Could the WC3 Alliance bring down the army of Mordor?

[Nightmare]

This is a thread discussing if the Alliance of WC3 before they were eradicated by the scourge (meaning it's only Humans, Elves, and Dwarves in the Alliance) could destroy Sauron and the forces of Mordor, and for Debate's sake, there is no food-limit on the Alliance.

And the Blood Mage is involved yes

Offer your opinions and the reason why

I personally think the Alliance would win

While there is no doubt that the orcs would vastly outnumber the Alliance, the Alliance has more magical power for Polymorph, Slow, heal etc. Along with techology far more advanced than Mordor, Example:The Steam Tank is a primitive tank that is in fact a bit of WW1 Era Technology, The Mortar Teams missles could fire from far range and cause massive damage to the Orcs, plus the Riflemen's rifles are muskets from the 1800s otherwise known as Civil-War Technology, which leads me to believe that due to more advanced fighting for the Alliance that this would give them a massive advantage over Mordor and could possibly take Mordor down.

Feel free to Debate

 

[JarrardKO]

I think it's pretty obvious the alliance would win.

Human/Night Elf vs. Orc, which is clearly 2v1 - unfair.

What is orc gonna do? Mass towers and Bats?

While the Human's mass towers and Steam Engines to go in and demolish the Orc's base while the Night Elf's are massing expos with a panda?

The Orc's have no chance against mass Steam Engines and mass towers. Human and Night Elf are broken races, but if the Orc harasses with Blade Master and uses Stun Wards and heal wards with a nice balanced army, there's a small chance of victory.

 

[Nightmare]

I think it's pretty obvious the alliance would win.

Human/Night Elf vs. Orc, which is clearly 2v1 - unfair.

What is orc gonna do? Mass towers and Bats?

While the Human's mass towers and Steam Engines to go in and demolish the Orc's base while the Night Elf's are massing expos with a panda?

The Orc's have no chance against mass Steam Engines and mass towers. Human and Night Elf are broken races, but if the Orc harasses with Blade Master and uses Stun Wards and heal wards with a nice balanced army, there's a small chance of victory.

You didn't read did you?

it's not the orcs from WC3 it's the Orcs of Mordor

plus, the Night Elves aren't part of the Alliance yet

It's the old WC3 Alliance vs. Sauron's Orcs

 

[JarrardKO]

Well err.. If it's the Mordor Orc's then they'd get completely obliterated, unless you're talking about the mordor race from the battle for middle-earth game then I'd say Mordor wins.

 

[VGsatomi]

Warcraft and LotR are nearly the same worlds if you ask me. Human, Dwarves & elves versus Orcs, goblins and ogres. And just like In LOTR, much of the allaince problems was due to internal bickering among the different members which their enemies in turn exploited.

Well, considering the horde is not unlike the army of mordor, it would really be contestable. I mean, azeroth was razed to the ground by the horde during the first war, but then the alliance turned around and annihilated the horde in the second war, including the orc homeworld its self, but then were nearly wiped out by the scourge in the third war. Now the allaince seemes to be hanging on by threads in WoW (you see a LOT of Alliance ruins), with their only well established areas being Stormwind and Ironforge (dunno if you want to include the night elves just yet).

In short: The allaince has definetly shown that they are no immune to being slaughtered by armies of mongruls. The Alliance doesnt have a "gandalf" while its "aragorn" turned to the dark side and became the lich king. They've kicked but as many times as they gotten their butts kicked by the horde army, so I say it would be a contastable fight if it were mordor.
-VGsatomi

 

[Rui]

I think the winner would be Mordor. The Alliance is broken anyway. Veggie already said much of what I had to say.

 

[Matt540 sheep god!]

*Holds tounge so not to turn this forum into an arguement*

Like VG said, id have to say that the LOTR and WC universes are very similar. However, several differences remain. Actually, the orcs werent really that evil at all: if you payed attention to the first warcrafts, they were under control of the burning legion. After thrall broke up their control, the orcs actually joined with humans and returned to the shamanic religion they once had. Very few remained to heed the call of the burning legion after the destruction of archimonte (The burning blade). With Vg's permission, ill give you the wikipedia link so you can read more about it...

But anyway, Id say mordor would win. Strength in numbers, and the ringwraths to assist.

 

[Nightmare]

Ringwraiths

True they do have the Ringwraiths, but since they would be flying on the Fellbeast, they would not last long, the Ringwraiths are undead, and it would only take a few Holy Light spells to kill them, the Ringwraiths are very strong, but they're not invincible.

There is strength in numbers, but skill beats numbers, and due to about the fact there are many heroes for the Alliance, they are very skilled. As for proof that skill beats numbers, watch the LOTR movies, you will see that quite often, the fellowship get vastly outnumbered and usually comes out ok (except for Boromir :lol: ) Helm's Deep is a good example of this as well, Gandalf only arrived with what would be guessed as around 3000 soldiers, and due to the fact they had heroes, they were able to hold off the Uruk-Hai as long as they did, until Gandalf arrived.

Also, the only thing that in my opinion, could royally screw the Alliance, would be Sauron, but even he would eventually die (but not before giving the Alliance heavy casulties).

 

[Rui]

*Holds tounge so not to turn this forum into an arguement*

Like VG said, id have to say that the LOTR and WC universes are very similar. However, several differences remain. Actually, the orcs werent really that evil at all: if you payed attention to the first warcrafts, they were under control of the burning legion. After thrall broke up their control, the orcs actually joined with humans and returned to the shamanic religion they once had. Very few remained to heed the call of the burning legion after the destruction of archimonte (The burning blade). With Vg's permission, ill give you the wikipedia link so you can read more about it...

But anyway, Id say mordor would win. Strength in numbers, and the ringwraths to assist.

If you know any Warcraft III site with maaany information then tell me about it too. And anyway, if the site is related to wc3, you are allowed to post the link.

 

[Matt540 sheep god!]

If you know any Warcraft III site with maaany information then tell me about it too. And anyway, if the site is related to wc3, you are allowed to post the link.

Its more of an info site, but there is a section dedicated to wc3 in it...and all of the warcraft universe for that matter. The warcraft universe part is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraft_Universe

There are many links afterwards where you can get into more detail of warcraft races, heros, and such. Most of the time they are at the bottom or in the article, so look there! If you need more info not listed in any warcraft link, type the name of the person in and you can get more info. Sometimes, if it needs to be more specific (Like orcs, humans, undead) then you should type (warcraft) right afterwards in the engine.

Also you can try:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Main_Page

This gives info DIRECTLY on world of warcraft. I find it alot more detailed and in depth for multible things (Like slection, races) to look it up on wikipedia, though wowwiki gives info directly on a subject and in great detail for a single subject.

Note: If you need to change it to a different language, there is a language select right below the search engine. And, Uther at wikipedia refers to the King Arthur Uther, not the Arthas Uther. I meant to put this for its detailed info on all aspects almost of wc3, so please dont go to off-topic with it...

Edit: As for the debate, you did say the riflemen had civil war technology right? Guns back then are very hard to reload, bows were about 10 times more reliable. Rocket would snipe down ringwraths, true, but they can only target air units and buildings if im correct I may be an orc player but as I recall those are its only targets. Arthas yes did betray the humans and is serving the lich knig, leaving very few importaint heros, killed Uther and Murdan Bronze hammer, so they are out of the picture. If Orcs from wc3 joined in, the demolishers would blast down the wall before even the riflemen had the orcs in thier range. Overall, mordor seems to have plenty of advantages as well as alliance, but I still think mordor would best them mostly from homefiled advantage sniping them before they even got close (like that one old guy) and Gandalf surrounded them afterwards, owning them to easily. Perhaps humans would have an advantage like that, but the surrounded partr is doubtful it would happen.

 

[Nightmare]

That is a good point, they were surrounded, true but in a way, how van we be sure it would be all one big battle, true while Mordor has a homefield advantage if it was all on one big open field, but I would think the Alliance would try to spread the Orcs to make things easier.

Most of the Paladins were killed by Arthas, but if I'm correct there are Paladins in WoW, maybe they would fight against Mordor.

on an off topic note: The old guy sniper, are you referring to "The End" In Metal Gear Solid 3?

 

[Matt540 sheep god!]

I meant that guy who accidently fired his bow I recall during Helms deep before the signal to fire was given.

 

[Nightmare]

I meant that guy who accidently fired his bow I recall during Helms deep before the signal to fire was given.

oh

 

[BlackArmsShadow]

You forgot Saurons rings you know... Sauron would send a fake ambassador bearing the rings, the ambassador would give the rings to the leaders of the alliances, and BAM! Ring Wraiths ahoy! (If the alliance didn't know about the rings)

 

[Bob27]

The alliance may have steam tanks but do they have Mumakil? No. Some Mumakil almost killed 7000 Rohirrim in the movie. Also if the Alliance is the humans, dwarves and elves wouldn't it fairer to make it Mordor, Isengard and Goblins?Also remember that Mordor will have catapults, so I think that Mordor would win because of their numbers and all the artilary, Mumakil and Trolls they would have.

 

[Mecheon]

The Alliance have magic, something the humans in LotR didn't have

So sure the armies of Mordor have their big elephants. The only thing is, the Blood Mages will summon a freaking firebird while burning them from underneath

Mmmm, roast elephant

 

[BlackArmsShadow]

Ah... you may be right... but Sauron has the rings as I said before! He could take over the Alliance's strongest spellcasters and turn them against the Alliance with a ring.

 

[Mecheon]

Ah, but the Alliance haven't been much for negotiating with armies with orcs

I mean, Thrall tried to make peace with the Alliance before Warcraft 3. That didn't work out too well

So they wouldn't particularly go and get these rings and become evil

 

[BlackArmsShadow]

Mecheon, Sauron is pretty crafty, and he could desguise an orc as a human with his magic. Nuff' Said.

 

[Rui]

...he could desguise as what he wanted before being pwnd by Huan (I think it was that time). But I don't remember him having magic to desguise Orcs as Humans....

 

[Nightmare]

Mecheon, Sauron is pretty crafty, and he could desguise an orc as a human with his magic. Nuff' Said.

Yeah but don't you think the Alliance would wonder: "How the hell did he get the ring from Sauron when he's wearing it all the time!"

 

[BlackArmsShadow]

Hey, Nightmare, Sauron made multiple rings right? So I bet he would make more for the alliance.

 

[Mecheon]

The Alliance aren't dumbasses

"Hmm, this random human asking us to put on this ring which he says will do stuff, despite the fact I've never seen him before and he stinks, along with having some severe volcabularly issues. I think I'll just say he's a defecter and kill him on the spot. Oh, look at that! He was actually an orc! Lets chuck that ring into the canals and wait for people to fish it out"

And thus the item in WoW known as the One Ring came into existance

 

[VGsatomi]

The horde army and the army of mordor are also similar in that both were manipulated by a powerful and (mostly) unseen and highly corruptive force. Sauron and Mannoroth(sp?) of the burning legion. The orcs were free of their bloodlust upon the burning legion's defeat. It was convenient that the entire mordor army was destroyed upon Saurons death (at least in the movie....havent read the books), so who was to say how they would have been in the aftermath.
-VGsatomi

 

[BlackArmsShadow]

Mecheon, I beleive you're right about that. Screw the ring shit, I think the Alliance would beat the crap out of the Mordor Orcs. Unless Sauron called some help from the undead of Warcraft...

 

[Nightmare]

The Alliance aren't dumbasses

"Hmm, this random human asking us to put on this ring which he says will do stuff, despite the fact I've never seen him before and he stinks, along with having some severe volcabularly issues. I think I'll just say he's a defecter and kill him on the spot. Oh, look at that! He was actually an orc! Lets chuck that ring into the canals and wait for people to fish it out"

And thus the item in WoW known as the One Ring came into existance

Is there really and item called The One Ring in WoW? or are you joking? because I've never played WoW before

 

[Mecheon]

There's an item called the One Ring

It gives +1 to all stats and is allegedly "Not as good as the Two Ring"

 

[DemonBane]

i think mordor would win...but that ring thing is STUPID
sauron created the rings that made humans wraiths at the height of his power... that has been nearly destroyed and he certenly couldent make more... or even disguise an orc as a human...

mordor would win simply cause the wraiths cant be destoyed (no living man can smite me-lord of the nazgul) they would walk in kill the heros the orcs would then swarm the humans (who are weaker then grunts, who are pretty much orcs from lotr) and the steads of said naz would destoy watever fort they had :twisted:

 

[SeaGull1723]

I might as well give my full perspective.

Alliance have:
-Knights in armor
-Dwarves with explosives
-Machines to blow crap
-Mages
-Bird riders
-The Light =P

Mordor have:
-Mindless armies of orcs and trolls
-Men allied with Sauron (that includes Mumaks)
-Wouldn't say siege engines, but ah wells
-Ringwraiths
-Sauron with his One Ring
-The ability to corrupt humans (like Denethor and the Seeing Stones.

Looking at a perspective, Alliance would most likely win with explosives and magic. Freak, the mages would do it alone.

I'll debate on the ring. First, Mecheon probably never realized why they would take the ring. It's the fact that the lords wanted more power (which is why Sauron gave the rings of power as gifts). And there is enough evidence to prove the human society was corrupt with the Alliance (example the corrupt nobles who worked with the Defias Brotherhood in WoW). So that's why Sauron may have an edge if he corrupts the higher caste.

Now if Saurons army was more of Morgoths, we'd all know explosives and magic aren't comparable to balrogs, dragons, and werewolves.

 

[vladhslavh]

you guys think that the white lady of Lórien is dumb? well if only a dumb person could acquired a ring from sauron, so you all think she is dumb.
listen, sauron's corruption methods are quite strong, You guys may not know, but saruman was a great mage that fought at gandalf side, at the same time the battle of the five armies has ocurried (The hobbit - J.R.R. Tolkien). it was they that turned the witch-king down for some time, saruman (as you all may know) was much more stronger than gandalf when the Dark Lord corrupted him.
he fall for the same reason the blood elves are goin fall if this battle rages...
the reason is hunger for power and magic.
IMO the blood elves will all be corrupted before they cast his first spell against sauron.
it leaves the alliance with the dwarfs, mans and gnomes (that was a part of the alliance in warcraft 3, "flying machines").
now i ask, could the gnomes, dwarfs and mans, defeat the orcs of souron and the magic-hungry blood elfs?

waiting for reply

sry for my poor english, its second language.