, although i said i want to let him have spells i don't think i'll let him have offensive spells because this unit is a supportive kind of unit and as one it can't have offense as it's major.

2nd : Yep, this is your standard knight. and because it's a standard unit i think i should find some non-standard spells for him.

3rd : This unit is fully mechanical. The first idea i got of it was a tank-like unit. therefore it wouldn't be able to restore itself, at first. i guess i should add a self-repair system spell.

4th : this unit will be a problem in balancing. wouldn't want me to make a mistake make him too powerful when using berserker mode, would you?

5th : yep, as you said Sunny_D, this unit will have hiding abilities and high damage spells. i thought i should add a shadow-related spell. something like : the ninja uses forbiden jutsu for controlling shadows and steal the opponents shadow. without a shadow the opponents health decreases till death, it's unstoppable once lauched.

6th : the necromancer.....well, standard unit, but as i said i don't wan't standard spells for those. so i think that i'll let him have standard undead summoning. but for the other apells i have to think a bit.

7th : this absolutely isn't the same as the berserker. the berserker is a unit that sacrifice health to gain power. but the brute is powerful, has high defence, but is weak to magic, or it should be. i don't really know how to do this unit, i mean, is it possible to make one unit resistant to physical attacks and not to magical ones?

8th : this one isn't much of a problem. i mean, elemental user, could think of hundreds of spells for this one but i have nothing precise yet for him.

9th : i know elves are the best archers but this isn't an archer. as it's name suggest it throws. the units among trolls that throw are the one using lances and using axes. so i think the first version will be the axe thrower then the lance thrower. and as a sniper it should be able to kill at long range which is difficult with your arm for sole weapon, isn't it? so maybe a spell for long range vision and a special spell for instant kill at long range (like a real sniper) will do the trick?

10th : well, after playing the arachna campaign i thught an racnian unit will not be bad as idea. but i dun't want to simply copy the unit from the campaign, that's why i'll have to make new spells. maybea unit eating spell will be good with this one. i mean, it's a giant spider, what do you think it eats?

okay, this is the general idea i had when writing about the evolutions.

last but not least : i know about the game cache, but unless i'm mistaken, it saves the hero into a file, or, it's easy to replace a gamecache file with another one. whatsmore you don't even have to know how the names are encoded when giving the load code because all you have to do is name it as your gamecache and replace it. that's why i don't want to use this function in multiplayer maps. but i will use it in the campaign. because there are more ceaters than regular fair-play players you have to think about thos things before acting, or else every cheater will be able to cheat in your map making it undesirable by all players.

also, as Sunnny-D said, this is a continuation of a previous topic i started, but again, it doesn't answer to your question : no it's not a 'go with the flow" campaign or the story. actually it may seem like a pretty regular plot to you, as it is for me, but it's the only that fits with the mods and maps i want to put in this campaign.

by the way, talking about the campaign, i decided not to make it like regular campaigns, by this i mean i will not use the campaign making tool from WE or WEU. why? because i'll make this campaign explore system like the one of the horde bonus campaign, where you get to go to other maps while still doing missions in the first one. and by doing that it means that when i add a new map or edit one that was already released the player will have to dowload anew the whole campaign file which may will grow larger with each file. so i thought it's better to simply put all maps into one folder and begin with the first one. there is no need to worry about someone trying to play another before the first because if there is no gamecache with a hero there will be no unit for the player to use, if the map oepns that is (there will be problems launching the map without a gamecache...or not?). this has also another meaning : this campaign will be totally "open source". sonce i will not use protection on the maps anyone will be able to add a map to the campaign....this last statement brings good news as well as bad ones : the good one is that anyone will be able to add a map to the campaign and the bad one is that anyone will be able to add a map to the campaign. what i mean, if you haven't figured it out yet, is that if the campaign is good enought to get attention from many players, there is a probability there might be countless versions of one or several maps including some maps made by several people and not compatible at all...

anyway, enough of my ranting, we shall see what happens when the campaign is done.

 

[Sunny_D]

just wanted to ask if you are still there .

are you still working on your campaign and are there some important progresses?