Cinematic NPC model

[Nasrudin]

Started working on this some time ago, was fun for a bit but now it's starting to feel like just a huge loss of time. I tried to contact a few people privately but feedback recieved so far was pretty much zero, so now I'm posting it openly.

Comments and most importantly suggestions are appreciated. Note that on animation with "lumber" tag, he's supposed to hold a broom or pitchfork. Also Death, Dissipate and March (wich actually is "run") are not finalised, don't consider them too much.

 

[PROXY]

So... what's the problem with it?

Anyway, these animations are just stunning!
The emotions are coming out perfectly
This would be theimba RPG model.

 

[Deolrin]

Many animations are not named properly and will not play in-game, for example 'March'. I suggest 'Walk' and 'Walk Fast'. Those actually work with buffs that boost your speed\slow you down.
March looks kind of weird, but you said yourself it's not finished.
He does not raise high enough in Dissipate.
Some animations seem to be missing.
Otherwise, amazing model! I suggest you to rename all those 'stand victory' animations to 'Stand\Morph\Spell + Alternate + [RANDOM TAG]' as well as 'Spell [RANDOM TAG]' depending on the animation.

 

[D a w n]

amazing animations

 

[Nasrudin]

So... what's the problem with it?

Nothing... or everything, depends on how you look at it. It took me already some insane amount of time, and I didn't realise the community is so inactive nowadays. I'm concerned that not many will use it, especially since I can't think of an user-friendly way to set up the animations.

March looks kind of weird, but you said yourself it's not finished.

I'm not going to touch it anytime soon, but how would you improve it? Also, how does the walk->walk fast thing work, I can't remember a single blizzard model that changes animation at faster speed?

I suggest you to rename all those 'stand victory' animations to 'Stand\Morph\Spell + Alternate + [RANDOM TAG]' as well as 'Spell [RANDOM TAG]' depending on the animation.

Uhm, the final version is supposed to have 5 different walk animations (walk, not run), at least six body stances (unless I'm going to add attack animations for weapons, in that case it will have close to 10 different stances)... how am I supposed to name all of them, when the supported tags are only 'alternate' 'defend' 'lumber' 'gold'?

 

[Deolrin]

There's A LOT more tags than that.
I can't give you an exact list, but ask around. There's at the very least 20 or 30 different tags, all of which work, and not to mention you can have combinations like 'Gold Lumber' or 'Defend Flesh' or 'Alternate Defend Gold Flesh Lumber'. Questions about tags were asked and answered already, just search around the forums.

 

[Pharaoh_]

Amazing, but it still lacks some quality (texture-wise and poly-wise). For these animations, I'd definitely want to see a better model.

E-X-C-E-L-L-E-N-T.

 

[Nasrudin]

There's A LOT more tags than that.
I can't give you an exact list, but ask around. There's at the very least 20 or 30 different tags, all of which work

*Nod-nod*

 

[Deolrin]

Flesh, Bone, Gold, Lumber, Alternate, Work, Defend, Channel, Spin.
Any combination of these will work.
So you could have animations called "Stand Flesh Bone Gold Lumber Alternate Work Defend Channel". Just remember that the order of the tags doesn't matter.

 

[A.R.]

The amount of character that shines through in those animations is huge :O

The feet are pretty lacklustre, though; it wouldn't hurt to throw in a few extra polygons here and there.

And if by any chance you were interested in a slightly more appealing texture than the peasant, I might be able to help out

 

[Nasrudin]

It's kind of hard to balance detail while staying in the limits of Wc3 style. Sure, one could easily make a model of twice or thrice this quality, but then? Put it beside a standard unit and it would look horrible, or make the other units look horrible. Any additional resource, skin, model or whatever has to fit with the rest of the game to some extent, else it defy its own purpose.

Thanks for your offer A.R. but I don't really feel the need to make this model more detailed. Though I for sure ain't going to forbid anyone to reskin or remodel this lil guy if/once it ever gets completed. Touche about the feet though, they are lackuster even for wc3 standards, I will change that.


Though for now, I'm putting the whole thing on hold. Interest turned out to be pretty low and I'm stretching my time too much already to work on it.
I also do need help actually, and that's for testing the model ingame. My knowledge of the world World Editor is limited to import and assign models, and I do not have the time to terrain and learn how to trigger just for that.
If there's any mapper with some spare time who could make a little test map for me, it'd be really appreciated.


Posting the latest version of the model below, for any eventuality. Should I lose any interest on it, someone else might pick it up, and if not, half model is still better than no model, innit?

*waves*

 

[Deolrin]

Well, it won't work, since you're using nonexistent tags.

 

[Nasrudin]

There is no point using alternate tags for anything but combat stances, given the way warcraft handles animations. There is simply no better way. Emotes will have to be played via triggers, wich is why I need the help of someone familiar with them.

 

[Deolrin]

Triggers can't play non-existing tags either. :/

 

[Nasrudin]

Funny that you told me to "do some research" about something you obviously don't know the answer for either, and can't even be bothered to read the thread I have linked.
Oh well. :/

 

[Thyrael]

Triggers can't play non-existing tags either. :/

Thats right when you are using SetUnitAnimation(unit u, string animation). That function only works with the wc3 included animation tags. And the game itself can't play custom animation tags as well i.e. attack or walk.

BUT as nasrudin mentioned indirectly, you can always use SetUnitAnimationByIndex(unit u, integer index). This allows also custom animation tags.

 

[Nasrudin]

Here I go again. I had actually planned to have this thing finished by August or so... heh.

This is a major update since the last version posted, but all of it is actually old. Haven't done anything in months. The only recent change is that I'm trying to rework the walk animation. It's not exactly a pleasure to watch (maybe the shoulder movement is too exaggerated? I don't know), but seems decent in game and I can't certainly do anything better at the moment.

What I'm wondering is if it's good enough by the standard of this community or not.

 

[Deolrin]

It's definitely good enough for the community!
Walk looks great, it's Walk Fast that needs work, in my opinion. I'd like to see more animations, though; Especially ones for different weapons. You don't need to make all the animations for every weapon; Cinematic effects and such can be done without weapons\with weapons sheathed, but a set of Attack, Spell, Stand Ready and Death animations for various types of weapons would be neat.
Also, all of those Stand Victory animations; And no "To be, or not to be?" animation?

Oh, and finally. None of these animations would work, remember that. You will need to use a bunch of smart tags for them to work. Although, you could certainly try and see if simply playing the current animations as a trigger will work. I don't think it will though.

 

[Nasrudin]

Yes, the run animation is pretty bad. I'll remake it as soon as possible; many others need some fix too (just look at the uppercut... HIPS ATTACK HO!) but until now I kept adding new animations rather than correct the old ones.

Animations can be played very easily via custom scripts, sure all that typing is a little annoying for a gui user, but then again gui users would have to type all animation tags anyway.

I've arranged a small version of my test map, the text should be self explanatory.

 

[JesusHipster]

This is great. Like wrap and.... count of animations, yet they have normal quality.

 

[N.Knight]

add some animations for weapons and this will be an epic RPG model

 

[Nasrudin]

After much struggling over the last two days, this fella now proudly sports augmented vision; but I'm not sure if I should keep it this way, the mesh will be much harder to modify if needed, and since the eyelids are closed by default I'll have to tweak almost 80 animations (eyes are open in the stand animation only, for now).

Now honestly, does it look better at all?

 

[Deolrin]

I do like the new eyes; He shouldn't shift them around so much, though. Looking great! I hope you keep them. ^^

 

[Nasrudin]

Yeah, thanks Deolrin, I hope I can keep it that way too... there are a few things I'm uncertain about.


-Testing in the WE revealed weird shading under certain conditions: areas that reflect light when in theory shouldn't even be reached by it. It gives the impression eyes are glowing, and it's creepy - then again, I've seen similar issues even in AAA games such as Mass Effect or The Witcher... it's because models cannot cast shadows on themselves.
Ironically, the old face didn't have this problem, simply because it was too flat.

-I have the impression there's something wrong about the eyes. Maybe they are too big, or the irises too small, or not dark enough. The look seems vacant or sleepy from certain point of views. In a way, the previous versions looked more sharp.

-There's a point after wich too much detail can be bad, the model should still fit (or at least not clash) with the standard wc3 units... and most of them don't even have irises.


By the way, the stand animation is (was, it's fixed in the current version) only a test, the eyes were spinning that much just to show there were no clipping issues with eyelids. I'm slowly remaking a dozen of facial animations for now, it will take a while.

 

[chilla_killa]

Those are one of the best animations I've ever seen and some of them made me laugh
Very good job!

 

[2-P]

Wow, those animations are absolutely stunning Nas! Can't wait to see this finished.

Is it possible to give the iris team color? An easy way to change the eye color would be awesome.

 

[Nasrudin]

Hey 2-P! How are you?

Applying team color to irises is a brilliant idea actually, should be very possible with a new geoset and custom texture.
Before that, though, I should really decide wich version is better. Each has its pros and cons and I just can't make my mind up on it. Some advice would be really appreciated.

 

[Radagast]

This looks Amazing... Great work.

 

[Deolrin]

Hey 2-P! How are you?

Applying team color to irises is a brilliant idea actually, should be very possible with a new geoset and custom texture.
Before that, though, I should really decide wich version is better. Each has its pros and cons and I just can't make my mind up on it. Some advice would be really appreciated.

The right one looks better in general, but the left one looks better in portraits and such. I suggest you keep the non-detailed eyes for most animations, and add special 'portrait' animations, or a special portrait model, with the detailed eyes.

 

[Nasrudin]

The new run animation is done, I think. Still haven't tested in game, but it doesn't seem too bad.

I've decided to keep the new eyes, for now. Too much time and effort went into them. If necessary, downgrading to the flat version is faster than the other way around.

 

[Jolly_jumper]

whats the easiest way of checking out animations? on both character models and spells...

 

[Nasrudin]

whats the easiest way of checking out animations? on both character models and spells...

Model viewers and the World Editor preview window. Note that model viewers aren't always accurate, so in case of spells you'd probably better off using the WE.

 

[Fingolfin]

DonDustin, are you sure about that? I am pretty sure it is possible to play almost any animation name through triggers.. i might be wrong though.

Anyhow, i hope you're not forgetting that "first", "second", "third", etc. are all accepted as animation tags. You could also technically use the attachment tags "small" and "large", i have not tried them as unit tags, but if they work for attachments, they should work for units (same goes for the "upgrade" tag for buildings). Also, you have ofcourse "work" and "hit" the latter being a tag that does not appear to be used in the game as far as i can see (correct me if i am wrong).

Anyhow, thank you for sharing this, i found many of the animations to be quite inspiring!
There are still people who see the charm in wc3 that would use this.

 

[Deolrin]

DonDustin?
Are you referring to me? Because, the only post I saw DonDustin post in this thread is:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/1915201-post4.html

And if you are, then I'm not sure at all. I think Thyrael has the right answer:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/1922586-post16.html

 

[Fingolfin]

Yeah, sorry, mixed up names there.

Alright, well, it would not surprise me if we had theese kind of stupid limitations, but like mentioned, it still works to use Byindex, aswell as the extra tags i mentioned.

 

[Lord_T]

not sure how late I am, and I can't look at the model, but I'd refer to the TownHall and other such models regarding the animation tags. Upgrade [First,second,third,etc] is probably your best bet if you're using a ton of animations.

Cheers!

 

[2-P]

Hey 2-P! How are you?

Good! Inactive I guess, I drop by every now and then to troll the forums, that's about it haha.
What brings you back here? I sure was surprised when I saw this thread!

 

[Sin'dorei300]

Just....AMAZING!!!

 

[xXm0RpH3usXx]

nice progress, good to see you are still alive

are u still using 3rd party programs for modding?
i could see it being awesome with a few morph targets in max, so one could make his own variations...

 

[Nasrudin]

Good! Inactive I guess, I drop by every now and then to troll the forums, that's about it haha.
What brings you back here? I sure was surprised when I saw this thread!

Some months ago I found my very, very dusty Wc3 cds, stared at them for a long moment, and thought "hell... why not". So here I am.
After reinstalling I stumbled upon some nice cinematic series and I thought it would be fair to thank the authors with some... support I guess? Something new to play with.

nice progress, good to see you are still alive

are u still using 3rd party programs for modding?
i could see it being awesome with a few morph targets in max, so one could make his own variations...

Good to see you too Morpheus.
Still faithful to the old Oinker's tools, yep. It all started with that, might aswell finish with them. Honestly I am considering to buy 3ds more and more often lately, but I have no real interest in modeling and besides, I want to show everyone what can be done with the old freeware tools.

I've no idea what a morph target is by the way.

 

[Nasrudin]

A belated first anniversary bump, I guess...

 

[Sin'dorei300]

Heya, can i use it in my map?

 

[HappyTauren]

Woah, Nas, you've got really great at animating over the years Also, datass animation is awesome!