Deleted resources

[The Big M]

By maps, I meant actual maps that use the models for characters, NPCs etc. not crappy model packs under the guise of a map.

To be fair it was quite some effort to place all the models down on the map so they can be viewed. and the site already hosts templates (i mean ultimate terraining map is basically what i have)

I understand quite a lot, might even be with you on the deal but the point is there's times in life when you want some of your past deleted whether others agree with that or not. I've had musicians on YouTube that I followed which simply one day decided the stuff they uploaded until then did not represent them anymore and simply took it all down. I hated that but that's their choice eventually. Whether someone was lucky and can do rogue uploads, that's another discussion which might or might not be moral.

Id say youtube is quite different than something like hive its first a platform to showcase yourself (it has a future its poised to be forever full of opportunities) - whereas hive is about wc3 community and resources (small niche dying very small opportunities). Nor do i believe its beneficial for hive to act in such a way for everything on this platform like drawings or even music or ip.... tho id have to think about this a bit more (just resources for the game)
That said people wanting to distance themselves from past work is a good point, and totally solvable - they can just remove their name off the stuff they upload (maybe the only way to do that now is to delete stuff which again we wouldnt want)

Well it matters when such users either upload joke material without any improvement or are menacing users (I dunno, convinced Nazis, Commies, religious fundamentalists, essentially people who spread harming ideas and such).

Maybe i need to clarify my point - if ppl upload viruses or broken buggy stuff yeah u should temp ban their ability to upload but not to discuss because they havent missused that the otherway too if theyre people spreading harmful ideas that doesent prevent them from creating useful resources AND limiting everything is just wasteful besides not being very helpful in changing their behavior

 

[deepstrasz]

To be fair it was quite some effort to place all the models down on the map so they can be viewed. and the site already hosts templates (i mean ultimate terraining map is basically what i have)

The point of a template map is to be used as terrain or trigger systems which work as a whole (for example a RPG map template; otherwise you should just import various ones) not to hoard imported files. UTM is a good idea but not a real template unless resources are custom made. Besides now we can simply save maps as folders so you can easily make your own UTM with the desired imports. There's no point in making "templates" in everyone's vision and upload them. Not to mention, we also have a Ported section where people upload various models from games which can easily be added to the folder map format.

That said people wanting to distance themselves from past work is a good point, and totally solvable - they can just remove their name off the stuff they upload (maybe the only way to do that now is to delete stuff which again we wouldnt want)

Well it might not actually work that way all the time. You'd need to change your name on other platforms or deleted those accounts too in case some sites link to you there.
We'd also want to not attract their spamwrath afterwards if their stuff remains when they want it all deleted. As I wrote earlier, it's important to have decent users above artists/whatever.

 

[The Big M]

Well it might not actually work that way all the time. You'd need to change your name on other platforms or deleted those accounts too in case some sites link to you there.
We'd also want to not attract their spamwrath afterwards if their stuff remains when they want it all deleted. As I wrote earlier, it's important to have decent users above artists/whatever.

Well yeah depending on the level of dissapearing and dissasociating they want to do - but this is still true regardless of what hive does (the only thing hive can do is provide them means of removing mentions scrambling account name etc... but deleting resources benefits no1 so that shouldnt be a thing they can do)
Would a decent use spamwrath or be vicious in general especially when they agreed to such rules in the first place (hive also owns the resources and they cant be deleted or replaced) not only that but in practice its impossible to fully prevent wrathful behavior BUT them not being sole owners of resources they publish on the site would actually DEFEND hive in a situation where they are looking for vengeance.... because right now if they want to they could demand you remove all maps with their models in them.

If anything not allowing them to play god with their donation and fuck everyone else is a barrier against hateful artists/whatever both in driving those people away and preventing those who have fallen
Tho aiming for a middle ground i wonder what u think of my earlier suggestion:

• delete is removed, if sadly not then once the request to delete is sent forth a period of consideration starts (3-6 weeks? maybe more..) at the end of which the deletion can actually happen, manually, by another click (also giving notification and time for people to collect it in case they didnt because they didnt consider something stupid and dont have unlimited storage and or easy time searching for files)

Or even the otherway around where a delete is in the moment but its temporary and will the resource will resurface after some time and maybe then it can be deleted (tho obv ideally u dont get to delete resources and if hive owns them too u could do a relieve stress temp delete) tho if hive also owns the resources upon upload i really dont see spamwrath as valid really

 

[deepstrasz]

because right now if they want to they could demand you remove all maps with their models in them.

Well, not really, since it's more of a site thing, not the law. The point was to also give the authors full rights with the risks mentioned, their stuff being in maps (which were uploaded before said author decided to commit sati).
The main point is not to have anyone else own your stuff. Like Blizzard owns your ideas from maps made with the World Editor but would take down stuff they're not comfortable with. Absurd and nasty.
So, I'm definitely not into taking intellectual property for myself forever once it was given to me as a gift, more like borrowed, or if you will, licensed to. It's like having a book from the library for a certain period of time. It doesn't become yours.
Hence why giving authors reason to think twice if they'd want to upload their stuff, risking penalty here is a better idea, IMO, since their stuff isn't automatically forever becoming the site's without any possibility to delete (well shady things could be done but mods could restore those resources eventually). So uploading without being able to delete=less freedom than being able to delete but getting temporary digital scorn if you do it.
It would be nice for everyone to simply share and let their stuff go so to speak but reality isn't such an utopia. Forcefully making it so comes with disadvantages. I wouldn't want to imagine the "nice" media the site would have gotten if those particular users wouldn't have had their deletion demands in effect. Or multi accounts and more time wasting for mods to take care of them and their trash threads and posts on the subject.
But in the end users in this thread state their view and ultimately it's the site administrators who decide what's best for their site or from their point of view.

 

[General Frank]

Well, not really, since it's more of a site thing, not the law. The point was to also give the authors full rights with the risks mentioned, their stuff being in maps (which were uploaded before said author decided to commit sati).
The main point is not to have anyone else own your stuff. Like Blizzard owns your ideas from maps made with the World Editor but would take down stuff they're not comfortable with. Absurd and nasty.
So, I'm definitely not into taking intellectual property for myself forever once it was given to me as a gift, more like borrowed, or if you will, licensed to. It's like having a book from the library for a certain period of time. It doesn't become yours.
Hence why giving authors reason to think twice if they'd want to upload their stuff, risking penalty here is a better idea, IMO, since their stuff isn't automatically forever becoming the site's without any possibility to delete (well shady things could be done but mods could restore those resources eventually). So uploading without being able to delete=less freedom than being able to delete but getting temporary digital scorn if you do it.
It would be nice for everyone to simply share and let their stuff go so to speak but reality isn't such an utopia. Forcefully making it so comes with disadvantages. I wouldn't want to imagine the "nice" media the site would have gotten if those particular users wouldn't have had their deletion demands in effect. Or multi accounts and more time wasting for mods to take care of them and their trash threads and posts on the subject.
But in the end users in this thread state their view and ultimately it's the site administrators who decide what's best for their site or from their point of view.

If Hive decides that they 'own' the resources and assets people upload then I have a feeling that many people will delete and maybe even overwrite their resources.
It has been done before by some people and we as a community have lost of a lot of good stuff - This was done because the authors did not agree with how bad Hive was run at the time and how staff was abusing their power.
Now imagine if the rules and some sort of 'end user ""license"" agreement' would change to the point where people would not know about it and would no longer be 'owner' of their creation. That could lead to someone with enough financial power (or just simple crowdfunding) would sue the Hive and it would be a bad time for everyone. No one wants that to happen, I think.

Uploads are voluntary and the authors should be honoured and their rights respected. It is a shame if someone deletes their resources because of any reason, but it is not our right to talk bad about it. A bit of empathy goes a long way. Try to understand why they did it and what might have been done wrong to them in the first place. I can name you a handful of examples of people deleting their resources and most of them make sense and are relatable. Some are not.
But that's how things go usually.

 

[deepstrasz]

If Hive decides that they 'own' the resources and assets people upload then I have a feeling that many people will delete and maybe even overwrite their resources.

Yeah, was just thinking of this today, that I forgot writing about it. Thanks!
If such a rule would pass, then it shouldn't act retrospectively. But then, it would create complications regardless, like the one you wrote about which is in my estimation, highly likely.
I feel we should definitely talk about it and not say it's OK in cases where/when it's not. Hence why I suggested temporary penalty. And I still stand by the idea that if you don't think your stuff should be on this site, you shouldn't too, at least not to be taken seriously in any discussion related to the site. I'm referring to the extreme cases where sense/rationale behind the deletion is little to none.

 

[General Frank]

Yeah, was just thinking of this today, that I forgot writing about it. Thanks!
If such a rule would pass, then it shouldn't act retrospectively. But then, it would create complications regardless, like the one you wrote about which is in my estimation, highly likely.

I mean, it has been decided without the inclusion of authors of assets and maps that are long gone that their stuff is 'free game' unless stated otherwise or when the author comes back and decides not to allow messing with their stuff. That has also been done sort of retrospectively.
It is a very wobbly middle ground there and I feel it is morally extremely bad. Sure having a lot of resources is good for the financial health of the Hive and to attract people, but without any good morality this is not a good way in the long run.

I don't know. I am afraid of a time where Hive becomes a place where no one is respected and every thing people (and staff mostly) is a lie towards the users who build and building the community.

 

[deepstrasz]

I don't know. I am afraid of a time where Hive becomes a place where no one is respected and every thing people (and staff mostly) is a lie towards the users who build and building the community.

Well, if it's been OK until now, with the same management (owner[s?]). It's improbable to change. Generally these things happen when there's money involved and currently the one which is, is advertising related but within the site and its scope. And no one is compelled to pay anything.

 

[General Frank]

Well, if it's been OK until now, with the same management (owner[s?]). It's improbable to change. Generally these things happen when there's money involved and currently the one which is, is advertising related but within the site and its scope. And no one is compelled to pay anything.

That's fair.
But complacency and laziness might also lead to bad things.
I of course hope that it will not.

 

[Krumpe]

TL;DR version of thread from my perspective and based on other context:

1. Hiveworkshop is respecting authors requests to have resources removed, which is a perfectly understandable and reasonable thing to do; quite frankly it protects the owners of the site against any litigation or other negative backlash (unlikely to happen, but people are crazy)

2. Any person is foolish to think that once something hits the internet that it isn't going to make its rounds independent of the original creator or independent of what the creator might have intended; ownership becomes a tricky thing after something is released for free

Personal thoughts:

I have some small understanding on why one or two people removed their stuff (no need to regurgitate it here anymore, it has been talked to death in other threads on the forums), and the only people they hurt was themselves at the end of the day IMO (regardless of their reasoning). Some of their models are still available on other sites, which I am tactfully not posting here, but they are still very much available to the public (at least one that I know of).

I love this hobby, love this game (though Blizzard is a complete wreck at this point), but the thing that keeps me coming back are the creative minds that continue to produce unique and thoughtful models (icons and other resources too). I appreciate what some creators go through, they provide FREE stuff for very little praise in return and have to endure the possibility of their intellectual property being lifted by someone trying to cut corners.

So, yeah, thanks to everyone that have decided to stick it out and keep their resources up despite all the turmoil of recent times.