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Development Update #2

Discussion in 'Sunken City' started by SpasMaster, Jul 15, 2018.

  1. SpasMaster

    SpasMaster

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    Development Update #2

    Greetings to all Sunken City players. This post should give an idea about what you can expect from the next major update of the map. Keep in mind that what I am about to explain is not set in stone, but should give an idea about the direction that the development is taking.



    The latest Warcraft 3 Patches

    Most of you already know that Warcraft 3 has received several updates in the past year which also included World Editor changes, some of which are very important. Some of the things added in the patch will greatly improve my in-editor experience by providing alternative and more simple and flexible ways to do things that before required more complex approach. But here are the things that would be noticeable by you, the players:

    • Cooldown Reduction: This stat and the effects that come with it have become a possibility since one of the recent patches and will likely have huge implications. As of the time this post is being written it is still impossible to reduce the remaining cooldown of skills, but it is very likely that it would also become a reality at some point.
      Due to how Sunken City abilities are balanced, it would be challenging to fit this very impactful stat into the game. Design approaches such as reducing the cooldown of specific types of skills (Damaging, Healing, etc) would be possible and might be one of the ways that cooldown reduction will find its way into the map.
    • Buff Stacking: The upcoming 1.30 patch for Warcraft 3 will allow for the editor to handle the stacking of buffs based on the same type. This has been a major dent in my work for years and now that it would be out of the way, many new effects will appear into the game. For example, there is only one buff in the game that gives bonus Attack Damage and Armor at the same time - Inner Fire. Since buffs didn't stack until now, I had to find alternative ways to give a single unit two separate sources of these two stats. These alternative ways sometimes consumed more editor space which was limiting in many ways. There are many more similar improvements that will come thanks to this addition to the Editor.
    • Reversable Upgrades: Once more a change that has been bothering me for a long time. Thanks to the newly added function to reverse the level of upgrades, few things have been made possible which you can already see in the recent 2.4.3 update of Sunken City, namely the Runestone System and the ability to reset ESC Stat Points. Going forward, this would allow me to create effects that previously were difficult, space-consuming or even impossible to do.
    • And more: In addition to improved functions to trigger functions, newly added things like the ability to change ability icons, item tooltips and such will lead into talents and item effects that would be more satisfying and creative.

    I wanted to go over these additions to the Editor so I can segway into the specifics:



    Hero Changes

    Mastery
    The new editor functions will allow me to take a new and more flexible approach to how Mastery works.
    Currently the Mastery stat has a different effect for each hero that uses it. Since Mastery has a single effect on each hero, often there are Talents that include Mastery scaling in them to allow the usage of the stat in other builds. A good example would be the Hunter whose Mastery increases the damage dealt by her pets. That hero, however, also has a spellcaster build in which Mastery is an often found stat. To allow the stat to be used by the Hunter within that build, a Talent was added called "Way of the Ranger" that increases the damage dealt by abilities, scaling with Mastery.

    While this approach does work, it has drawbacks and doesn't achieve what I would ideally want it to.

    The change to the Mastery I have in mind would allow the player to toggle between different Mastery effects and would include a default bonus even if you have 0 Mastery. Here is an example that is in no way final and is just to give you an idea of how the change is going to look.

    Hunter Mastery:
    Beast Mastery: Increases the damage dealt by the Hunter's pets by 5%, increased by 0,2% for each point of Mastery.
    Marksmanship: Increases the damage dealt by the Hunter's abilities by 5%, increased by 0,2% for each point of Mastery.
    Survival: Increases the damage dealt by the Hunter's auto-attacks by 5%, increased by 0,2% for each point of Mastery.


    You would always have 1 of the available masteries to your hero active, but you will have the ability to toggle between them and choose the one that fits your playstyle best.

    Talents
    Currently the Talents in Sunken City serve the following purpose: They are the thing within the hero's kit that determines what playstlye a hero can go for. They alter, improve, adjust or add to skills in order to make them most suitable for a build. I am satisfied with their function, however, I want to add a bit more choice and decision making to them. Currently, with many heroes, you pick an ideal combination of 3 talents for a build, but a 4th potential option rarely exists. There are 3 talent options for a "crit" Warrior - exactly the amount of slots you have available. Aside from choosing the talents for a specific build, there is very rarely a choice of talents within that build.

    To address that, heroes will gain access to additional 5 Talents per hero. Additionally, in the next major update, heroes will be designed in such way that they will have at most 3 builds available to them and a minimum of 2 builds. With that design, the then total of 15 talents would be distributed as follows:

    For heroes with 2 builds - ~7 Talents per build (with possible hybrid/utility options)
    For heroes with 3 builds - ~5 Talents per build (with possible hybrid/utility options)

    Glyphs
    As of currently, there are 4 new planned Glyphs with 2 replacements planned. These new Glyphs would either:
    A: Fill up the gaps for builds that lack Glyph options
    B: Introduce Glyphs that utilize the new Editor functions (Like Cooldown Reduction)

    The "R" Skill
    This last change under the Hero Changes category is the least certain one and I am still figuring out how exactly I want to approach it, but here is the current plans:

    I plan to include an additional skill to all heroes that is available at all times and would be a "Normal" ability (meaning that it could theoretically be replaced via Talents). That skill would not necessarily be an active one and in certain hero cases might be a transfer of a very core talent into that skill slot, thus eliminating the "must-have" nature of a talent within the kit.

    As I proceed with the specific designs of heroes, the nature and future of this change will be decided.



    Item Changes
    When it comes to items, plenty of major changes will be coming:

    First of all, the removal of the On-Hit build. Few months ago, I decided to remove the On-Hit build for 2 reasons, the first being that gameplay-wise, the build plays the exact same way as Crit, however it only has one common stat with Crit, that being Attack Speed. This pretty much forces items that are aimed to be designed as useable by both On-Hit and Crit builds to have Attack Speed in them. Not only does this makes the items become very similar really fast, but it also creates an over-abundance of attack speed items.

    Secondly, the thematic role of the On-Hit build (a magical auto-attacker) would be taken instead by the Hybrid auto-attacker/spellcaster build. This has already pretty much happened in the current version as heroes like the Paladin and Shaman became hybrid auto-attacker/spellcasters instead of On-Hit heroes.

    That being said, a new build will appear that would take up the place of the On-Hit build which will include more common points between different builds and would enable the design of more interesting "hybrid" talents that would break away from the "must-have" items.

    Before I can talk about that build, I will have to talk about the addition of two new spell types: Physical and Summoning. Additionally, the Damaging Type spellcasts would be called "Magical" instead. Here is a list of the spell types that will be available:

    Physical
    Magical
    Healing
    Summoning
    N/A

    Important to note is that the Physical and Magical spell types will always be mutually exclusive (meaning that you will never find a spell that is classified as both).
    So what would be the role of the Physical type spells? Well, many abilities that are currently classified as Damaging Type will be split between Physical and Magical. Here is a non-final example list:

    Physical Spellcasters:
    • Necromancer
    • Warrior
    • Tidewarrior
    • Rogue
    • Hunter
    • Windmaster
    • Berserker

    A pair of spellcaster and attacker builds would appear after these changes:

    Spellcaster Builds:
    Attacker Builds:
    Magical Caster
    (Represented by heroes like Mage, Druid, Ice Lancer, etc)
    Magical Attacker
    (The current Hybrid attacker/spellcaster build, represented by heroes like Paladin, Shaman)
    Physical Caster
    (Represented by heroes like Warrior, Rogue, etc)
    Physical Attacker
    (Either a Crit build or a build that would include more spellcasting, similar to the Magical Attacker, but with Physical spells. The two variations would have a lot of common items)


    Aside from the removal of all On-Hit items, other changes would include:
    • Replacement of underused items or items that are too specific and/or restricting.
    • Reworks of several items that are currently only used within one build (and are often a must have within that build) into items that would be useable in additional builds.
    • Removal or rework of stat-generator items which are only good if purchased as first item (ex: Sacrificial Tome). I still want stat-generator items to exist, but with the inclusion of some form of mechanic that wouldn't completely discourage the purchase of the item if it's not your first.
    • Other minor adjustments & balance changes to other items which wouldn't receive major changes.



    Conclusion
    All of these changes aim to introduce some of the new effects that the latest patches made possible, while also increasing the choices you have when choosing a build, either through more talent options that offer at least some decision making, through the rework of items in ways which would make them an option in more than one build and through more Glyph options which would offer options to builds that don't have that many right now.

    That's what I have for you for the time being. Let me know what your thoughts are!
    See you around!
     
  2. Vunjo

    Vunjo

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  3. Burndead

    Burndead

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    Ok, this is just awesome.

    It seems to me the map is heading to a new place, more evolved in so many directions and as of now, a bit overwhelming. Nonetheless, it will take a lot of time to implement this but it will be worth waiting.
    Anyway, I want to see more of the dungeon feeling the map got a long time ago. But still, that's just me, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
  4. SpasMaster

    SpasMaster

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    Can you elaborate a bit on what you refer to as "dungeon feeling" so I can take it consideration?
     
  5. Burndead

    Burndead

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    Don't get me wrong and I've said it before but if you play an older version like 0.90 or 1.10 , there is an unique, distinctive feeling that the map gives you.
    A sense of danger, of chaos, of old ruins, of mind boggling puzzles. A sense where you know you can't be safe anywhere on the map.
    Way more atmospheric than it is right now and that was the real charm of it.

    But still, words can't describe it. Play and see it for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
  6. Gluma

    Gluma

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    Hey spas
    You used some of my models in the last patch (lizards), which is cool, didnt expect a major hive project to pick them up. There's a minor problem though

    Some of them are from 2014-2015 era when I didnt know how to lower the XP bar and use collision spheres, which makes them quite inconvenient to use ingame. Theyre easy to misclick, which can lead to a lot of failed spell timing. Wether its worth to bother is up to you, but I'd recommend using the updated ones in the next update

    Love you map btw, played it with some friends a while ago but we never managed to beat it
     
  7. SpasMaster

    SpasMaster

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    You shouldn't be surprised, because you are showing us some top quality modeling. :)

    I did notice you've been updating them recently and I'll make sure I use the updated ones in the near future, because as of right now, your lizard models have only been imported for future use but aren't yet implemented in the game itself. As soon as I start working on the mode in which they will appear, I will make sure they are up to date! :)
    I also noticed that I forgot to include you in the credits list which will be fixed later today.
     
  8. Gluma

    Gluma

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    Cool thanks :cgrin:
     
  9. Silva

    Silva

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    Sounds great, looking forward for the next updates.