Debate about SC2 being the best game ever.

[Dreadnought[dA]]

the only reason im getting SC2 is because the map editor is going to be 10x more powerful.
Plus this is a modding website in the first place so..

Oh I'm sure the normal gameplay will be totally amazing.

So far I can't find a flaw in the game. Everything ATM since battle report 3 looks amazing except you can get those Nullifiers a little too soon. Other than that the game is the greatest IMO.

 

[PurplePoot]

And is WoW the best game ever? I didn't say if game ^ then price is ^. I just said its damn expensive bcuz u have to pay the campaigns separately and I'm saying this relative to Starcraft I and Warcraft III. In Wc3 u buy RoC u get Orcs, Night Elves, Humans, and Undead campaign in one package.

Sc2 you have to buy them separately, not to mention the expansion packs. Oh boy...

...

They are the expansion packs (meaning new content will also come with them), and each one is longer than the combined campaigns of other games, meaning you are getting better value.

If you don't want them, don't get them. In the mean time, don't spread misinformation about their nature.

 

[bboy-tiger-]

I dont like idea about releasing game in 3 pieces... they could make 1 and then in few months release one by one...

WoW is ok game but its expensive and can become boring...

SC2 will be a blast, coz it will be real RTS, wc3 was more like hero focus.
SC was always fast army combat. And now it has editor that can create whatever you want. Blast.

BTW is there any SC2 modding site ?

 

[Bane]

When SC2 is released i have heared that there will be a SC2 section of the hive

 

[Ricardo Irving]

Of course there will be, and probably a Far Cry 2 section and Halo section and...others.

 

[bboy-tiger-]

Of course there will be, and probably a Far Cry 2 section and Halo section and...others.

ahahahahaaha
I killed myself out of laughter xD

Well there will be subsection probbly, but small, doubt it will be something big. Are there any SC2 sites already ?

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

one of the admins that I used to have a contact with, Wolverabid, told me there's gonna be a SC2 section with sumbsections in paralel to those for war3. But that was said like in 2006..

 

[Bane]

Of course there will be, and probably a Far Cry 2 section and Halo section and...others.

Stop mocking me kid. I have already posted about this and a moderator replied telling me that the hive will have a SC2 side just like it has a WC3 side. I'll try to find the post for you. Don't mock people if you have no basis behind your argument and will just turn out looking stupid.

ahahahahaaha
I killed myself out of laughter xD

Well there will be subsection probbly, but small, doubt it will be something big. Are there any SC2 sites already ?

You are wrong aswell.

-Bane

Edit: Found the thread and the post by Ash with a quote from ralle, link:

Wrong section, sorta, but quoting Ralle; 'The Hive is already prepping systems to support SC2... THW will not die with WC3'.

There you go, don't rip on peoples comments especially if theyre right.

 

[PurplePoot]

We will be emphasizing StarCraft II modding when it comes about, yes.

 

[BlinkforFear]

... hasnt the best game ever already come out... starcraft 1 ?

 

[Bane]

but starcraft 2 is bound to be 10x better than starcraft 1, therefore making it the best game ever.

 

[bboy-tiger-]

Stop mocking me kid. I have already posted about this and a moderator replied telling me that the hive will have a SC2 side just like it has a WC3 side. I'll try to find the post for you. Don't mock people if you have no basis behind your argument and will just turn out looking stupid.



You are wrong aswell.

-Bane

Edit: Found the thread and the post by Ash with a quote from ralle, link:


There you go, don't rip on peoples comments especially if theyre right.

I wasnt laughing to you I was laughing on sentence that other guy said to you .


I know already 2 sites for SC2 that will focus on SC2 only, as hive focuses on wc3, and later wil be focusing on SC2, but still... wc3 will be number 1 here.

 

[Gilles]

but starcraft 2 is bound to be 10x better than starcraft 1, therefore making it the best game ever.

10x better? More like 10x exactly the same game.

 

[Bane]

bboy-tiger- my comment wasnt directed at you.
Give me a link to one successful SC2 modding website.
And if you read the quote correctly Ralle said that hive will not die with WC3, i believe SC2 will be just as big as WC3 when it arrives.

 

[Ricardo Irving]

... hasnt the best game ever already come out... starcraft 1 ?

Nah, W3. 10x 96 = uh, 10 x 6 = 60, 10 x 90 = 90...180...270...360...450...540...630...720...810...900 + 60 = 960. Fuck, a game with a score of 960. Amazing. I will kill my self if I do not get this within the next two decades. Rofl.

 

[Gilles]

You did all that math to figure out 10 x 96? lol

 

[PurplePoot]

The people who say that StarCraft is the same as StarCraft II are being idiots—beyond an interface upgrade and AI fixes, the races have in many cases very different approaches to similar problems—and so are those that say it will be quite different—the game shares many common elements. I suspect it won't be as good as StarCraft, but close, although the interface upgrades will be welcome.

 

[The World Is Flat]

I think it has promise to be an excellent game.

 

[Ricardo Irving]

You did all that math to figure out 10 x 96? lol

Lol. For dramatic effect.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

starcraft 2 has too much of expectations, it will never live up to it. remember Spore anyone?
i mean, of course it will be good but i dont expect much from it. i am just looking forward to the zergs and making models afterwards

 

[Gilles]

The people who say that StarCraft is the same as StarCraft II are being idiots—beyond an interface upgrade and AI fixes, the races have in many cases very different approaches to similar problems—and so are those that say it will be quite different—the game shares many common elements. I suspect it won't be as good as StarCraft, but close, although the interface upgrades will be welcome.

At the core it's the same game. Doesn't mean that's a bad thing, I just would personally have liked to see some core changes.

 

[Ricardo Irving]

Hmm, yes, I am having second thoughts, too. I absolutely loved WarCraft's "everybody is powerful with their own use" and hero stuff, and close up stuff, and that lead to shooters and RPG's.

 

[Ghost765]

ok, im not gonna bother sifting through pages 3 and 4 but heres what i think.
Starcraft will be a decent game, but not the best rts by far. It lacks a few things IMO that would make it a ton more fun.
1.Cover - There doesnt seem to be any form of cover that imparts defensive bonuses. take Company of Heroes for example, walls and such block direct shots (from tanks/AT guns), while offering excellent cover for infantry against other infantry

2. 2+ Levels of Pathing - Once again, im not absolutely positive, but SC doesnt seem to have 2 or more levels of pathing (going under bridges while units go over them). This was an annoying problem for me in Wc3, and I dont think they fixed in SC. The only RTS that I've seen with this is Bfme 1-2. While not really neccassary, its a nice thing to have.

3. Massed Battles - Nothing wrong with this, infact, i like doing massed battles every now and then. Sure, microing is a key part of SC strategy. But overall, SC is about mass mass mass. And massing requires no strategy. Just mass hydralisks and make sure they dont get hit by what ever special ability the Protoss and Terrans have.
In Company of Heroes, main infantry squads are rather expensive, leading to more micro to keep your soldiers alive. Micro like putting units under cover, telling them to go into buildings/trenches etc.

5 Squads - Squads/Battalions seem to be in a large amount of modern rts'. I have nothing against single units, but Squads seem easier to macromanage and more realistic.
However, with squads i think theres a limit to how much you can micro manage, just because you're controlling 5 or so people at once, instead of individual units.

I also hope in SC they solve the problem with only being able to select 12 units at once.

So anyways, SC2 will be a decent game, i think, but not the best. Cause there will be better games in the future

Yes i love Company of Heroes.

 

[Gilles]

If you want those things Ghost, play CoH. I'm glad SC2 isn't going to be more like other RTS games. Squads are overrated, and single unit provides more skill.

 

[The World Is Flat]

I agree with Gilles, anyway in SCII each soldier is extremly powerful in comparison to what ours are like. (Ever look at the pic of the marine holding the gun the thing is huge!)
One marine would like beat an entire company of our men. and we also don't want to turn SCII into DOW Soulstorm 2 that would be awful.

 

[PurplePoot]

1.Cover - There doesnt seem to be any form of cover that imparts defensive bonuses. take Company of Heroes for example, walls and such block direct shots (from tanks/AT guns), while offering excellent cover for infantry against other infantry

Distracts players from the key elements of the game and overcomplicates things.

2. 2+ Levels of Pathing - Once again, im not absolutely positive, but SC doesnt seem to have 2 or more levels of pathing (going under bridges while units go over them). This was an annoying problem for me in Wc3, and I dont think they fixed in SC. The only RTS that I've seen with this is Bfme 1-2. While not really neccassary, its a nice thing to have.

Unnecessary and don't really add anything.

3. Massed Battles - Nothing wrong with this, infact, i like doing massed battles every now and then. Sure, microing is a key part of SC strategy. But overall, SC is about mass mass mass. And massing requires no strategy. Just mass hydralisks and make sure they dont get hit by what ever special ability the Protoss and Terrans have.
In Company of Heroes, main infantry squads are rather expensive, leading to more micro to keep your soldiers alive. Micro like putting units under cover, telling them to go into buildings/trenches etc.

Never watched any progamer matches of SC?

5 Squads - Squads/Battalions seem to be in a large amount of modern rts'. I have nothing against single units, but Squads seem easier to macromanage and more realistic.
However, with squads i think theres a limit to how much you can micro manage, just because you're controlling 5 or so people at once, instead of individual units.

StarCraft involves space marines blasting giant bug-like aliens, so screw realism. Squads are kind of lame and kill micromanagement without adding to macromanagement.

I also hope in SC they solve the problem with only being able to select 12 units at once.

This was announced in May of 07... Where have you been?

At the core it's the same game. Doesn't mean that's a bad thing, I just would personally have liked to see some core changes.

I don't see it as a sequel if a large part of the core is changed. Even WarCraft III pushed it, and annoyed a lot of people. I think it's good that Blizzard keeps working on their classic RTS style as well as experimenting with new things.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

Couldn't agree more Poot.

If you want cover, make Supply Depots.

When you have a bridge that units can go under, you can't see the units. Granted it could lead to some interesting level design, but it isn't really necessary.

Saying Starcraft doesn't have strategy is like saying Chess takes no strategy. There are players who play more macro oriented and there are players that play more micro oriented. Have you ever seen Reaver drops? Protoss building Pylons to prevent Vultures from accessing an expansion. Corsairs + Dark Templar to kill all the Overlords and rape expansions.

Zerg are probably the only race without high quantities of available strategies. They can 3 hatch muta rush, standard tech to lurkers, or a mass drop in the enemy base while attacking 2 other expansions at once (basically just be attacking everywhere at once).

But it's even more than that, because when you scout a Protoss base, knowing how many pylons they have made at what minute can let you know their strategy. That's why proxy building or cheese works so well. Hiding technology while trying to discover the enemies. You could say that's in all RTS's, but not in most of those Squad based games you talked about.

DoW1 was fun huge battles with no microing. DoW2 is all about microing and microing squads blows. "Well doesn't that mean they should add squads into Starcraft 2 because it's huge fun massed battles?" NO! Can you block off choke points with a squad of Zealots so the enemy can't scout you, NO. Can you micro a squad of marines and medics around behind a mineral patch for *cover* so you can shoot the enemy expansion, NO! Do you think Zerg would travel in squads? or Protoss? CoD is trying to be realistic. Starcraft is trying to be fun. Not saying realism is a bad thing, but it is when it takes away from what makes Starcraft great.

Using the argument that most *modern* RTS's use something is idiotic. As far as I'm concerned. Total Annihilation (not Kingdoms) beats every other RTS ever except Starcraft (well and Warcraft 3 if you include mods).

 

[PurplePoot]

TA was awesome, and definitely my #2 RTS (not counting SCII, which I can't call yet). Both of them took what was "required in an RTS" and threw it out the window.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

Couldn't get enough explosions. I still play TA to this day. Unfortunately I never bought Battle Tactics, but I did get CC.

 

[Ghost765]

yet, the marine is also one of the weakest units in the game. even if he looks tight in the art, hes just a plain ole grunt with 40 hp and 5 crummy attack.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

yet, the marine is also one of the weakest units in the game. even if he looks tight in the art, hes just a plain ole grunt with 40 hp and 5 crummy attack.

Tell that to the Koreans that constantly rape Zerg with rine spam. Stim Packs gives them more DPS than a Dragoon which costs 150% more minerals and 50 Gas.

Also it's 6 *great* attack. Get it right.

 

[LordDz]

Actually, with the new shield upgrade they would have 55 hp right?
But don't compare COH and SC2, they're two different games. Same genre, but still different.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

ya now they start with 45 HP and get upgraded to 55.

 

[The World Is Flat]

Better than I thought that will be nice.
The marauder looks useful too.
Can't belive that they diched the goliath, he was one of the best terrain units.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

I suppose, but the Viking is very cool.

 

[PurplePoot]

Better than I thought that will be nice.
The marauder looks useful too.
Can't belive that they diched the goliath, he was one of the best terrain units.

"Can't believe that they ditched the X, it was one of the best Y units."

Now we have Starcraft3d.

 

[Tyranid]

Can't belive that they diched the goliath, he was one of the best terrain units.

No they didn't! They just made it bigger and now call it the Thor.

 

[Ghost765]

except, it cant attack air, and it doesnt have guy strapped in the front.

 

[The World Is Flat]

Wait, I thought the turned the Thor into an anit-air unit? anyway the Thor is more like a seige tank with some extra hydraulics and some new guns, not a goliath. but i do look forward to the Thor nonetheless; It will be a pleasant expirience blowing everything up.

 

[LordDz]

Better than I thought that will be nice.
The marauder looks useful too.
Can't belive that they diched the goliath, he was one of the best terrain units.

Actually, in PCGamer sweden, they stated that in singleplayer all the old units would be in, so that when you completed a mission you could get a kind of unit (be it firebat, goliath or marauders), so that your SP army would look a lot different than your MP army.

 

[Tyranid]

except, it cant attack air, and it doesnt have guy strapped in the front.

WRRROOOOONG! The Thor has long lost it's Bombardment skill. The Thor IS MEANT to be a anti-air unit in the current build. So it's essentially an overgrown Goliath.